tilt

[Blue_Runner]

I mentioned this in my spun prop thread but it needs its own thread.

Motor= 2004 150hp Yamaha 2 stroke with ~1000 lovingly applied hours

I need help. My tilt quit on me a couple weeks ago. Noticed the little cylinder cap on the right cylinder (takes a spanner or "pin" wrench) was loosened. I do not have a pin wrench so I talked to a local shop, "sure bring it up here and I'll tighten it." So did that today, still would not tilt. Appears to have fluid, he squirted some in there anyway, it came back out. So he says it might be the manual release. Took that off, replace an o-ring on it, put it back on and no change in problem. This all took about 45 minutes, mainly b/c he kept having to walk 50 ft back and forth to his tools (I could've back the boat up further but he told me to stop there). So anyhow, he looks up a price on new tilt assembly ~$2900 for brand new (which I obviously wouldn't pay) and he calls a guy who says he has one for $800 with 30 day warranty. Says it will cost me 2 hours labor to put it on, so another $180 bucks on top of that. I say, well I'd put it on myself (nothing to it). He didn't like that too good, but anyway..... so I ask him how much I owe him and he said $90 which is 1 hr labor.

Maybe it is just me but it didn't feel right to be leaving that place $90 poorer with the motor in virtually the exact same shape as when I got it there. Am I alone in this thought/feeling? All I wanted was the cylinder cap tightenend which is the equivalent to tightening a bolt, basically. I know I owe him somehting but dang!

I'm looking for advice on how I should proceed. Trim works fine. Tilt makes the same sound as it does when working, just will not come up from the vertical position.

Should I really need to replace the entire assembly? Mine "looks" brand new. Or should I be looking to replace seals/trim motor/and/or other? No way I can afford $90 an hour labor, so it would be DIY. Plus I've seen how fast that guy works and I think I could buy the new tilt assembly cheaper!

Help!!!

[Blue_Runner]

Adding things I left off as I think of them.......

There's no obvious leaks in the tilt/trim assembly, I keep the boat in my shop and haven't found any fluid on the floor.

[Blue_Runner]

Ran across this thread a few min. ago. Same year model as mine. I'm checking to see if the same area is leaking on mine? Appears to have happened to more than 1 person.

http://www.2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=547577

[bradford]

I'm betting Spare can get you going.

It's good to find a good honest mechanic who is somewhat understanding. I understand people need to earn a living, but I think he could have done you better than the full hour rate considering the job and not having fixed anything. For the price you could have bought yourself a new tool and been in the same position.

[Destroyer]

I've always thought that I'm paying for the person's skill, education, experience and know-how. At $90 an hour (or more) I don't want a "lets try this" parts replacement specialist. I want someone that can say "Your problem is that little left handed knurled dipsh!t rod" or some such thing. I understand that diagnostics take some time, but to my way of thinking, for what he did, (without fixing or even identifying the problem) he greatly overcharged you. A good mechanic is worth every penny they charge. A poor mechanic is just a sucking leech living off the reputation of the good mechanics who actually earn their money.

[Striper80]

I've always thought that I'm paying for the person's skill, education, experience and know-how. At $90 an hour (or more) I don't want a "lets try this" parts replacement specialist. I want someone that can say "Your problem is that little left handed knurled dipsh!t rod" or some such thing. I understand that diagnostics take some time, but to my way of thinking, for what he did, (without fixing or even identifying the problem) he greatly overcharged you. A good mechanic is worth every penny they charge. A poor mechanic is just a sucking leech living off the reputation of the good mechanics who actually earn their money.

Exactly, if I want to try something, I'll try it myself.

[spareparts]

if the guy was earning $90 an hour and you kept him from earning $90 an hour while he checked your boat out, then you owe him $90. I normally don't charge for quick check outs like that, but I usually get the job to repair it. If I offer some one my time to figure out whats wrong with their boat and they want me to fix it, I don't charge for that time. If they say that they are going a differnt route and ask me what they owe me, I giv them a charge based on how much time I spent. I walk a bit faster than your guy, so I probably would have charged 1 12 pack of Natty Light. If that guy was an employee of the shop, he would have had to stuck with shop policy on charges. If he was the manager or owner, then he sets his own rate. I know people that will not check soemthing on the spot for people, once word gets out, theres a line of people wanting free check outs and nothing gets done.



