HELP!!! PLEASE

[C YENSEN]

OK GUYS, WELL I AM STILL HAVING PROBLEMS WITH THE MOTOR (1984 470 MERCRUISER)

SHE STARTS FINE, SHE IDLES FINE, AND THEN I TRY TO TAKE HER UP TO SPEED (3900 RPM) AND SHE WILL RUN AT THAT RPM FOR 2 TO 4 MINUTES THEN SHE GIVES OUT. IT SOUNDS LIKE SHE IS STRUGGLING TO GET FUEL. SHE GOES FROM RUNNING GREAT ONE SECOND TO SPITTING AND SPUTTERING AND CHOKING HERSELF OUT. AFTER SHE HAS HER FIT, SHE WILL NOT GO BACK UP OVER 3100 RPM. SATURDAY AFTER SHE HAD HER FIT, I TRIED TO FORCE HER BACK UP TO SPEED AND THERE WAS A PINGING COMING FROM THE CARBURATOR (LIKE THERE WAS SOMETHING LOOSE INSIDE)

I HAVE REPLACED:

SPARK PLUGS
WIRES
POINTS
CONDENSOR
ROTOR
ALL FUEL LINES
FUEL FILTER (TWICE)

FOR THE FEW MINUTES THAT SHE IS RUNNING WELL THE MOTOR SOUNDS VERY STRONG, BUT AFTER SHE HAS HER FIT, SHE RUNS VERY ROUGH (LOT OF SHAKING)

COULD IT BE THE FUEL PUMP?? I CAN REPLACE THAT, BUT IF IT IS A PROBLEM WITH THE CARB, I WILL HAVE TO TAKE IT SOMEWHERE. I REALLY DON'T THINK I KNOW ENOUGH TO TEAR A CARBERATOR APART.

ANY SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE AWESOME.

I AM READY TO PULL MY HAIR OUT ON THIS ONE. STRIPER SEASON IS GOING BY QUICKLY AND IT IS ALMOST TIME TO WINTERIZE HER AND I WANT TO GET THIS PROBLEM FIXED BEFORE THE SPRING

THANKS GUYS

[macojoe]

well the fuel pump is cheap and easy to replace, you could try that first, then go for the Carb rebuild.

Have you blown out the vent hoses and the vents them selfs??
Some times blowing them out is not anough!! I swear tht some of them bugs you crazy glue to build them nests!!

Get a small cheap car fuel filter and install in the line, the one you can see thur. This way while running you can look at it to see if it is staying full of gas or nnot getting any when you speed up.

pinging?? seems like te gas you are using is carpy?? getting water in the tank??

Try to use a small gas tank on the deck. If it runs with that then you no fuel delivery is messed up spme where. If does the same with remote tank, see thur filter and fresh gas then I would think Carbs.

Good luck!!

[C YENSEN]

I REPLACED THE VENT HOSE TO THE TANK, SO I KNOW IT IS NOT ANY SUPERGLUING BUGS. I WILL TRY THE TANK ON THE DECK, AND THE INLINE FILTER.

THANKS

[macojoe]

make sure you put the filter after the fuel pump!! This way you can see if the pump is able to pump and keep it full!

[reelapeelin]

Can you get a fuel sample when running GOOD and when running BAD?...water will quickly settle to bottom of tank when boat's not moving...as boat's movement mixes water into the gas, it'll cause what you're talking about...can't be sure cause I'm not there, but I'd be taking a hard look for water in the tank...do you have a fuel ''filter'' or a water ''seperator''?...they are different animals w/different functions.... ;)...

Cyensen, what year model is your V20 and where is the vent intake located?...

[C YENSEN]

IT IS A WATER SEPERATOR. SORRY FOR USING THE WRONG WORD. THE GUY I BOUGHT IT OFF OF ONLY STORED IT WITH 20 GALLONS OF GAS LAST WINTER (60 GALLON TANK) BEFORE I TOOK HER OUT I TOPPED OFF THE TANK AND ADDED A COUPLE BOTTLES OF FUEL DRY.

