ois?

[racerx]

been shopping around for a motor. i got a 92 johnson with ois ignition that was submerged and is siezed. was thinking of rebuild but, thought i would look around first.now i am confused. every time i see a 92 ois johnson they want top dollar. wbr has a 90 johnson 200 for $1000, a 96 175 evinrude for $1000, and a 92 175 johnson ois for $2250. all are described as good running engines with good compression. everywhere i look that has a 175 ois wants more than comparable motors. can someone tell me why. hopefully skools will jump in here.

[Skools Out]

This is going to be a long post be prepared to read alot of typing lol Hope this helps.


Due to the differences in this ignition system, troubleshooting can be somewhat difficult if you are not familiar with the design. The other Johnson/Evinrude QuikStart ignitions use stator charge coils and a power coil to provide high voltage and power for the QuikStart and rev limiter circuits. They require a timer base for triggering and use separate magnets for the high voltage and triggering the timer base.

The OIS 2000 optical system uses the stator charge coils to provide high voltage for the firing of the ignition coils and a power coil to provide power for the electronics both inside the power pack and inside the sensor. The other QuickStart models will run the engine without the power coil being connected (of course this will burn out the control circuits inside the power pack).

The OIS 2000 ignition has to have the power coil supplying power in order to operate the QuickStart, S.L.O.W., rev limiter, and fire the coils beyond cranking speed. The optical sensor located on the top is fed power from the power pack and sends crankshaft position, cylinder location and direction of rotation back to the power pack.

The pack is smart enough to know not to fire if the engine is not turning in the right direction. S.L.O.W. functions to reduce the engine RPM to approximately 2,500 when the engine overheats. QuikStart (a 10° timing advance) activates as long as the engine RPM is below 1,100, the engine temperature is below 105 F and the yellow/red wire from the starter solenoid is not feeding 12 volts DC to the power pack all of the time. QuikStart also will activate for five to 10 seconds each time the engine is started regardless of engine temperature.

At cranking speed the voltage from the stator may not be enough to operate the circuits inside the power pack, therefore there is battery voltage supplied from the starter solenoid via the yellow/red striped wire. The extra voltage is needed in order for the optical sensor to operate correctly as low voltage from the battery and/or stator can cause intermittent or no fire at all.

There are a couple of critical items you need to be aware of on these engines. First, the spark plug wires need to be the gray inductive resistor wires - these are not automotive wires. Secondly, the spark plugs should be the factory recommended QL78YC. Use of other spark plugs or wires can cause problems inside the power pack from RFI and MFI noise. CDI Electronics has the spark plug wires available as a set P/N: 931-4921.

A breakthrough at CDI Electronics has allowed the use of microprocessor digital control circuits to handle the timing, QuikStart, S.L.O.W., rev limiter and data logging inside the power pack. This allows the timing to be set using a timing light, remote starter, spark gap tester, piston stop tool and a jumper wire.

With these new digital power packs, you disconnect the port temperature switch/sensor leads and use a jumper wire to short the tan temperature sensor wire to engine ground. Once you have verified the timing pointer using a piston stop tool (or a dial indicator), connect all spark plug wires to a spark gap tester, and connect a remote starter to the engine and a timing light to the No.1 spark plug wire.

When you crank the engine over with the remote starter and check the timing, you will notice the timing is set to approximately 4°- 6° ATDC (after top dead center). By advancing the throttle all the way and rechecking the timing for WOT (wide open throttle), you should see approximately 19° - 20° BTDC (before top dead center). Without this timing feature built into the power pack, you would not be able to easily set the timing for idle or WOT without the Johnson/Evinrude optical diagnostic tool.

Another nice features allowed by the digital circuitry include the ability to compensate for a bad temperature switch, a smoother rev limit, customized rev limiters and special timing curves.

Additional items to be aware of:



Early 150 and 175 HP engines did not have the tension washer on top of the sensor encoder wheel. This washer is necessary to keep the encoder locked in place. If it is not on the engine, you may experience erratic firing of the cylinders or no fire at all. If it is missing, please install the correct washer.

1991 and 1992 engines did not have a shift interrupter switch. This resulted in hard shifting and required a conversion to fix.

