Opinions wanted

[RidgeRunner]

Let me apologize for the long winded post as usual. Bold cuts to the chase.. Here is the deal- I traded in my used 90 hp Johnson outboard in exchange for some rigging labor on my repowered skiff a few months back.
The motor was still running, I had just been 40 miles round trip to my favorite fishing hole before putting the boat on the trailer and bringing it to the dealer for the repower. I am very realistic, The motor was rough looking, had considerable corrosion issues and it was just used up IMO.
I was not looking to hang someone out on a bad deal. If anyone knows me they would know I would sooner give it away than charge you a penny more than I know it to be worth..
This past weekend, the dealer tells me that the motor was low on compression and he would be scared to sell it.
To Be Clear: I am NOT DOUBTING WHAT MY DEALER IS TELLING ME. THE MOTOR IS LOW ON COMPRESSION. It is a POS. Assume it to have destroyed itself. NOW--

Question(s):
1.Do I have an obligation to my dealer to ante up a little cash to ease the pain on the old Johnson turning out to have one or both feet in the grave? He is asking for nothing. I feel bad about the motor, bad about him not turning into green and worse because he has struggled and I know it..
2.What is the labor for rigging a motor normally run? I was thinking he could get $500 for the old motor, for parts, pieces, prop, etc.
Maybe split the difference? I know he paid his Merc man at least a half a day to do the rigging. It was and is a nice job.

[smokeonthewater]

If you did not misrepresent the motor or make any guarantee then you owe him nothing...

IF that is the case AND you choose to give him anything it would be an act of charity.

If ANYONE should have enough sense to compression test an old motor BEFORE buying the dealer should. Sounds to me like he gambled. Maybe a reason he has struggled.

I've seen a few occasions where a dealer assumes they are getting one over on a trade in (ie buyer doesn't know what they have) only to get upset when they realize they are getting junk just like the buyer said.

That said..... I suppose that IF you choose to help him out you could give him some cash and take the motor back n part it yourself.... It's admirable that you care.... Not many do anymore.

You HAVE de carbed it right... If not compression MIGHT come back.

[RidgeRunner]

You HAVE de carbed it right... If not compression MIGHT come back.

No. Not decarbed within the past year. Compression numbers I don't know, just that one was off by 20%.. I assume the 3 good ones are around 100 with a bad one low at around 80. He said he would run it, but didn't trust to sell it that way.

BTW- He didn't gamble on it, he trusts me and knows I will take care of him.

[bradford]

I do a lot of horse trading and sometimes people can get their feelings hurt. Some deals are better to do with an actual cash price. I agree that if he was super concerned he should have checked it out himself, plus maybe you were running it around the last time with low compression and it just didn't show. In the end if it makes you feel better offer him something to sweeten the deal a little to show you're not a jerk, but don't go overboard.

EDIT

Thinking about it, he should have figured the motor was close to shot I think, and anyone buying an old corroded motor would assume any defects that could go wrong, especially those who know and work on boats. So basically I think its his problem, but if you like him see what he might have in mind. Y'all can work it out and someone you like and trust to work on your boat is like gold.

[phatdaddy]

ridge, the local dealer charged me $500 to rig the 150 4S on the V. i had already taken the old one off, had the side rod boxes out, tank hatch off, etc. can't really see it taking more than 3 hours, but they charged me for 6. they did an excellent job and after dropping $11,500, what's another $300. i would think rigging yours would be similar.

you need to do whatever makes you feel right. i think both of you thought you were getting a good value. i would think a dealer would be the last person to get snookered on a trade in. that being said, you want to keep a good relationship with this dealer.

if both of you were valuing the trade at $500, you could give him the cash, take the motor and all of the rigging, cables wiring harness, control box, etc. and throw them up on craigs list. be kind of a pia but you would probably get most of the $500 back. it would be a very kind gesture on your part and probably more than called far.

[smokeonthewater]

I still say he gambled.... You told him it runs.... He bought it... He should have said "as long as it checks out" or spent 15 min to do a compression test if he wanted to cover his hiney...

