Here's what I'm thinking

[kamikaze]

I'm starting to draw up plans for my spring project on my 74 CC and was wondering if the group had some insight on an additional side project I've been considering.

The basic driver for the project of ripping up the deck is to *move the below deck, 55 gallon, fuel tank farther forward by 2 - 3 feet *to better balance/level the boat when it sits in the water. *Although is may sound extreme, I'm not happy with the way the boat sits and handles since I installed a 26" setback bracket. * *Besides, *when I fish off the stern, *the additional weight lowers the hull in the water enough to *allow water to enter through the *scuppers and that in itself drives me nuts!

However, with the deck up, now would be the time to make all the interior mods I want before refitting and painting the interior once and for all.

The question I have for the group is you think that if I remove the casting deck, making the deck one continuous level , *the strength or integrity of the hull upfront will still be sufficient to punch through waves after wards. *I know that several years of the newer CC were configured this way but does anyone know if the hull was beefed up to support it?

Since my boat is wrapped up for winter, I used a pic of On_The_Fly rig to show what I want to do.

Current configuration
http://members.cox.net/douggross/asis.jpg

Here's a mock up of what I want it to do. *Remove the deck and add a small locker with a hatch up front to store the anchor and such.

http://members.cox.net/douggross/removed.jpg

Any input/suggestions would be appreciated.

Kamikaze

[macojoe]

I think you will be fine with the casting deck removed as it is part of the liner and not the hull its self.
The hull is the same no matter what you have, CC Cuddy or Dually.
The liner has been changed a few times in it 30+ years, and I might be wrong but I believe they made a non casting deck, at some point?

As for the moving of th gas tank, I have been on a CC and they ride real nice!! Much better then the Cuddy's! I think the cuddy has to much weight forward there fore it slaps much more in the slop.

I to have a set back bracket on my boat, and feel that it does ride a bit better since I moved the I/O out of the boat, and the weight of the motor out of the boat.

So yes the moving of the tank will help, but how much should you go inn order to achieve the right ride??

Also the more you move to the front, the more the tank is going to take a beating! The further back the softer the ride.

How about leaving the tank were it is or moving it up just a bit, and moving the CC up so when you are driving your weight will be the ballast you need?

[Skools Out]

Call Stinky to come with his Chain Saw and Pink thongs.

[Airslot]

Where and how do you fish the boat, and what is the power going to be on the bracket?

Airslot

[willy]

Kamikaze, I believe that MJ is correct about it being in the liner and not part of the hull, but I believe it does add rigidity to the hull forward. It is a question that I would post to BS and get his take on it.
But thinking about what you want to do, you could still add rigidity to the area by going down the side and across the floor, under it, and up the other side. Sort of like you see the Maycrafts and similar with the supports protruding out slightly the whole length of the boat along the sides.
How will you do it to seal the liner and keep its integrity once you cut it out?

[kamikaze]

Macjoe: Console is where it should be, but tank is really to far aft. If you look at my rig on the trailer and see where the axles are. You would be surprised to know that it is very light in the nose with a full tank of gas! Tank has got to go forward, but moving the console up a bit is possible as well.

Airslot: CBBT and surrounding area for fishing and a 150 Johnson for power,

Willy: I was going to cut and grind the deck even with the liner. Smooth and fair as needed, and then paint. Suspect I'll have to strength the deck underneath, but that was part of the plan to make it self bailing with a drain channel around the outside edge of the hull. I wasn't assuming cutting and repairing the deck from the liner was going to be that big of a deal? Although I like your suggestion of interior support channels. They wouldn't get in the way much given the bow flair and amount the cap comes in up front. I could tuck them in out of the way.


Kamikaze

[kamikaze]

Looking at On-The _Fly photos, are not sure the is a liner in a CC. Looks like the deck its just applied to the hull?

http://www.carolinayachtenterprises.com/V-20_rebuild3.html

Kamikaze

[macojoe]

Look at the 2nd pic down on the right, you can see were the liner is attached.

Wish there was a way that you could do the math to see how much weight you moved forward, to how much the bow would come down?

to much your going to be screwed, to little you going to stay the same?

you could move the tank and see what it gives you. then before you bolt the cc down permanent, then if its not enough you could adjust forward or back a little the cc to make up for it??

what we need is a math wizard here!!

[spareparts]

have you tried to move some weight around in the boat to see what happens? It might be easier too relocate a pair a of batteries fwd of the tank, at roughly 70 lbs each, it would be like removing 20 gals of gas on the rear and placing it fwd of the tank, I don't have a CC, so i don't know where your batteries are now, but it sure would be a lot easier than moving the tank. I hate the idea of removing the liner, its not because of the job itself, its just that you usually uncover something that wouldn't have bothered you if you hadn't known about it. I've seen alot of projects abbandoned after removing the liner.

[Airslot]

I think I'd head to Lowes or Home Depot and get a few 50# bags of play sand. Go to the ramp and play around with moving 300 lbs of sand forward of the tank and see how she sits. The reason I asked about power was to determine weight and the bracket. The reason I asked where you fished (and power), I was wondering if you might want more fuel ie bigger or second tank up front. The boats that don't have the casting deck have stiffening ribs up front.

