Trump or crooked hillary vote for one I will start

[steplift20]

Trump

[Destroyer]

Trump

[scook]

He makes me a little nervous but Trump.

[THEFERMANATOR]

I am giving SERIOUS consideration to voting 3rd party this time.

[Destroyer]

I am giving SERIOUS consideration to voting 3rd party this time.

Ferm, I completely and totally understand your hesitation, BUT.. since none of the third party candidates really have a snowballs chance in hell, voting for one of them is exactly the same as casting a vote for Hillary. Yes, Trump makes me nervous, but look at it this way. If I vote for Hillary I KNOW that she will try and take away my guns and my 2nd amendment rights. She will appoint at least one and possibly up to 4 Supreme Court judges during the next 4 years, and you can bet they will be ultra liberal in any decision they pass down. On the other hand Trump says he's a conservative and will appointing conservative judges. Maybe he's lying, but maybe he's telling the truth. At least I have a fighting chance with Trump. So he gets my vote and my prayers that God will guide him.

[SkunkBoat]

Hillary

[bradford]

.

[Pipe_Dream]

Trump.

[chart]

Trump

[THEFERMANATOR]

.
There is so much more to it too. Theres videos out there less than 3 years old of Trump talking about how great hillary is, how bill was teh best president we've ever had, and how he regarded them as good people. I brought it up to a friend of mine who's gone to Trump, and all he could say was he's better than hillary.

As to a vote for a 3rd party being a vote for hillary, if you're a lefty you say the same thing except that it's a vote for Trump. I used to be this way as well. Do a search here on this forum of my posts, and you'll see back in 08 how I was one of the loudest ones screaming a vote for anybody other than McCain was a vote for obama. I came to realise this is just BS. A vote for ANYBODY is just that, a vote for who YOU believe in. It's everybody being convinced that it's a wasted vote that has got us into the predicament were in now. If you look back into Trump's history, it isn't a pretty picture. 3 years ago he's touting how great hillary is and how good a person she is all the while praising the clintons. He becomes the birther poster child before that questioning the VERY man HE ADMITTEDLY voted for in 08. Before this he's a self proclaimed liberal democrat in favor of abortions, gun control, higher taxes for all espescially the wealthy, and so on and so on. There is so much wrong with him I don't know where to begin, but somehow he has become our "CONSERVATIVE" nominee?

There is so much more I could type out about why I dislike him, but I'll leave it at my biggest fear about trump. What do we believe he will do? Do we REALLY believe he is somehow a completely changed man? Do we believe he will keep to his campaign promises of now, of 6 months ago, a year ago, or will he go back to how he believed for the majority of his life? If he goes back to the Trump of even 5 years ago, what real difference is there between him and hillary? I know many will say, but he didn't get anybody killed, or ignore those in Benghazi leading to what happened to them, or he's never mishandled classified documents? But ask yourself this BEFORE you say that, when has he had the chance to do any of those things? We had MANY candidates who were running this go round who would have DEMOLISHED hillary in LANDSLIDE wins according to the polls, but somehow we got the ONE candidate who consistently loses to her in the polls as our guy.

With all this being said, I may still vote for him. The ONE thing that is driving me to it is quite honestly how BADLY the likes of news outlets like CNN, MSNBC, and the rest of the liberal rags are portraying him and spinning his comments. They are trying so hard to spin the stories, they are actually making me like him. We'll see what happens as I've already been through he!! because I won't support him(been disowned by my dad's brother, most of his kids, and had all kinds of made up crap thrown in my face because I wouldn't "kiss his ring" and fall in line with his beliefs, and quite a bit of other things), so this election will be a tough one for me.

[Destroyer]

There is so much more to it too. Theres videos out there less than 3 years old of Trump talking about how great hillary is, how bill was teh best president we've ever had, and how he regarded them as good people. I brought it up to a friend of mine who's gone to Trump, and all he could say was he's better than hillary.

As to a vote for a 3rd party being a vote for hillary, if you're a lefty you say the same thing except that it's a vote for Trump. I used to be this way as well. Do a search here on this forum of my posts, and you'll see back in 08 how I was one of the loudest ones screaming a vote for anybody other than McCain was a vote for obama. I came to realise this is just BS. A vote for ANYBODY is just that, a vote for who YOU believe in. It's everybody being convinced that it's a wasted vote that has got us into the predicament were in now. If you look back into Trump's history, it isn't a pretty picture. 3 years ago he's touting how great hillary is and how good a person she is all the while praising the clintons. He becomes the birther poster child before that questioning the VERY man HE ADMITTEDLY voted for in 08. Before this he's a self proclaimed liberal democrat in favor of abortions, gun control, higher taxes for all espescially the wealthy, and so on and so on. There is so much wrong with him I don't know where to begin, but somehow he has become our "CONSERVATIVE" nominee?

There is so much more I could type out about why I dislike him, but I'll leave it at my biggest fear about trump. What do we believe he will do? Do we REALLY believe he is somehow a completely changed man? Do we believe he will keep to his campaign promises of now, of 6 months ago, a year ago, or will he go back to how he believed for the majority of his life? If he goes back to the Trump of even 5 years ago, what real difference is there between him and hillary? I know many will say, but he didn't get anybody killed, or ignore those in Benghazi leading to what happened to them, or he's never mishandled classified documents? But ask yourself this BEFORE you say that, when has he had the chance to do any of those things? We had MANY candidates who were running this go round who would have DEMOLISHED hillary in LANDSLIDE wins according to the polls, but somehow we got the ONE candidate who consistently loses to her in the polls as our guy.

With all this being said, I may still vote for him. The ONE thing that is driving me to it is quite honestly how BADLY the likes of news outlets like CNN, MSNBC, and the rest of the liberal rags are portraying him and spinning his comments. They are trying so hard to spin the stories, they are actually making me like him. We'll see what happens as I've already been through he!! because I won't support him(been disowned by my dad's brother, most of his kids, and had all kinds of made up crap thrown in my face because I wouldn't "kiss his ring" and fall in line with his beliefs, and quite a bit of other things), so this election will be a tough one for me.