IF THERE IS WATER IN THE TANK ANY SUGGESTION ON HOW TO GET IT OUT WITHOUT DRAINING THE APPROXIMATE 40 OR 50 GALLONS OF GAS IN THE TANK ???

IT IS A 1984 V20 WITH ORIGINAL 470 MERCRUISER MOTOR.

THE VENT LINE IS LOCATED RIGHT NEXT TO THE FUEL TANK FILL LINE.

[C YENSEN]

CANT PUT A FILTER AFTER THE PUMP. THE LINE FROM THE PUMP TO THE CARBERATOR IS A STEEL LINE. :(

[C YENSEN]

HEY I JUST REALIZED I AM NO LONGER A "NEWBIE" THAT PUT A ;D ON MY FACE.

[reelapeelin]

Cyensen, can you disconnect the fuel supply line after the fuel-pump, then wire power to the pump to run some of your fuel from the tank? Problem w/this is, if water has settled to below pick-up then all you'll get is gas...if you can do this in the water, possibly as hard as you can, ROCK the boat back and forth to mix water/fuel while you pull a sample (you'll probably need a friend here)...run the sample into a clear container...if there's water there it'll sink to the bottom fairly quickly...remember you're dealing w/gasoline and FUMES are more volatile than the gas itself...keep in mind while runnun' that wire to the fuel pump...

Another thought; will a hose or something slide into your tank from the cap?...if it'll go to the BOTTOM, you can siphon a sample from there...if you can get your hands on a marine or automotive 12v fuel pump, use that instead of siphoning...that way, IF you find water, you can pump it right out ...if you try to feed a hose in from the filler cap, make sure it's clean and it'll have to feed thru a 90 degree neck on the tank; keep turning the hose to get past it...

This should have been my1st question; does your water seperator have water in it?...if so, you'll eventually get it out by continually dumping it...and adding fresh gas...

[macojoe]

It really does sound like bad gas to me.

Getting it out is not hard, its were to put it all as you are taking it out!!!! :o

You may want to look up that Seafoam stuff that willy was talking about. That mght get you all cleaned up?

[Blue_Runner]

Never used Seafoam, but my brother in law is a true believer. He tells me all the time, "Get you some Seafoam"....I get tired of hearing it ;D

[offshorega]

I'M NOT A CERT. MECHANIC, BUT I'M WITH THE REST OF YOU. *SOUNDS LIKE WATER IN THE FUEL TANK, ESPECIALLY IF LEFT SITTING UP OVER THE WINTER WITH JUST 20 GALS. OF FUEL IN'ER. *AS MUCH AS I HATE TO, I FILL UP AFTER EVERY RUN, BUT YOU'LL CUT DOWN ON THESE ISSUES IF YOU DO.
ALSO, I'VE GOT A BUD THAT ALWAYS YAPS ABOUT SEAFOAM. *I HAVEN'T HAD ANY ISSUES AS YET WITH MINE BUT I MIGHT TRY IT WHEN I DO. *

[Airslot]

Here's a few more thoughts. Wellcraft has in the past put a sock like fuel filter on the bottom of the pickup tube in the tank. You have to remove the pickup to get at it (not difficult) and it can cause a terrible fuel restriction. When you slow down it can clear up a little but when you put the hammer down it can't flow enough for long. Another possibilty. is there a filter where the fuel line enters the carb, most times there is. If it runs good for any amount of time it's probably not the carb so that's some good news. Good luck,

Airslot

[Airslot]

Another possible fuel restriction in the pickup is the anti-siphon valve which can go bad.

Airslot

[Airslot]

If I can help let me know. I'm only 35 minutes away and my neighbor is a top merc tech.

Airslot

[C YENSEN]

WELL WHEN IT GOES FROM RUNNING WELL TO RUNNING BAD THERE IS NO SLOW ABOUT IT. IT STARTS RUNNING ROUGH FASTER THAN YOU CAN BLINK.

