Models

[Mac_Attack]

What models of the V20 did Wellcraft offer in 1990. What are the differences between them? Example V20 Sport. Thanks Bill Mc

[chumbucket]

Hey Mac_. I'm not 100% certain, but I believe in 1990 Wellcraft offered the Steplift V20 Cuddy and the center console V20. The center console was offered in the "Sport" or "Fisherman" trim. As far as I can tell, there isn't much difference between the two. On the few years that they offered the Dual Console models, that was usually the "Sport" designation with the "Fisherman" label applied to the center console. The cuddy cabins were just labeled "Steplift V20" even though they all share the "Steplift" hull.
Not much more I can tell you. If you found one in a classified labeled as "Sport", my guess is that it's a center console.

[Mac_Attack]

The one I'm talking about is the one In Ohio at ABLboats.com. Macojoe , it's the one with a Force 150 on it. The seller sent me additional photos of it. It's a cuddy version. The captains chair is a pedestal mount with no cooler or live well under it. Port side has back to back chairs again no cooler or live well under it, just a storage area. I was wondering if there was a fisherman model that had the cooler and live well. Thanks Bill Mc

[macojoe]

Not that I no of?? Like CB said all the Cuddys were pretty much the same.
Alot of people have come up with there own add on's later.
The Center Console was for fishing there for they gave it some xtra stuff. The Cuddy is a family fishing boat and was geared more that way. I belive the Cuddy offers more room for fishing then the CC, But the CC offers the full leanth of the boat to fish.
There is good and Bad in both designs. You just need to think what will suit you the best!!

What ever you deside if you buy this boat, remember That the motor is a FORCE and you will be looking at the very least repairs if not replacement of the engin

[Seakindly]

Use the FORCE.

Let the FORCE be with you.

[macojoe]

use the Force just make sure you have your Tow boat all payed up!!

[Mac_Attack]

I stopped by my local marine repair shop to get their opinion on the Force motor. The salesman shook his head no and asked the girl behind the counter if Bob the head mechanic was still there. She asked what was the question her answer "don't do it." Bob came out the question was aked his responce was that they make good anchors. I'll keep looking! Bill Mc ;D

[Seakindly]

I dunno Mac, that boat sounds like it deserves a good look. Just don't pay much for the Force, because it ain't worth much.

Did you check out the Force - repair forum on www.iboats.com ?

[Mac_Attack]

Yes, I've looked there and it's like it depends on who you listen. *One guy has had no trouble, the other quite a bit. *I'll probably go to Cleveland when the weather breaks and look. It appears to be well taken care of. *Buying used no matter what brand motor you never know. *My Gruman has a 40 HP Suzuki no problems knock on a wooden hull. *I like the V21 with its cooler and live well. *I've found a 96 V21, their asking *$16900, it's very clean 150 Johnson. *If I bought the Ohio boat let's say $6-7000 then had to buy new or used motor I'd have any wheres from 13000 to 19000 in it. *Just have to have the kahunas and jingle to do it either way. * Bill Mc

[chumbucket]

Don't pay $6-7000 knowing that you're going to be replacing the motor. That's not sound economics. You're absolutely right that there are no assurances that nay used motor will be 100%. If there's any question, have it surveyed or at least have a good mechanic check it out for you.

[Mac_Attack]

Thanks for your concern CB. What I meant was that if I paid 6-7000 for the boat thinking that the motor was good , meaning in running order and than it did crap out and I opted to replace rather than repair I could be out that 13000 to19000 dollars. I won't buy it without a survey and an in water (lake) load test. I talked to another local repair shop (Johnson, Evinrudes). He was not as opposed as the other mechanic. He just said they don't have as much power and its 80's technology. He could do routine service but any parts needed I'd have to locate and deliver. Oh, by the way, I use a Gillette Mach 3 Turbo. Bill Mc ;D

[chumbucket]

;D Best shave in town. Stay away from that Schick crap >:(

[Seakindly]

In round numbers, I would pay about 4000 for the hull and another grand for the force, but only if I had to and it was in good running condition.

Mac - So you're asking 8000 for the boat and motor? :-/

Seller - Yeah, I'm asking 8000, but that's negotiable.

Mac - ok, so how did you come up with that figure?

( the answer to this is really imortant, so listen carefully )

Seller - Well I paid 16000 for it new and I figure 8000 is a fair price.

(or)

Seller - I figure the boat is worth 5000 and the motor is worth 3000.

(either way)

Mac - Well the reason I ask is because I already have a motor. Would you consider selling me just the boat?

Seller - I really wanted to sell it as a package, but, yeah I could do that.

MAC - I could give you 4000 for the boat.

Seller - I figure it's worth 5000, and I still have to sell the motor.

Mac - yeah, but at least you can get the boat out of your driveway and your wife off your back, and put the motor in the garage while you sell it.

Seller - that's true, but I still figure it's worth 5000.

Mac - well my budget is kinda tight. What do you say we split the difference?

Seller - 4500?