Okay. As I said in my other post, I completely understand your hesitation. Trump was not my first choice either. If you recall, I was solidly for Cruz. but the same media that is now castigating Trump was singing his praises back in the primary's, because they knew he was the one candidate that HRC might be able to beat. So they sang his praises and we got him as our nominee. Now that he is, they are vilifying him and NOT reporting on HRC's ongoing problems. Anyone that doesn't believe the mainstream media is solidly behind HRC is a fool. It's disgusting actually, how much they fawn over her.

As to your point about Trump not being a true Republican,, yes, you're correct. He is, first and foremost, a businessman. And he conductes most of his business from NYC, which is solidly Democratic. So he HAD TO BE a democrat if he wanted to survive. He plays the game very well, as is evidenced by the huge fortune he has made. I've both worked in NYC, with some very nice people. If you want to avoid being blacklisted and not getting any jobs, you're a Democrat. Period. End of sentence. So 3 years ago he was a Democrat, fawning over the very powerful Clintons, trying to get some project or another approved. Like I said, he was a businessman first, and a politician last. I might also point out another Democrat that saw the light and changed sides... Let's see... now what was his name?..... Oh ya, I remember. President Reagan. So just because you were a dem doesn't mean you can't change and become something great.

I'm truly sorry for anything that this election cycle may have cost you with your family. No family should ever be that split. My sister and brother in law are solidly Dems, and I know they are going to vote for her, but I love them anyways. Look, I'm not asking you to vote Trump for your family, or for any other reason other than he's really a very smart man that we (as a Country) have a *chance* of surviving the next 4 or 8 years with. We already know that if HRC gets in we will have more national debt, we will probably lose our 2nd amendment rights, the sky will fall, and they will take our beer!!!... Are you listening to me????!!!! Seriously though, just vote for the person that you think will hurt our precious Country the least. To me, that person is Trump. Not that I really like him, but because I KNOW, deep down inside, that he's better than crooked Hillary.

[spoggy]

Hillary

[scook]

Ferm - I share your concerns. To your question "What's the difference", the huge difference is that he actually has executive experience - lots of it and seemingly quite successful. I think there's a lot to that. Obama got elected with a resume that wouldn't have qualified him to manage a small gas station and I don't think Hillary has much more executive experience than he did - she certainly hasn't got a minute fraction of Trump's experience. Then, of course there's the lying and the pantsuits.

[SkunkBoat]

:sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::zip:

[THEFERMANATOR]

I will say I stayed up last night to watch the rerun of Hannity's show where they showed Trump's speech last night in Wisconsin. They said it was his 1st speech with a teleprompter, and it was a completely different Trump. You could tell he winged some of it, but with a prompter he actually had direction to his words instead of just bouncing off the walls. And I'll be the 1st to admit how hard it is to just speak without notes and stay on track, so I don'thold that against him. If he had done this from the get go, this would be a different race right now. Hopefully he finds some better writers(the speech last night was to much ethnic pandering for votes imo), but if he keeps that up, he has a real shot at winning.

As to hillary, I would like to hear some HONEST reasons how people could justify voting for her. Were all entitled to our own opinions, but I personnally cannot see how anybody could vote for her with everything thats happenned.

[bradford]

Neither one has ever cut their own grass.

[LESTERUS]

Trunk

[Pipe_Dream]

With all this being said, I may still vote for him. The ONE thing that is driving me to it is quite honestly how BADLY the likes of news outlets like CNN, MSNBC, and the rest of the liberal rags are portraying him and spinning his comments. They are trying so hard to spin the stories, they are actually making me like him.

Part of the reason (and I'll freely admit it's not a sound reason) that I'd like to see Trump win is to watch the media's collective heads explode. They would be completely unhinged.

As I said elsewhere, I don't know what President Trump will actually do, but I DO know exactly what President Clinton will do, and none of it is good for me or my family. NONE of it.

[THEFERMANATOR]

I hope the new people handling Trump and managing his campaign keep it up. I just hop its not to little to late. His speech in Wisconsin, yesterday, and his appearance on Hannity actually sound presidential with direction and purpose whereas before it was like wall, isis, squirrel, crooked hillary, squirrel, taxes, and so on. It was alot of incoherent babble with no direction. If he would have had a teleprompter or even just some notes to keep him on track from the get go, hillary would be in prison right now because she would be in the single digits polling and they would have turned on her.

[Striper80]

Trump

[RWilson2526]

Hillary - Sorry but its "the devil that you know". I am completely intrigued by the idea of Trump coming in on day one with his tough talk and telling China and the like to go F themselves. The only problem is I don't think there is ANY plan for day 2 through 1460 or 4 more years after that for that matter. His over simplification of world politics is frightening and not worth the risk.

I'll wait for the next go around to get status quo politicians out of Washington because for now he ain't it.

[Destroyer]

Hillary - Sorry but its "the devil that you know". I am completely intrigued by the idea of Trump coming in on day one with his tough talk and telling China and the like to go F themselves. The only problem is I don't think there is ANY plan for day 2 through 1460 or 4 more years after that for that matter. His over simplification of world politics is frightening and not worth the risk.

I'll wait for the next go around to get status quo politicians out of Washington because for now he ain't it.


Rob, I completely understand your hesitation about Trump. As I've said many times already, he was not my first choice. (I wanted Cruz).. Anyway, let me just say one thing about him. He's a businessman. He wrote one of the most definitive books (The Art of the Deal) that's every been written about doing business. Say what you want about him being racist, a womanizer, etc. Although I don't believe it I won't debate it. But I will say that I think he's got better business acumen than to tell China or Japan or Mexico or any other country for that matter to go f themselves. I'd much rather trust our Country's future financial matters to someone that actually knows how to negotiate business deals than to someone that's never run a business in their life. Again, I understand your hesitation, but I ask you to please take a second look at him. He's really not the 2 headed monster being portrayed in the mainstream media.

Again, good to see you back here :) Missed you and WIllie and Reel and a few others... :fam: (We need to go fishing).

[charlie_the_tuna]

trump!!!!!!!!!!!