AND AIRSLOT IF YOU COULD ASK YOUR BUDDY IF HE HAS ANY IDEAS, I WOULD APPRECIATE IT.


THANKS FELLOW, CANT TEAR ANYTHING APART TONIGHT THE HURRICANE'S RAIN HAS MADE IT MY WAY.

[mmiklosz]

You may want to consider removing the anti-siphoning valve.

[C YENSEN]

THAT IS TWICE SOMEONE SAID SOMETHING ABOUT THE ANTI-SIPHONING VALVE. THE ONLY PROBLEM IS I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE IT IS OR WHAT THE HELL IT LOOKS LIKE. :'(

IS IT IN THE TANK? IN THE FUEL LINE?

(ON THE TRAILER?JUST KIDDING ;D)

IF SOMEONE COULD HELP A ROOKIE MECHANIC OUT THAT WOULD BE GREAT.

AND WHAT THE HELL IS THE ANTI-SYPHONING VALVE FOR ???

[reelapeelin]

When you replaced the hoses, did you clean out the vent itself?...if so, sounds like you've done all you can...next step is to cut thru the sealant around tank-cover and remove sender unit...not as painful as it sounds and it'll help a LOT in finding and removing the gremlins from your fuel system... ;)...removing the tank-cover assumes there is no round access cap already in place... ;)...

[C YENSEN]

YEAH I HAVE ALREADY HAD THE TANK COVER OFF, NEEDED TO GET ACCESS TO THE HOSES. I AM GOING TO START SIPHONING THE GAS FROM THE BOAT INTO MY WIFES CAR AS WELL AS MY JEEP.

IF ANYONE CAN HELP ME OUT WHAT AND WHERE IS THE ANTI-SIPHONING VALVE. ???

[macojoe]

I have no ANTI-SIPHONING VALVE But there are ckeck vaules on the tanks were the fuel line connects.
This is if they are still there?? I removed mine when they gave me trouble.
Mine were square block with fitting for the fuel line and threaded into the tank, had a ball in side,

[C YENSEN]

OOOHHHHH!!!!!!

I KNOW WHERE THAT IS! IT IS THE ELBOW COMING OUT OF THE TANK I WILL HAVE TO TAKE THAT OFF AND SEE IF THERE IS A BALL IN THERE. THANKS

DID YOUR TANK HAVE A SOCK LIKE FILTER IN THE TANK ON THE PICK UP LINE??

[Airslot]

My 82' Wellcraft had the sock and I've not had to get into the 87' yet. If you don't want to get into the fuel tank yet, I'd get a 6 gallon job on deck and run the fuel line to your fuel pump. IN fact, I've got one w/ 4 gallons in it and I'm coming to Berlin this afternoon if your reading this. I could drop it off.

Lance

[C YENSEN]

THANKS FOR THE OFFER MAN, BUT I AM GOING TO DRAIN THE TANK, I FIGURE IF THERE IS WATER IN THE TANK OR A CLOGGED FILTER THAN I WILL HAVE TO DRAIN IT ANYWAY.

THANKS AGAIN FOR THE OFFER MAN I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

CHRIS

[Airslot]

I understand draining the tank if you have contaminated fuel, but there is no need to drain the tank to fix anything we have discussed in this thread. The on deck tank would at least eliminate the boats fuel system as a possible issue. You can pull the pick up tube without draining the tank. The pickup is where you'll find the anti-siphon valve and the possible sock filter.

Lance

ps If you change your mind before lunch, call my cell #410-629-9496

[Stinky_Hooker]

Why dont you just go run it on a portable six gallon tank with a SEPARATE new fuel hose and bulb? That will eliminate alot of variables right there. If you dont have one it would be worth the investment to try it. ;D

[mmiklosz]

Stinky is right. Isolate the problem and run a small tank with fresh gas and a new gas line and ball.

