Bracket manufacturers

[CT_V-20]

Does anybody out there know of bracket manufacturers other than Armstrong and Gil? Any idea of cost (I have a full transom already so no glassing required)? Thanks.

[bigshrimpin]

Stainless Marine => Their bracket (30inch set back) is around $1600 w/ the swim platform . . . last time I checked.

[CT_V-20]

Thx Bigshrimpin. Considering putting the Sea Drive out to pasture :'(, we'll see how she fires up in the spring. Lower unit fluid was milky when I changed it for winterizing. No big deal on its own, but I wouldn't mind a 150 or 200. This way at least I'll have my ducks in a row if I need to take action.

[Seakindly]

30 INCH SETBACK ??

Doesn't anyone make a bracket for a V20 with less of a setback than that?

I love the idea of a full transom and a bracket, but I would not want my motor set back 30 inches for 2 reasons.

1) You change the trim of the boat quite a lot when you move that much weight and torque back 2.5 feet on a 20 foot boat.

2) The motor can submerge much more easily when it is setback 2.5 feet on a 20 foot boat. This is basic see-saw physics, and I don't believe the flotation in a bracket will prevent this in heavy seas.

If I were doing the full transom/bracket deal - I would look for the least setback available, and then hang a 30 inch shaft on it.

My v21 has about a 10 - 12 inch setback and a 25 inch shaft, and IMHO that is pushing the envelope.

[CT_V-20]

I'm not sure of the physics, but the Sea Drive on my boat now is nowheres near a 30" set back. It's more like 6-12" max. I don't think my marina would let me keep my slip with a 30" set back as my boat would way blow through 22' :o!

[macojoe]

Well I have done the deal!! I have a stainless bracket with full swim platform.
It is a 28" set back, When I installed the bracket I measured 25" up from the bottom of the boat, and mounted it.
I have installed a 1989 Yamaha 175hop at a weight of 380# and a 25" shaft.

If you don't get the 28" or better you will never be able to lift a V6 outboard fully out of the water!! And if you are sliped or moored that means some of the motor will be in the water at all times!

Not only does the boat out perform the I/O
I also have no problems with the motor going under!!~ even in 6 foot seas!

As far as the trim is concerned, I can trim it just fine and I belive better then the I/O!!

The only problem and I don't see it as a problem is it does not turn in as tight of a circle as it did when it was a I/O

Don't take my word for it, Ask CB, he has been in the boat a few times.
BS, has also saw the boat going thur the water first hand.

As far as the leanth, you are going to add, in my case 28" + at least 12" for the motor + the boat is already 20' 6" so I am at 23' 10" at ths point, so they would charge you for a 24 footer

[Seakindly]

MJ, that is a good point about needing enough setback to be able to tilt the motor. My motor tilts past the transom into the well. It's been awhile since I looked at a sea-drive ... I wonder how CT's motor tilts if it only has a 6-12 inch setback, since he has no well. When the day comes that I have to rebuild my transom (hopefully a long time from now), I guess I'll keep the well. By then 150 - 175 hp oughta come in 30 inch shafts, if the bracket craze is not just a fad.

MJ, when you say 6 foot waves - do you mean 6 feet from the trough to the crest??

A 6 foot wave is actually 12 feet from the trough to the crest.

[macojoe]

when I say 6 footers, that is the wall I am hitting!

I kind of have my hands full at the time to get the tape measure out!! ;D But I have never seen any water swamping the motor. And I hope I never do!!~ :o

And that is a good question?? How does he tilt his motor all the way??

[CT_V-20]

The Sea Drive is pretty unique. My motor tilts completely out of the water and the set back is still less than 12" (maybe I need to go down and measure to be sure). For sure though, the boat overall w/the motor down is 23'2" (and they still let me use a 22' slip). So figure about two feet for the length of the motor itself and that gets you to an 8" set back. Even if the motor is only 18" long (and I doubt even a lowly V4 is that short), that's still just a 14" set back. The Sea Drive came before positive flotation brackets so I don't think manufacturers could hang motors back as far as they can today. And there were V6 Sea Drives up to 235 hp. which would be awfully heavy 30" back without some help from additional flotation. Plus there is no swim platform integrated with the Sea Drive - I have a teak add on to the port side of the unit - so no need to put the motor too far back for that purpose either. If I have to go that far back with a new platform, I'm SOL with my current slip and I'd have to get on a pretty long wait list for the 22-28' category. Looks like no repower on my horizon unless there is a modern bracket with less set back.

[macojoe]

As far as I no stainless marine has set backs from 18" and they do come with out swim platforms!!
the floation is something like 310 pounds. Just not sure how this would let you lift the motor all the way out?? I don't think I have ever saw a seadrive up close, at least if I did I didn't no it. So I am not sure how they got it so the motor goes all the way up??

