Transom repair

[SkunkBoat]

The snow is gone and the boat is in the driveway. Removed the swim platform, various screws, and loosened the rub-rail. Stared at it for a long time...

Need to borrow a motor jack & build a stand. See link
http://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat-repair-and-restoration/boat-restoration-building-and-hull-repair/272755-building-an-o-b-motor-stand-instructional

Went to Harbor Freight and bought a cheap chinese angle grinder & some wheels and a cheap chinese electric chain saw.

Drank a beer & stared at it some more...

I looked into Arjay pourable... found it as Carbon-Core Ceramic pourable transom. Nearest place I can find to get it is ReinforcedPlastics of Farmingdale NY. $184/bucket & I need three. Long Island...100 miles....Gonna cost me $25 in tolls to get there..

So anyway, the thread is started, there's no going back. The GoPro will be recording the progress. Stay tuned.

[phatdaddy]

are u going to cut the cap at the rod boxes or remove totally? to me. that is what i dread the most.

[SkunkBoat]

cutting the cap at the stern, up to the opening of the hatch, then from the hatch opening down,across the splashwell and up the the hatch on the other side, then from the hatch opening down the stern.

Most of the cut is in the splashwell. Just 2 short straight lines in the transom cap.
By using the hatch openings, I'll have access to glass it back from the inside.

[phatdaddy]

gotcha, take plenty of "how to" videos, i think i am going to have to cross that bridge soon

[SkunkBoat]

Got the motor off the boat & onto my newly constructed motor dolly.

Let the cuttin' & sandin' begin....

[Striper80]

Nice caddy, thanks for the link.

[SkunkBoat]

http://www.wellcraftv20.com/community/picture.php?albumid=159&pictureid=1125
cut lines in blue

http://www.wellcraftv20.com/community/picture.php?albumid=159&pictureid=1126

Cuts made in cap

http://www.wellcraftv20.com/community/picture.php?albumid=159&pictureid=1127

Cap is still stuck to transom inner skin. Trying to figure out a way to free it without cutting too much.

[SkunkBoat]

So, after a couple days of cold rain, I got back to business...

After making my planned cuts, the skin of the motor well was still stuck to the transom inner skin. I started with a very thin pry bar and worked my way up, separating the skins which were cemented together. I worked slow & steady so as not to damage the skins.

After it popped loose, I had another problem.
I tried for about an hour to wiggle the entire piece out but could not do it.
I ended up cutting one corner of the piece off to get some wiggle room and she came right out.

I was surprised to see that the Transom is not one piece all the way across. There are three sections; 2 angle in from the sides and 1 straight piece in the center where the motor mounts. In the pictures you can clearly see the separation and there is even glass between the pieces.

The straight piece is in very good shape and I can say with 100% certainty that the motor was not in eminent danger of falling off. But the angled pieces were wet and black. I'll be removing the wood and inner skin, re-attaching the CLEAN skin to make a hollow space to pour the Carbon-Core.

I'm posting some pix just to wet your appetite but I am also shooting video and will post a youtube link when I finish.

[Striper80]

What's your plan for finishing the cuts? Gelcoat?

[SkunkBoat]

I'll be glassing and painting inside the splash well.
I'm hoping to do the structural glassing from the inside, since I have access to the inside of the cuts through hatches.

For the very visible cuts in the stern of the cap, if I can get away with it, I'm going to try and just fill the outside line with Marine Tex. If so, I don't have to paint the entire cap.

[phatdaddy]

whose amputated bloody finger is that in the second pic?

[smokeonthewater]

whose amputated bloody finger is that in the second pic?

No sh!t ... WTF? over

[Striper80]

I'll be glassing and painting inside the splash well.
I'm hoping to do the structural glassing from the inside, since I have access to the inside of the cuts through hatches.

For the very visible cuts in the stern of the cap, if I can get away with it, I'm going to try and just fill the outside line with Marine Tex. If so, I don't have to paint the entire cap.

I'm up in the air on this as well. I was hoping you were going to say gelcoat and you had a place to purchase it locally already tinted. I've messed around trying to tint gelcoat to match my Grady and its been a royal pain, and I do it all the time with cars.

[SkunkBoat]

For anyone interested in how they built these transoms...

Yo can see the flat center where the motor goes is separated by glass from the angled sides. The sides are multiple pieces. You can see 4 vertical pieces (3/4" ply)on each side. They cover 2 horizontal 3/4" layers on each side.

