I/O or OB

[bcurling]

Once again I am intrigued by the dialog with the newbie wpreach, (Welcome onboard wpreach, this is a great forum) regarding the engine. My question is this;
Everything being equal, which is better I/O or OB? Is there some outstanding reason in performance, maintenace, longivity, fuel consumption, etc, that sets one type of engine above the other? I am trying to learn all I can about these boats and their engines. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[Skools Out]

outboard IMO but do a search for this and you will find this subject several times.

[macojoe]

Well my boat was a I/O when I bought it, and I made it a O/B so I have had both

The I/O is cheaper to replace and cheaper on gas, the parts can be easy or hard to find depending what year you have.
Most auto parts will fit, not that they are better then marine parts but they will get you by for awhile.

But IMO a car motor was never ment to be in a boat! everything gets rusted, you have lots of maintance all the time and they nickle & dime you to death!


Out boards cost more to replace, more on gas (not so much the case with new motors) and you need a good Marine repair guy if you have no idea.

But they will out last a I/O and you have alot less maintance o do! They will run pretty problem free if you take care of them for many years!!
And if you have to change the motor, it can be done in a afternoon!!

I switched to OB and I have never regreated it for 1 second!!

[wpearch]

The main reason I wanted an outboard is I can fish early and late in the season and you don't have to worry about frezzing up a motor and to have more fishing room in the back of the boat

[randlemanboater]

Get you a 4 stroke outboard for the best of both worlds. ;)

[bcurling]

Thanks Skools, Macojoe, Vpearch and Randlemanboater. Great advice. I checked out Skools suggestion and he's right. There is a ton of information out there. Randlemanboater, too late to purchase an OB right now maybe later. This was a question that I probably should have asked before now. I just purchased my first V20 (1983). It was completely restored with new custom tank (60 gal.), new fabrics, hardware, through transom drains, and a complete rebuilt outdrive and Mercuriser 170hp with 5 hours. The thing I kept looking at was the height of the transom. The tall transom gives a sense of security. And since I have experience with my current Volvo-SP1 I/O on a 19' Infinity, I figured I would stick with what I knew. I was hoping I made the right choice. If not I'll talk to Skools abouth doing a conversion and hanging a bracket on her and mount a Johnson OB. Again, thanks for everyone's advice and suggestions.

[macojoe]

One last thing on a Bracket motor, They suck to back up!! The wash from the prop gets pushed against the transom making for a slow backing with very little control.

But I would still do it in a heart Beat!!

[willy]

If you either put a flush kit set up or you trailer your boat an I/O can last very long and maintanence will be be reduced. One friend of mine is doing just that and has put many a long season on his with little expense. His fuel burn numbers are great and the perfromance is exellent.
IMHO the best combo for a boat over all is a inboard with a straight shaft like the Shamrocks. The ride of the boat is vastly improved and you don't have to deal with the outdrive maintancence etc. There is a fellow down at Morgan Marina that has a older Shamrock with this set up on a keel drive and inboard engine, last time I saw him he had over 2G's hour wise on his motor and no problems.

[C YENSEN]

Well I have an 84' with a 470 Mercruiser (probably the same motor you just bought bcurling). I love the I/O for several reasons. First is my motor is original and never really gave me any trouble other than a timing issue. It does not use any gas. and since it is a "car" motor, I can do all the work to it myself.

If you want to fish late in the winter all you have to do is open the valve on the heat exchanger and drain the raw water into the bilge. That way there is no worry about freezing. If your motor has antifreeze in her.

I love my I/O. When she goes I already have my eye on another local V with the same motor. *;)

[wpearch]

Bill do you have the closed cooling system or not if it closed you dont have to worry as much about the salt water just flush the outdrive ans heat ex. with a muff

[macojoe]

with a muff :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

[wpearch]

Up here in the north conuntry we call them a muff they look like ear muffs

[bcurling]

Yes, it is a closed system. That was one thing that I relly looked for. I have a closed system on my Volvo 140 and it is absolutley worth ever dime. There was a drain plug in the exchanger (V 20) to get rid of the raw water. I removed this plug and installed a peacock valve off of an airplane engine. Works great.

[cfelton]

Hey Bcurling, Ive gotta 77 v20 cutty with a 170 (470) I/O I just rebuilt. Ive been extremely satisified with it so far. With the cost of gas climbing I wouldnt think of replacing it with anything else. Hang on to what you have , they are very easy to fix. If ya have any trouble we all will try ta help!