But if you can get a 18" to allow you to lift your motor out of the water anough?? that would cut down on you leanth!! 20.5 + 18" + 14" motor= still going to get you real close to 23'
I am going to have to measure my motor to see what it adds?? it is a 175 Yammy

[chumbucket]

Sea Drives don't pivot where a conventional outboard does (ie; at the base of the powerhead). They are mounted to a two piece bracket. One half is stationary and mounted to the transom. The other half that the motor is mounted to pivots off of the stationary half at a point that's right about at the top of the powerhead. That's how they were able to be mounted closer to the transom. If you put your hands together with the palms flat against each other, pivot your wrist of one hand away from the other keeping your finger tips together. ;)
I worked at the Boston Whaler factory years ago and they used many of those Sea Drives when they first became popular back in the early '80's. I'm quite familiar with them.

[CT_V-20]

What chumbucket said. I pulled out my OMC service manual this morning and chumbucket is spot on. The pivot point is way up on the top of the transom which enables the whole motor (and I have an "extra" long shaft) and a part of the bracket along with it to come up out of the water. Chumbucket, I've seen boats on Ebay where owners have put late model motors on Sea Drive brackets. I thought that wasn't possible, but seeing is believing. Have you seen anything similar?

[CT_V-20]

I just received the following email from Gil: "A single Gil bracket would cost $1075. They are available in white, off-white and black. You can order these directly from us at 800-486-0999. There is usually a 3-4 day lead time for shipping." Pretty efficient. Armstrong hasn't replied yet. I had also asked about certified installation shops in my area in the same email, but Gil did not respond to that.

[chumbucket]

CT, I actually helped someone do that conversion. Sea Drives are basically a Johnson/Evinrude Motor so it can be done. The down side? The mounting bracket along with tilt and trim units are obsolete through OMC. This doesn't mean there aren't parts to be had out there. The hardest parts to locate are the trim and tilt cylinders. The motor we converted, I ended up using a Merc trim cylinder that happened to be the same length and diameter. I just had to shave a bit off one of the rod ends to fit between the yoke. There are also a couple of companies selling Reman Sea Drive powerheads, but I'm sure if you go through that much trouble you'll want to go with more HP.

[CT_V-20]

Gotcha. My motor still runs fine, I'm just ready to up the oomph from 112hp or so to 150-200. Does one sea drive bracket fit all size outboards or were there different brackets for the V6s than for the V4? Thanks.

[chumbucket]

They made different brackets through the years they were produced, but I think that was more of an evolutionary thing rather than size ratings. I may be wrong so don't quote me on that one. One of the differences might have been the hydraulic steering that was available. Those were sized according to HP ranges.

[victore]

HEY MAKO JOE, IM IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SAME CONVERSION THAT YOU DID.
DOES YOUR BOAT PORPOUS AT ANY SPEED WITHOUT TABS. STAINLESS MARINE SAYS THE BOAT WILL PORPOUS WITH A 28" setback. what do you think ??
vic

[CT_V-20]

Good stuff chumbucket. Thanks for the info. I'll post a $ if I get a quote from Armstrong as it seems lots of people are asking questions about brackets. Hopefully it will be useful to others. I'm still interested in how long macojoe's Yamaha is, I went down in the wind and snow this morning to look at my Sea Drive and the motor box is at least 18" long (shrink wrap made it hard to be precise).

[macojoe]

If you trim it right you will not porpose.

But that said I like to open it up on a flat day!! So I will go WOT and trim for the best speed!! And if I get a small wave acation or what ever it will porpose!!
But all you have to do is trim down a hair and it goes away!!

I have been thinking about tabs for some time?? But I just learned all about triming last season ( I am slow) and that has helped alot!! I am going to give it this season with my new found trim skills and go from there.
But from the little I did this year, I don't think I will need them ??

[macojoe]

Ok CT V 20, I just went outside, with the motor down I am 24" away from the bracket and the nracket is 28" That is a total of 4' 4" to make my boat 24' 10 total length.

[macojoe]

Thats great!!!! But who is gil??

Are you going to do it your self? I did the whole job my self. Its not all that bad if you have the time and some no how.

[victore]

i just ordered my bracket from gil . they seem real nice over there. it has a 29" setback , thats all they make in a single. ill let you know how she goes. still need a motor.