With that being said, lift the engine to its full highest position, you may have to loosen the release valve. Tighten the relief valve, and fill the resevoir all the way while holding the trim button in the up position. If the motor starts moving up, then keep adding till fluid runs out. I use an old school oil squirter, a mustard bottle works well for adding fluid as well. If the engine doesnt try to trim up, keep filling till its full, put the cap back on and lower the engine with out opening the relief valve, if it still doesn't trim up, open the relife valve and let the engine drop a little, then close the valve again. If it will trim up or down at this point, just keep running it both ways, topping the fluid off. You may have to let it sit and settle down a bit then go back and check the fluid.






If this works, you owe me 1 12 pack of Natty

[bradford]

If this works, you owe me 1 12 pack of Natty


Easily worth a case, more really, and understand about doing stuff for cheap/free, word gets out and soon you're stuck doing everyone a favor. Don't do it and you're an A--hole. It's a thin line in a gray area.

[spareparts]

I finally had to stop taking phone calls between April and September, my voice message says to send me an email to schedule service, I still take 15-20 calls a day

[Blue_Runner]

Well I know I speak for everyone when I say I appreciate your words of advice. You've helped a lot of people, along with other members of the site.

I tried to get it going today. Did the procedure many times. still leaks down quickly and refuses to go up. Will trim up but not tilt up. Must be sucking air from somewhere. Sucks cause my favorite time to fish is nowish until november. Not sure the next step I should take?!?!

[Blue_Runner]

I'll still buy you a box of fatty nattys if I ever make it to Charleston!

[spareparts]

sounds like you still have air in it, trim it all the way up, you may have to help it a bit. Let it sit over night and top off the fluid again. Make sure themanual release is tight and try it again

[Blue_Runner]

Just did that. Think I got a little more in there but no change in behavior. I notice sometimes after trimming up I hear air when I unscrew the fill screw. Then I'm able to add a minute amount of fluid. Other times I hear nothing and fluid comes out when I unscrew the fill screw. Yesterday before I worked on it it would ever so slowly try to move up when tilted in the up position. Ever since then it wont even do that. Looking at the parts diagram looks like there's supposed to be an o-ring on the fill screw - I see none on this one?? I put some thread tape on it to see if it helped but cant see that it did.

[Blue_Runner]

Was making some progress - got it to go up under load (a little). I took pins out to make it easier to up/down between bleeding. Apparently I got too much fluid in there as now I've cracked the freaking reservior!

Anybody want to come over and have a couple beers around the fire while I burn $800 on a used trim assembly? I'm officially done with this thing. Maybe i can part this one out? Freaking Yamaha new parts prices are ridiculous. Thanks to everybody for trying to help!!!!!!

[spareparts]

Give me the model number off the tag on the transom bracket and I'll see if I can find you one cheaper

[Blue_Runner]

Wish I could get my $90 back and give it to Spare!!!!! :fam:

VERY much appreciate that Spare, but I pulled the trigger on eBay for one @ $729 which includes shipping. Should get here next week. The local shop (one that charged me the $90) wanted $800 + tax and there was no way for me to see what it looked like prior to purchase. Had to pass on that.

Will be happy when this ordeal is behind me!

[steplift20]

Hey spare if I run by you can you check out my whole engine and of course don't charge me that said you sound like a great mechanic ,could I be your best friend please My motor is old and I need all the help I can get

[steplift20]

Did you check ebay for the part I had to get a used trim assembly and the only place was ebay paid 400 dollars ans paid about 150 to have it installed worked ok for about six months then had to get a new trim motor, that cost me 800 so I'm into this for about 1500 I wanted to get a new unit from the start but they don't make them any more Thanks mercury Oh and now they don't make the motor anymore from the company that I bought it from so if I have to replace that I hVe to buy from ebay yep the warranty expired 1 year My advice to you is if you can get a new assembly I know it's a lot of money but it will be cheaper in the long run

[Blue_Runner]

Yes, i bought the one from eBay. A new trim assembly with Yamaha pricing is a scoach under 3 grand. My motor might bring $4500 - 5k on a good day. Boats.net prices a new trim unit at $2500 and change. I'm into this one for around $830. I can do this three times for what a new unit costs.......if I don't sell it and hang a 4 stroke on the back. :drool:

[bradford]

I know you already pulled the trigger, Wonder what this guy wants for parts?

http://brunswick.craigslist.org/bpo/5197828713.html

For the Natty drinkers:

https://youtu.be/_00eZtsuJ9M

[Blue_Runner]

Good find Bradford. Hopefully this unit I bought will work as advertised.