[mawshj]

Both Trump and Hillary have gone on record to make huge changes in our gov. When Trump get to Washington he will try to move us in the right direction but will be opposed by all the existing "more of the sames " so He may move us a little in the good direction. when Hillary gets there she will be helped by all of the more of the sames and will move us quickly and far in the wrong direction,4 more years might be a long time

[Destroyer]

Both Trump and Hillary have gone on record to make huge changes in our gov. When Trump get to Washington he will try to move us in the right direction but will be opposed by all the existing "more of the sames " so He may move us a little in the good direction. when Hillary gets there she will be helped by all of the more of the sames and will move us quickly and far in the wrong direction,4 more years might be a long time

The thing that scares me the hell about HRC is not what *she* will do to our Country, but what will happen as a result of her SCOTUS appointments. Right now they are split 4-4 conservative/liberal. If she gets in she will appoint liberal judges that will tip the balance of power to the liberal way of thinking and we won't be able to stop them. They will "interpret" the constitution rather than follow it. We will get to a place in our Country that I'm not sure we will ever be able to recover from. That's what scares me the most.

[DiverDux]

The thing that scares me the hell about HRC is not what *she* will do to our Country, but what will happen as a result of her SCOTUS appointments. Right now they are split 4-4 conservative/liberal. If she gets in she will appoint liberal judges that will tip the balance of power to the liberal way of thinking and we won't be able to stop them. They will "interpret" the constitution rather than follow it. We will get to a place in our Country that I'm not sure we will ever be able to recover from. That's what scares me the most.

Well said Destroyer-

The Supreme Court appointees that will come about over the course of the next 4-8 years is one of, if not the most important thing to consider when casting a ballot in November.

Take a walk through Arlington National Cemetery, the men and women burried there represent the liberty that we enjoy today. A vote for Hillary or any liberal Democrat for that matter disrespects the sacrifices these brave souls made.

[steplift20]

True they never cut there own grass but the differance is one hired an illegal alien the other hired a American owned company

[SkunkBoat]

Trump hired illegal Polacks and didn't pay them and contracted with lots of hard working American sub contractors (I personally know one of them) and didn't pay them either. They got stiffed but he still kept his helicopter and jet and billionaire lifestyle. He is a piece of crap, always has been, always will be.

[SkunkBoat]

Take a walk through Arlington National Cemetery, the men and women burried there represent the liberty that we enjoy today. A vote for Hillary or any liberal Democrat for that matter disrespects the sacrifices these brave souls made.

And this is bull$!##

How many 10s of thousands of those men voted for Roosevelt?
My father is in a National Cemetery and I will be too someday.
Crap, just crap....

[bradford]

Politics is an old Latin phrase.

Poly meaning "many".

Ticks meaning "small blood sucking organisms".

[steplift20]

Charlie the tuna
I knew there was something that I liked about you
Trump
Trump
Trump

[DiverDux]

And this is bull$!##

How many 10s of thousands of those men voted for Roosevelt?
My father is in a National Cemetery and I will be too someday.
Crap, just crap....

Just to clarify, those headstones symbolize sacrifice and those sacrifices are why we enjoy the liberty afforded us in the Bill of Rights.

Obama, Hillary and their cronies have no respect for our liberty. They wish to rewrite the constitution to fit their thoughts and views. They will do this by stacking the Supreme Court with Justices who emulate their views.

SkunkBoat, while I do not agree with you regarding your political leanings, I respect your thoughts and views, as well as your right to believe them. I also cleary understand your thoughts regarding my views. A popular quote by Eric Hoffer comes to mind... "Rudeness is the weak (person's) immitation of strength." To this, I concur.

[mawshj]

The question is not trump or hrc, they are both self serving as are many politicians. the question is big gov. or small gov. . Do we want more King Obama or more leave us alone Regan

[THEFERMANATOR]

The question is not trump or hrc, they are both self serving as are many politicians. the question is big gov. or small gov. . Do we want more King Obama or more leave us alone Regan

There in lies the problem I have. Up until less than a decade ago, Trump was all about more obama. He's even on video admitting hevoted for obama in 08. So are we to believe the campaign promises of Trump, or his past record? And Trump has publicly admitted he felt Reagan was a poor president and that Clinton was our best(until campaign Trump came about, now he's backpeddling that one).

[SkunkBoat]

Just to clarify, those headstones symbolize sacrifice and those sacrifices are why we enjoy the liberty afforded us in the Bill of Rights.

Obama, Hillary and their cronies have no respect for our liberty. They wish to rewrite the constitution to fit their thoughts and views. They will do this by stacking the Supreme Court with Justices who emulate their views.

SkunkBoat, while I do not agree with you regarding your political leanings, I respect your thoughts and views, as well as your right to believe them. I also cleary understand your thoughts regarding my views. A popular quote by Eric Hoffer comes to mind... "Rudeness is the weak (person's) immitation of strength." To this, I concur.

Slightly less than half of the electorate might agree with your statement about Obama and Hillary. Slightly more than half of the electorate might agree with this change to your statement;
"Trump,Cruz, Ryan, McConnell and their cronies have no respect for our liberty. They wish to rewrite the constitution to fit their thoughts and views. They will do this by stacking the Supreme Court with Justices who emulate their views."


I apologize if I was rude. It was a reaction to the implication that I am somehow disrespectful of the sacrifices of veterans. As a son of a 30 year Navy man and a 6 year sailor myself, I take your comment personally.

The Republican party and/or Trump(whatever he is) and you do not own the sacrifices of veterans, nor patriotism, nor the flag, nor the constitution.

And I'm not saying that the Democrats own them either.

I'm not a wide eyed fan of Hillary. She is an experienced, competent lawyer-politician and my guts hate that.
But face it, that is what Congressmen and Senators and Presidents have to be. They have to have knowledge of the workings of government and connections with enough people and groups and associations and businesses to get things done. Some people think that is the problem with government but that is democracy. People band together to argue for what they want.

Hillary has been under scrutiny for 25 years. There have been numerous multi-year, multi-million dollar special commission fishing expeditions trying to pin one thing or another on her. Say what you will, she kicks *** as a lawyer-politician and she's got HUGE balls to keep coming back for more.
I kinda want a bulldog like that working for me. At least she's not Bernie...

Trump will never hold up to that scrutiny. He has opened up a can of worms and he is going "regret" it.
All he has going for him is an appeal to gut reactions. It might feel good, but burning down your house to kill the rats in the attic just leaves you with no house. His rudeness feels good but...
A popular quote by Eric Hoffer comes to mind... "Rudeness is the weak (person's) immitation of strength." :nut:


I am so tired of this idea that the government is ruining America. "The Government" IS America. There is no America without it. It is full of every kind of American, doing things that at least some Americans want or not doing things that other Americans don't want. It is one giant messy compromise between us all. Been that way for 240 years.