It appears that they built the hull with a full transom and then cut the notch for the motor. Its a shame they didn't glass over the cuts. You just gotta wonder what bean counter decided that was a good idea.

[phatdaddy]

same on who told them not to glass the drain holes in the stringers

[smokeonthewater]

you gonna explain the finger or what?

[SkunkBoat]

you gonna explain the finger or what?

rubber finger...my daughter was playing a joke.:nut:

[smokeonthewater]

:P

Lol

[Striper80]

For anyone interested in how they built these transoms...

Yo can see the flat center where the motor goes is separated by glass from the angled sides. The sides are multiple pieces. You can see 4 vertical pieces (3/4" ply)on each side. They cover 2 horizontal 3/4" layers on each side.

It appears that they built the hull with a full transom and then cut the notch for the motor. Its a shame they didn't glass over the cuts. You just gotta wonder what bean counter decided that was a good idea.

Same thing on my Grady. I guess it was just par for the course back then.

[Redloon]

The first picture (above the bloody finger picture) looks like a lot of the structural integrity of the splash well and top cap has been cut away.

I saw where you had a plan to repair it:
"I'm hoping to do the structural glassing from the inside, since I have access to the inside of the cuts through hatches."

I'm repairing the transom of my latest project, a Glastron HPV-175, from the inside. I've removed the gas tank and rotten wood and am basically laying on the floor of the boat working with outstretched arms and in cramped quarters.

Good luck on working thru the hatches on yours.

[SkunkBoat]

yesterday was slow going. Tried to remove the remains of the wood from the edges using the auger bit and a tiny flat bar. Wasted most of a day before making the move to the chain saw. I had bought a 14" electric at Harbor Freight (under $50) just in case but I was kind of afraid to try it.

GREATEST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD!!!!!!:party:

Of course, you do have to be careful (said the guy using a chain saw for an unintended purpose).

Starboard side was super easy because of the angle. Port side got pretty awkward toward the top because you had to be sort of upside-down. Still way faster than my other method. You would be surprised how the side of the chain rides along the fiberglass.

[bradford]

Sweet!

[SkunkBoat]

OK! Poured the transom today!

Working on a video of the full project but here are some pics.

Had a problem but turned out ok.

In pics, watch the drain hole on the stringer. There were small holes between the transom & the bottoms of the stringers (plural) that I did not forsee.

Luckily paper towels stopped it up quick. Only lost about a pint into the bilge area.

2 buckets (10 Gal) reached to about 3 inches below the transom cutout.

It cooked for a couple hours. Solid as a rock now.

I will glass over the cutout and pour the rest tomorrow.

[bradford]

Looking forward to the video.

[Striper80]

Looking good. I'm getting ready to cut into mine in a few weeks.

[captpete13]

Looking good. Are you coming back to Garden State when it's all back together?

[bgreene]

Good for you - doing it yourself, likely learned a lot, saved $$ and will be proud of the job.

[SkunkBoat]

Looking good. Are you coming back to Garden State when it's all back together?

yes, paid for the slip already so I would be motivated!

[SkunkBoat]

So! A question about the hardness of cured ceramic compound has come up from another guy on the forum who just poured a transom also, saying
"it is supposed to be as hard as a rock and you can’t drive a nail into it”.
His is not. Mine is not.

Now I figured that, as a core material, it would not be that hard.
There is no official info about it on Carbon-Core's site or Arjay's site

I have a hockey puck shaped piece that I made in a measuring cup during my pour.
It is dry. Not tacky.
It seems solid to me but it can be easily screwed into, easily drilled, and while I can’t get a finish nail into it, a cement shingle nail goes in readily. It does not split or chip at the nail hole.
The edges can be shaved and the shavings hold together somewhat.
I drilled the drain hole in the transom with a 1 inch spade bit and it was like smooth fine grained wood.
It is not brittle and it certainly is not “hard as a rock”.

The transom itself is solid, no flex with my 200 lbs jumping on it.
It got really hot so it definitely kicked and it is not tacky.

Before I glass everything back together and hang a 429 lb motor on it, can anyone with first hand experience set my mind at ease (hopefully) or tell me not to put the motor on without more life insurance.
http://www.wellcraftv20.com/community/picture.php?albumid=159&pictureid=1161

[bgreene]

Suggestions......

