My motor puked all over it's self! [Archive]

shicks007

06-17-2006, 07:45 PM

Had a great day on the river with my two boys, my sister and my niece and nephew. We were tubing and just running around for a couple of hours. Well on the way back towards the boat ramp my motor picked up a bad knock, I slowed down and eventually it stalled. I pulled the heads off today to see if I could see anything, I did not see anything that caught my eye.

Somethings going on inside though, I can't rotate the flywheel all the way around, My buddy and I are thinking maybe a rod bearing or something. Whatcha think?

macojoe

06-17-2006, 09:28 PM

That sucks!!

I know all to well that sound of that!! Mine had the ring fail and its all over the cylinder wall! >:(

Skools Out

06-19-2006, 02:37 AM

shouldn't be a rod bearing they are all roller bearings. in an outboard that is.

bootster

06-19-2006, 03:05 AM

I thought you were going to describe what happened to me the first year I had my V20. I have an I/O and having not been familiar with them,didn't winterize it correctly :o. My neighbor and I went to winterize it in Jan. I started it up and Ovaltine shot up about a foot in the center of the engine!

As it turned out,the block had a footlong crack in it,and the rockers had completely separated from the head.

On the way home from work,my neighbor showed me an auto rag with a Chevy straight 6 250 for sale. By the next weekend I had it up and running again.

Paid $650 for the boat and trailer,around $300 to fix the block,and I was back in buisness.

76GMC1500

06-19-2006, 04:18 AM

I/O's are a wonderful thing for many reasons. Primarily, YOU can fix them. Screw the dealer. Secondly, parts is cheap. You can buy a brand new 260hp Chevy 350 for $1200 and spend about $70 to marinize it.

76GMC1500

06-19-2006, 04:22 AM

shouldn't be a rod bearing they are all roller bearings. in an outboard that is.

So are the mains and wrist pin bearings.

The rule of thumb for us 4-stroke guys is that if it frees up as it cools down, it's a cylinder seizure. If it freezes up solid as it cools, it's a spun bearing. Since you don't have babbit bearings, this doesn't really apply to you. It is possible to seize a cylinder and lock it up permantently. But from the sounds of it, you're getting some movement? A rod bearing is possible and likely.

shicks007

06-19-2006, 08:02 AM

Sorry guys, forgot to say what kind of motor it is. It's a 1985 140 hp Evinrude.

I would say it's not in the cylinders, the walls look pretty good and all the pistons move when I rotate the flywheel.

Another thing........now that I have rotated it around a little bit( probably 180 deg.), I can only move it about 45 deg (either way).

pikfish

06-19-2006, 06:06 PM

My question would be, does it move almost normal between solid stops? If so I would quess a broken rod. Anyway from here the powerhead needs to be disassembled. Sorry for your bad luck. Were you using premix fuel?

Skools Out

06-20-2006, 01:44 AM

is yours a late 85 140 or early? late were looper small bore early were cross-flow. Will it rotate a complete circle and will all 4 pistons move with the crank? it could have a broken main crank ring. *

GMC no the only mains that are rollers are the 2 end caps. the mid area between the cylinders are crank rings.glad someone likes an I/O. O/B all the way. Hate the one I/O i have in my 250 Sea Ray.

shicks007

06-20-2006, 07:57 AM

Well, the power head is sitting on my workbench. I'll start pulling it down to see what the problem is and keep you informed. Iv'e never had one apart so if you guys with experience have any tips or pointers, I would apreciate hearing them.

Skools, From the research I did on the motor when I first got it, I came to the conclusion it was a looper. I caould post the numbers if that would help.

Sorry, I should have started this thread under repairs.

Skools Out

06-20-2006, 09:36 AM

are the pistons flat top pistons?
do they look like this?
http://www.sterndrive.info/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/24110-Johnson-Evinrude-Outboard-Pistons.jpg

or do they look like this?
http://www.sterndrive.info/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/24410-Johnson-Outboard-Pistons.jpg

shicks007

06-20-2006, 09:43 AM

Skools,

They are flat top pistons.