I hear a lot of bad talk about "liberal democrats" and labor unions.
I don't consider myself a liberal democrat and I've never been in a union, but..
I like 40 hr work weeks, overtime, sick days and vacation, 401k, and medical /dental. I like cars with seat belts and airbags and disc brakes and 30 mpg. I like water and air without lead, arsenic and pcb's. I like the EPA (thank you Nixon). I like that my mom gets Social Security and Medicare. I like that my next door neighbor can't raise pigs because of zoning regulations. I like that I can call "the government" to make my neighbor remove the 20' storage container that has been in his driveway for a year and a half. My wife and I own a flower shop. I like that I can get the police to move a jacka$$ selling roses from a van on the side of the road because he doesn't have a vendor permit and a tax id number. I'm glad the north won the Civil War and kept America and Americans together. I hate to think what the world would be if that were not so. I like the end of segregation and Civil Rights Acts of 64 and 68 because they moved us closer to an America that lives by its words. I like the 14th Amendment that applies the US Bill of Rights to all State and local governments.

So yes, I'm going to vote for Democrats because, as screwed up as they are, at least they are trying to do things and succeeding at some of them. They are looking forward not backwards.
Republicans now just want to undo things. "Government regulation is bad. Vote for me and I'll do nothing new and I'll undo things that the people wanted before".

I think America is great NOW. I'm not afraid of Muslims or Mexicans.
I'm not afraid of ISIS or Al Quaida or the IRA or the KKK... The only way to beat terrorism is to be yourself, live by your values and not be terrified.
The only thing that can hurt America is a bunch of Americans who think they are going to save America from "The Government" with small arms and truck bombs.

So I'm done with the Politics thread.:sick:
I hope to see you in the Fishing threads:beer:

[yodaddy]

Trump.

We are totally thoroughly screwed if the marxist Clinton gets in. 56% of the population doesn't trust her, the mainstream media is shilling for her, most polls oversample democrats, and she is hiding from the public because whenever she opens her mouth her poll numbers drop, even with the oversampling.

If there was a fair and open election tomorrow Trump would win hands down.

I heard yesterday that Homeland Security is going to take charge of the election. Does that give anyone the warm fuzzies? Like Joe Stalin said - "it doesn't matter who casts the votes, what matters is who counts the votes". The voting machines are probably already precoded to toss the election to Hillary.

[SkunkBoat]

trump.

We are totally thoroughly screwed if the marxist clinton gets in. 56% of the population doesn't trust her, the mainstream media is shilling for her, most polls oversample democrats, and she is hiding from the public because whenever she opens her mouth her poll numbers drop, even with the oversampling.

If there was a fair and open election tomorrow trump would win hands down.

I heard yesterday that homeland security is going to take charge of the election. Does that give anyone the warm fuzzies? Like joe stalin said - "it doesn't matter who casts the votes, what matters is who counts the votes". The voting machines are probably already precoded to toss the election to hillary.

wow!

[THEFERMANATOR]

wow!

And myself and I'm sure several others said the same to your response above his. It's the nature of politics, people believe what they believe, and thats about it. So you say wow to his post, when I'm betting several here agree with much of it. You have your views, just like each of us has our own differing viewpoints.

[13Echo70271]

As Abraham Lincoln once said.........

[yodaddy]

wow!

Hillary was/is an acolyte of the marxist agitator Saul Alinsky. If you're not familiar with him google his name, and then check out his book "Rules for Radicals". It's a point by point instruction manual for disrupting a society. Alinsky was the subject of her Master's thesis at Wellesley College.

I've followed the Clintons since the 80s. They are in this for power, nothing more, nothing less. Hillary used her position as Secretary of State to funnel $156 million into the Clinton Foundation. This isn't conspiracy whacko ****, it's fact. People paid the foundation money, and they got access to Clinton. Here's an example of their M.O. - a link to a NY Times article about Clinton facilitating sales of uranium to Russia in exchange for money - http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html

[Destroyer]

And I like the fact that The party of Abe Lincoln (Republicans) abolished slavery in America, and I like the fact that the Republicans are the party of freedom, equality and opportunity, while the Democrats are the party of slavery and the party of Jim Crow. http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/08/31/trump-calls-democrats-the-party-of-slavery-and-jim-crow/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Firewire%20-%208%20-31%20-16%20FINAL%20-%20Text%20Ad&utm_term=Firewire I like the fact that the Republicans finally passed the Civil Rights Acts of 64 and 68. (It would have been passed 10 years earlier but was blocked by the Democrats in both Congress and the Senate [Look it up]) I like the fact that I'm of Polish decent, and that I have the right to be offended if someone calls me a Polack, just like other races have the right to be offended if someone calls them a N__ger or a Sp__k, or a K_ke or a W_p. I like the fact that I can be offended by bigotry and I don't have to be quiet about being offended. I like the fact that in America a person can change their political views and go on to be President and do great things for our Country like Reagan did. I like the fact that I was able to serve 12 years in the US Navy, including 15 months doing river patrol in VietNam and was able to live to tell about it. I like the fact that it took a Republican president to get us out of that war. I like the fact that local government (Republican or Democrat), without the need for Federal rules and regs, can make my neighbor mow his lawn or paint his house or not raise pigs or not sell roses across the street from a flower shop. I like the fact that smaller, not larger government is what we really need in this Country. I like the fact that I can remember back into the 50's and 60's when that was a reality.

Look, we can play the "I like" or the "I don't like" game all night long, and at the end of it you are still faced with the same question. Who do you think will serve this great country of ours better as the President. DT or HRC. Both have some good points.. both have some bad. In the end, as I said in an earlier post, it's not which one runs our country, it's which one gets to appoint a judge(S) for life to the supreme court. Do we want a court that follows the Constitution of the US or do we want a court that "interprets" it to mean whatever they feel is correct, even if that interpretation is in direct opposition to what everyone else thinks it means. For me, the choice is clear. I want a court that follows the written rule of law. I do not want 9 unelected officials making up their own interpretation of the Constitution and forcing everyone else to live under their interpretation. For that reason, I'm voting for Trump, simply because I know that with Hillary I have NO chance whatsoever of her appointing a conservative Judge. At least with Trump I figure I have a 50-50 chance.

