How's that "Hope and Change" working?

[Larryrsf]

For those who defied their own common sense and voted for someone with ZERO experience and ZERO demonstrated ability to manage or take executive decisions, I wonder what you're thinking now?

You gave us an incompetent President! Obama is very likely to go down as the worst who ever held that office BY FAR. Blacks in particular should be ashamed of him. He has RUINED any possible chance for another black to be elected.

The next worst president, Jimmy Carter, tried and failed because he couldn't stop trying to micromanage. But he worked! He worked his butt off! He was up all night and through every weekend trying-- slaving, meeting, talking, doing whatever he could.

This lazy lout doesn't even try. Obama is fulfilling the promise his resume predicted. He cheated and lied and allowed others to fake his grades and accomplishments, even to write his books.

I knew this disaster would happen because as an experienced corporate manager, I believe resumes predict performance. I knew Obama couldn't do the job of POTUS. I knew he wouldn't even try. I knew he was dishonest and that he had never worked in his life! Why didn't you?

Larry

[spareparts]

preachin' to the choir around here

[THEFERMANATOR]

A saying I have seen alot that is fitting, "What did you expect? It's his first real job."

[RidgeRunner]

:zip:

[Destroyer]

I actually like the guy. It's hard to get anywhere with the whole GOP riding your donkey.

Ummm.. so exactly how does that explain how, during his first year 2 years as president, when he had a democratic super majority in both the house and senate and could have passed ANYTHING that he passed nothing?

You should thank God that the GOP ....yes, even the RINO ones, are blocking his attempts to "fundamentally transform" America.

He and his administration have broken the law more times than ANY other president. A small sample are:

1) Obama Administration uses IRS to target conservative, Christian and pro-Israel organizations, donors, and citizens.

2) Obama has refused to enforce long-established U.S. immigration laws. For example, more than 300,000 captured illegal aliens had been processed and were awaiting deportation. Obama stopped these deportations in violation of law.

3) Congress rejected Obama's DREAM ACT – which would have granted permanent residency to many illegal aliens. So Obama enacted his own version of the DREAM ACT by Executive Order, thus directly defying Congress.

4) Obama has refused to build a double-barrier security fence along the U.S.-Mexican border in direct violation of the 2006 Secure Fence Act.

5) Obama issued, in one day, 21 separate Executive Orders that attack and undermine your Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. Especially bad are Obama's Executive Orders amending the Obama-care law to allow doctors and hospitals to investigate which patients own a gun. This Executive Order could allow the federal government to track and monitor law-abiding gun owners simply because they sought medical care.

6) Obama's assault on Christians and religious freedom. Obama's Health and Human Services Department has, on its own (without Congressional approval), issued a mandate that all health insurance plans must include coverage for abortion-inducing drugs. As a result, pro-life employers and taxpayers are now effectively required by law to pay for abortions.
This mandate is an unconstitutional attack on the protections for freedom of religion and freedom of conscience in the First Amendment and the 1993 Religious Freedom Restoration Act. It also directly violates the Obama-care law which prohibits any taxpayer funds from being used to pay for abortions.

7) Obama forced Obama-care on an unwilling public through bribery and lying about its cost. Obama managed to secure passage of Obama-care by one vote in the Senate by bribing senators. In addition, Obama knowingly and blatantly lied to America and to Congress about how much Obama-care would really cost. The cost of Obama-care to the American people over the next 10 years will not be less than $1 TRILLION, as Obama promised in his nationally televised speech to the nation. Instead, the real cost of Obama-care to the Federal Treasury is $2.4 TRILLION, according to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office. But the true cost of Obama-care is more like $10 TRILLION when you factor in the cost to the states, the cost to individual Americans who are now required to purchase Obama-approved health plans (the "Individual Mandate"), the cost of exploding health insurance premiums, the $716 billion Obama-care steals from Medicare, and the increased cost to businesses of complying with Obama-care mandates.