BTW I am running my VRO still. My old pump crapped out a couple of years ago and made the call to put on a brand new latest generation fuel pump. If and when I get this motor fixed, I will premix my fuel and monitor the oil consumtion in my oil tank to make sure it's using oil.

For you O/I guys. My buddy and I have a running joke about I/O vs outboard. When he found out I had to get towed the other day he said, " See, you need one of those big engine boxes to keep an eye on your tow vehichle." Nice buddy huh :D

Skools Out

06-20-2006, 10:00 AM

Flat tops are loopers and it should be a 3.500" bore motor. If you have to bore it just bore to a big bore piston. works out great. I've got an 85 i bored to a 1988 up big bore 3.6875" just have to use 1988 up head gaskets.. it basically makes your motor a late model power head. They oiled better than the old 3.500 did. Have you opened the block yet? I have one torn all the way down right now. It's an 1988 Evinrude 140. Has a cracked sleeve. ???

shicks007

06-20-2006, 10:03 AM

Thanks Skools,

I'll let ya'll know what I find, probably tonight. I'm hoping I don't have to go through all that, but then again, I don't have any experience with these things. With that said..............................I aint scared either.

What do you think it would cost me to bore it out and all the other stuff that goes along with a rebuild?

shicks007

06-21-2006, 01:59 AM

I just came in for the night (11:55 pm). I have the carbs and intake off. I still can't spot anything looking up into the crankcase. It's very hard to pinpoint the area that the "noise" is coming from. I could be convinced it's coming from the center bearing on the crank, is this the crank ring you were refering to? I thought at one point it was the top crankshaft bearing, so I pulled that, no such luck >:(

I left my manual at work again today, so I wasn't sure what all had to be removed to seperate the block.

Skools Out

06-21-2006, 02:40 AM

all the block flange bolts and remove the 6 crank case bolts one is allen type on the top right side.

shicks007

06-21-2006, 11:58 PM

I got the crankcase off this afternoon. I found the problem, the lower crank bearing. It looks like the seal in the lower bearing housing was letting water in and corroded the bearing, it was pretty pitted. Anyway the bearing and cage was toast.

Here's my thoughts, what do you think. Replace the bearing and gaskets, run a hone through the cylinders lightly and install a new set of rings to freshi'n up the compression a little. Last compression test was 115, 135, 135 and 125.

Skools Out

06-22-2006, 01:19 AM

here is a good site to get parts from. they have about everything you need. i would lightly ball hone the cylinders and either buy new rings or cleanthe old ones in laquer thinner and clean behind them which you will have to do anyway and put it back together with the old cleanedones. just put the ringsbackon the piston they came from. i did that to a 225 and the compression before was 65 to 70 on most and 25 to 30 others. cleaned and got the carbon outof the ring grooves in the pistons lightly hones with a (ball home required) and put back together checked compression had 90 to 92 on all 6 cylinders. i was right on the books factory specs.

http://www.powerheadkit.com/Looper%20V4%20parts.htm

You will need Gel Seal to seal the crank case back together or can buy 1211 Crank case bond. 1211 is stronger usually used in high hp high compression jet ski race motors but works great on outboards. in place of J/E assembly lub just use Marvil Mystery Oil as assembly lub. will burn away after motor warms up and is great break in oil.

Here's the 1211 Bond avail on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1211-Case-Seal-SILICONE-for-JET-SKI-motor-REBUILD_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ56422QQihZ002QQ itemZ4650208426QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

http://www.superiorjetski.com/ebay/1211sil.jpg

Gel Seal is avail on the link for parts above. Gel Seal has a shelf life. 1211 Bond doesn't

76GMC1500

06-22-2006, 05:14 AM

If your cylinders aren't tapered, there is no reason to bore it. *You may have to take it to a machine shop to verify this. *If you're lucky, they wont even charge you. *A ball hone can be had for >$30 and can be run with a hand drill. *Ball hones are harder to make mistakes with than conventional stone type hones. *Don't cheat yourself and reuse the rings, buy new ones. *A pitted bearing is usually caused by fatigue. *Rolling element bearings have a very finite fatigue life, the rollers are moving around and each time they pass over a surface, it goes into compression and then relaxes. *Eventually, the surface will become brittle and flake away. *This type of wear is called spalling. *When everything is back together, break it in like a new motor.

