walmart tcw3 supertech

[steplift20]

walmart tcw3 supertech anyone but me use it it seems good never had a problem i want to know if my wellcraft buddys out there use
i respect your opinion
you did tell me what size prop to turn and you where right on the money

[cterrebonne]

wouldnt use it unless it is an emergency. the mfg stuff is a whole lot better. also they wouldnt make crap lube to put into their engines. they wont the powerhead to last due to reputation and primarily the cost to replace it if it blows during warranty. there are no oems that make oil for a private label that i know. if its cheap there is a reason.

[bradford]

I have a different take on the subject. *Outboard manufacturers are in the outboard business, not the oil business. *I used to run Penzoil tcw-3 until Skools told me that the supertech brand was the same stuff as penzoil. *I did my own investigating (using all official redneck experimentation protocols of course *;) )and bought a jug of each. *They are both the same dark blusih color, the same viscosity(I think they felt the same rubbing my fingers together). *And the jugs are the exact same except for color. *I run a 50:1 premix on a recently rebuilt 1990 Evinrude 225 and so far haven't had any problems. *Everybody and their brother will have a differnt opinion on this subject so I just thought I'd share mine. *If i was gonna spend extra money on oil I'd just be buying the penzoil brand stuff or if I HAD to buy a mfr brand oil I'd probably stick to the Mercury stuff. *Again, "Just my 2 cents". * :)

P.S. *The Wally World Supertech oil cost me $8.14 per gallon. *Look in both the automotive section and the marine section, sometimes the price is different for the same stuff. * 8)

P.S.S. For ya'll cheap skate do-it-yerselfers, Napa brand motor oil is manufactured by Valvoline. 8)

[cterrebonne]

i agree with you bradford that they arent in the oil business and that the penzoil and super tech are probably the same stuff. but im willing to bet that comparing them to the oem oils there is a difference.
prime example you run anything but xd 100 in a etec thats prgrammed for xd-100 in time, it will in time burn up. but all in all that is comparing apples to oranges. like bradford stated earlier, if it works and inexpensive then why not run it.

[bradford]

Also I have an older outboard with carbs. *If I just spent three times what my boat is worth on a new engine I'd run what the mfr told me to while it was under warranty. *Engines with efi and fancy oil injection systems I'm sure probably have different requirements. ;) :)

[cterrebonne]

Also I have an older outboard with carbs. *If I just spent three times what my boat is worth on a new engine I'd run what the mfr told me to while it was under warranty. *Engines with efi and fancy oil injection systems I'm sure probably have different requirements.

youre right carb engines are harder to kill since they run way richer than DI EFI engines, especially the omc's. more fuel and oil equals cooler exhaust temps and more lubrication. with the oil inj systems you are pretty much good untill you go to DI inj, then i would switch to low ash high detergency primarily to keep the plugs and injectors cleaner longer.

[Skools Out]

lol any way i run eith Penzoil or Wally World brand same chit. stay away from Merc oil unless you have a merc. and you need to run your johnson at 40 to 1 cause at wot the factory oil injection was 40 to 1 so if you run wot much you will be running lean on oil. a little more smoke is better than a new power head. better run 40 to 1 on them OMC products. if it's a later injection motor you should run what the manufacture says till warranty runs out then switch to penzoil or wally world then lol. i do run a full quart of marvels mystery oil in a tank of 40 gal. or a quart per 40 gal plus the premix. but in a high performance 2 stroke better off to run like Klotz oil. that's one of the best when it's racing oils even in meth mix. Klotz Syn. is high though be warned

[Stillrunning]

You know I think all of this oil stuff gets blown way out of wack and I'd bet the difference in most brands is color. Ok, spend $25 a gallon if it makes you feel good but I think it is no better than the $10 stuff its just in a different container. There are cheap people (like Me) and people who say nothing but the best who pay the higher prices. Take my Eagle GPS fishfinder its the same unit as the Lowrance (its made by Lowrance) but its called an Eagle and cost $200 less. If you send it in for warranty work (I just sent mine in) it goes to lowrance. Why have two different lables its the Cheap guy (thats me) and the guy who always wants to buy the best so they fill both markets with one product. Oh, and I've been using that cheap oil problem free for 10 years and my compression checks out very high for a ten year motor.