8) "Operation Fast & Furious" was the Obama Administration's gun-running scheme that put thousands of American-made semi-automatic weapons in the hands of Mexican drug cartels and resulted in the death of at least one U.S. Border Patrol Agent, Brian Terry. Congress has now held Holder in contempt for defying congressional subpoenas and refusing to turn over thousands of Justice Department documents on Fast & Furious. President Obama asserted Executive Privilege to try to protect Holder. But for Executive Privilege to apply, Obama would have had to have known about Fast & Furious, making the President as culpable as Holder.
Investigators suspect that Fast & Furious was an effort by the Obama Administration to discredit lawful gun ownership in America by purposefully creating gun crimes, thus inducing public outcry for gun control. When it put thousands of semi-automatic weapons in the hands of Mexican drug cartels, the Obama Justice Department knew these guns would be used to commit crimes, perhaps even kill some Americans. Then Obama could say: "See how dangerous these guns are. We must ban them."

9) "Federal Communications Commission (FCC): Regulated the Internet despite a court order from the Circuit Court of Appeals for Washington, D.C. stating that the FCC does not have the power to regulate the Internet."

10) "Environmental Protection Agency (EPA): Imposed Cross-State Air Pollution Rules on the state of Texas at the last minute and without an opportunity for Texas to respond to the proposed regulation.

11) "Department of Justice (DOJ): Rejected state voter ID statutes that are similar to those already approved by the Supreme Court of the United States. DOJ ignored section 8 of the Voting Rights Act which calls for protections against voter fraud, and used section 5 to administratively block measures to protect the integrity of elections passed by state legislatures.

12) "DOJ: In violation of 10th Amendment, sued to prevent Arizona from using reasonable measures to discourage illegal immigration within its borders. Arizona has a large number of illegal immigrants, compared to other states, and needs to be able to act to reduce the number.

13) "DOJ: Went to court to stop enforcement of Alabama's immigration reform laws, which require collection of the immigration status of public school students, require businesses to use E-Verify, and prohibit illegal immigrants from receiving public benefits.

14) "White House: Made "recess appointments" to the National Labor Relations Board and Consumer Financial Protection Bureau when Congress was NOT in recess. The Obama Administration has ignored the ruling by the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals that the appointments are unconstitutional."

15) "Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC): Interfered with a Michigan church's selection of its own ministers by trying to force the church to reinstate a minister who was discharged for her disagreement with the religious doctrine of the church.

16) "Department of Energy (DOE): In 2009, the Obama Administration arbitrarily broke federal law, violated various contracts, and derailed the most studied energy project in American history at Yucca Mountain by denying it a license, thus costing the American people more than $31 billion.

17) Department of the Interior (DOI): Forced Glendale, a family-oriented town in Arizona, to become another Las Vegas against its will by granting "reservation status" to a 54-acre plot in the town, where the Tohono O'odham Indian Nation plans to build a resort and casino.

18) Without Congressional approval, Obama gutted the work requirement for welfare recipients passed by Congress and signed into law by President Bill Clinton.

19) In the bailout of General Motors and Chrysler, Obama illegally shortchanged bond holders in favor of Labor Unions, despite U.S. bankruptcy laws that specify that bond holders be first in line to be paid back.

20) Eager to use the killing of Osama bin Laden for political gain, Obama exposed the identity and method of operation of the Navy Seals team that conducted the operation in Pakistan, thus exposing its members to a lifetime of risk because they have been targeted for assassination by Islamist s. A short time after Obama exposed the Navy Seals' method of operation, 22 SEALs were shot down and killed in Afghanistan. It is a violation of law for the President or any American to reveal classified military secrets.

21) President Obama established an extra-constitutional top secret "kill list" of people (including Americans) who can be summarily killed on sight – presumably by drones -- without due process.

22) Obama Administration officials twisted the arms of defense contractors to not issue layoff notices in October of 2012 so as to avoid causing bad news for Obama right before the election — even though federal law (the "WARN Act") requires such notices. ; Not only is this a violation of the WARN Act, it's also an unlawful use of federal officials for campaign purposes.

23) Obama intervened militarily in Libya in 2011 without the Congressional approval required by the War Powers Act.

24) Obama knowingly lied to Congress and the American people about the killing of U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans in Benghazi, Libya. The President and his representatives repeatedly said an anti-Islamic video sparked a spontaneous uprising in Libya that resulted in the killings even though Obama knew that the attack was a well-planned military-style assault by al Qaeda on the anniversary of September 11.

25) Michelle Obama's family trip to Africa in June of 2011, including a private safari at a South African game reserve, cost American taxpayers $424,000 for air travel alone.