[Stinky_Hooker]

Stinky is right.


If I had a dime for....... ;D

[C YENSEN]

WELL I THANK EVERYONE FOR ALL THE ADVICE, I WON;T BE ABLE TO TRY THE SEPERATE TANK UNTIL SATURDAY. DUE TO WEATHER AND IT GETTING DARK AT 6 AND I WORK UNTIL 6.

I AM STILL GOING TO CHECK THE POSSIBLE SOCK FILTER ON THE PICK UP LINE AND THE BALL IN THE PICK UP LINE. I WILL LET EVERYONE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS.

ONCE AGAIN THANKS FOR THE HELP.

AND AIRSLOT, THANKS FOR THE OFFER TO BORROW THE TANK, MY BUDDY WHO LIVES RIGHT DOWN THE STREET HAS ONE I WILL BORROW.

THANKS GUYS ;)

[macojoe]

No socks in mine, but it is a 1975 and may have been removed long before i got the boat.

[Airslot]

OK, if you need a hand and I'm free, I'm there. You've got my cell.

Lance

[C YENSEN]

SO IF THERE IS A SOCK ON THE INTAKE IN THE TANK,

DO I NEED IT OR CAN I JUST GET RID OF IT??

[C YENSEN]

THANKS LANCE I WILL LET YOU KNOW THE PROGRESS ;D

[Airslot]

Being that you have the Racor you don't need the in tank filter.

Lance

[C YENSEN]

RACOR????????

[Airslot]

I thought you had a fuel/water seperator? Racor is just the most common brand.

Lance

[C YENSEN]

YEAH OK, I AM USING A FRAM, JUST NEVER HEARD OF THAT BRAND. THANKS ;D

[C YENSEN]

WELL FELLAS,

I TOOK OFF THE WATER-FUEL SEPERATOR AND DUMPED IT INTO A 2-LITER SODA BOTTLE....ABSOLUTELY NO WATER IN THE SEPERATOR, JUST GAS.

THEN I PULLED THE STEEL PICKUP LINE FROM THE TANK, NO SOCK FILTER AND THE BALL (ANTI-SYPHONING) MOVED FREELY AND DID NOT APPEAR TO BE HUNG UP AT ALL.

THEN I PULLED THE SENDING UNIT. I JACKED THE FRONT OF THE BOAT UP TO MAKE SURE WATER IN THE TANK WOULD SETTLE TO THE BACK. USED A HAND PUMP TO PUMP OUT THE VERY BOTTOM (BACK LOWEST CORNER OF THE TANK.) I PUMPED IT INTO THE SAME EMPTY 2 LITER SODA BOTTLE TILL IT WAS 3/4 FULL. I LET IT SETTLE A FEW MINUTES AND IT APPEARED TO HAVE A THICK OILY SUBSTANCE AT THE BOTTOM. SO THE TWO LITER SODA BOTTLE WAS 3/4 FULL AND THERE WAS 1/4" OF OIL IN THE VERY BOTTOM. WHERE THE HELL DID THAT COME FROM ???

THE GOOD NEWS IS I HAVE DEFINATELY RULED OUT THE POSSIBILITY OF WATER IN THE TANK. ;D

BUT WHAT THE HELL WAS THERE OIL (OR AN OILY SUBSTANCE) DOING IN THE TANK. NOT MUCH, LIKE I SAID ONLY 1/4" IN THE BOTTOM OF A 2 LITER SODA BOTTLE.

SO NOW WHAT DO I TRY ???

[reelapeelin]

I like Stinky's suggestion re running it from a seperate tank...if you have no problem, then you've isolated the problem back to the tank...if you have a problem, then you've eliminated the tank ;)

[C YENSEN]

yeah i am going to run from a seperate tank. got to wait until saturday for my day off. that is the hard part about this, i know my boat is screwed up and i want it fixed now, but with work, and little daylight when i get home, i always have to wait until saturday to take her for a test ride. >:( >:(

[reelapeelin]

Cy...Man, call the boss...tell him you're much too wasted to make it to work...ask how his skanky wife is doin' today...then go out and test the boat!!... ;D...problem SOLVED... 8)...no need to thank me...we're here to help w/any problems related to enjoyment of V20s... ;) ;D...