[nipper]

It's like gasoline. There are very few refiners in the United States, and all the gas and oil comes from the same ones. There might be an additive or two which is different in a different blend, but it ultimately is of the same basic quality.

[cterrebonne]

It's like gasoline. *There are very few refiners in the United States, and all the gas and oil comes from the same ones. *There might be an additive or two which is different in a different blend, but it ultimately is of the same basic quality. *

thats a stretch.

[cterrebonne]

you cant compare gps units to engine oil.

[nipper]

I was not trying to compare gps units to engine oil. I was comparing Walmart TCW3 to Mercury brand, Valvoline, etc.

[cterrebonne]

i see what you mean. i would agree with you that probably supertech and valvoline are the same.

[macojoe]

Hereis my take on it, If you have a new motor use whatthey tell you for warrantee purposes, if you have a old motor use what you want, its all TW3 , I have been using Wallfasrt & Pensoil for years, Last season I had some one give me a case of Exon and I have Used that.

[Skools Out]

thats a stretch.


hey Newbie don't ruffle our feathers oil is oil as said and YES I SAID YES walmart is Penzoil. if you want high dollar oil then find pay for the label but don't argue with all the gods here.

[cterrebonne]

hey Newbie don't ruffle our feathers oil is oil as said and YES I SAID YES walmart is Penzoil. if you want high dollar oil then find pay for the label but don't argue with all the gods here.

not ruffling feathers. i might have taken his comment differently than intended. i'll be quiet now :)

[THEFERMANATOR]

I personally have had great luck with the pennzoil synthetic blend as well. It leaves a nice film behind to protect the parts for the next start-up. I know that the old JOHNSON 2 -stroke oil would completely drain off of the inside's of an engine after it sat for say 2 weeks, whereas the PENNZOIL will leave a film. That film really helps when you start an engine up after it has sat for awhile. The newer oil's are probably all about the same, but I know some of the old ones weren't that good. I lucked out and bought MERCURY oil from SAM's ealier in the year for under $13 a gallon for my MERC. I figure it's made it 12 years on MERCURY oil, why not stay with it.

[Mac_Attack]

I wouldn't buy anything from Wally! Billy Mac ;D

[Skools Out]

good point Ferm i like to push the primer a few after pumping the primer bulb to oil / lube up the motor all over inside before i start to avoid a dry start.

[phester]

Ferm, the Pennzoil you 're referring to, is that the 25% synthetic- 75% real oil? I've got a '92 150 Jonny and have been using that since I've owned it. It's not big money....nor is it cheap...so far I like how it's working. I usually add a little into the gas tank as well. Yes, I have the VRO....and I have complete trust in the reliability of the VRO system

[THEFERMANATOR]

That be the stuff I use, but unlike you I have NO faith in the VRO on a JOHNNY-RUDE. I've seen too many fall with them hooked up. But I had to tear down my 140 once to replace a piston(broken cir-clip), the inside of the engine had a very nice oil film left on all of the internals. The one time I used GENUINE JOHNSON 2 stroke oil I lost 2 bearings in my 35HP JOHNSON. When I pulled it down there was no residual oil left, yet I know it had 50:1 run through it. I know that alot of shops call the PENNZOIL "piston scuff oil", but I haven't had any issues with it. I know over on SCREAMANDFLY they reccomend the PENNZOIL if you don't want to fork out the dough for ALLISON or KLOTZ.

[Skools Out]

no faith here on VRO but it's not the VRO that will kill your motor it's the voltage regulator / rectifier that will stop the tach from working which also runs your VRO so you are good as long as you have a tach but if the tach ever dies kill the motor asap you should be ok.

[phester]

no faith here on VRO but it's not the VRO that will kill your motor it's the voltage regulator / rectifier that will stop the tach from working which also runs your VRO so you are good as long as you have a tach but if the tach ever dies kill the motor asap you should be ok.
my tach has been down for the last season and a half....motor runs perfect.....what-up??

[THEFERMANATOR]

The tach signal is what tells the VRO to pump.

NO TACH, NO OIL!!!

