cop question...

[Kajun]

does a cop need probable cause to pull over someone? or can he pull people over at just cause he wants too?

[tsubaki]

Depends on what state.
With (or without) certain vehicle requirements, local, state or highway (D.O.T) patrol officers have the authority to pull you over without "probable" cause. Safety inspections, tires almost bald, etc, which will lead to something ticket writeable.

[dragn3]

yea, it depends on the state but if the law is probable cause and the officer wants to pull you over then probable cause is easy as he "saw" you swerving from side to side or whatever he wants to say to pull you over. in other words if he wants or decides to pull you over then your *** is as good as pulled over. just my .02 ;D

[tsubaki]

About 1980, Georgia repealled the safety inspection decals required for all vehicles which were required to get your tag. This meant the officials could now set up road blocks and do insurance and safety checks at any given time and pull over suspect vehicles for most anything. Now with the federal mandate seatbelt laws, it leaves it wide open.
As always smile, cooperate and pay the piddly fine if incurred.

[msbhammer]

Police need P.C. to pull you over. They can not simply pull you over and then look for violations. Not unless it's a check point.

Not sure if this has to do with the seatbely law, but when observed by a police officer that you are not wearing a seatbelt, it's a violation that was observed ib the officers presence, just like as if you were speeding, a broken tail light, ect, ect. Its all moving violations.

[macojoe]

In MA they can not pull you over for seat belt, they need a different reason.

And know I never wear mine!!

[tsubaki]

In GA they can. I got my first ticket in 25 years about 3 weeks ago. It took two weeks to process it so I could pay it. $15 which was not a moving violation, just failure to were safety belt.

[tsubaki]

And please keep in mind I'm not anti "cop".
Actually I wish policemen were given back the ability to think on their own and make judgement calls on a perticular situation given the cirsumstance.
These days are way behind us now and the real criminals get away with a higher percentage of offences than in the past all in the name protecting our rights (and theirs).

[twistedparot]

i was going through georgia back in 96 and apparently they had some sort of radar thingy with a camera on the i20. two weeks later i get a letter with a speeding tcket and a pic of my car. i sent them a picture of a hundred dollar bill.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Did they send you a picture of a prison cell?

[tsubaki]

Those camera's really get up my butt, however come to find out the ticket is NOT a moving violation.
I know there is some talk the camera's are unconstitutional because you can't face your accuser. Yet they are still on the poles and people are paying the tickets. :P

[randlemanboater]

does a cop need probable cause to pull over someone? or can he pull people over at just cause he wants too?


The standard in the US for making a stop, (vehicle or otherwise) is that you must have "reasonable suspicion" (RS) that a person has or may have committed a crime. *This rule came from the US Supreme Court in "Terry v Ohio".


An example of "RS" would be that a cop see's a person behind a building downtown at 3 am. *He can detain the person to see what he is doing because it is "reasonable" to believe a person behind a building at 3 am may be getting ready to or may have committed a crime (breaking and entering for example). *Now if the cop stops the person and he finds that he is carrying a bag full of loot and has a prybar, now there is "probable cause" to arrest the person.

If the person had IDed himself as the cleaning person for the business who was on a smoke break, and it proved to be so, then the "RS" goes away and the person may no longer be detained.

To make a charge or to arrest, the officer must have "probable cause".

However, some cops who are charged with enforceing certain laws such as Federal Commercial Motor Vehicle laws, or boating laws, are allowed to stop people at random. There will be specific statutes spelling out exactly what type of vehicles they can stop without RS.

Hope this helps.

[tsubaki]

I was reasonabily stopped at 10:30PM in Richmond Hill because it was "suspicious" that I had a refrigerator and dolly in the back of my pickup (helping my cousin move). I was so "suspicious" that I was given a breathalyser test, when I asked after the fact what was going on the polite officer said "I thought it was odd having a refrigerator in the truck at night" and about the breathalyser "well most people moving furniture will refresh themselves, especially with friends".
Probable cause my *** (my a$$). They exercise as many ways around the laws as what we do and I don't hold it against them.

[tsubaki]

Oh I can go on and on.
The same cousin I helped move was ticketed for speeding, (this was once he wasen't). The Officer in court explained to the judge after being questioned how he asertained said defendant was speeding "I heard him". The judge said excuse me? The officer repeated "he sounded as if he was going fast". The judge looked at my cousin and said "dismissed and sargent (forgot his name) I need to speak to you in private".

[tsubaki]

I especially love (not just like but love) the ability of the military police. They can disassemble your vehicle at the drop of a hat searching for contraban. I hunt and fish on a military reservation and if you ain't got your ducks in a row you shouldn't be there.
If more rights were given (back) to the regular police force in the name of public safety I would have no problem with it.

[tsubaki]

And let's get into the subject of "weaveing". This is the act of moving left and right with your car inside of the yellow and white lines. In Georgia there is no such probable cause for pulling people over without crossing over either of these lines in the road. Yet it has been the common practice to stop people for said weaveing. At a party I had the opportunity to hear a retired policeman tell of a rookie he chastised for pulling a driver for it. The reason for the correction was, if it went to court it could possibly thrown out because there is no law against "weaveing" inside the lines.

[tsubaki]

Allright, I'm beating a dead horse.
The main distinction is "can" or "cannot" or "may" or "maynot".
He "maynot" be able to pull you over without "probable cause", but he "can".