MAC = yeah 4500 - CASH

Seller - ok

[macojoe]

Sounds like a deal to me!! Go for it!
Good luck

[Mac_Attack]

I only wish it was that easy. The couple that are selling the boat are expecting their first child and don't see a great need for the boat. They also expect to be moving away from Lake Erie and won't need such a large boat. I don't see them keeping the Force. If you listen to one guy on IBOATS forum he found his Forse in the ditch along side the road so why would any one want to buy one.
He wants to sell it. I'm interested but want to wait and give it an in water test. We'll see. Boat show season people will be looking to sell so they can pay for their new purchases. I've got boat fever real bad! Bill Mc

[macojoe]

Listen, I have had to friends that have gone the Force way and today they are both getting new motors!! One does not have the cash for anything great and is buying a 1980 Evenrude 150 for $1800 with all controls. The guy he is getting it from will not even take the force for parts!!

The other has been putting Hundreds after hundreds every year for the last 4 years and has had it!! He foud some one to give him $500 for a 1994 Force 150 and feels bad that he screwed the guy!!

You have heard from some people here, a mechainc you talked with, and many people from iboats.
What will it take to convince you that they are CRAP!!

I am sorry but if you buy this motor I wishlots of luck and my prays are with you.

[Mac_Attack]

Thanks Mac! I have the fever but I'm not delirious yet. *I won't rush in to it. *I'd like to go to Cleveland *and see it. *When you have the fever you have to be careful. *Getting back to the topic Models, if you go to NADA.com the boat section. They list for Wellcraft 1990 a 20' sport and a V20 stern drive. *Could the 20' sport be a V20. *There is quite a difference in the ave price between the two models. *Mac I'm like the old bull at the top of the hill, I'll walk down and get me a nice V20 or 21. *Bill Mc ;D


Mac, did you get the photos I sent you? Thought you might like the shark.

[Seakindly]

MAC,
It really could be that easy.
Let HIM SELL the force separately.

You need to find out what he thinks the force is worth. If he thinks it is worth much, and you can get the boat only - then you will get a great price on the boat. No need to convince him that the force is not a good motor.

On the other hand, if he doesn't think the force is worth much then you will probably have to take it with the boat, but you won't be paying much for the forve because you both agree the force isn't worth much. And if it is actually a good running motor you may be pleasantly surprised at what a bargain your cheap power was.

Last scenario, is if he thinks the force is worth much, and won't sell separately. This will be tough as you will have to convince him that it is not worth as much as he thinks it is. Show him the nada book value, for starters. Lack of available parts and authorized mechanics etc.

As for the hull, this is one you probably don't want to miss out on. Freshwater use only, short boating seasons and only been pushed around a lake by a force motor sounds like a real winner to this old salt.

I would be all over this in a new york minute, if I didn't have my v21!

If you wait till spring you will pay more. I would phisically check out the boat thoroughly, although I would be shocked if it wasn't in exceptional condition. Waiting for a sea trial in spring may add a grand to the price and what will it tell you?I assume you know how a v20 rides. If I was also taking the force for peanuts, I would be happy if it ran and I would run it untill it died and then repower.

I would much rather have a cherry 1990 with an almost free force or no motor for 4000 - 6000 than a 1996 v21 with a 1996 outboard that has been run hard in the ocean for the last 8 years for 17000.

If you dont agree then give me that boat and 12000 for my v21 and we'll call it even.

Whatever you decide, good luck! :)

[chumbucket]

Good sound advice. ;)

[ken]

hey guys,
just a reminder.....i'm the guy who traded a harley davidson toolbox for a 71 v20 cc. with a 91 force 150 :-[ i have heard all the bad stuff about the force too, and it probaly true. but i have heard that there are a few good stories out there toooooo. well i talked to a guy who worked on force he worked at a marina that sold a ton of force motors, they sold bayliners. he said alot of the problem was the newbies that bought the cheap deals on boat motors and trailer package. they never owned a boat before. they never read the manual, or did any maintenance. which these motors need.
yes they are cheap motors, were made that way to keep the price down, but if the maintenance was done you have a very good chance that it will give you good service. as for how i feel about my force well time will tell. i feel the weak link on my deal is the motor only because of all the stories. would i buy a force motor on purpose? no way......... but i'm stuck with what i have. the one good thing the motor was rebuilt last spring.
well anyway i will be starting on the boat in the next week or so, my kid said it will be floating my april 1st. we will see. hope to have some pic. as we go along.
ken

[Mac_Attack]

I like that side of the story. Mac-Attack

[AirborneJarhead]

The Force line filled a huge niche in the marine market. It allowed people who ordinarily didn't have the funds to spend on a new boat an opportunity. Bayliner really capitalized on the whole deal. They provided a cheaper alternative to all the floating Rolls Royces that filled the water.
I remeber a buddy of mine in the Marines that bought a brand new 19' runabout with a Force 85 or something. He got terrific financing and was able to enjoy the boat for the few years he was stationed at Camp Lejeune.
Of course, affordability almost always comes at a price and that price is paid in full in repairs and upkeep.
Bayliners were notorious for thin windshields, terrible gauges, and overall shoddy parts in their boats. Combine these with a saltwater environment and a novice owner and it's no wonder that most experienced boaters frown when "Bayliner" pops up in a boating conversation.
DISCLAIMER: I am by no means bashing any Bayliner owners who may be lurking hereabout! The above is an opinion based on my experiences. ;D