Hey Ferm, got a Jeep question

[spareparts]

My 96 2wd Cherokee is driving a little funny. I just had new tires put on it and they did an alignment( the old tires were so bad I couldn't tell if anythign was wrong). I give the tire shop the benefit of doubt that they did a proper alignment based on my past experiance with them. The probelm is the front end seems a little "loose"( is this normal for these cars?). It wants to dart and follow the grooves in the pavement. If I slam on brakes, it darts back and forth( either side). Under normal firm braking, it stays straight so I don't think its the brakes(just did them, new rotors, calipers, and pads). I jacked up the front end and put a pry bar on everything I could push against, the tie rod ends, drag link, and track bar seem OK, no signs of the ball joints or steering arm being worn. The car does have 140K miles on it. the *only thing I found was the controll arm bushings seem a little soft, I could move the arms around( no a lot of movement, but they would move) with the pry bar with out a lot of effort. Figured I'd start with putting new bushings in the controll arms, any recomendaton on bushings? Would pst or urathane be too harsh? Or do you have abetter idea?

[THEFERMANATOR]

On that era JEEP, sway bar bushings were a problem. But your describing a track bar problem. The first check I always do is to get a helper, have them sit in the JEEP and rock the wheels back and forth fairly quickly. Watch all of the front end components while doing this. Pay espescially close attention to the track bar where it attachs to the frame by the pitman arm, that joint is a known issue with all of the JEEPS that used a tie rod end style attatchment(CHRYSLER knew it was an issue and fixed it on the later GRAND CHEROKEE's). Also check the steering box for play, it doesn't take much to make these things wander. Then take and jack one side of the front axle up at a time to get about 2 inch's of air under the tire. Then take a pry bar and pry the tire upwards, and then pry by the ball joints outwards. This will show you ball joint movement.

Those bushings your talking about are a tru PITA to change. You can go with the ENERGY SUSPENSIONS ones, but they are still not easy to replace. They should have some movement in the though, and they rarely ever fail(I never replaced a set that needed to be changed). My 88 CHEROKEE I'm curerently driving still has the factory originals in it.

And as for your alignment shop, I hope they did ya right. But most of them have the green is good mentality(if the specs fall in the green, who cares). And the factory specs would cause problems to begin with. They put alot of toe in in the front ends to try and help them go straight. Alignment specs should be .05-.08 toe in, and as close to 0 as possible on camber. Caster is the highly overlooked item on these that causes MOST of the front end issues. The caster should be 6.5 with a cross caster of .5 or less. Caster is the main culprit in the death wobble in all JEEPS. Check your front end over and get back to me.

[Franco]

See if it has bad steering dampner, that a horizintaly moubted shock absorber attched to the drag link in your steering. I worked at a Jeep dealership for 11 yrs in service and we replaced a bunch of them.

[spareparts]

thanks for the input, I'll check it out this weekend. BTW on a straight axle, how do you set the caster?

[Franco]

I beleive it has a solid front axle and unequal length control arms and coil springs. If caster is equal from side to side dont worry, and it should never change unless it is bent or twisted.

[randlemanboater2]

Aw man......I was hoping to see the pink Jeep.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Steering dampers are not really all that neccesary on the XJ's at stock height, I've run many of em without em without issue. If you were having issues with the wheel vibrating under braking, or jerking over bumps I would say damper. With 140K on the clock, I'm betting steering box or track bar. The wonderful GM SAGINAW box is infamous at 125K+ miles to get loose and sloppy. You can adjust them slightly, but most of the time not enough. Also check your intermediate shaft for slop(the one that connects the box and column). The XJ's normally didn't give issue here, but the YJ's did.

Here's a few pics of the caster adjustments. You use these to get the caster close, but cross-caster can only be set with ball-joints. Pardon the grease and dirt, I run the SH!T out of my JEEP ;D.
Here's the lower control arm attatching point vehicle side.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t271/THEFERMANATOR/PINKY3.jpg
Backside where the 2 bolts that hold the shims in place.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t271/THEFERMANATOR/PINKY4.jpg
And an underside shot of the shims.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t271/THEFERMANATOR/PINKY2.jpg

And to satisfy RB, here's PINKY.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t271/THEFERMANATOR/PINKY1.jpg

[twistedparot]

if i tighten you up gettin into 3, ur gonna be way to tight gettin off of 4. we'll just take a pound outta the right rear to help ya roll thrue the center and get a good run off. if that dont work we'll pull a spring rubber under the next caution. whats ur temp reading? maybe we can put a little more tape on the nose when the sun goes down...