The shift interrupter switch killed the fire on the starboard bank of cylinders from 1993 through mid 1990s. By 1998, a change was made for the shift interrupter switch to kill the fire on the port bank.

1991 through late 1990s engines sometimes developed a crack in the water jacket allowing water into the intake at high speed. This typically resulted in #1 cylinder-ingesting water. You can usually see signs of the head looking like it has been steam-cleaned inside the combustion chamber.

1991 and 1992 engines came out with a black-sleeved power pack (P/N 584122) and stator (P/N 584109) and used a P/N 584265 sensor. In 1993 the power packs were changed to a gray sleeve (production) power pack (P/N 584910). The stator was changed to a gray sleeve (P/N 584981) and the sensor was changed to P/N 584914. Engines with ignition problems had a service replacement power pack with a blue sleeve and a replacement sensor installed as a set. The blue-sleeved power pack was only available as a service replacement. The gray-sleeved stator could be used with all of the power packs, but the black-sleeved stator was to be used only with a black-sleeved power pack. The sensor P/N changed to 586343 in the late 1990s.

Some engines do not have the RFI/MFI noise shield between the ignition coils and the power pack. If it is missing, replace it!

The gray inductive spark plug wires replace the black copper spark plug wires that were used on the early 1990s engines.

Originally the spark plugs were the QL82YC, but that recommendation was changed to the QL78YC for improved performance. CDI Electronics furnished tools used by the author in troubleshooting these engines.

DVA Adapter P/N: 511-9773

Fluke Multimeter P/N: 511-88

Piercing Probes P/N: 511-9770

Remote Starter P/N: 511-6996

Spark Gap Tester P/N: 511-9766



No fire at all



Check the kill lanyard and key-switch position.

Verify the engine rotation (The engine needs to be turning in a clockwise direction).

Check the power pack and ignition coil ground wires for corrosion and tightness.

Connect a spark gap tester to all cylinders.

Disconnect the boat side harness and connect a remote starter unit. Check for spark. If the engine has spark, check the boat side harness's black/yellow wire for shorts to ground.

Disconnect the 5-pin connector on the port side of the power pack and see if the spark returns. If it does, use the fluke meter set to ohms and see if the black/yellow wires are shorted to engine ground.

Check the battery voltage on the yellow/red striped wire while cranking the engine. If below 11 volts, charge the battery or check all battery cables.



Remove the sensor wheel and check for damage, especially where the top slots are located. Sometimes the wheels will break out where the windows overlap.

Check the sensor eyes for dirt, grease and the like. If you need to clean it, use denatured alcohol and a Q-tip. Do not use any other cleaning agent because damage to the optical lens will occur.

Disconnect the voltage regulator/rectifier and retest. If the engine now has spark, replace the regulator/rectifier.

Using the piercing probes, check the resistance and DVA voltage on the 6-pin stator connector while connected as follows:

RED LEAD TO: BLACK LEAD TO: RESISTANCE DVA READING
Orange Orange/Black 50-60 OHMS 12V or more
Brown Brown/Yellow 450-600 OHMS 150V or more
Brown/White Brown/Black 450-600 OHMS 150V or more
Note:
Low readings on all checks indicate a possible problem with the flywheel magnets that needs to be checked.

Service note:
It is recommended that liquid neoprene be applied to the areas where the piercing probes were used.

If all the tests so far show good readings, check the DVA output from the power pack on the primary coil wires as follows:

RED LEAD TO: BLACK LEAD TO: DVA READING
Orange/Blue Engine Ground 130 or more
Orange Engine Ground 130 or more
Orange/Green Engine Ground 130 or more

Note:
If the DVA values are below these specifications, the power pack or sensor is likely bad.

Check the DVA voltage on the black/orange and orange/red sensors leads as follows:

RED LEAD TO: BLACK LEAD TO: DVA READING
Orange/Red Engine Ground 12V or more
Black/Orange Engine Ground 12V or more


If an oscilloscope is available, check the white/blue (crank position signal) and white/green (cylinder position signal) sensor wires while connected to the sensor. With the engine cranking over, you should see a square toothed pattern on both wires. The white/blue wire should show one pulse per revolution and the white/green should show seven pulses per revolution of the engine. See chart below.



