Lower Unit Screws

[willy]

Anyone know any tricks to getting out froze lower unit screws to change your fluid, I ground a large screw driver to fit but the slots are a little worn and even after tapping a little they will not budge >:(

[chumbucket]

I had one once that was frozen in pretty good. I used a very large square shanked screwdriver and while holding it into the slot with a lot of pressure, turned the screwdriver with an adjustable wrench on the square part of the shank. New screws, gasket and Never-Seize on the threads from then on. ;)

[willy]

Gotcha CB that is what I tried to do but the slot is too shallow for me to get a strong purchase even with a fresh ground large head screwdriver. Any other tricks besides tapping it to loosen

[Airslot]

I've had good luck in the past w/ an "impact driver", it's like a screwdriver that you hit w/ a hammer.

Airslot

[jaysea]

i have an impact screwdriver,its used with a hammer ,as you hit it with the hammer it gives the screw or a nut the twist it needs to loosen or rusted stuff ,it has diffrent adaptors for diffrent fittings,suprised nobody else has one,cost about $20

[willy]

Thanks Jaysea, CB I got them off now I'm really confused, the lower unit oil flowed out, no water no shavings in fluid, no shavings on the magnets nice and clean and thick
Just one little problem I have never seen before
ITS TANNISH WHITE COLOR
no dirt no black or blue green like I have normally seen, solid white WTF is that you guys please tell me there is a lower unit oil that is white

[chumbucket]

:o Sorry 'bout that bud. You may possibly have a leaky lower unit seal. Milky white oil generally means water mixed with it. Better get that checked out. Not the end of the world and not too difficult to replace. ;)

[Blue_Runner]

Willy, the whitish stuff is water mixed in with your oil. That could mean your lower unit seal is bad or going bad. How much "milk" ya got and how long has it been since the last oil change?

Another thing, on the back of both screws there is a small plastic washer. I've been told that each time you change the oil to replace that washer. Now that brings me to my point - is the plastic washer there? If not, that could possibly how the water got in? Maybe not.

A little bit of water over a long period of time shouldn't be too bad as long as you change it often (1 or 2 times a year). Otherwise, you might be in need of a new lower unit seal kit. I've never done this work personally, and would probably have to pay the shop to do it for me as I don't know my way around the lower unit too well. But, with a good manual, it is very do-able for a backyard hack. Good luck.

[Mac_Attack]

Put your tanish color oil in a glass jar, leave it set the water and oil will separate if there is water there. If there is you've got seals to replace. Bill Mc ;D

[willy]

Yea guys I have seen a little whitish in the fluid before, but this is solid white, like it never had any blue/black at all, thick and clean almost like it came that way. There where no white washers or anything else on the screws and the magnet and the oil (?) were clean no dirt shavings or anything else, never saw any thing like it

[willy]

And Mac the fluid has been sitting for over an hour, no water at all

[willy]

Just went out and checked fluid again, no water at all, and there is a white washer on the top screw could not see it before but there is none on the bottom. Is there supposed to be one there to?

[Blue_Runner]

I don't know if they all have the little washers - but my Johnson/Evinrude motors all had em.

That's wierd that its so white?? I've never seen it look that way! Only whitish swirly looking, you know?

It must have a heck of a lot of water in it or something??

[willy]

Blue both screws on yours

[willy]

Thats what it is Blue 99 Johnson 115

[Blue_Runner]

Yes, both screws had the washer. 3 different motors I've owned. The oldest was a 1975 and the newest a 1991. I don't know if the newer ones still had the washer. But......I bet tha Skool man can school us on that!

[willy]

Yea they do Blue I just got a diagram for it and both have those washers, only the upper one is on my motor, I'm wondering if that is why water got it, assuming that is what it is. Because like you said when I've seen water in a lower unit before the oil was dark with some whitish swirls in it. This is solid colored with absolutely no black at all and it feels like oil and there is no water seperating from it at all ???

[willy]

Just got off the phone with a good friend of mine, older fellow been building and working on outboards for a long time. I told him what I found and he told me he has seen that several times in past, could be a leaking seal, could be since the blue washer that goes on first in the bottom screw was not put on last time it was opened it could have drwn water from there. But he says that if I had that kind of problem there would have been quite a bit of visible water in the oil which as of now (4 hrs) there is a table spoon worth he says he has seen it with very old oil that has not been changed for a long time and he has seen it when cheap oils were used and not changed and he has seen it when additives have been put in the oil. He told me to pick up the washers and replace and put new oil in and run it a couple of times then change it again. Look for water and go from there.