And frankly, if you actually listen to what Trump is saying on a wide range of subjects, he actually makes sense. And before ANYONE tries to say that Clinton has more experience, may I remind everyone that 8 years ago we elected a first year Senator that had less experience than Trump, to be president of the United States. Hows all the hope and change working out for you guys? We've had a steadily declining economy, more people on food stamps (Over 46 MILLION now, compared to under 30 million when Obama first took office in 2008), people having to work 2 and 3 jobs just to keep their homes, companies leaving the US right and left, higher unemployment and a new "accepted" growth rate of 1% when we used to think that 3-4% was low. We're printing money like it's water, our national debt is now 19 TRILLION dollars, (more than half of it under Obama). Obama has spent more money that all other presidents of the United States COMBINED!!!!... In short, we've had a total bust for the last 8 years and now we have a candidate that is promising more of the same. AND she's vowing to bring in more than 550,000 UNDOCUMENTED, UNVETTED Syrian refugees into our Country if she's elected. No thank you... not on my watch. Trump in 2016.

[Striper80]

And I like the fact that The party of Abe Lincoln (Republicans) abolished slavery in America, and I like the fact that the Republicans are the party of freedom, equality and opportunity, while the Democrats are the party of slavery and the party of Jim Crow. http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/08/31/trump-calls-democrats-the-party-of-slavery-and-jim-crow/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Firewire%20-%208%20-31%20-16%20FINAL%20-%20Text%20Ad&utm_term=Firewire I like the fact that the Republicans finally passed the Civil Rights Acts of 64 and 68. (It would have been passed 10 years earlier but was blocked by the Democrats in both Congress and the Senate [Look it up]) I like the fact that I'm of Polish decent, and that I have the right to be offended if someone calls me a Polack, just like other races have the right to be offended if someone calls them a N__ger or a Sp__k, or a K_ke or a W_p. I like the fact that I can be offended by bigotry and I don't have to be quiet about being offended. I like the fact that in America a person can change their political views and go on to be President and do great things for our Country like Reagan did. I like the fact that I was able to serve 12 years in the US Navy, including 15 months doing river patrol in VietNam and was able to live to tell about it. I like the fact that it took a Republican president to get us out of that war. I like the fact that local government (Republican or Democrat), without the need for Federal rules and regs, can make my neighbor mow his lawn or paint his house or not raise pigs or not sell roses across the street from a flower shop. I like the fact that smaller, not larger government is what we really need in this Country. I like the fact that I can remember back into the 50's and 60's when that was a reality.

Look, we can play the "I like" or the "I don't like" game all night long, and at the end of it you are still faced with the same question. Who do you think will serve this great country of ours better as the President. DT or HRC. Both have some good points.. both have some bad. In the end, as I said in an earlier post, it's not which one runs our country, it's which one gets to appoint a judge(S) for life to the supreme court. Do we want a court that follows the Constitution of the US or do we want a court that "interprets" it to mean whatever they feel is correct, even if that interpretation is in direct opposition to what everyone else thinks it means. For me, the choice is clear. I want a court that follows the written rule of law. I do not want 9 unelected officials making up their own interpretation of the Constitution and forcing everyone else to live under their interpretation. For that reason, I'm voting for Trump, simply because I know that with Hillary I have NO chance whatsoever of her appointing a conservative Judge. At least with Trump I figure I have a 50-50 chance.

And frankly, if you actually listen to what Trump is saying on a wide range of subjects, he actually makes sense. And before ANYONE tries to say that Clinton has more experience, may I remind everyone that 8 years ago we elected a first year Senator that had less experience than Trump, to be president of the United States. Hows all the hope and change working out for you guys? We've had a steadily declining economy, more people on food stamps (Over 46 MILLION now, compared to under 30 million when Obama first took office in 2008), people having to work 2 and 3 jobs just to keep their homes, companies leaving the US right and left, higher unemployment and a new "accepted" growth rate of 1% when we used to think that 3-4% was low. We're printing money like it's water, our national debt is now 19 TRILLION dollars, (more than half of it under Obama). Obama has spent more money that all other presidents of the United States COMBINED!!!!... In short, we've had a total bust for the last 8 years and now we have a candidate that is promising more of the same. AND she's vowing to bring in more than 550,000 UNDOCUMENTED, UNVETTED Syrian refugees into our Country if she's elected. No thank you... not on my watch. Trump in 2016.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

[SkunkBoat]

And I like the fact that The party of Abe Lincoln (Republicans) abolished slavery in America, and I like the fact that the Republicans are the party of freedom, equality and opportunity, while the Democrats are the party of slavery and the party of Jim Crow. http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/08/31/trump-calls-democrats-the-party-of-slavery-and-jim-crow/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Firewire%20-%208%20-31%20-16%20FINAL%20-%20Text%20Ad&utm_term=Firewire I like the fact that the Republicans finally passed the Civil Rights Acts of 64 and 68. (It would have been passed 10 years earlier but was blocked by the Democrats in both Congress and the Senate [Look it up]) I like the fact that I'm of Polish decent, and that I have the right to be offended if someone calls me a Polack, just like other races have the right to be offended if someone calls them a N__ger or a Sp__k, or a K_ke or a W_p. I like the fact that I can be offended by bigotry and I don't have to be quiet about being offended. I like the fact that in America a person can change their political views and go on to be President and do great things for our Country like Reagan did. I like the fact that I was able to serve 12 years in the US Navy, including 15 months doing river patrol in VietNam and was able to live to tell about it. I like the fact that it took a Republican president to get us out of that war. I like the fact that local government (Republican or Democrat), without the need for Federal rules and regs, can make my neighbor mow his lawn or paint his house or not raise pigs or not sell roses across the street from a flower shop. I like the fact that smaller, not larger government is what we really need in this Country. I like the fact that I can remember back into the 50's and 60's when that was a reality.