Don't get me wrong, I'm not down on him and were I in your place I might choose to take care of him too.... Not having been in the room for the negotiations I can't say what he should or shouldn't have assumed...

As said it was an old ratty used up motor.... What did he expect.....

Never know he MIGHT still be satisfied with the deal....

If the LU controls prop and starter are good there's your $500 right there.

[THEFERMANATOR]

If you were up front and realistic with him, then I don't see what the problem is. It's not like you said it was a diamond in the rough, just needing some paint to be brand new. If you swapped it out for rigging, then he should have known you didn't place much value in it. Honestly I would be offended if I traded an engine I was up front with running but being old and crusty and in overall rough shape, and they called me up months later saying it is low on compression so what are we goign to do. You sold him a used engine in rough shape, basically a part out engine. It doesn't sound to me like your in the wrong, but I would offer to take it back for the $500 just to keep from having any hard feelings. The lower unit if useable is worth $150-300, a stainless prop is worth $75-150, trim and tilt units working but ROUGH are worth an easy $100, and the rest should be worth an easy $250. He!! I've seen parts engines not running with holes in the blocks for more than $500 on craigslist here lately.

[the daydreamer]

Ridge if you like & trust the guy and he does work for you now and then , it might be worth it to do smoething to keep a good working relationship! What would spare say?

[Destroyer]

MY opinion is legally, you owe him nothing...
BUT
Let your conscience be your guide. If you feel like you owe him, then morally it might be a good idea to throw him a bone. NOT the whole amount, but let him keep the engine and give him some $$ to sweeten the deal.. If it were me I'd probably throw him $200 and be done with it. But I'd also tell him that I was giving him the extra money because he's a friend, that I value that friendship, and wanted no hard feelings.

[spareparts]

lets turn it around. If you bought an engine from a dealer that told you it was an old engine, that was corroded and worn. What would you expect? If you were going to buy it you would have asked for a compression test from the dealer or done it yourself to give you an idea of what condition the engine was in. If you found the engine was low on compression after the fact, do you think the dealer would give you your money back on a $500 engine? I've never seen any one give a warranty on a used outboard unless they just rebuilt it. If I were the dealer, I would not have tried to sell the motor if it was in that kind of condition any way. $500 motors don't get any kind of warranty regardless. Lowr unit will easily bring $500, carbs will fetch $100, ignition components will bring another $100. Did the get a prop with it also? If I were the dealer, I would not have expected the motor to be in resell able condition for $500 value. Tell them to put a can of powertune in the cylinder and restest. The motor on my proline was at 60 lbs(all other were 115). I power tuned it and it came back up

[RidgeRunner]

All Good advice. I don't know that I trust him to work on my stuff. I mean he is just a huge PITA 95% of the time. LOL! I did him a solid by buying the new motor from him. He needed to sell "X" number of new Mercs to be considered a dealer IIRC. I will throw him a bone. Thanks for the input..

[bradford]

Tell him to advertise it somewhere in South Georgia. The same guys trade the same used up Johnny Rudes back and forth around here constantly. Most think they're made out of gold. "Just needs the carbs cleaned..." LOL.

http://savannah.craigslist.org/bpo/4862192650.html

http://savannah.craigslist.org/boa/4863931611.html

nice prop

http://macon.craigslist.org/boa/4836184301.html

[RidgeRunner]

If they were made of gold it would not have corroded so badly. :party:

[randlemanboater]

I know I am a little late to the conversation, dang snow.

I like the idea of giving him a few extra bucks, let him keep the motor and the hassle of parting it out. All is good.