1. Put your question on the Hull Truth web site - likely get fast, experienced feedback.

2. Call the product mfg. and ask about it.

[never satisfied]

Ok,
Heard back from Arjay.. First I want to say how grateful I am they took my same issue with great importance
Second by the time they received my sample it had fully cured along with the sample I have on my desk. They said it was exactly what you would expect with the material. I am waiting another week to hang my engine but I feel so much better knowing, that they said it was good

John

[SkunkBoat]

Yes, I feel better too.
...back to work!!!!

Now I'm adding a layer of woven with epoxy to cover the repaired inside skin.

I have some new deck drains, scuppers, flush rodholders and flush cleats to add before I glass the motorwell back in.

Raining like hell though...

[SkunkBoat]

Since I have clear access with the back cap off...

Added the new rodholders and flush cleats.
I wanted some 30 deg rodholders angled out 90deg. There is no way to get them in gunnels because they are too narrow.
I found these from Gem-Lux. They don't have screw holes so they are only 3.5 inch on the diagonal instead of normal 4.5 inch.

Put the rodholders right over the old holes for the cleats.

Thought they would clear the tubs in the transom hatches but they don't. 15 deg holders would clear or angling them out 45 instead of 90 would work. There no changing your mind...once you cut an angled hole thats it.

so now I have to figure out what to replace the tubs with. Only use them to hold boat soap & hand cleaner I think I'll tab in some rails to inside transom and the cap wall to mount a shelf. Thought about mounting a bucket in there but it would never come out once the cap is on.

If I ditch the tubs I'll post them here cause people are always looking for them.

Cleats went in easy. I like them. Don't use the stern cleats much since I clip to transom u-bolts.


solid week of rain has me behind on the project and just not enough time.

[Striper80]

Can you notch or make the tub smaller so it clears the rod holder?

[SkunkBoat]

yes, thats one possibility we've discussed. The tubs are small to begin with so cutting it makes it hold almost nothing
Having a rodholder that points out is way more useful than the tub.

I was thinking of mounting a bucket in there. It wouldn't ever come out but it could hold a lot of stuff and I could reach in to get it

you know, at one point I was trying to design a livewell into that space but I just don't have the time for that now.

[bradford]

I've thought about cutting access hatches into the face of the transom gunnel above the deck drains to gain better access to that area. Might be something to consider to make the space more useful for storage etc?

[SkunkBoat]

Well, we left off with me deciding whether to escalate this project to a cap-off full paint restoration or just slap it back together and go fishing...

Today we started slapping it back together.

Here are some pictures pulled from video.(I will post a complete transom -pour video when I'm done.

Next step is glassing the cuts from the inside and glasssing over the lip of the transom.

Don't expect to see a pretty paint job when complete. Gonna get her fishing for a few months while I PLAN out a full resto- and secure a large garage space for winter work.

[Blue_Runner]

Good job Skunk....looking forward to you getting back out there.

[SkunkBoat]

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j345/skunkboat/GOPR0072_zpssvndamxl.jpg (http://s1081.photobucket.com/user/skunkboat/media/GOPR0072_zpssvndamxl.jpg.html)http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j345/skunkboat/GOPR0194_zpsrxv6dvut.jpg (http://s1081.photobucket.com/user/skunkboat/media/GOPR0194_zpsrxv6dvut.jpg.html)
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j345/skunkboat/GOPR0193_zpsfqueucfc.jpg (http://s1081.photobucket.com/user/skunkboat/media/GOPR0193_zpsfqueucfc.jpg.html)

[SkunkBoat]

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j345/skunkboat/GOPR0182_zpszmezich9.jpg (http://s1081.photobucket.com/user/skunkboat/media/GOPR0182_zpszmezich9.jpg.html)

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j345/skunkboat/GOPR0211_zpsvq6uurtl.jpg (http://s1081.photobucket.com/user/skunkboat/media/GOPR0211_zpsvq6uurtl.jpg.html)

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j345/skunkboat/G0010213_zpszkshagyi.jpg (http://s1081.photobucket.com/user/skunkboat/media/G0010213_zpszkshagyi.jpg.html)


http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j345/skunkboat/CAM00334_zpswhbkxot1.jpg (http://s1081.photobucket.com/user/skunkboat/media/CAM00334_zpswhbkxot1.jpg.html)

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j345/skunkboat/CAM00335_zps4yy8djmq.jpg (http://s1081.photobucket.com/user/skunkboat/media/CAM00335_zps4yy8djmq.jpg.html)

[captpete13]

Looking good. You should be back in the water soon.