[bcurling]

Thanks guys for the impute and thoughts. Now, were are those fish?

[Sean]

Thanks guys for the impute and thoughts. *Now, were are those fish?
8) ;)

[RobsTV]

The V20 is the 6th boat I've owned.
First 4 had outboards, all were old, and all had various issues at times.

Always wanted an I/O, since it appeared that it was close to a "car" motor, and thought that means easier to work on.

5th boat was a 23' Formula with a GM305 V8, OMC I/O.

A year later that pile was sold, and swore to never ever will own an I/O again. Even though I am a retired certified automobile master mechanic, the I/O is actually much harder to service than an outboard. Plus parts prices are unreal. For the price of an intermidiate housing, outdrive, lower unit, (motor NOT included), you can get an entire outboard ready to run and just bolt it on.

6th boat is the V20 with outboard, and life is great again.

[Monterey10]

I agree with the above. The OB is superior in all ways. A recent test of identical Trophy fishing boats, one with an I/O, the other with a O/B, showed the O/B was superior in all ways, hole shot, fuel efficiency, top speed etc etc.

That said, in California, the 2008 and newer O/Bs will need to be smogged every two years or the engine switches to "trouble mode". The local dealers are licking their chops at having required service. My local Merc dealer averages $500 to $600 to service an engine. I can see why, he had to buy a $30,000 computer and cables to plug into the newer engines. Once the engine is plugged in, the computer diagnoses any problems. Then, the computer sends the report to the State, verifying smog is completed.

I like the concept, but for a small time operator, I'll stick with my funky old I/Os. I can change bellows, grease ujoints, time a points distributor, rebuild the carb, drain the block and manifolds in the spring. None of this is hard to do, none of this cost $600.

[garagenc]

The main reason I wanted an outboard is I can fish early and late in the season and you don't have to worry about frezzing up a motor and to have more fishing room in the back of the boat

I'm looking into hooking up a system like you would buy from a auto parts store to flush your radiator. I have a I/O and that's my only thing but I like mine.

[cterrebonne]

I agree with the above. The OB is superior in all ways. A recent test of identical Trophy fishing boats, one with an I/O, the other with a O/B, showed the O/B was superior in all ways, hole shot, fuel efficiency, top speed etc etc.

That said, in California, the 2008 and newer O/Bs will need to be smogged every two years or the engine switches to "trouble mode". The local dealers are licking their chops at having required service. My local Merc dealer averages $500 to $600 to service an engine. I can see why, he had to buy a $30,000 computer and cables to plug into the newer engines. Once the engine is plugged in, the computer diagnoses any problems. Then, the computer sends the report to the State, verifying smog is completed.

I like the concept, but for a small time operator, I'll stick with my funky old I/Os. I can change bellows, grease ujoints, time a points distributor, rebuild the carb, drain the block and manifolds in the spring. None of this is hard to do, none of this cost $600.

a 30,000 computer? $500-$600 what is the labor rate? dude someone is getting the shaft and thats a fact.i know things are expensive and ridiculous in cali but unless that computer is govt issued and its a standard toughbook with merc software its not 30,000. that is very interesting.

[THEFERMANATOR]

The MERCURY scanners are on Ebay every once in a while for under $1K.

[cterrebonne]

ddt's? i dont know if they work with the newer canbus systems. we switched from ddt to laptop in 2002-03

[bigshrimpin]

Maybe Spares can shed some light on the 30K computer. I think that price is in fact what it cost dealers to become certified to service verado motors. I don't take my boat to any dealers . . . but I've bought a ton of blown motors from them and from folks on craigslist. Occasionally I'll get receipts with the motors. I have one receipt for $2200 for parts and labor to replace an trim and tilt unit on a Mariner Magnum 150. I have another for $995 for replacing a pair of switch boxes and a stator on a Mercury XR6. It's crazy what people can charge for that work, but the overhead is what kills the dealer . . . especially if they're within a few miles of the ocean in CA.

[cterrebonne]

[QUOTE=bigshrimpin;110703] I have another for $995 for replacing a pair of switch boxes and a stator on a Mercury XR6. QUOTE]

that sounds about right though. switch boxes are close to 200 a piece and a stator is around 400-500. i need to check the flat rate books over here but its gonna atleast be an hour for both.