[Striper80]

Tell him to advertise it somewhere in South Georgia. The same guys trade the same used up Johnny Rudes back and forth around here constantly. Most think they're made out of gold. "Just needs the carbs cleaned..." LOL.

http://savannah.craigslist.org/bpo/4862192650.html

http://savannah.craigslist.org/boa/4863931611.html

nice prop

http://macon.craigslist.org/boa/4836184301.html
Damn my 89 110 is way cleaner than any of those. I bet I could get $2k down there. :fam:

[bradford]

Don't sell yourself short Striper....

http://savannah.craigslist.org/bpo/4914827045.html

Evinrude Intruder 175 - $2500 (Newington)

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make / manufacturer: Evinrude
model name / number: Intruder 175



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Model VE175GLETG
Serial # C03311110
For sale, the engine worked fine when removed. Out needs cleaning ftom years siting in barn. $2500.00. Stainless steal prop..

do NOT contact me with unsolicited services or offers

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[RidgeRunner]

:clap:Rare Spitfire Series too...

[NormanXanders]

I'd say let him eat it...half the reason I do my own rigging and repairs...long time no see Ridge....lets hook up this scallop season dude...

[THEFERMANATOR]

I'd say let him eat it...half the reason I do my own rigging and repairs...long time no see Ridge....lets hook up this scallop season dude...
Do you want a warranty on your new engine? If yes, then they rig it. It's that plain and simple when it comes to getting a new engine. If you want ANY warranty on your new outboard, they MUST do the final rigging and 1st startup. Alot of dealers won't even sell you an engine to rig yourself. Do some research on ED's marine and see what YAMAHA did to them when they got caught selling new outboards, giving people the warranty, but not rigging them. Or it could be like an ETEC where it WON'T run unless it is setup by the installing dealer with BRP's software.

[NormanXanders]

Do you want a warranty on your new engine? If yes, then they rig it. It's that plain and simple when it comes to getting a new engine. If you want ANY warranty on your new outboard, they MUST do the final rigging and 1st startup. Alot of dealers won't even sell you an engine to rig yourself. Do some research on ED's marine and see what YAMAHA did to them when they got caught selling new outboards, giving people the warranty, but not rigging them. Or it could be like an ETEC where it WON'T run unless it is setup by the installing dealer with BRP's software.

Very true, wasn't trying to ruffle your feathers, one of the perks of being a Mercruiser tech is setting up your own, guess I should have mentioned that in my post.

[RidgeRunner]

Good to hear from you Norman. Yeah, it was a new motor. Don't know if I will ever have any warranty. Dealer never sent anything to Merc. Never got my reciept. I was happy to have it done by the time it got done.. So what you said Norman, prolly Nada! Besides he got some siding and other perks for free to offset any unrealized financial gain in this deal.

What would a dealer gain from not sending a customers warranty info to Mercury? I am certain Mercury wants to rid me of my last dollar and marketing crap by mail is kinda expected if you know what I mean.. They don't know I exist, yet..

[THEFERMANATOR]

Good to hear from you Norman. Yeah, it was a new motor. Don't know if I will ever have any warranty. Dealer never sent anything to Merc. Never got my reciept. I was happy to have it done by the time it got done.. So what you said Norman, prolly Nada! Besides he got some siding and other perks for free to offset any unrealized financial gain in this deal.

What would a dealer gain from not sending a customers warranty info to Mercury? I am certain Mercury wants to rid me of my last dollar and marketing crap by mail is kinda expected if you know what I mean.. They don't know I exist, yet..
The dealer risks losing his dealer status with MERCURY. And my feathers weren't ruffled. I tried buying a new engine years back, and that was the line I got from every dealer I tried to get one from. So I rebuilt my EVINRUDE and made it a 225+. Ended up working out better in the end anyways as a new engine wouldn't have moved like mine did when I dropped the hammer(then again, my fuel gauge moved like it wouldn't have with a new engine either:sad:).

[spareparts]

if the dealer doesn't register you new engine, they are in violation of their dealer agreement and possibly some state/fed laws. Contact another dealer and have them run your number to check the status of your warranty. If it hasn't been registered, contact mercury Customer Service and tell them whats going on. ***** enough about it and you may gets some extended warranty out of them

[RidgeRunner]

Thanks for the info, I am confident it will be done then. I haven't pressed him. Mentioned it about a half dozen times.. I will never need the warranty. Right?