Look, we can play the "I like" or the "I don't like" game all night long, and at the end of it you are still faced with the same question. Who do you think will serve this great country of ours better as the President. DT or HRC. Both have some good points.. both have some bad. In the end, as I said in an earlier post, it's not which one runs our country, it's which one gets to appoint a judge(S) for life to the supreme court. Do we want a court that follows the Constitution of the US or do we want a court that "interprets" it to mean whatever they feel is correct, even if that interpretation is in direct opposition to what everyone else thinks it means. For me, the choice is clear. I want a court that follows the written rule of law. I do not want 9 unelected officials making up their own interpretation of the Constitution and forcing everyone else to live under their interpretation. For that reason, I'm voting for Trump, simply because I know that with Hillary I have NO chance whatsoever of her appointing a conservative Judge. At least with Trump I figure I have a 50-50 chance.

And frankly, if you actually listen to what Trump is saying on a wide range of subjects, he actually makes sense. And before ANYONE tries to say that Clinton has more experience, may I remind everyone that 8 years ago we elected a first year Senator that had less experience than Trump, to be president of the United States. Hows all the hope and change working out for you guys? We've had a steadily declining economy, more people on food stamps (Over 46 MILLION now, compared to under 30 million when Obama first took office in 2008), people having to work 2 and 3 jobs just to keep their homes, companies leaving the US right and left, higher unemployment and a new "accepted" growth rate of 1% when we used to think that 3-4% was low. We're printing money like it's water, our national debt is now 19 TRILLION dollars, (more than half of it under Obama). Obama has spent more money that all other presidents of the United States COMBINED!!!!... In short, we've had a total bust for the last 8 years and now we have a candidate that is promising more of the same. AND she's vowing to bring in more than 550,000 UNDOCUMENTED, UNVETTED Syrian refugees into our Country if she's elected. No thank you... not on my watch. Trump in 2016.

OK OK, as one Polack to another, I like the response. But lets not pretend that the Republican and Democratic parties of today are the same as the days of slavery and Jim Crow. We both know that flipped after LBJ "betrayed" the south.
I'm not going to rebut anything else(and I could) because I'm too busy reading a fishing magazine and we all seem to have either already heard the other side and made up our mind or don't want to hear it. I only got sucked into this because someone basically said anyone like me is pissing on graves in Arlington.

Hey, I caught two keeper fluke on Monday at the Sea Girt reef...

[bradford]

Y'all can call each other polack, but get offended when others do huh?

[Destroyer]

OK OK, as one Polack to another, I like the response. But lets not pretend that the Republican and Democratic parties of today are the same as the days of slavery and Jim Crow. We both know that flipped after LBJ "betrayed" the south.
I'm not going to rebut anything else(and I could) because I'm too busy reading a fishing magazine and we all seem to have either already heard the other side and made up our mind or don't want to hear it. I only got sucked into this because someone basically said anyone like me is pissing on graves in Arlington.

Hey, I caught two keeper fluke on Monday at the Sea Girt reef...

Well, I disagree with you that they both flipped under LBJ. What did happen is that since LBJ the Democrat party has done a much better job of branding itself as the party of minorities (Due in large part to an overwhelmingly liberal media) But if you look at the actual record during that period the Republican party has still passed much more legislation aimed at bringing equality to minorities than the Democrats.

As for LBJ, I've often thought that LBJ betrayed much more than the south. In fact, Bebe Reboso (LBJ's lifelong friend) swore in his book, published just before his death, that LBJ masterminded Kennedy's assassination. (It's a well known fact that they hated each other and Kennedy was going to get a different running mate for his second term. If that had happened LBJ would have been through politically, and he couldn't allow that.). But I digress. I'm glad that you got the thought(s) behind my response. There's so much at stake in this election that I cannot, in all honesty, ever recall an election with more potential to fundamentally destroy our Country than this one. And no, I'm not being dramatic. Truthfully, if the Democrats had run some other person rather than HRC (or Sanders) I might have been tempted to vote that way instead of Trump. BUT the chance of liberal SCOTUS judges forever destroying the Constitution by shredding accepted law and interpreting it to mean something else is simply a chance I am not willing to take. The danger is just too great.

And I was hoping to go out this weekend and get a few flatties, or at the very least have some fun in the river with Striper shorts, but it's looking more and more like Hermine is going to wipe that idea off the list. I'm jealous of your 2 keepers. Well done.

[Destroyer]

My apologies to anyone I may have misled. Upon further research I found that the national debt hit $19.5 trillion for the first time ever this week, a little more than seven months after it hit the $19 trillion mark. The debt clocked in at $19.51 trillion at the end of Wednesday, the Treasury Department reported Thursday afternoon. Precise debt figures on any given day are released on the following business day. When President Obama took office in early 2009, the total debt was $10.63 trillion, which means it has almost doubled under his watch. I previously posted that more than half was under Obama's term, but in reality it's just a hair under half. It's still more than every other president combined has ever spent, but it's not quite half.

[RWilson2526]

. AND she's vowing to bring in more than 550,000 UNDOCUMENTED, UNVETTED Syrian refugees into our Country if she's elected. No thank you... not on my watch. Trump in 2016.


As long as your not trying to be misleading, lets fact check this tidbit.

[Destroyer]

As long as your not trying to be misleading, lets fact check this tidbit.

Whups, I stand corrected. You're right, it was not 550K additional refugees, it was 550% additional refugees. My apologies.

http://www.cleveland.com/rnc-2016/index.ssf/2016/07/newt_gingrich_correctly_states.html

She would like to up the amount from 10,000 to 65,000 and is calling for them to be properly vetted. That's still too many in my book. Call me a racist, call me overly cautious, but unless you can PROVE to me that none of them are terrorists hiding as refugees (something that ISIS has said they have already done) then no, I don't want them on my shores. Establish safe zones in their own country. Protect them. That's fine and I fully support that. But again, unless you can prove that none of them are terrorists I'm not supporting allowing them into our Country. The primary duty of the Federal Government is to PROTECT IT'S CITIZENS, not be charity givers to the rest of the world.

[steplift20]

Your getting to intense You don't have to go into a big discussion All I'm asking is Trump or that lying crooked hillary who can't remember crap Who had her hench men smash her phone with a hammer And people will still vote for her, I bet if and when she gets locked up in jail some not to bright people would still vote for her lying ***, see you got me stared, let's start again
trump
oR
Crooked lying hillary
The Clinton foundation ,,,,,,,,,,,, Please give me a break ,,,,,,,,,,,, Idiots

[steplift20]

Trump for me

[Striper80]

Guess all us trump voters are a "basket of deplorables".