Aviation Form-a-Gasket works great as a sealant between crankcase halves but is difficult to disassemble. Permatex #2 will work. Permatex MotoSeal for motorcycles will also work great. There are also 2 MotoSeals, get the more permanent one. It's white while the less permanent MotoSeal is gray.

Skools Out

06-27-2006, 01:30 AM

how's the motor going? here's one like yours i have torn down in my garage.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a46/Skools_Out/Motors/Motor-071S.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a46/Skools_Out/Motors/Motor-072S.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a46/Skools_Out/Motors/Motor-070S.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a46/Skools_Out/Motors/Motor-067S.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a46/Skools_Out/Motors/Motor-069S.jpg

shicks007

06-27-2006, 01:37 PM

Hey Skools,

My internet has been down at the house, it should be fixxed tomorrow.

My buddy and I pulled the pistons the other night.......... :o :o :o :P :-X :-/ :'(,the pistons looked pretty ****ty. We have checked out the bore size and measured the pistons. The pistons seemed to be out of round by around .004 inch. The bores have some scoring.

Iv'e been running alot of things through my head. One of which is to purchase a remanufactured powerehead for $1500 or so. Option 2 is to try and find a later model motor. There's a place near here that I called has a 96' 150 hp Evinrude intruder for $2000. I don't know any details about the engine. I believe I would need new controls with this motor also.

Any thoughts?

Skools Out

06-27-2006, 04:09 PM

95 and older use same controls 96 to present use same. Um not sure. If you find a motor for around 1500 you'd been ready to ride. If you find another V4 looper the parts will work as spares for the new motor.

shicks007

06-27-2006, 05:01 PM

If you find a motor for around 1500 you'd been ready to ride. If you find another V4 looper the parts will work as spares for the new motor.

Skools,

Not sure I follow you on the part about another v4 using for spares on the "new motor". Are you saying if I rebuilt mine?

Skools Out

06-27-2006, 05:54 PM

no buy a newer running one and save yours for parts

msbhammer

06-27-2006, 08:19 PM

SCHOOLS:
Man, do you do repairs as a living or is that just your back yard Frankinstein motor lab where you bring dead engines back to Life. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Skools Out

06-28-2006, 01:31 AM

it's a motor grave yard if it has a motor it's in the garage either together and running or in a million pieces. Such a fun Hobby lol. There's probably 25 to 30 total motors and trans in the shop. ranges from drag race motors, to race mod jet ski motors, to outboard and I/O boat motors, and stock car motors.

shicks007

07-05-2006, 08:10 AM

I'm going to try and go look at that 1996 150 HP Evinrude Intruder today after work. This will be just a quick look to see if I'm even interested. Any thoughts on things to look for. If it's in decent shape I'll try to check it over closley.

reelapeelin

07-05-2006, 10:55 AM

Shicks..sorry, it just hit me it was YOUR motor that puked all over itself...haven't been followin' this thread for some reason...little thick here sometimes...

Only thing that worries me about a motor called ''Intruder" is it sounds hopped-up a little which may mean less fuel economy... :-[...

Whadda ya think, Skools ??....

pikfish

07-05-2006, 11:16 AM

Just a note about "out of round pistons". Most Pistons are designed to be out of round when cold.