[SkunkBoat]

I hope my slip is still empty???

If not next sunday then labor day weekend.

[bradford]

Coming along nicely. I plan to move my deck drains up higher like yours as soon as I finish a couple other projects.

Your tent pics made me think of E.T.

[captpete13]

I hope my slip is still empty???

If not next sunday then labor day weekend.

I'm pretty sure it's empty. I would go check for you but I have this week off. Hope to see you soon.

[bgreene]

Looks strong enough for a Yami 300 4 stroke......

[SkunkBoat]

Motor is on.
2 bolts were bad.
Bought 1/2" x 4" x13 thread SS bolts & Nylock nuts. The thread is coarser than what is being replaced. They are going in the bottom holes.
Any good reason to get "factory" bolts?

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j345/skunkboat/GOPR0231_zpse1mhtqtt.jpg (http://s1081.photobucket.com/user/skunkboat/media/GOPR0231_zpse1mhtqtt.jpg.html)

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j345/skunkboat/GOPR0236_zpspca8bj36.jpg (http://s1081.photobucket.com/user/skunkboat/media/GOPR0236_zpspca8bj36.jpg.html)

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j345/skunkboat/CAM00344_zpsvhs3zocx.jpg (http://s1081.photobucket.com/user/skunkboat/media/CAM00344_zpsvhs3zocx.jpg.html)


Motor/Battery wire had a bulge in it...glad I found it now.
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j345/skunkboat/CAM00341_zpsrpauoafy.jpg (http://s1081.photobucket.com/user/skunkboat/media/CAM00341_zpsrpauoafy.jpg.html)

Working on wiring some new Bilge pumps, led lights & new switches.
In full press to get launched this weekend.

[phatdaddy]

i've always heard finer threads=more hold.

i've got couple or extra ones that fit a 150 merc, if not in a big hurry, i'll mail em to you.

edit: never mind, just noticed the weekend target date.

let me know anyhow

[Kracker Jack]

I have 4 factory suzuki fine thread bolts i could send ya if you still need them

[SkunkBoat]

I have 4 factory suzuki fine thread bolts i could send ya if you still need them

i've got couple or extra ones that fit a 150 merc, if not in a big hurry, i'll mail em to you.


Thanks for the offers but I'll go with what I have and maybe change them out next season when I have time.

Kracker, I have a Service Manual pdf for the DF140. If you send me a PM, I can email you a link to download it from my google drive.

I'm in the process of rewiring the entire switch panel. found lots of crappy wire and crimps. then found corrosion in the fuse panel....off to West Marine for a new one.

Had my old bilge pump all connected up with new wire & crimps & heat shrink. tested it, it ran 4 seconds and jammed. Took it out of the plastic base to check it out, snapped off one of the retainer clips in the process, didn't find anything jamming it, spun it by hand, tested it, it worked, but the base clip is broken and I don't trust it so Another trip to West Marine. Cut out all my nice wiring and wired in a new bilge pump( actually a second new bilge pump because I had already mounted a new one in the forward bilge).

I'm adding leds to the gunnels and cabin and an underwater led in the transom drain plug...very cool! Of course, they all needed switches...

[Destroyer]

Motor is on.
2 bolts were bad.
Bought 1/2" x 4" x13 thread SS bolts & Nylock nuts. The thread is coarser than what is being replaced. They are going in the bottom holes.
Any good reason to get "factory" bolts?

Coarse Threads

Coarse threads are more durable and have greater resistance to stripping and cross-threading. The height of each thread is greater than the corresponding fine thread so there is more material between each thread making flank engagement greater.

Coarse threads are less susceptible to being nicked or damaged, so they do not have to be ***8220;handled with care***8221; as much as fine threads. A nick to a fine thread can cause more of a problem proportionally due to the shallowness of the thread, e.g. gaging or assembly.

Coarse threaded fasteners install much faster than fine threaded fasteners. A ½-13 bolt assembles in 65% of the time it would take to assemble a ½-20 bolt. The ½-20 bolt advances one inch in 20 revolutions, while the ½-13 bolt advances one inch in only 13 revolutions.