[Mac_Attack]

If its water, *it will separate. *My 40HP Suzuki had water in the lower unit discovered during the fall drain. *Changed prop seals first because they were easiest to change. *Next year I had water again. *Pulled lower end and changed the shaft seals near water pump. *Result, no water the next year. *I've had four motors and all had washers or seals on the two screws. *Someone in an earlier post had said they changed their lower unit oil twice a season, middle and at the end of the season. *Reason given for mid season change was to catch a leak early before any major sugery was required. I thought it was a great idea but I haven't started the practice yet. *Good Luck! *Bill Mc *;D

[willy]

Question can you change the water pump impeller and not drain the fluid, Rich had said the pump had been done and it pumps like a fire house, but that fluid definetly has not been changed for a long time ???

[Mac_Attack]

I have a Force 150 1990, *When I first bought the boat I changed the whole pump asembly. On my motor the oil does not have to be drained as lond as you keep motor verticle. *Bill Mc *;D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/Machockey/saturday007.jpg

[fillet1]

Bill,

The lower unit had a new outside seal installed in march of this year, was pressure tested, and had new oil put in it. At least that is what I paid for. I didnt see what kind of oil was put in it. I tried to call you at home -no answer.

[chumbucket]

Well, with any luck, it is just the screw gaskets that caused some minor leakage. Sounds like no real damage done. I would do as suggested; Install new screws with gaskets (washers), fresh lower unit oil, then keep an eye on it. Should be nothing to worry about. ;)

[Skools Out]

have you gotten them out yet? i have used a hand held impact tol that you turn with pressure like your unscrewing and hit it with a hammer.
Can take a healthy screw driver and hit it with a hammer to try the same thing. No need to buy lower unit oil. Gear Oil is the exact same thing. Buy 80 weight gear oil at local auto store. Better off to buy Syn. 80 Gear Oil. Much cheaper and same thing as lower unit oil.

[Skools Out]

this is best stuff since sliced bread. It really works. Just add the correct amount to a quart of the gear oil before you put each one in the lower unit. Shake it then put in the lower unit it will seal it tight as a V_ _ _ _ N. Heck i use the same gear oil with sealant in my air compressors.

http://cgi.ebay.com/STOP-OIL-LEAKS-IN-ANY-SYSTEM-GUARANTEED_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ41506QQitemZ 7554988559QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

http://i5.ebayimg.com/01/i/03/c4/7c/6d_1_b.JPG

[willy]

Hey Lord Skools what color is that stuff. and what color is that sealant your talking about? Did you read the whole post about the stuff that came out being clean no shavings no dirt and almost a solid off white and approx two tablespoons of water tops in unit, Filett says the lower seal was done in march, and lower unit serviced along with impeller. The stuff is like a whitish oil no black at all. Only thing visibly wrong was the lower drain screw was put back without washer, upper had the white washer

[reelapeelin]

Willy, take it to a tech who can PRESSURE TEST the lower unit...obviously there's a water intrusion problem of some kind and that'll locate it...then do the seal-kit or whatever it takes from there...talk to the tech about how to get as much of that crud outta there as possible... ;)...

Best to check lower-unit oil when purchasing used OB...my old '86 Rude wasn't as bad as you describe, but WAS in need of changing... ;)...

[willy]

Gotcha Rap

[Skools Out]

yeah if it had water it has a leak. Or a bad screw seal as stated earlier. Some Lower unit oil is off white or cream gray. Most shops don't use lower unit oil they just buy 80w Gear Oil which comes in tons of colors so without seeing it before it was put in no way of knowing if it was suppose to be that color. Last Gear oil i bought i got Red so i could tell if it got water in it. That sealant is Clear and thin. I had a V-6 resealed and shimmed it cost $250 and i took it off to save the removal fee. They provided the seal kit and the shims.

That sealant did stop a major leak in my Hydro-Brake Booster in my Tahoe. It was leaking out of the Hydro's Cylinder.

[willy]

Thanks Skools ;)

[Blue_Runner]

Willy, sounds like it could possibly not be all water? New washers on those screws, fresh clean lube and check or change the oil again after 10 or 20 hrs of operation to make sure ;)

[reelapeelin]

Hey, MJ!!!...from what you said about you and oil-systems the other day, this Seal-Lube is YOUR stuff!!... ;) ;D...I might get a can of that just to have around...in case I spring a leak in one of my several lube systems... ::)...

Willy, if that gearcase holds up to a pressure-test, maybe the techs that did the service used some kinda ''white'' oil...Heck, get Fillet to ask the guys WHAT they used...