[steplift20]

Me personally I think if you here the motor running but it's not raising the engine sounds like air is in the system I would check all the possibilitys

[Blue_Runner]

Step, I agree on checking all possibilities. I spent almost $100 and worked for around 6 hours over a period of 2 - 3 days trying to bleed air out of the system. I had it moving up and down smoothly while not under load and moving up very slowly under load, then it would very quickly leak back down. My downfall was actually getting too much fluid in the reservior which lead to causing the reservior to crack and spew fliud across the shop. A new reservior is $160 ish. Had I not blown the reservior I'd still be working on it. My time and frustration is worth something too..... and those fish aren't going to patiently wait while I fiddle around in the shop pretending to know what I'm doing.

If you are interested I'll sell you my non working unit at a discounted price. If you can get it working good it is worth anywhere between 700 - 1000 on the market. Or you could part it out for even more $$. Like I said it now needs a new reservior (made of cheap plastic). Cosmetically it is a 9 out of 10. It may just need a new manual release valve screw. You can buy a new one for $120 ish and "try" that. You could also buy all new seals and replace them too (if you can get by without wringing bolts off). Anyone else interested in it. Make offer.

I also have a 14.25 x 17 RH stainless prop in like new condition that needs a new hub pressed in. Make offer.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Sounds like the seal on the tilt ram was torn. If it would move without load, but slowly with a load and rapidly leak down, then the only answer was a torn tilt ram seal. It was simply bypassing the fluid internally around the seal and bleeding back off to the reservoir. I found a few on EBAY for $400, but prices range all over the board on those. Also thta looks like the fastrac system, and IIRC they had problems with the drive coupler breaking in the YAMAHA version.

[bradford]

One day these outboard engine and parts manufacturer's will pay for their crimes.

Sometimes I wonder about how much simpler things used to be when everything over 16 feet ran a straight inboard.

[Blue_Runner]

Got the tilt unit today. If it works as good as it looks I'm in good shape. :sly:

I'll put it on tomorrow and if the rain lets up head to the lake Sunday to test the new prop.

[Blue_Runner]

Hit the lake late evening, dreary, drizzly, conditions. Saw 1 other boat. Water low, able to slide under the bridges that normally restrict me. Saw 1 other boat all evening. Fun solo cruise. New Solas 14.25 x 17 prop is perfect. Wasn't sure at first b/c my Garmin would not acquire satellites (had to perform an auto-locate), but once it did I could tell this prop is as good as and probably a touch better than the old prop. I hit 5300 rmps 42 mph without trimming to full capacity. Old prop was a struggle to get much over 5100.

Oh yeah, and the tilt/trim unit works great! Now I'm just waiting for that Saturday/Sunday weather window to get out and pound the bottom critters off the coast.

[bradford]

Good to hear Blue. I have the same prop on my 150 and like it a lot and get about the same numbers.

[Blue_Runner]

Who's ready for round 2 of money burning!?!?

As reported, replacement tilt/trim installed, functioning, test driven with no issues. Then in the shop I notice fluid puddling....uh oh. Blew it off that it might have been from the original unit so I cleaned it up in the morning. That afternoon had another puddle. WTF. Looks like fluid leaking around the trim motor housing? Upon further inspection of the 3 bolts that you can access, 2 aren't even hand tight, the third is backed out 1/8 inch. Tried to tighten one and it won't tighten even slightly (stripped!). Took the other one out to find it was only 1/2 a bolt with epoxy on the end of it - NICE!

Emailed my eBay guy, he says no problem ship it back to me, so this one is going back tomorrow afternoon. Hope I don't have to pay the 2x shipping but better than being out of $740 smackers all together.