Coarse threads are not affected by plating buildup as much as fine threads. The same amount of plating on a coarse thread would use up a greater amount of the plating allowance on a fine thread. Fine threads experience more gaging and assembly problems due to plating buildup than coarse threads, as there is less material between each thread flank.

When using CoilThread Locking Inserts, or other stainless steel threaded fasteners, coarse threads are much less likely to experience galling than fine threads. Fine threads have more rotations as we discussed previously and this coupled with the closer pitch diameter fits of fine threads increases the tendency for fine threads to experience thread galling.

Fine Threads

Fine threaded bolts are stronger than the corresponding coarse threaded bolts of the same hardness. This is in both tension and shear due to the fine threaded bolts having a slightly larger tensile stress area and minor diameter.

Fine threads have less tendency to loosen under vibration due to their having a smaller helix angle than coarse threads. Fine thread Locking Insert grip coils are more flexible than coarse thread insert corresponding size grip coils, and are less likely to take a set under vibration conditions.

Fine threads because of their finer pitch allow for finer adjustments in those applications that need this characteristic.

Fine threads can be more easily tapped into difficult to tap materials, and thin walled sections.

Fine threads require less tightening torque to develop equivalent preloads to the corresponding coarse thread bolt sizes.

Summary

Normally a coarse thread is specified for most industrial applications unless there is a convincing reason not to do so. Military and aerospace applications generally use coarse threads on sizes 8-32 and smaller. On metric fasteners, generally the coarse sizes are the most commonly used with the finer pitches being less readily available.

[SkunkBoat]

well, did not launch yet but motor is hooked up and running. Dash switches/fuse panel /wiring all set. I need to clean it up and get my stuff back in and organized.

Had a very hard time priming the fuel line after being all disassembled. wasted an hour squeezing that bulb every which way. Long story short, the problem was with the fuel line that is part of the primer bulb(it was a Moeller pre-made one, couple years old).
The tubing has 3 layers (grey outside/black middle/clear inside) The inside lining of the tubing was coming loose and when I pushed the tubing on a fitting, it pushed in and partially blocked the tubing. (I guess I need to take a picture.)

Another problem I'm dealing with is the steering shaft of the motor (the one the motor pivots on, not the cable). I greased the fitting and some water came out the top & bottom but then it bound up. No grease coming out the ends. Got very hard to steer. I released the pressure on the grease by removing the zerk, almost got it in the eye!!! Steers better but not great.

Service manual shows removing the steering shaft as the last step in disassemlbing the entire motor..

I have to look at it some more. I don't want to remove the motor from the transom. maybe I can cheat and take up the weight of the motor on a lift
then remove a few bolts and C clip and lift the whole thing right out of the tilt housing?

I'm sure my brother will say "spray a whole can of WD40 in the zerk hole ...!"

[SkunkBoat]

Launched and ready for fishing tomorrow.:sun::sun::sun::sun:

I got my baby back!!!!!

[captpete13]

Way to go skunk! The boat looks good sitting in the slip. Still some time left for fluke and then stripers.

[bradford]

Great news!!!!

Good job Skunk!!

[Blue_Runner]

Glad you made it back on the water dude! Catchemup!

[sshyers]

I hit a sandbar and my motor also his and popped up. My top 2 motor bracket bolts got slightly pulled through the transom and cracked the fiber glass.

Does anyone have an idea on how much this might cost to get repaired by a boat marine mechanic?

Trying to decide if I should just start looking for another haul or not.

[bradford]

I hit a sandbar and my motor also his and popped up. My top 2 motor bracket bolts got slightly pulled through the transom and cracked the fiber glass.

Does anyone have an idea on how much this might cost to get repaired by a boat marine mechanic?

Trying to decide if I should just start looking for another haul or not.


What kind of boat and year? Any pictures of the damage?

[SkunkBoat]

several thousand$$$$$ to do a complete transom.

If its just the bolts pullled in a little, you might get away with some filler and a transom saver(google transom saver).

hard to say without seeing it...

[SkunkBoat]

Transom Rebuild video-part1 Teardown
https://youtu.be/EEz94NbKCh0


Transom Rebuild video-part2 Pour and glass
https://youtu.be/Oe_ZmPOUCNc

[captpete13]

Awesome videos. Your transom really turned out great. Looks solid.

[bradford]

Great video Skunk and good descriptions for the newbies and scaredy cats.

I wish I could run my V as much as you and Phatdaddy.