[Skools Out]

um you better chek that out asap as long as it's just the tach it's self ifyou replace the tach and it is working then you are ok but if you replace the tach and still dead you better just go to premix. you can run the tach off your yellow / gray wire on the rectifier but you can not run the oil injection that way.

[phester]

it's just the tach that's on the fritz, pump itself is fine

[Skools Out]

easy to test just take a 12v test light and with out starting motor turn it over with the light hooked to the gray wire to the VRO pump or the gray to the tach it your test light pulse's then you are good to go.

[wpearch]

OK I owned an Auto parts store for 15 years sold it to Carquest in almost all cases privet label parts and oil are the same as the name brand sometimes the name brand has different grades of the same part then it hard to know which grade you are getting in the privet label as for warranty a product that meets the OEM specs can be used but is it worth the hassle if something goes wrong if the dealer tells you they won't warranty something because you used brand x check with brand x they may go to bat for you and get the dealer to back down hope this help confuse the issue for everone

[steplift20]

boy thanks guys now im really confused
i think i will just use it on my smaller moter
1984 50 hp mrecury
and use the pennzoil blend for my 150

[wpearch]

just go get new 4-strokes problem solved :D :D ;D ;D

[steplift20]

never, you would never see a fourstroke on my boat

[kamikaze]

Not to Ruffle any feathers, but VRO operate off of crank case pressure period.

The warning circuit uses tach inputs to verify sufficient oil is being pumped as required per engine RPM's. So if your tach circuit is shot it doesn't mean the VRO isn't functioning, it just means you won't know when it does until it's to late.


From http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/VRO.html

The VRO's electronic circuitry compares the RPM of the engine to the number of pressure pulses from the oil pump piston. As the oil flows into the fuel area, the pressure moves a small piston that actuates a steel pin in the alarm module. The pin's movement is detected electronically and "counted." If the engine revolutions exceed the preprogrammed oil pulse ratios, the warning horn is activated sounding a rapid on and off sequence.

I'm with Phester. VRO's rock! but they do need to be maintained like anything on a boat. Unfortunately they are expensive and they aren't very well understood which only adds to the topic raising its head from time to time.


Kamikaze

[steplift20]

i will tell you why oil 8dollars a gallon
and thats it
plugs, can change them in 3 minutes and no gapping
winterize done in 30 minuters done

[wpearch]

never, you would never see a fourstroke on my boat


I was just being a wise guy the 8000 to 10000 price tag is also kind of a hold back

[76GMC1500]

My limited experience with 2-stroke oils is in 2-stroke dirt bike engines, but it has been an interesting experience. *I generally run whatever "quality" oil is priced right or I can get my hands on. *This ranges from $6 a quart Yamalube 2-R to $16.95 a quart Bel-Ray HC-1. *With an average lifespan for a piston of around 20 hours, it's pretty easy to see any accelerated or reduced wear. *

My conclusion so far is that I have seen no difference in wear no matter what oil I run except when I blow a crankshaft seal and start sucking crankcase oil. *

What I have seen are differences in cleanliness of the engine. *A major part of 2-stroke motorcycle maintenance is cleaning the exhaust valves. *My particular bike is notorious for fouling exhaust valves. *After running some of the brands of synthetic oils, my exhaust valves come out cleaner than they go in. *Of course, outboards don't have any such thing but keeping the ring grooves clean is important to maintaining proper ring seal. *My observations so far have been that the synthetic blends do carbon up some in the ring grooves, on the piston crown, on the exhaust valves, and on the combustion chamber. *Redline synthetic does leave deposits on the piston crown, none in the combustion chamber, minimal in the ring grooves, and some on the exhaust valves. *Bel-Ray HC-1 leaves some in the combustion chamber, minimal on the crown, none on the exhaust valves, and minimal in the ring grooves. *Amsoil Dominator performs very similarly to Redline. *Amsoil Interceptor is the interesting one. *Everything in the cylinder is absolutely spotless after the pistons entire lifetime of 20 hours. *I think the last engine we pulled apart had one fleck of carbon under the spark plug. *It's also one of the cheaper oils at $10.95 a quart.

I've also noticed that if you overheat the crown, you'll get carbon build-up on that hot spot regardless of what oil you burn.