Then again, you may do well to put the batteries under the console. If you move the console forward a foot it will help more, and give you more fishing room in the stern.

Lots of option here...

Airslot

[kamikaze]

Spareparts:

I have done some investigating but counterweighting off the fulcrum point of the hull is difficult. If I have someone weighing 250 lbs standing on the back edge of the casting deck up front. The water line on the hull is even with the water surface and it raises the stern appx 1 to 1 1/2 inches.

Unfortunately the dual batteries are as far forward in the console as possible , actually they are in front of the tank directly under the seat in front of the console.

Here a pic that may help
http://members.cox.net/douggross/tank.jpg

Don't worry about project completion. I have replaced many a soft floors before and know whats ahead. Just not sure the hull is strong enough without the bracing the fore deck offers, as the bow flairs and just above the water line where waves often break when running hard.

Kamikaze

[willy]

Got no idea about the weight issue brother, but in regards to the other mods I woud definetly do the strengthening rib forward.

[macojoe]

I still don't think the liner offers much support to the hull? But you will know as soon as you open it up!

The real thing that stiffens the hull is the floor and the cap. So when you remove the platform and add flooring, then fix and glass the liner back to the floor you will be just fine.

Good Idea about using the sand bags to try different things. But you are using sand bags at the same time the tank is still in there?

I know, add sand bags to bow till you get the ride you want, then when you get rid of the casting deck, add same sand bags to the hull before you close up the floor, now you don't have to move anything ;) ;D

[garagenc]

kam

I'm a Naval Arch Tech at NNSY (Norfolk Naval Shpiyard) in Portsmouth Va. I have friends over in another struct dept that handles nothing but ballasting. I've some exp with this matter in my line of work. What I've found out is a easy way mentioned by spare & air by moving weight (sandbags etc). Calculate the weight of the tank full of gas and move that much weight to the area you want the tk to be and see how it planes and rides. You can adjust the weight by movement fwd / back / side to side to get a feel of what to expect. BUT remember that when you actually move the tank you have to compensate for the loss of that weight back there and the best way to do that is run the boat with only bare minimum fuel to get a true picture of what the performance will be.

Next if you remove the casting deck, it is my belief you will have to beef the bow which you can do by vertical/horizontial stringers or by both in a configuration inside the stowage/locker you want to install. If there's not enough space in the locker then you could configure the stringers to look & hold rods and still achieve strength. I believe you must strengthen the bow based upon past calculations I've had to do in my line of work.

[kamikaze]

Calculate the weight of the tank full of gas and move that much weight to the area you want the tk to be and see how it planes and rides. You can adjust the weight by movement fwd / back / side to side to get a feel of what to expect. BUT remember that when you actually move the tank you have to compensate for the loss of that weight back there and the best way to do that is run the boat with only bare minimum fuel to get a true picture of what the performance will be.

garagenc:

I work up in NSWC Dahlgren and it sounds like your the man I've been looking for. I agree with your suggestions on both accounts.

1.) Tank location will be easy to establish per your suggestion. Will do.

2.) Now for the hull bracing. I have access to 2 inch think solid hickory that I can use as bracing under the deck/ across the hull and as ribs up the side of the hull , much in the same manner as the current ribs are now formed. Don't think I can only rely on the hatch area as the majority of bracing as it will be to far forward and won't support the area of the bow that I'm concerned with. However even if I glass in the ribs to the inner/hull, it's still a large distance to rely on the joining of the ribs to the cross bracing under the deck given the flair and wave catching it offers. Or do you think what I suggest will take care of it?

Kamikaze

[spareparts]

asking the obvious again, but is your setback bracket a floatation type? If not is there any room for floatation( add floatation swim platforms on each side perhaps)? Just trying to come up with the easy way out.

[Airslot]

Ive seen these ribs installed quite a few times. Two layers of 3/4" ply glassed together and glassed in work very well and are easier to work with compared to 2" hickory.

Airslot

[Airslot]

Here's an example of what I was referring to above.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e41/Airslot/9-22fishingtrip011.jpg

These rids are two layers of 3/4" ply glassed in. You could do the same thing up towards the bow. The boat pictured is a 1970ish Aquasport 222.

Airslot

[garagenc]

Kam

How is it up there at nswc?

I believe you should be able to tie the new stringer/frames into the existing floor stringers.

When you move the temp weight to find out the balance point see if you can leave the CC in it's original place; normally they are installed just fwd/aft of the fulcrum point (center of gravity) to keep the nose of the boat from staying up or down.

[Airslot]

Check out BuilderFL's new pics. It's obviously a design that worked for Wellcraft.

Airslot

[reelapeelin]

Check out BuilderFL's new pics. It's obviously a design that worked for Wellcraft.

Airslot


New pics in his Gallery?...


That's sure some "Purdy Work" on that Aquasport 8) ...

[macojoe]

That boat going to be better then when new!! Great pic, BFL!

[kamikaze]

I asked Fl builder to take a look in his hull and let me know Basically thats what I want to do to mine, just without the built in seat/boxes up front.

Kamikaze

[Airslot]

I was referring to those seat boxes. They give a little bit of rigidity to the hull.

Airslot