[Destroyer]

Guess all us trump voters are a "basket of deplorables".

Yup. My problem is I can't figure out which basket I'm in.... Racist, homophobic, xenophobic, bigot, etc. Does she have a "One size fits all" basket that I can fit in?

Oh well, at least I'm not in the thief, crooked politician, pay for access/play, do nothing while her countrymen died, possibly give away my Countries classified secrets, liar, and possibly murderer basket like "some" people I could mention.

[steplift20]

Sorry guys but I just got a job with the Clinton foundation working for hillary and all I need is a 4 pound hammer, must be an easy job

[Destroyer]

:haha:Sorry guys but I just got a job with the Clinton foundation working for hillary and all I need is a 4 pound hammer, must be an easy job:you:

[smokeonthewater]

I absolutely hate trump with every fiber of my body BUT I'd rather cut out my own kidney than vote for Hillary..... She has a proven track record of supporting EVERY thing that is degrading our society and is a thief and scoundrel through and through.... heck I'd vote for Steve-o from jackass before her ....

Soooo yes Hillary IS so bad that I would vote for dip$hit Donald just in the hope of keeping her out!

[Destroyer]

I absolutely hate trump with every fiber of my body BUT I'd rather cut out my own kidney than vote for Hillary..... She has a proven track record of supporting EVERY thing that is degrading our society and is a thief and scoundrel through and through.... heck I'd vote for Steve-o from jackass before her ....

Soooo yes Hillary IS so bad that I would vote for dip$hit Donald just in the hope of keeping her out!

Speaking of Trump, you know, if you look at him in total, he's really not all that bad. Yes, he shoots from the hip, but behind that persona is a very smart, very cunning businessman who, admittedly, has done some not so nice things in his past, but at the same time he also has done some very laudable things. He's employed tens of thousands of people during his career, has built some remarkable buildings, created an empire that to this day employs thousands. Much has been made of his clothing line, of the ties from his clothing line being made in China.... and I guess that's true, he's employing (at best) a hundred or so people over there. But his clothes sell here, and the sales clerk that sold his tie, or the stock clerk that put it out on display, or the cashier that rang up the sale, or the maintenance mechanic that helps keep the store functioning, and every other employee in that store, multiplied by thousands of stores across the nation that sell his merchandise, all benefit in part from the profit of the sale of those ties. So he's helping employ literally thousands of people here while helping employ maybe a hundred over in China. See my point? Not everything that is said that's bad about him really is. You just have to pick thru the negative media and political spin to find the good.

And speaking of the media, as far as they are concerned, if you wonder why or how Trump got nominated, you only have to look at the pattern from the last 3 elections. McCain, Romney and now Trump. The pattern is the same for all three. They (the media) are cherry picking the Republican nominee. They do it by first assessing who they think is the most beatable. (It's no co- incidence that of the 17 Republican candidates, only Trump was considered as the person that Clinton could beat) Once they pick that person they (the media) build up that person during the primary cycle (Just like they did for McCain, and Romney and now Trump... he was everyone's darling). Then, after the primary, after they have the person they want nominated, the one they think they can beat, they publicly tear that person apart, they shred and character assassinate that person. You hear the exact same phrases used by all the networks. (Except FOX) They are not even subtle about it. They say it over and over and over. (Saul Alinsky, in his "Rules for radicals" pointed out how this is accomplished) . Rule 12 states that "Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works". Put another way, if you hear a negative something often enough, and you don't hear anyone disagreeing with it, you will begin to believe it's true. And if all the networks (save FOX) are saying the same thing, then you (the public) don't hear any disagreement and you begin to believe that everything you are hearing is true. (I know that this sounds like conspiracy theory stuff, but not every conspiracy theory is false). It is a fact. You just have to look at the pattern. The Mainstream media is firmly in the Democrats pocket and they are manipulating the agenda and the conversations to try and get their candidate to win the election.

Two different sources for the same rules:
http://www.bestofbeck.com/.../saul-alinskys-12-rules-for...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_for_Radicals

[lathehand]

I don't post much anymore but I just had to put my two cents in here.Trump has my vote.Clinton once lived near where I worked And her and her family were nothing but the local bar flys. She hires people to run Trump down about outsorcing jobs .She has the owner from New England shirt co do a 30 second commercial about being a American company and if you look close you'll see a women sitting at a Brother sewing machine witch is is made in Japan.And another thing . I am a diabetic veteran how uses the Va for all my health care .Just last month They gave me a new pair of special shoes.seems the gov outsources too they came from China.So don't pl$$ on my leg and tell me it's raining

[Striper80]

Still for trump, even after he made some off color remarks over ten years ago. I don't think he left anyone to die.

[steplift20]

Off color, are you kidding ,if they ever recorded me I wouldn't be able to run for dog catcher in Hoboken nj Let me tell you something he is a billionaire When he walked in a room the girls were throwing the selfs at him The women are much worst than us guys But there is nothing wrong with that it's hillary who is the ***** lier She is trying to divert the attention about what he said, really who cares Come on let's build the wall Let's make America great again,

[SkunkBoat]

I hope KellyAnn Conway and all the poster printers and caterers got paid up front cuz he's going to stiff them when he loses cuz he's a d0000shbag

[Destroyer]

I hope KellyAnn Conway and all the poster printers and caterers got paid up front cuz he's going to stiff them when he loses cuz he's a d0000shbag

Oh come on... He employees tens of thousands of people worldwide that get paid every week. This BS that he stiffs people is exactly that... BULL$HIT!!!
Over the years he's started several companies. (More than 20, less than 50) Some have done good, others, like all business ventures, have not done nearly as good. Four (4) of his companies went bankrupt. (Well below the national average of 50% of all new companies that fail) And he, like EVERY OTHER BUSINESSMAN who has a fiduciary responsibility to their stockholders, took advantage of the existing federal tax laws to minimize their losses. He has done NOTHING illegal by doing it. (Unlike HRC) Now understand, I'm NOT saying he's an angel. He's a smart, ruthless businessman that enjoys a highly favorable reputation within the business community for his honesty and shrewd business dealings. But if you really believe that BS about him stiffing everyone, ask yourself this question... If he was stiffing everyone, why is it that there's a long list of contractors that want to build and staff his buildings and projects? From where I sit, it would seem to me that if I knew I was going to get stiffed by him I wouldn't want to do business with him. You're a businessman yourself. Would you EVER do business again with a supplier that you paid to deliver you flowers you ordered and then didn't deliver them? Wouldn't you do everything in your power to to make sure that everyone you knew in your business sphere knew not to trust the guy? Of course you would. And he would be out of business quickly. Now take that same logic and put it on Trump. Don't you think that he'd be out of business if he stiffed everyone? It's nothing more that left wing propaganda and you're believing it. Don't. It's simply not true.
Looking forward to going out fishing with you sometime...:beer:

[SkunkBoat]

Trump Entertainment Resorts and its predecessors have filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection four times, in 1991, following construction of the $1-billion Trump Taj Mahal, and in 2004, 2009 and 2014.