[chumbucket]

Gil makes brackets MJ. ::)

http://www.gilmarine.com/products/gbracket/brackets.html

[victore]

I AM DOING THE PROJECT MYSELF MINUS THE GLASS WORK. I HIRED A PROFESSIONAL TO CLOSE THE HOLE AND RECREATE A FLUSH DECK IN THE STERN. HE IS CHARGING ME $1500. FOR ALL THE NECESSARY GLASS WORK TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE AN OUTBOARD BOAT. THE BRACKET COST ME $965. I HOPE THIS ALL WORKS OUT!!

[chumbucket]

Gildrive I is the one that I have MJ. You can also add the swim platform brackets to the sides and it'll look like your Stainless Marine bracket.

[macojoe]

Looks good! I like the swim platform for the extra support. I did the glass work myself and I need all the support I can get!

But since you are having it done by a professional see if he can add to the transom to make it supper strong!! You will need it! I just don't trust 500 pounds on the back of the transom that was not made to do it.

I have a transom saver that I made up for support when trailing! CB, say's if it ever falls off I can take out a 4 lane highway with it!! :o

[chumbucket]

That transom saver is like 7 feet long, 2" galvanized steel square stock with heavy duty ends welded to it to support the lower unit. ;D
God, I'd hate to see that thing coming at me on the highway. ;D

[bigshrimpin]

This might be a little late posting this link.

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/engineBrackets.html

[chumbucket]

The load of the engine weight is cantilevered off the transom, producing especially acute bending forces on the transom when the boat is bouncing down the highway on a trailer. With long setbacks, it may not be feasible to support the lower unit(s) of the engine(s) with an auxillary load bar, as is often done when trailering an engine in the tilted-up position. Stress on the transom from the large unsupported engine weight can be considerable.


They haven't seen MJ's contraption. :o ;D

[macojoe]

That was a good read!

See CB, I was right I need that transom saver!! *;D *As ugly as it is and the extra 2 min to put it on is Worth it to me!

No one ever told me of this when I did it. But having a 30 year old transom, and my glass work just told me I needed something!
I will have to see if I can get a pic of it and post it!!

I smell a pattern coming on!! *;D

No laughing allowed!!

[chumbucket]

I think I smell a business opportunity. You need to market that thing! ;D
Have one made out of aluminum to lighten it up a bit. ;)

[Seakindly]

BS - VERY INTERESTING ARTICLE. :)
A must read for anyone contemplating going the bracket route.

I guess there isn't any article like this from Wellcraft, instead of Boston Whaler, or you would have already posted it. I sure would like to hear from them about the V21's molded bracket design.

[CT_V-20]

Wheras Gil got right back to me, I have not yet heard a peep from Armstrong *>:(. Good luck Victore.

That was a great article, but..... "The engine thrust will be applied with a longer moment arm to the boat's center of lateral resistance and the boat's center of gravity, producing greater leverage of the engine thrust on both the boat's course and the boat's trim." ....huh? Can anybody dumb this down for me?

[macojoe]

I can only talk of my boat, I am no engineer, and I did the work my self.
Did I get lucky?? Did I do something different?? *All I have to say is that the boat is great in the turns, at wot, and in heavy seas, It tracks straight as a arrow!!

I love and hope you have as good as luck as I have had!!

p.s. I will show you how to make a super transom saver if you want!!

[bigshrimpin]

CT - I just look at the pictures . . . Seriously I have no idea what that guys is talking about . . . . there. I've seen MJ's boat in action and I was really impressed . . . it looks like a big stretch cadillac that just eats up waves.

You'll be fine with the braket w/o any extra transom saver contraptions. Bolt it on and go . . . you'll probably want trim tabs too.


SK - This is the best bracket read I come across so far . . . unfortunatly continouswave is all BW stuff. The short wellcraft bracket on the v21 is a very nice.

[Seakindly]

BS - Like the article said, the molded bracket on the BW added greatly to the production cost. On the v21, also, it is a modification that required much additional skilled carpentry and glasswork on a boat by boat basis. The v21's molded bracket, like the BW molded bracket, is added to the boat after coming out of the original mold. The extra cost to produce the molded bracket, probably, put production of the v21/20 to death, as wellcraft could not or would not go back to the old style transomm due to marketing forces.

When my molded bracket transom rots ( not too soon, I hope), I will probably just chop it off rather than restore it. I think I would raise the transom along the original lines to accomodate a 30 inch shaft that should by then be available in a 150 hp motor. I would leave the well so that the motor could be tilted with a bracket setback at about 12 inches, if I even wanted to keep a bracket. Bracket or not I would have an "almost full transom". Actually, it would be more "full" than my current hull.

CT, All the author is saying is what I called see-saw physics in one of my former posts. Extend the weight of the motor 30 inches back and you make the bow rise (trim). When he is talking about thrust and course, he is just saying that putting the motor farther back increases the steering or turning force on the boat (the same see-saw, just turned sideways).