[Skools_Dual]

lol great one Twist

samething on my gas Tahoe and on both my Jeeps at the 120k mile range all were the steering damper, the jeeps were a GC 1998 and a C 1992

[spareparts]

twisted, you forgot "wedge"

[Monkey Butler]

Whoa, I didn't even realize that we had Jeep experts here. This is too cool.

Anyhow, my 15YO has been saving his pennies and wants to buy a jeep Cherokee or GC in anticipation of getting his permit. He has about $600 which I will match. Lots of 93-98's for sale with various ills and milage in the $1200-1500 range. Any recommendations of what to look for and what to look out for? Ultimately he wants to put big wheels and tires on it but for now I'd like to find something that needs a few repairs so that we can find a deal and do some father-son work while he waits to get his permit.

Would you even consider a '96 in good shape that seems to run okay but has 232K?

[THEFERMANATOR]

twisted, you forgot "wedge"
Don't need no stinkin wedge. What we got here is a real special matched set of tires, and they WILL HOLD on the outside of turn 4 ;D.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Would you even consider a '96 in good shape that seems to run okay but has 232K?
Depends on a few variables, mostly being previous owner. One of the best runnin JEEPS I ever seen had 400K+ on the clock, and NEVER had an engine repair done. I personally like my JEEPS, espescially PINKY ;D. I don't know of any other vehicle that could take what I've put mine threw, and keep on goin. Mine spends enough time on the floor board, I might as well be covering a hole with the go pedal. There's much potential for the 4.0L's as well. My old style came stock with 150HP in 88, I'm pushing up around 185 with a $0 investment. Just a few secret tweeks. Or you can go hog wild and build ya a 4.9L KING KONG HP/TQ monster that will snap just about everything in the drivetrain.

[Monkey Butler]

Okay Mr. Ferm, we are hopefully going shopping over the next few weekends. Mind if I run some potential rides by ya?

What about 4 cylinders? Too wimpy even for first cars? I want to look at a 98 with a bad viscous coupler but my son is telling me this means AWD vs. 4WD which he says is less desirable.

Comments?

[Monkey Butler]

Another one, guy left a message on my vmx... says a front seat bolt "pulled thru", easy fix. How are the floors on these things? For that matter are they frame on rail or unibody. As you can tell we jst started looking.

[THEFERMANATOR]

They are UNIBODY construction on the newer wagons. The COMANCHE pickup was a UNICAB with integrated frame rails. If you think there is problems with the unibody, RUN!!! It is not a pretty site(or safe one) when the UNIBODY breaks apart, I've got a 97 that broke the UNIBODY under the passenger seat and rear frame rail at the hitch. The floors for the most part were OK, but if anything was ever spilled in the floorboard it will get trapped between the carpet and pan causing rot(my 88 has a rotted out rear pan over the tank).

The 4 cylinders were OK, but you won't be setting any speed records. And if you might tow, go with the 6. Another thing to consider is in the CHEROKEE's the transmission. The 4 cylinder's will be mostly 5 speeds which were pretty reliable, but will not hold up to any bigger tire. And the 4 cylinder auto's are DOG'S!!! The 3 speed auto's were sorry too. The 6 cylinder auto's have the very robust TOYOTA tranny, and the manuals were pretty solid to(also a TOYOTA design up till 00).

The viscous coupler doesn't always meen AWD. My 88 has a FULL/PART time 4WD, and uses a viscous coupler. But you have the option of 2WD. In the GRANDS with the 249/247 T-case, they are a full time unit. But many times a viscous is said to be bad when it needs nothing more than some posi-trac lube added to the transfer case fluid. If you have any specific questions, I'm more than happy to answer em for ya.