CT_V-20

07-05-2006, 01:04 PM

Hey shicks, this may be a little late but.. I read an article in this month's Boat U.S. magazine on Ethanol and one of the primary symptoms of an Ethanol problem is knocking. The article pointed out that non-oil injected motors are most susceptible. You may be a victim of the Ethanol attack. :P

shicks007

07-05-2006, 01:34 PM

Thanks for the concern guys, but unless the Ethanol made the lower crankshaft bearing go away from here, I doubt it's related ;D. ??????????????????????
But who the hell knows. It looks like to me the lower shaft seal had been leeking some water into that bearing, there was soome corrosion.

I don't know anything about the "Intruder". The man did say it was strickly used for fresh water (came off a bass boat.

I know I need new controls and a new harness.....what else... I don't know. I'd like to know what it's really going to cost when the swap out is all done.

CT_V-20

07-05-2006, 04:10 PM

You're probably right Schicks. Sounds/looks like you guys know a lot more about motors than me. I was thinking of these lines from the article when I was reading your post: "Ethanol is a solvent and attracts water. These two properties can lead to clogged filters, inadequate lubrication in two-strokes, and low octane conditions that can damage engines. " And, "Above all, pay more attention to your engine(s) this season. Pay attention to a knocking or rough running engine, signs that your gas may have separated. If it has, the tank must be drained or you risk considerable engine damage."

According to the article the low octane causes the knocking and the inadequate lubrication can cause internal engine problems like scoring.

Like boat engines need another reason to create problems!!! >:( Good luck.

shicks007

07-05-2006, 05:16 PM

Like boat engines need another reason to create problems!!! >:( *Good luck.

AMEN to that CT!

shicks007

07-05-2006, 09:08 PM

Well I checked out the motor, looks pretty sweet. I got in touch with the owner, he said he would take $1800 and give me 30 days just in case anything was wrong. He said the only issue he had/has is the starter bendix wanting to hang up on ocassion when the weather is cold. Other than that he said it runs great. He upgraded to a 150 E-TEC :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P

I still need to price out a control box, harness etc.. to see what the final total would be.

The owner of the shop say the "Intruder" really means nothing. Sometimes Evinrude would label the motors for different line of boats.

Can help me ID the info (year, etc..) from the number on the welch plug on the powerhead: G4199671

shicks007

07-05-2006, 09:30 PM

Is this the one I need

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Evinrude-Johnson-outboard-control-box-with-power-trim_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ31283QQihZ001QQite mZ110004744483QQrdZ1

shicks007

07-05-2006, 11:10 PM

Here's some pics.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/8up/evi.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/8up/evi2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/8up/evi3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/8up/evi4.jpg

Skools Out

07-06-2006, 02:57 AM

where's the bottom of the motor pans? what yr is it again. if it's a 95 or older you need the red plug style 96 newer you need the multi harness style. those were fresh water only motors by the way.

shicks007

07-06-2006, 08:00 AM

Hey Skools,

Good to hear from ya. I'm not sure why the lower cowling was off. He had had the power head covered with a plastic bag he said to keep the mud dobbers from getting in there.?? He has the pans in the shop.

I looked at it thinking it was a 96' the owner said he thinks it's a 97', here's the number off the welch plug, can you decode. *G4199671
(EDIT) I think I wrote down the wrong number!

Also, I know this was a fresh water motor. But the way I understand things, my old 140 wasn't meant for the salt water either.

Skools Out

07-06-2006, 08:46 AM

not sure on yr by that but if you get a model number i can tell you more.

Mulv80

07-06-2006, 12:04 PM

Shicks, that motor looks the same internally as my 2000 150 Johnson.

shicks007

07-06-2006, 01:31 PM

Mulv,

What kind of performance numbers are you getting with that thing. What prop are you running also?

This thing has that OIS stuff like was discussed a week ago or so.