[THEFERMANATOR]

I believe switch box's can be had for $120 IIRC. And I've seen NEW MERCURY 40 amp stators for under $300.

[cterrebonne]

http://www.mercurypartsexpress.com/PartsExpress/ProductSelection/Accessories/getProduct.asp?sku=398%2D9610A19&SPHomeqty=&store=ServiceParts&statusMsg=&CID=174150187075225059275

398- 9610A19 Ignition Stator Assembly $437.52

http://www.mercurypartsexpress.com/PartsExpress/ProductSelection/Accessories/getProduct.asp?CID=174150187075225059275&sku=332%2D7778A12&store=ServiceParts&statusMsg=&SPHomeqty=

332- 7778A12 Switch Box Assy. $235.79

thats why its higher at the dealership

[wpearch]

pay the rent
pay the help
pay the taxes
pay the insurance
pay for the parts
and feed his family
and every one wants it for free
if you have the knowledge and the tools fix it yourself
if not if you want to play you have to pay

[spareparts]

to answer the question about the scan tools, you can get a Rinda tool for about $500, it will cover all the MEFI's(merc, Volvo, Crusader,etc), the Volvo EGC, Delco distributors, later Merc EFI, MERC 555(will not do Opti). The DDT will cover all the same but it will also do Optimax. The new Merc CDS is a laptop driven program that is around $1200 for the software and harnes up to $7000 for the complete toughbook,DMT2000 multimeter,harness package. You can get one, but unless its plugged into Mercnet(dealer only) once a month, the system will crash and have to be rebooted from the original disc and set up thru Mercnet again(pretty sneaky from Merc). Supposably its doen this way to make sure any problem that involves omissions will be verified that its corrected. Truth be known, its just another move from "Big Brother Brunswick" to controll the dealers and the market.

As far as chosing between I/O and O/B. That might take awhile to explain. I make my living working on I/B and I/o's mainly(I do work on OBs, but not as much). If i were to spec out the I/O as I would want it, i would be as reliable and user freindly as any OB, the only problem is that no one would put that kind of package in an I/O boat for general sale. My choice of I/O package for use around here (coastal SC), would be the Volvo Ocean Series engine package, with the composit drive/transom shield. The engine comes with closed cooling but it doesn't include the manifolds or risers(merc doesn't either).The nutra-salt system would help, but I would like the Crusader cooling system. it includes manifolds and risers(yes risers also). Or either use a Volvo OSI diesel package that is completely closed cooled. So after spending much $$$$$$$$, you would have a decent saltwater package. If you're running in fresh water, its not that big of a deal, you can piece together a Merc or Volvo pakage with a 5.7 and it will last. If you have an older boat, upgrading to Alpha1 gen 2, or Volvo SX/DPX would be a good start. I/O do require more service, and if you're worried about freezing, the closed cooling helps that situation(some things will still need to be drained). That being said, my V has OB power, and thats what I'm going to keep on it, If I had teh money to buy a new OB, I would proabably put a Opti on it( just buy the extended waranty), second choice would be the 175 Zuke. I'm not going to be buying a new motor anytime soon, so I'm looking for either a good solid 2.5 merc, or 3.0 Merc to have ready as stand by for the 2.4 200 I have now. there are a lot of things to consider, mainly if you're working on it yourself or paying someone to do it. Newer stuff doesn't give you much choice. This is an argurement that could go on forever, but for what I do, knowing I have equal access for repairing and parts, and where I use the boat, I prefer the OB.

[cterrebonne]

merc seems to like to get the dealers to buy that 7000k pacakge. for as long as i used the tough book on verados i never felt i needed a tough book. they are really cool but they a sure expensive. touch screen is nice though

[spareparts]

the tough book is nice on the DTS, its not required now, but it will be. If you try to claim a pin point diagnostic, it had better been done on the laptop, they will check it when its hooked up to Merc Net

[Hammerhead]

What MJ wrote is prolly the best critique yer gonna get but, here goes my take on the I/O.

When it came time to replace the motor ( 165 hp ) I considered going with a bracket and OB. Would have cost close to 10K. I went with a crate 165 for 2K. I flush it every time it hits the water. No problems. The mileage is good and the boat is well balanced.
took awhile to work the bug out of owning a 30+ year boat but, I have no regrets.