[spareparts]

no that we are on the subject of floors rotting out, I'm trying to find teh water leak form rain that keeps getting the carpet wet on the pasenger side floorboard every time it rains. Looks like its coming out of the fan housing where it bolts up to the firewall, I've allready pulled the drain out andchecked it(blew air back thru it). Water keeps leaking into the floor. Any ideas?

[Franco]

Open the hood, there is a screen over the cowl/plenum for the heater & a/c, there could be a s h i t p o t of leaves and stuff in there blocking the drains, Clean out the drains and leaves and such and see if that helps

[Skools_Dual]

i took one of those apart recently that had 243K miles the timing chain was worn outwhich is a very common issue with the straight 6 and the rod and main bearings were shot i personally wouldn't buy one with that many miles unless you plan to put new bearings and a timing chain set in the motor.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Service life on any timing chain should be 150K miles. And some of em do get run hard, and wear out the bottom ends. I tore one apart with 182K on the clock, and it still had the factory break-in coating on the bearings. They don't take well to not haveing oil changes done religously. I personally like the 91-95 4.0's myself, but that's just me. The 87-90 4.0's seemed to hold up the best though, mostly due to the lower HP rating(plus the old style ones got better milage, I got 20-22 on my trip to TENNESSEE this year with my 88).

And for your water leak SPARE, check the seal on the water drain tube for the evap. There is a connected tube that runs the water down from the A/C condensation, but rain water can run back in em. And like FRANCO said, check your outside air intake.

[Skools_Dual]

the 96 has better pistons and lighter with teflon coatings

[THEFERMANATOR]

the 96 has better pistons and lighter with teflon coatings
I personally don't like the 96+ pistons. The ceramic coating was brought in to help with the piston slap plague of the 4.0's when cold, as well as the main girdle to make the blocks more rgid. I've seen twice the engine failures in 96+ as I did in 95-. I just threw out a bucket of 96+ pistons, several of which were cracked. The late pistons are very brittle, I'll take the older pistons anyday. And I've never personally seen a 95- with a rod threw the block, I've seen more than a few 96+ with rods out the block. Which doesn't make sense because they lowered the HP in 96.

Just my $.02

[twistedparot]

if some one here could tell me how to put a diesel in my 73 commando withou spending a lot of money or doing any work, that would be cool.

[Skools_Dual]

find a 1993 GM 6.5 Turbo Diesel it will fit. the 93's weren't computer controlled.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Yep, what skools said. Find ya a good 6.5, or even a 6.2(if your not concerned with having power). Those full size JEEPS have all the room one could want to fit a diesel in.

And for anybody that says a JEEP aint tough, look what it took for these guys to try and kill a JEEP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGFASxRPM10

[twistedparot]

is a commando a full size jeep? mine is smaller than a cherokee of the same year. prob smaller than ur cherokee. and i dont wanna do nose wheelies every time i hit the brakes. lookin for something a little lighter. she is a little nose heavy with the 304 now.

[THEFERMANATOR]

The older JEEPS(those before 84, but after the war) were considered basically full-size. They offered them for a few years with a V-8 in the CJ's. The 6.5 weighs a little less than a big block chevy, but not much less. It would still be a little heavier than what you have now. There really isn't much out there lighter than your 304 in a diesel that will give you much giddyup. The 5 cylinder VOLVO is a pretty popular conversion engine, but not very powerful.

[Skools_Dual]

just change the front springs to some GM big block springs you'll be good.

[twistedparot]

if you had any idea what it cost me to have these springs made, you wouldnt say that. after 6 months of searching, ur breaking my heart.

and ur right ferm, the only good candidate i have found is the mercedes turbo diesel. i dont need a lot of power. i got low low if i get in a jam. prob keep the 304. it pulls good, ok on gas, and numbers matchiong.

and skoolz, just so we,re clear. put the grinder down, and stay the he!l awqay from my shackles!

[Skools_Dual]

;D ;D let's tear down.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Put a couple spring rubbers in and a few turns of wedge, you'll be good to go.

[randlemanboater2]

And to satisfy RB, here's PINKY.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t271/THEFERMANATOR/PINKY1.jpg


AHHHHHHH, thanks FERM.