Repower or backup????

[mmiklosz]

I have an '86 Step V with a '97 Johnson V6 225 and keep it on Lake Michigan. I have had several tows this year because of outboard breakdowns. I have replaced the fuel pump, starter. It seems to have more white smoke than other motors its age.

I want to do longer distance trips next year but question the reliability of the outboard in open water.

I am considering putting a backup outboard for greater piece of mind, or spending some dollars and getting a recent used Yamaha 175 or 200HP.

What do you guys think?

[Skools Out]

that's a looper motor they are usually built like a rock. are you running oil injection? I've got 3 Johnson 225 Loopers and all have run like iron dukes.

[fishmaster63]

hey 93, i know this is off topic but how much gas do you burn an hour? im looking at an 86 and i have an evinrude 225 to hang. my pop says it will burn 15 an hour easy... i say less. what do you say?
thanks.

[Skools Out]

his 97 will burn less than yours but the 86 was the change yr is yours a looper or cross-flow 86? late 86 was a small bore looper they burn a little less than the 88 up till 1995. due to smaller carbs and smaller bore. if it's a cross flow it will burn at least the 15 maybe more. the looper will burn 12 to 14 an hour.

[willy]

Skool so what is a 99 johnson v4 115 looper ??? also in keeping with this post, I would check compression on that head, if it is good i would have a good mechanic redo/update everything and add the back up motor. Bad compression I would go new motor, in the long run it will save you money. Unless you are like some of the guys on this site and can rebuild a motor in your sleep IMHO I just did this on my 1992 merc 150, it had issues that kept popping up, though it never stranded me it was touch and go a couple times, on the second trip back to the mechanic I told him if it is original replace it , hoses lines wiring electrical components pumps and if your testing says it is fine change it anyhow I'll keep it as a spare now i go out with a lot less worries

[mmiklosz]

Willy,
What did it cost to to the full redo to the motor?
Also, what is a "looper?"

[willy]

Well I've called my wife something similar, which did'nt go over well by the way :-/ but I think it has something to do with the flow in the heads but that is why I asked Skool because I have a 99 Johnson on the boat I am buying and he would know. The work was a 1g when everything including draining the fuel tank and flushing it was done.

[Skools Out]

a 115 is a cross flow motor. the loopers are all late 1985, 120 and 140's and late 86 200 and 225's Johnson/Evinrudes and from 88 up they were all big bore looper in the 120 130 140 200 and 225 hp J/E motors. all use the same pistons too the 120 130 and 140 are all same block just different reeds and carbs jets and in the 200 and 225 the carbs are the only difference. it's a looper charge type fuel system. has a flat piston and the cross flow has the piston with the high top on one side.

[Skools Out]

some of the newer 150 and 175's are a style of looper, I think they were 1996 or around there and newer were loopers in 150 and 175 but different blocks and pistons.

[willy]

Skool you mean to tell me the only diffrence between my 1999 v4 Johnson (cross flow) and a 140 is the reeds in the carbs ???

[Skools Out]

no a 115 is a cross flow and the 140 is a looper motor totally different motors. a 120 and 140 are just alike. a 90 hp is a cross flow and is the same as a 115 just bigger carbs and reed cages on a 90 make it a 115.

[willy]

so i can't come over your house with my boat and a couple of reed cages with a case of beer and walk away with a 140 huh :(

[mmiklosz]

Skools out,
My '87 Johnson has oil injection. How concerned should I be with white smoke?

[Skools Out]

don't worry about the white smoke but i'd take to oil injection off and run premix that is a bad yr for the injection i have an 87 225 Johnson. going to the coast but be back Sunday night.

and sorry can't turn a 115 to a 140 lol wish i could.

[steplift20]

trade it in and get a new motor let them worry about it if its not running right

[macojoe]

sounds like youmhave a head gasket gone, water or fuel leaking in giving you the white smoke.

Better to get it fixed and checked out then to drop a ton of cash on a new motor!!

Take it to be looked at before going to nuts!!

[reelapeelin]

Boater...listen to Skool on the business about disconnecting the oil injection and pre-mixing...Get an Accu-Mix ($3.99) or similar bottle, makes it real easy to pre-mix your oil/gas...the VROs on your motor have a long history of failing, which, of course will fry your motor...some have run them for years w/out problems, but you'd never see THIS fat-boy rely on one...had an '86 Evinrude 150 that I pre-mixed...VERY reliable, GOOD runnin' motor... ;) ;D...

[mmiklosz]

Thanks for the insight on disconnecting the oil injector. I will do that in the off season. On your Evinrude, how often did you change the plugs, fuel water separator, inline fuel filter?

[macojoe]

When I had my Johnson and my merc, I disconected the oil injection and just changed the plugs every spring after I burned off the fog oil.