My wife was a marketing manager at 2 different (not Trump)casinos in the '90s. She has friends who worked at Trump casinos, friends who did work for Trump casinos and friends who got screwed by Trump casinos.
People lost money, he kept his. He is not a good businessman, he is a con man. There is no lack of stupid people out there. Like they say on South Park..."one forth of all people are retarded".

Our opinion of him hasn't changed since the '90s. If he walked into my flower shop I'd tell him to get the F out.

[Destroyer]

Trump Entertainment Resorts and its predecessors have filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection four times, in 1991, following construction of the $1-billion Trump Taj Mahal, and in 2004, 2009 and 2014.


My wife was a marketing manager at 2 different (not Trump)casinos in the '90s. She has friends who worked at Trump casinos, friends who did work for Trump casinos and friends who got screwed by Trump casinos.
People lost money, he kept his. He is not a good businessman, he is a con man. There is no lack of stupid people out there. Like they say on South Park..."one forth of all people are retarded".

Our opinion of him hasn't changed since the '90s. If he walked into my flower shop I'd tell him to get the F out.

<sigh> You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. You just repeated what I said, about filing for bankruptcy 4 times. Yet you ignore all the other business ventures where he made money, everyone got paid, and where he employs literally thousands of people that get paid every week. Let's see, how many jobs has Hillary created in her lifetime?... Hmmm... that's an easy one. ZERO!!!! You support a corrupt politician that lies daily to anyone that will listen to her, has no business experience, and yet you think that somehow she will cure all the unemployment in this country? <shakes head> Yes, some people got screwed when Trump filed for bankruptcy. So did hundreds (thousands?) of other people in all the other casinos that have gone belly up in AC over the last decade. People that had absolutely nothing to do with Trump. Believe what you will about him.... but companies go bankrupt every day and people get screwed every day because of it. To single out one person and to say he's somehow lower than pond scum because he did the right thing and declared bankruptcy on a failing business venture and NOT point the finger at every other person in the nation that has done the same thing seems somehow unfair IMHO.

[SkunkBoat]

<sigh> You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. You just repeated what I said, about filing for bankruptcy 4 times. Yet you ignore all the other business ventures where he made money, everyone got paid, and where he employs literally thousands of people that get paid every week. Let's see, how many jobs has Hillary created in her lifetime?... Hmmm... that's an easy one. ZERO!!!! You support a corrupt politician that lies daily to anyone that will listen to her, has no business experience, and yet you think that somehow she will cure all the unemployment in this country? <shakes head> Yes, some people got screwed when Trump filed for bankruptcy. So did hundreds (thousands?) of other people in all the other casinos that have gone belly up in AC over the last decade. People that had absolutely nothing to do with Trump. Believe what you will about him.... but companies go bankrupt every day and people get screwed every day because of it. To single out one person and to say he's somehow lower than pond scum because he did the right thing and declared bankruptcy on a failing business venture and NOT point the finger at every other person in the nation that has done the same thing seems somehow unfair IMHO.

:love:Oh Donald! You're so wonderful....

He always makes sure he keeps his gold plated lifestyle at all cost to anyone else.

He gets his money from the Russian mob in Brooklyn because the banks won't lend to him anymore.


He cries its unfair because he losing.
Oh, they are picking on me.
What a piece of crap. You want that for your President?

He should man up and get some balls like Hillary.:bat:

[THEFERMANATOR]

:love:Oh Donald! You're so wonderful....

He always makes sure he keeps his gold plated lifestyle at all cost to anyone else.

He gets his money from the Russian mob in Brooklyn because the banks won't lend to him anymore.


He cries its unfair because he losing.
Oh, they are picking on me.
What a piece of crap. You want that for your President?

He should man up and get some balls like Hillary.:bat:

Money from the eussian mob? Is that why Soros just bankrolled his chicago project to the of 128 million I believe? I despise him as much as anybody, but come on, be realistic here. And we used to call people who did what it took to be successfull intelligent and wise, now with the victum mentality they're shunned. I don't understand it myself how ANYBODY could support hillary with just 1 or 2 of her KNOWN scandals, Let alone all of them she has. Its easy enough to avoid prosecution if you know where the bodies are buried, but for free thinking people to back and support her blows me away. Her lieing to the fbi isn't a consoiracy theory, its fact according to Comey's testimony. The stealing of furniture and vandalism to the white house when they left before is documented fact. Her treatment of staff is on the record fact. And so on and so on, but she has some really good teflon.

[Pipe_Dream]

Speaking of the Russians and maintaining gold plated lifestyles,

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html?_r=0

[oteps]

trump for me.
Hillary lies. She is anti gun, but now changed her mind just before the election? I would like to keep my guns and the rest of my freedom. What about all the voter fraud info out and the people getting paid to disrupt trump rallies? Gotta be the Russians.

I guess either way we will have a rich old pervert in office. Bill or Donald.

[bradford]

An old C and a douche bag, what a choice.

[bradford]

[QUOTE=SkunkBoat;229819]Oh Donald! You're so wonderful....
because the banks won't lend to him anymore.

[QUOTE]

His yacht tied up in Savannah several years ago at the areas largest fuel distributor's docks. These people sell gasoline to all the gas stations in southeast Georgia and parts of South Carolina. Wanted the boat refueled and they wouldn't accept his check, cash only.

[bradford]

Even the third party candidates suck this time, we're screwed.

[oteps]

I didn't know people used checks anymore other than in the mail for bills. And that's almost gone. I don't think any gas station would take a check for gas in a pickup.