Anyway, always heard 3rd time is the charm, so fingers crossed.

p.s. Got me thinking even harder about getting a new 2015 150 4 stroke ~$11,500 on Boats.net. BUT, I need a new(er) truck and buy my youngest daughter a car and my oldest daughter just started 1st year of college, yada yada yada.... Maybe next year, we'll see....got to get this one fixed either way.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Who's ready for round 2 of money burning!?!?

As reported, replacement tilt/trim installed, functioning, test driven with no issues. Then in the shop I notice fluid puddling....uh oh. Blew it off that it might have been from the original unit so I cleaned it up in the morning. That afternoon had another puddle. WTF. Looks like fluid leaking around the trim motor housing? Upon further inspection of the 3 bolts that you can access, 2 aren't even hand tight, the third is backed out 1/8 inch. Tried to tighten one and it won't tighten even slightly (stripped!). Took the other one out to find it was only 1/2 a bolt with epoxy on the end of it - NICE!

Emailed my eBay guy, he says no problem ship it back to me, so this one is going back tomorrow afternoon. Hope I don't have to pay the 2x shipping but better than being out of $740 smackers all together.

Anyway, always heard 3rd time is the charm, so fingers crossed.

p.s. Got me thinking even harder about getting a new 2015 150 4 stroke ~$11,500 on Boats.net. BUT, I need a new(er) truck and buy my youngest daughter a car and my oldest daughter just started 1st year of college, yada yada yada.... Maybe next year, we'll see....got to get this one fixed either way.
I can help you out with a car, selling my wifes G6 because her mom gave her there old CR-V. She likes the CR-V better, so the G6 has to go. Needs a good cleaning, but still a really nice car for the age.

[Blue_Runner]

Thanks Ferm but like her big sis, at the moment she is really wanting a Honda civic. My wife and I both have driven the wheels off of Honda civics in the past. Good little cars but hard to find a late model with ~ 100k or less at a decent price.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Thanks Ferm but like her big sis, at the moment she is really wanting a Honda civic. My wife and I both have driven the wheels off of Honda civics in the past. Good little cars but hard to find a late model with ~ 100k or less at a decent price.

The g6 only has 84k on it. I'm not a HONDA fan, just one of the many reasons I don't like the CR-V.

[bradford]

The g6 only has 84k on it. I'm not a HONDA fan, just one of the many reasons I don't like the CR-V.
I've always liked hondas, but the newer ones in the last ten years I havent been as impressed with. My mom has a newer crv and I dont really like it at all, tons of blind spots for such a little car. My wifes parents drive a 2000 odessey with 275,000 on it and its a great car. I prefer 20 plus year old toyotas and chevy trucks myself.

While you're spending money BR get one of those inline four cylinder 200 yamis. ;)

[Blue_Runner]

My buddy told me the same thing last night Bradford about the 200 yami. Only problem I see is $3500 more....ouch.

[Blue_Runner]

But what about the new in-line 4 175hp?!?! The weight is only about 10 lbs heavier than my current 150 2 stroke. Performance bulletin on these motors are insane.

http://yamahaoutboards.com/sites/default/files/bulletins/ALM_Trophy195_F175XA_2014-04-22_ALM.pdf

In my case I'd essentially cutting my fuel burn directly in half!

Compare to an old bulletin on my engine with comparable hull & weight:
http://yamahaoutboards.com/sites/default/files/bulletins/bulletin_otb_2StrokePerf_HPMidPort_150hp_02-225-CSK-B.pdf


WHERE IS BGREENE????? !!!!!!

[Blue_Runner]

Shipped the leaky tilt-trim unit back to the eBay guy and bought another unit on eBay - this one for $509 free ship and 14 day return policy. Supposed to arrive on or before 10/9.

This is getting old quick.

Gonna try an sell my unit and recoup some money. Lot of good parts there and potential to be fixed and put back in service by someone.

[Blue_Runner]

Got the 2nd trim assembly today, installed, working good. No leaks that I can tell and this one is in really good shape appearance-wise. Fingers crossed.....looks like I may be back in business.

[bradford]

Good to hear BR.