With my 175 Yamaha I can't disconect the oil injection!! I did cause I had a over fill problem. But when I did I would foul out a set a plugs every third trip!!
But Yamaha works totaly different then the others, They inject the oil right into the intake as the others mix with the fuel just before they enter the carb.

Any how you will get it all stright!! It will take some time to work all the bugs out, but after that you will be one happy guy!!

Good luck

[reelapeelin]

Boater, the first set of plugs lasted 3 yrs...second set still in when we took the motor off...I reallybelieve pre-mixin' lengthened the plug life, plus I'd just had carbs rebuilt...that motor ran GREAT... ;D...

Only time messed w/seperator was b4 relocating fuel-tank vent to ABOVE rub-rail...

[Skools Out]

i suggest change the plugs like MJ every spring and keep the old set on the boat for a spare set for the one time you foul one in the ocean or lake. White smoke shouldn't hurt the motor how bad is it? or first check it and tell us what your compression is on all cylinders.

[mmiklosz]

I typically use the boat once a week. Smoke is heavy on start up, for about the first 5 seconds. After that, it's far less noticeable. I will get the compression when I pull the boat out in the next 2 or 3 weeks.

How did you know that you needed to have the carbs rebuilt? What was the indicator? How expensive was that?

Thanks!

[reelapeelin]

Boater, in my case it was when I first bought the boat...it would not run over 4000 rpms...and rough, too...compression was good and electronics checked out, so tech looked at carbs and found a real mess...on top of being gunky, some ''numb-nuts'' had drilled a HOLE thru the side of one of the carbs...bought a set of used carbs and had those rebuilt....long time ago, but think carbs were about $150 and rebuild was about same...ran GREAT... tech did a SUPER job... ;)...

Oh, and I remember him sayin' at the time. disconnecting the VRO was smartest thing to do... ;D...

[mmiklosz]

Thanks for the update. Mine runs well at higher rpms. I will watch for it though.

Any suggestions on disconnecting the VRO? Is that some thing I can do using the manual, or best left to a tech?

[Skools Out]

your's is a 97 225 J/E correct? I'll take pictures of mine this afternoon on the stand and show you where to remove hose and where to cap plus which wires to disconnect if your buzzer will allow you to remove the wiring.

[mmiklosz]

Outstanding!
Sounds like I can do that while its in the water. Yes it is a 1987 225 Johnson VRO.
Thanks for your efforts.

[Skools Out]

ok here are several different motors pumps i have, not sure which pump you have a new 4 wire replacement or the older 3 wire style.

This is the later style with 4 wires on my 92 Johnson 225
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a46/Skools_Out/Motors/VROPUMP-002.jpg

Here's a 1987 like yours with the oil line still hooked up on the stand.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a46/Skools_Out/Motors/VROPUMP-003.jpg

This is the plug you unplg to turn off the oil pump if your alarm will let you on some models the buzzer will go off if so just leave it hooked up and cap it off anyway.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a46/Skools_Out/Motors/VROPUMP-004.jpg

here's the oil line going into your oil pump seen here on my 1987 Johnson 225
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a46/Skools_Out/Motors/VROPUMP-005.jpg


Here's the oil line capped on the oil pump of a 3 wire pump on my 1990 Evinrude 140
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a46/Skools_Out/Motors/VROPUMP-006.jpg

Pointing to the fuel and oil line nipples see oil one is capped. must be done or it will suck some air and run lean. Can just cut short piece of hose and push a bolt in to it and run a tie wrap around it to stop air too.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a46/Skools_Out/Motors/VROPUMP-007.jpg

Then just take out the oil tank and the lines. Sell it on ebay for some other un expecting person to use lol.

[mmiklosz]

Thanks for taking the time to take the shots. Seems easy enough to do.

[willy]

Skools just want to say to you that was excellent, you should do a instructional video man. Just like having a mechanic in da house :D

[Skools Out]

well thanks there willy. Todd Da Tool Man Smith instead of Tim the Tool Man Taylor lol.

[shicks007]

You sure can't beat those instructions. I'm sure that took some time time Skools....you tha man.

[reelapeelin]

I vote Skools Out be granted ''GOD'' status for all the great help he's been to everyone on this board...can I get a ''H-ll Yeah'' on that?... ;D...

[Blue_Runner]

Skools I've seen the "cap" done both ways. My grandpappy used the old skool (pun intended) method of a piece of hose with the screw in the end - worked like a champeen!

[Skools Out]

lol Thanks Rap and yeah BR i've had and done both. That red boat i redid and sold had it capped with a bolt. Heck i've filled the hole in the pump with 100% clear silicone. That will work too. LOL