[NormanXanders]

Nah who needs a warranty? LMAO

[phatdaddy]

ridge, on my new merc, i know it was registered, with all the paperwork that goes with it. i haven't recieved anything from merc.

did i miss something?

[RidgeRunner]

I figured Merc would fill your mailbox with a bunch of advertisements, sell your name to a few dozen of their closest friends, so you get spam and unwanted mail for the rest of your life... maybe not. Maybe they figure after they sold you a motor your too broke to target... :ski:

[bradford]

Ridge you should call Mercury to know for sure whats going on. Did you receive a Manufacturer's Statement of Origin? (Kinda like a title, but actually better). Asking about it half a dozen times and still not having an answer is BS. You paid new engines prices right? Well part of that price is the warranty cost factored in. Unless you picked up something hot and it was half the price I'd def call and find out. After you get it figured out I'd shop around for a more reputable dealer for any service work.

[Destroyer]

ANY time I ever had to ask a parts supplier a half a dozen times where my parts were, or if something was done, I always figured it was time to get a new supplier. I'm talking multi-billion dollar companies with thousands of orders going in and out each day, and if they can keep track of their customers then by God I think that a small marine dealership should be able to also. It's time to trade in your dealer for a new one. Just my 2 cents..

[RidgeRunner]

I hear you and will refrain from commenting about my dealer. Momma always said...
BTW- I will definitely check into my motor registration with Mercury. It is now a priority. After having gone round and round with the purchase and installation, I lost interest. Not anymore, I am on it and will report findings..

[spareparts]

give me the serial number and I'll have it checked on

[RidgeRunner]

I had another dealer check the serial with Mercury. It turns out that the motor was registered with Mercury in February. February had rebates for repower IIRC. Never part of the deal, but that would be where the dealer makes a lick without it coming out of my pocket, so to speak... I feel better I guess.
So the first service is coming up at 20 hours. LOL! :party:

[phatdaddy]

got 60 0n my 150, dealer told me not to come back till 100hrs

[THEFERMANATOR]

I had another dealer check the serial with Mercury. It turns out that the motor was registered with Mercury in February. February had rebates for repower IIRC. Never part of the deal, but that would be where the dealer makes a lick without it coming out of my pocket, so to speak... I feel better I guess.
So the first service is coming up at 20 hours. LOL! :party:

So he drags his feet to get promo money, then has the nerve to want more money out of you because the trade in you basically gave him wasn't enough for him? WOW, that's BALLSY! Sounds like I would be finding another dealer.

[bradford]

So he drags his feet to get promo money, then has the nerve to want more money out of you because the trade in you basically gave him wasn't enough for him? WOW, that's BALLSY! Sounds like I would be finding another dealer.

Fine line between balls and stupid.

[RidgeRunner]

You are so right about another dealer Ferman. This guy just about cost me my love for boating... IDK for certain that he got any incentive money. The bottom line is that I have my warranty, I don't care about the rest of it. I will never go back. I tolerated the dealer for a long time and even understand where he is coming from. It is an uphill battle being third or fourth string in a mature market like Lakeland, FL.. I am now doing business with Old Salt Marine, formerly Mini-Craft of Florida. I have known these guys for a long time. I just wanted to be loyal to the underdog, so to speak. I guess that didn't work out very well.
Old Salt Marine likes boats and even make a few models of their own. 20' Proline with a full transom for instance, as well as a nice little 16' v-bottom center console that looks like a Renegade. Not cheap, but who cares, I won't need them much I hope... Integrity is worth a nickel extra when you can find it IMPO.

Phat, The dealer here said first oil change at 100 hours. My friend just bought the same motor as you (Mercury 150 4S). His dealer said 20 hours for first oil change. The book on my 115 said 100 hours. Whatever the case: I think 20 for the first oil change is in order. Friction on rotating assembly is greatest at first build, so I am going in early. Worst case, I change it early and it costs me a little extra $$