[willy]

Thanks Blue and Rap, I'm waiting to hear back from Fillet, he tried calling last night I wasn't home. I ordred that stuff from Lord Skools post this morning, nice guy, emailed me back with some instructions. I went out this morning and looked at that oil(?) and there is about a table spoons worth of water in there. Thats it. Like I said I've seen lower unit oil that had water in it and you would see like swirls of whitish in it. Not the case hear which is why I don't understand. Solid clean off white so maybe Skools hit it on the head. I'm replacing those screws and washers and going to put that sealer in with new oil and check after a couple of days of running thanks all for the advise I'll let you know ;)

[willy]

it keeps changing the word spoon to thingy what the h@ll

[Airslot]

The reason you don't see much water is that lower unit oil is designed to hold water. It won't seperate out like if you mix oil and water in a jar. Lower unit oil can absorb something along the lines of 25% water and still be effective. Keeps from grenading your lower unit.

Airslot

[willy]

Thanks Airslot did not know that, my other outboards over the years when I would change the oil I could definetly see water and after awhile it would seperate out even more.

[Skools Out]

Willy you'll need to run your lower unit after putting that sealant in it. It should run about 10 min or so better off to run it out of the water on muffs so it's not under water. just put it in gear and let it run in gear for about 10 min that will work it in all the seals. You will find some water after so use no matter what all units will. They get hot then you take it out of the water run the motor on muffs to flush and the temp change cause's condensation.

[willy]

Just an info update for you guys, in case you run into the same type of problem. There is a well respected boat shop near here and I found out the following. Though I still could have a leak if I have had any water in there it is likely coming thru the washerless screw on the unit. Also the consistency I had in the white oil is not consistent with water in it, several marinas and shops at least in NJ use an very inexpensive oil in the lower units called Lubriplate, and it is white to off white in color, and cheap. Lot of places stopped using it because it was hard to tell if water was in it. Also if you get a service done on your lower unit and you are told it was pressure tested that is only half of it, it also has to be vacum tested because there are back to back seals. The third thing is if you have any doubts about what you have in your lower unit you should flush it before filling it again with clean oil because the the old stuff and water will contaminate it and you won't get an accurate picture of what is going on. To flush it you use Mineral Spirits. Put it in and let it sit and then drain it all and let it seep for a couple of hours. Then use clean oil and fill I'm sure some of you guys know these things already but I did'nt and wanted to put it out there

[Skools Out]

been there know it but DO NOT USE Mineral Spirits
it will melt your rubber seals. use new lube and run a couple pumps through it till the oil lube all runs out and begins to be new clean lube.

[willy]

Wow Skools why would the guy tell me that :-X lucky I put it out here first. I will do what you say. Apparently that is what they do in his shop. Unbelievable .

[Skools Out]

yeah Willy i messed up a SB Chevy Balancer that has the rubber between it with Mineral Spirits after soaking it less than 2 hours to clean it. *>:(*I also messed up the seals in a power head cleaning it to rebuild the o ring seals turned into like a jelly and just mushed away lol. Rubber and Mineral Spirits don't mix Been there messed up with that before. >:( >:( ??? >:(

[willy]

I LOVE YOU MAN :-*

[reelapeelin]

Willy, how'd it do w/the pressure/vacum test?...find anything?...

[willy]

they did no testing, I stopped there on the way to work this afternoon for info and to pick up some parts and to speak with the head guy in the shop. He told me that they see that white oil once in a while, when boats come in for service from marinas especially. Apparently sold in 55 gallon drums. I'm still not sure, I'm going to flush it like Skools says, put that sealer in with new oil and run it a couple times and then check it. I have been waiting to hear back from Fillet, trying to find out what he means by lower seal being replaced. Maybe give the shop a call and find out what exactly they put in there. If it is oil mixed with water it is the darndest thing I have ever seen. Too solid and clean looking, looks like white oil ???

[Skools Out]

probably is white oil i've seen it alot too. That's why i bought RED lol no question that way.

[reelapeelin]

Willy, if it is the white oil, I'd save the sealer for if you ever DO have a need for it...it's soundin' more and more like there's no water in it... ;) :)...white oil...who'da thunkit??...

[Skools Out]

I put the sealant in all my units even if they don't leak as good Insurance. It's don't take a who bottle Just like an oz. per quart of oil.

[willy]

Thats what I'm going to do Skool, today I'm flushing it out ,I bought cheap wal mart lower unit oil, I'll put it in run it for a few minutes then let it all drain out. The sealer should be here tommorow so I will put in the good oil and sealer, run it like Skools said on the muff and hose and then hopefully I can get out in the next few days. Go from there. Fillet says the prop shaft seal had leaked because fishing line got in there and it had to be replaced. hpoefully that is all that was leaking and I'll find out after a couple of runs.