Mulv80

07-06-2006, 01:42 PM

I have the OIS system on mine. I feel foolish because I'm not sure what size prop I'm running :-[ I get around 5300 rpm at full throttle and about 43 mph top end trimmed up sucking ducks. The motor is a little thirsty but pops the V-20 right out of the hole and up on plane. I can cruise comfortably at 3800 rpm. I just cleaned the carbs this past weekend and was actually pretty easy to work on. The carb bodies can be removed individually without disturbing the lynk and synch or the throttle bodies.

shicks007

07-06-2006, 10:20 PM

Do ya'll know anything about a plug that would enable me to use my old controls. It souns like a whip that converts from the big red conn. to the multi conn. harness.

Mulv, if things go through with this motor, I would be interested in what prop you do have. The motor doesn't have a prop(the guy used it with his new motor), but the owner of the shop said he could probably round up a used one for me to have.

whopper55

07-06-2006, 10:41 PM

Scott. I have 96 150 enenrude. It looks Identical to this one.. It came out of the Super Sport marine shop up on 17. If you want to come down and lok at mine let me know. 5300 top end, 34-38 cruising, I'm pleased with mine so far. Don't know top speed only have tach.

Chic

whopper55

07-06-2006, 10:43 PM

Ok I forgt I will get Prop size Sat and send

shicks007

07-06-2006, 10:49 PM

Chic,

I wouldn't have recognized your screen name! Aint this some $#@*. Just when I though I was getting this old girl right. I might give you a call this weekend.

Thanks

Skools Out

07-07-2006, 01:48 AM

i've seen the old to new and the new to old adapters on ebay from time to time for around 35 to 40 dollars new.

shicks007

07-14-2006, 08:08 AM

I picked up the new (to me) motor yesterday, it was about a 80 mile round trip trailer. The shop owner helped me bolt it up, all went well. Did a compression check, had from 111-116(psi) on all cylinders. Got it home and finished making all the connections and finnally got to hear that thing run......GREAT DAY IN THE MORNIN' SON!!!!!!!!!!!!. That things sounds good. I'll try to post some pics later today, and hope to give it a good sea trial. I purchased a new all. prop from the guy, ended up going with a 14.5X17.

What is the proper way to adjust the control cables.?

Mulv80

07-14-2006, 10:45 AM

Great news Shicks ;D, Good Luck with the new motor.

macojoe

07-14-2006, 11:23 AM

Great!

What is the proper way to adjust the control cables.?

Till they work!! ;D

really they have a plastic end that is threaded on to a metal rod with a nut, the nut is to keeo it in place after you get it set.

Are you using the same cables?? If so they might be fine were they are.

you want to hear the motor shift into gear and no grind noise once it is in gear!!

If you hear it grinding after you have it in gear adjust one way or the other till itys gone.

Make sure you are going all the way in gear with the shifter!! a slow shift not all the way will not ingage all the way!.

Gas is easier, just look at the linkage and see if it is going all the way, if not the make it longer if it is and not coming all the way back then make it shorter.

Good Luck!@!

Mulv80

07-14-2006, 12:06 PM

MJ, Hangin that motor today? Lookin forward to some pics.

shicks007

07-14-2006, 12:53 PM

Thanks guys,

I am using the same cables. Here's what we did at the house. Without the motor running I spun the prop by hand to see if it engaged in fwd and reverse. It would not engage into reverse so I adjusted it to where it would. It seems like it is adjusted all the way. With the motor running it goes in and out very nice and smooth, I just want to make sure it's engaged all the way, how do you know?

Skools Out

07-14-2006, 01:46 PM

Shicks PM me your Cell number an i'll call you this afternoon after work just i get off usually around 3:30 to 4 pm. I'll try to tell ya how i adjust them.

shicks007

07-15-2006, 09:01 AM

Thanks for the call SKools. I took it out yesterday evening and everything seems to be good to go. Here my numbers (from memory)

WOT (playing with the trim) 5200 rpm @ 42 MPH
Cruising : 3500 @ 29 MPH

I can't get over how many differences there are with this newer motor, sweet. I can actuallt talk to my passaenger at wot. Idles great. The only thing I noticed that didn't seem quite right was, when I gunned it (from any speed) it seemed to run a little flat for a just a second then caught up to itself. Anyway, good first run