Basically, if you have a boroscope available, you should use it to determine what oil keeps your engine the cleanest and run that oil. *Don't worry about brand, they all seem to do fine at wear protection.

[cterrebonne]

I'm with Phester. *VRO's rock! but they do need to be maintained like anything on *a boat. *Unfortunately they are expensive and they aren't very well understood which only adds to the topic raising its head from time to time.
Kamikaze

they are close to 300 retail. they also make rebuild kits for the vro pumps for all three parts of it. also the vro2 pumps which all of the other v-6, v-4 pumps use superceed to that pump. and if anyone was curious if your fuel side goes out and you dont want to rebuild it. you can order a vro with out an oil side.

[cterrebonne]

i did not know dirt bikes had exhaust valves. that is pretty cool. like a detroit diesel

[76GMC1500]

Well, not really like a Detroit. *They usually work by covering a portion of the ports to vary the timing/area or by opening and closing sub-ports to change the resonance of the pipe to give a broader power band. *They open based on RPM. *That is why they foul up, they aren't always moving (which scrapes the carbon off) if the motor spends a large portion of its time above or below the rpm at which they open. *That valve protruding into the exhaust flow tends to collect a lot of carbon.

Oh yeah, I'm not suggesting you run motorcycle oil instead of an outboard oil, I was just explaining some of the differences you may see between brands.

[cterrebonne]

like the rave and power valves in yam and seadoo waverunners?

[76GMC1500]

Probably, I'm not particularly familiar with newer skis, but I doubt they're much different.

[cterrebonne]

Probably, I'm not particularly familiar with newer skis, but I doubt they're much different.

yeah whats cool is that the smaller etecs 115 and some other smaller ones. have electronic valves that controll the exhaust/water flow to help them on the low end. same principle but electronic

[steplift20]

hey hold on a secound what happened to the main topic walmart tcw3 lets get back on track here dirt bikes on a wellcraft site PLEASE your talking about valves and lifters hmm you guys are to smart for me i like to keep it simple plus im cheap well with the price of gas these days i have to save a buck here and there im just glad that geagre bush is the pres and hes doing something about these oil prices

[76GMC1500]

The point I was trying to make is that in an engine that is frequently torn down, I have not seen accelerated wear using really expensive full synthetics vs. cheap semis. I have seen a difference in cleanliness, though. I went from regular disassembly to remove carbon between overhauls to no regular disassembly and no need to clean carbon even during overhauls.

[jim19958]

the whole tcw-3 thing seems to have created a lot of confusion in oils, but the tcw rating refers to lubricity, (meaning how slick or the lubricating properties of the oil).
a lot of oils may pass the 3 rating, but if your going to compare walmart to oem oil you'd find they both pass tcw3 fine, but the detergent package along with several other additives contained in a good oil such as brp,yamaha & merc. are present where in cheap oils they are not.
76gmc1500's post is a perfect example, no wear because the lube is there, but carbon build up is greatly reduced with a good oil.
and true motor manufactures dont make oil, but brp has a set of specs that there oil is made to. i think citgo is still making it for brp, and its not the oil that makes oem oil so expensive as much as the additives,
theres an old saying "you get what you pay for" which is especially true with oil.
and yes im sure the profit margin with oem oils is a little higher than other brands but its still a much better quality oil in the long run.
as for synthetics there great in air cooled, hard working, or newer motors that run at higher temps.and especially the occasional overheat, as ther flash point is higher than reg oil. meaning the oil dosent burn off at higher temps. but remains to provide lubrication.

JIM

[steplift20]

why did they change the site the old one was better and easyier do you agree?

[jasoncooperpcola]

I have a 85 Johnson VRO but i have to premix the oil. We use the Johnson/Evinrude XD30 oil and it gives us no trouble and actually makes the eingine run better. The only thing i dont like about it is the price! Oh yeah wperch you need to watch the Evinrude E-Tec video. It'll change your mind on 4 strokes.

[cterrebonne]

Oh yeah wperch you need to watch the Evinrude E-Tec video. It'll change your mind on 4 strokes.


shoot me a pm wperch and i will send you a dvd in the mail on the infomercial.