[macojoe]

Thats just all the crad that goes in the tank. The sluge from old gas and stuff looks like oil.
I had it in my tank also. Removed tanks and cleaned all, reinstalled and good to go,

In your case I think the Seafoam syuff is your best bet to clean it all out,

[C YENSEN]

well my first question is what is a STATOR?? ??? not sure what you are talking about. sorry remember i am a rookie at this. sorry

the second thing is that i thought the oily substance was just crap from over the years. i will add some sea foam.

thanks fellows

[Airslot]

Scrap stinky's post, he's talking about outboards. The more we beat this horse,.....I keep wondering about ignition components. When on the way out they tend to show their symptoms after their warmed up. Hate to throw in more variables but it could be your coil breaking down, and that'd be a good thing cause their cheap.

Lance

[Stinky_Hooker]

Sorry guys, Im an idiot!!! :P

[ericbh1]

I've gotta chip in here, I've blown 3 stators in 8 years on a mariner 100, and when they start getting close to death they'll just crank her over less and less reliably until one day there's not enough power to go. When I've been running with bad stators, they have consistently run fine once you get them to run. Maybe Mariner makes different stators, but that's been my experience.

[C YENSEN]

YOUR NOT AN IDIOT STINKY, I APPRECIATE YOUR 2 CENTS.

THANKS ;D

[gjgomes]

Try changing your coil & purlpe resistance wire that runs from the coil to the back of the choke. Also pull the plate in the distribributor under the point and spray some wd 40 on the springs and clean up any rust to make sure as you twist the pate it springs back and is free working so your spark advance can work.

Don't do the following until you have corrected your problem.

The best thing that I did to my 470 was to do away with the points and put on an electronic conversion kit. She starts with the touch of the key and has held timing for the past 4 seasons.

Good Luck
gjgomes
Try this site, I learned alot about my motor from here.
@ www.boatfix.com

[reelapeelin]

Cy, Ris Early sounds like he's got a good next step for ya...it'd be my next move... ;)...good stuff, Ris...electronic coil would slick-out lotta probs... 8)...

[C YENSEN]

THANKS FOR THE SUGGESTION, THAT AND THE FUEL PUMP WAS MY NEXT STEP. ;D

PLUS I AM RUNNING IT FROM THE SEPERATE TANK ON SATURDAY TO TRY AND ELIMINATE THE FUEL TANK AS A PROBLEM.

RIS EARLY..... IS THE FILTER ON YOUR FUEL PUMP ON THE TOP OR BOTTOM. AND HAVE YOU EVER HAD IT OFF ???

[gjgomes]

Filter is on the bottom, one of the first things I changed when I got he boat.

The motors water pump runs off the cam shaft *and can be pron to leaks at the cam seal, so it is a good idea to change the anti freeze every season.

Set timing 4 degrees BTDC @ lowest rpm you can get, even better to use and advance type timing light and set for 32 degrees @ 3100 rpm. Make sure if you do this the boat is in the water. Running off the muffs *may not supply enough water for cooling.

[gjgomes]

I did not just change the filter I put in A WHOLE NEW FUEL PUMP.

[C YENSEN]

WELL UNFORTUNATELY I HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO SET THE TIMING, I WOULD NOT EVEN KNOW WHERE TO START. I JUST HAVE NEVER HAD TO GO THAT FAR WITH A MOTOR.

AS FAR AS THE FUEL PUMP I WILL FIND OUT SATURDAY WHEN I RUN FROM THE SEPERATE TANK WHERE THE PROBLEM IS

FUEL PUMP BACK OR FUEL PUMP FORWARD

THANKS FOR THE INFO