No spark on one bank of cylinders

Using the piercing probes and DVA adapter, check the resistance and DVA voltage for the bank without spark on the 6-pin stator connector while connected as follows:

Note:
If the power pack has no spark on one bank and the readings are good, replace the power pack.

Disconnect the 5-pin connector on the port side of the power pack and see if the spark returns. If it does, use the fluke meter set to ohms and see if the black/yellow or black/orange wire is shorted to engine ground. Check to see if the shift interrupter switch is located in the circuit where there is no spark.

High-speed miss




If the engine runs fine until you get above 4900 RPM and then starts missing, check the orange to orange/black power coil wires with an oscilloscope (if available) or replace the pack. A breakdown inside the pack could cause RFI noise to activate the rev limiter for no apparent reason.

Using the piercing probes and DVA adapter, check the DVA voltage at the RPM where the problem is occurring while connected as follows:

RED LEAD TO: BLACK LEAD TO: DVA BANK/CYLINDER
Brown Brown/Yellow 150+V Starboard (1-3-5)
Brown/White Brown/Black 150+V Port (2-4-6)

Note:
The readings should rapidly increase as the engine RPM increases and stabilize below 400 volts (voltage exceeding 400 V DVA indicates a bad pack). A sharp drop in voltage right before the miss becomes apparent usually indicates a bad stator charge coil.

Connect an inductive tachometer to the spark plug wires one at a time and compare the readings. If most of the cylinders show the same reading and one or two are different, check the primary wires with the inductive pickup to see if the readings are the same coming out of the power pack. A difference in readings between the primary and secondary coil wires indicates bad ignition wires. No difference indicates a bad power pack.



Will not rev up

Engine will not rev up above idle speed or only has spark as long as the starter solenoid is engaged:

Using the piercing probes and DVA adapter, check the DVA voltage while connected as follows:

RED LEAD TO: BLACK LEAD TO: DVA
Orange Orange/Black 11 - 24V

Note:
The readings should rapidly increase as the engine RPM increases and stabilize below 24 volts (voltage exceeding 24 volts DVA indicates a bad pack). A sharp drop in voltage right before the miss becomes apparent usually indicates a bad stator winding. A sharp drop in voltage when you let off of the starter solenoid indicates a bad power coil on the stator.

Shakes hard

Engine will not rev up above 2500 RPM and shakes hard (S.L.O.W. activated):

Verify the engine is not actually overheating by using a digital pyrometer.

Check the routing of the tan temperature wires, an example of a bad location is shown below. The tan wires need to be located as far as possible away from the spark plug wires.

Disconnect the temperature sensors and see if the engine performs normally. If it does, check both temperature sensors and replace the defective one.

If there is not any indication of a problem at this point, replace the power pack

. Engine stays in QuickStart all of the time

Check the yellow/red wire for 12 volts while the engine is running. You should only see voltage on this wire while the starter solenoid is engaged.


*

[chumbucket]

:ohey Skools. Come up for a breath of air! ;D
Man, you're a virtual wealth of knowledge on them OMC's. Awesome! 8)

[Stinky_Hooker]

Thanks for takin the lightwork off my hands Skools...I was gonna say all that but now I dont have to. ::)

[racerx]

wow, tx bud. but, i am thoroughly confused now. i printed all that out so i might use it one day. all the diagnostics and stuff but i think the reason it wont fire is because it was submerged and is siezed. how well does all that fancy electronics hold up to being submerged in salt water? what i am trying to figure out is should i fix this engine, or just replace it. and if i replace it, is it worth spending the extra $1500 or so on another ois model. if so i would have this one for parts. or i could sell it for parts. you seem to know ur stuff, so i will trust ur opinion on this. just please, give it to me in laymans terms. i got me a mississippi education, and all those big words make my head hurt,lol.

[Bygracealone]

Bueller... Bueller... ;D ;D ;D

Skools, you are hardcore man! I'm so glad you're on this forum.

Here's a question that will further reveal my ignorance. Does the motor I just bought have an OIS ignition?