[parishht]

Ok, isn't an unmarked police car entrapment?

I like this one,
about 15 years ago, I was on vacation with my family
in Ohio. I was driving past Wright Pat Air Force base
and doing about 75 in a 65, keeping with traffic.
I look up in the air, and there is a small plane painted camo. I think must be a pilot on maneuvers.
5 miles down the road, there is a state trooper
standing in my lane pointing at me to pull over.

All I can say to him is camo plane, he says you got it.
Luckily they took credit cards at that time.

[msbhammer]

I just got off duty this morning, so I'm pleading the 5th here. ;D

[tsubaki]

Don't go to South Carolina if you don"t like unmarked cars.
They have the best of everything to stop you with even if it was on the Autobahn, tinted windows,dual exhaust,some sleepers (cars that don't look fast but are faster than fast).
I love traveling thru SC and recognising these cars.

[Hammerhead]

A buddy'o'mine in NC a few years ago passed a trooper at a high rate of speed on his motorcycle and then bolted rather than pull over. He tho't he'd gotten clean away. Nope. At about 4am he was arrested at home for his hooliganism. Dash cams are very effective.

[randlemanboater]

tsubaki,

I am sorry that you had a bad experience with the cops.

I would guess that these things happened in a small town.

Unfortunately there are some cops who stretch their authority, often because of bordom.

Feel confident that the vast majority of the cops in this country stick to the constitution while enforcing the laws of our states and nation.

[randlemanboater]

Ok, isn't an unmarked police car entrapment?



Its more like "trapment".

I wear their tails out with my unmarked Tahoe. And when I stop a violator, there is no doubt in my mind or theirs that they were doing wrong. (I wrote 4 for speeding over 90 mph in a 65 yesterday).

Now if I got in the car with you and egged you on until you started speeding, and then I wrote you a ticket, that would be entrapment.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r222/randlemanboater/101_0063.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r222/randlemanboater/101_0062.jpg

[randlemanboater]

And let's get into the subject of "weaveing". This is the act of moving left and right with your car inside of the yellow and white lines. In Georgia there is no such probable cause for pulling people over without crossing over either of these lines in the road. Yet it has been the common practice to stop people for said weaveing. At a party I had the opportunity to hear a retired policeman tell of a rookie he chastised for pulling a driver for it. The reason for the correction was, if it went to court it could possibly thrown out because there is no law against "weaveing" inside the lines.

You are correct that weaving within your lane is not illegal, but weaving in your lane is one of the things that an impaired driver will do.

I would not stop you for weaving in your lane, but if you were weaving, and swung wide on a turn, and were traveling below the speed limit, and took several seconds longer than normal to leave a stop light, then based on my TRAINING and 19 years of EXPERIENCE, I would stop you because it is REASONABLE for me to believe that you could be impaired.


I do not have PROBABLE CAUSE to arrest at that point, but REASONABLE SUSPICION to stop.

I am not out there to "MESS" with people, I am out there to try to prevent the daily tragedies that occur on our roads every day.

In the last month in my city I have been called out to 4 crashes involving death, 3 were the result of combining alcohol and high speed. One was inattention, possible cellphone use.

[parishht]

"cellphone use"

It is a tradgedy that someone died,
but I can't resist,
Everyone should byuy the $1 handsfree cellphone kit:



http://www.ygoodman.com/humor/handsfree.jpg

[reelapeelin]

I ain't sayin' NOTHIN' ::) ...

[tsubaki]

Randle, you have covered everything perfectly as best as I could describe it. My "bad experiences" are (almost)nothing of the sort. Every reason that I have been stopped (except one) was justifiable, even if it wasen't legal. *Like I implied earlier if the police were allowed to do as they did in the 1950's (in my mind) there would be far less overall problems. The use of a cell phone driving really gets up my butt, except right now it's only illegal on federal property. I don't want more laws, ideally we need more authority given back to the police.
Driving while useing a phone should fall under a vague description like wreckless driving or something.
Oh the only definate unjustified reason I was ever ticketed was "speeding in a school zone". It was 30 minutes after the posted time , no children were present, no lights flashing, I was 5 mph under the posted speed limit and the response from the nice officer was "well they are going to change it in the next few weeks". I went to court four times (the officer never showed) the judge finally threw it out.

[tsubaki]

Oh man I thought I was thru.
During my teenage years my father warned me about going to a neighboring city because the police were so tight.
Well I went there and took a date from there to the drive-in. Well while exiting the drive-in a nice couple of resident police pulled us over. Now I have my shirt half on, the girls blouse is still open and after being questioned as to if I had been drinking, smokeing dope or anything else they look in the car and both snicker. I'm a nervous wreck by now and the nice (sincerely) officer asks while handing my license to me "why are you so nervous ?" My only responce was "man ya'll scare me". They smiled some more and let us procede on our way.
No honestly I don't call these bad experiances.
Oh and the only dead giveaway on the unmarked vehicles is the tires and rims.

[tsubaki]

There is absolutely no way possible that I could even imagine being a police officer. Seriously and sincerely these guys keeping us safe get so little and give so much. Hell now I'm lost for words.

[randlemanboater]

Well it sure beats WORKING for a living. ;D

[tsubaki]

;D ;D