[Skools Out]

no yours is a Loop Charged motor with 35 AMP charging system and the multi coil pack design

here's the pic of a OIS System

http://i16.ebayimg.com/05/i/07/6a/86/03_1.JPG

[bigshrimpin]

Holy crap that is a nice detailed explaination!!

[shicks007]

oh my


:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P

[Mac_Attack]

Skools * Wow! *Where was I? *Bill Mc *;D,

[Blue_Runner]

Skools - :o

Racer, not trying to be a smarty britches, but I don't know of many electronics that hold up to submersion...well, there was that Dewalt drill I dropped in the lake, fished it out and it still worked beautifully! But I think that was an exception ::)

If I were looking at buying a sumberged, seized motor, I would have to go in assuming all electrical was shot. Double especially if it were salt water submersion.

[Pipe_Dream]

SKOOLS...
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j228/4MyDogs/Misc/bowdown.gif

[C YENSEN]

that right pipe......everybody bow to the boat god :o

[willy]

Thanks for taking care of my light work Skools
Stinky you are a piece of work LMFAO ;D

[Skools Out]

BR the factory and some aftermarket electronics are coated with a rubber coating an if the power was off to the motor or if the rubber coating hasn't broken down allowing water to intrude then the electronics should be ok to go. Personally i wouldn't buy any electronics for it till i rebuilt then test them. they most likely are good.

[Blue_Runner]

Personally i wouldn't buy any electronics for it till i rebuilt then test them. they most likely are good.

I guess I should have clarified myself a little better - I agree with you Skools, I'm just saying I wouldn't go into a deal on a submerged motor thinking all electronics are A-ok. I would assume they are toast and be real happy when they test out ok!

That better?

Blue

[captbent]

DO YOU WRITE BOOKS ON THE SIDE ;D

[racerx]

you guys are great, very helpfull. so i guess i should go ahead and try to fix this one. or should i just ship it to schools and let him send me a bill!lol. ihate it but, no shops around here can get to it for about 150 years. my luck, buy the time im done replacing parts i could have bought another motor. for that matter, by the time i'm done pestering skools with OUR project he'll have a bounty on my head. hooker dude dont live to far from me, and i believe he would do it cheap. aint no balistics on an arrow,lol.

one more thing. if i did sell this thing for parts, what would be a fair price? just ball park. tx

[Skools Out]

show pics of motor all over does the tilt trim work? No book writing here lol.

[bigshrimpin]

http://coastside.ridgeworksinc.com/classifieds/data/12/654image0.jpg

These are for sale on the west coast. They both run and he's asking $325 for both.

[bigshrimpin]

I might pick them up and try to learn a little about 80's SeaDrives.

[racerx]

i got no key so i not sure if tilt trim work. there are two silenoids on top of motor that are broken. think they for tilt trim. not sure. will take some pics tommorrow. been soaking in marvel for about a week. was told i will have to replace bearings on crank. will put on new switch tommorow. its raining out now so i chillin, drinkin baileys and coffee. tx bud. when i take pics tommorow do you want me to pull heads and take pics inside?

[Skools Out]

yeah that would be great to see inside the cylinders and you can check the tilt trim without a key they are always hot as long as you have power.

[racerx]

i hooked battery up and nothing happened. i'll buy a manual at shop and see what the prob is, hopefully. thinkin tilt motor ok. they get wet all the time, right.

[Skools Out]

if you're buying a manual only buy a factory manual here's one

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1992-JOHNSON-ENINRUDE-Service-manual-150-150c-175HP-OMC_W0QQitemZ270000899206QQihZ017QQcategoryZ26453Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://i24.ebayimg.com/05/i/07/84/75/05_1.JPG

[offshorega]

Wow that's alot of good info. Is there a way to tag this for future reference?
Skools IN!
Thankfully, I don't have any of the aforementioned problems, but am thankful someone on this forum is knowledgable about it! THis is an awesome forum.

[racerx]

hey skools, i ordered that manual and posted those pics in the how to section. tx bud

[phester]

RX, I've got the same exact manual, very well written and illustrated

[Skools Out]

best part those manuals will work with most yrs of the same HP motor