Oh, and in the conspiracy theory dept, lets not forget that there is still a very real debate over whether or not he is actually an American citizen and should even be allowed to hold office in the first place. The phony "Birth Certificate" that he presented has been shown to be nothing more than 29 different Photoshop layers. each layer adding in a phony "fact" And the really funny thing about that Hawaii birth cert is that the person that certified it as "real" died in a plane crash once the details of the cover up started to be revealed.

And you like this guy? Sorry, but with all due respect, you need to get your head out of the "sand" and actually start investigating what this piece of crap, this cesspool has been and is doing to your country.

[Destroyer]

Destroyer, I can find as many poor decisions in almost every presidency over the last 100 years. I won't argue with you, you have very strongly held convictions, and I won't try to change your mind. Having said that, I still stand by my statement that "I actually like the guy"

Ummm, no, you cannot. The difference, my friend, is that while other presidents may have made some bad decisions, (no one is perfect after all) nowhere in our history has a president so blatantly flaunted the rule of law on so many occasions. This guy is one step away from becoming a dictator. No other president has issued more Executive Orders than this president, circumnavigating Congress and the Constitution of the United States for his own personal gain or the furthering of his agenda(s).

I actually like snakes. (no, really, I do) Cobras, rattlers, pit vipers, one steppers, copperheads, moccasins, corals, you name it, I like them. But I would be a complete fool to invite them into my house. To me, Obama is far more deadly than any of them, because he is killing the United States. I will not invite him into my home.

FACT: The latest Quinnipiac poll, has voted Obama the worst president in 70 years.
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/poll-obama-worst-president-since-wwii-108507.html
and
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/2/obama-worst-president-wwii-new-poll-shows/?page=all

If you want to support this guy, go right ahead. It's your right as an American citizen. (Well, for now at least, until he takes that away also).

[spareparts]

Ok Soggy, I'll play along,I don't know if you are trolling, being sarcastic, making conversation or actually like the guy. So for what reason do you like the guy? Enlighten us? Its always good to hear opposing views to your own

[Larryrsf]

Destroyer, I can find as many poor decisions in almost every presidency over the last 100 years. I won't argue with you, you have very strongly held convictions, and I won't try to change your mind. Having said that, I still stand by my statement that "I actually like the guy"

I love to ask people whether they would be eager to have someone drop in and take over management of the company they work for-- someone with ZERO experience in that industry and ZERO demonstrated ability to manage or lead others. How would they like that? Of course they should be horrified, knowing that guy would almost certainly run their company bankrupt-- and they would lose their job and whatever retirement they were planning on.

But these same people somehow believed Obama could suddenly measure up to function as POTUS. Amazing.

Larry

[Larryrsf]

http://www2.siena.edu/pages/179.asp?item=2566

Here's a scholarly study that places Obama at 15th overall, and his predecessor dead last in presidential ranking. I'd rather stick with studies that have some basis in fact, rather than are strictly public opinion. Unfortunately, this is only current as of 2010.

Most, not all, of that list is bogus. Each can be dissected and disproved to have been helpful to this country. And of course, Obama himself didn't do any of that stuff, the POTUS has a staff of 3000 that are paid by us taxpayers. All a good POTUS has to do is NOT INTERFERE as they do their job. Obama isn't even around enough to review and sign documents in a timely manner.

BTW, like Harry Truman, GW Bush is being resurrected fast as historians review his decisions and the underlying situation at the time. Both men had "uncommon courage" to go against the tide of conventional wisdom and make the hard decisions. Many of those have turned out to be correct.

Obama was handed a Middle East in good shape. He has allowed all those gains to be wasted. 4000 lives were spend in Iraq. All Obama had to do is negotiate a "status of forces" agreement with Maliki. He couldn't do it. He wouldn't do it because the lazy bastard wouldn't spend the time.

Larry

[RWilson2526]

Just so you know Spoggy you are not alone. But after going through two presidential elections with these guys I really can't take any more.

[spareparts]

Some one spent way too much time on DU

[Destroyer]

OMG You actually believe that drivel you posted? 95% of everything there is bogus or is taking credit for things he didn't do. For example, exactly how is Foxconn's building a plant in Penn remotely connected to Pres Obama? The article doesn't even mention him... It does mention the Governor of Penn several times, as well as the chairman of Foxconn... but not a peep about Obama.

And I love the line between 33 and 34 "Brought Much-Improved Transparency and Better Government"
Ummm... his presidency has stonewalled more things than even President Nixon. Things like IRS and Benghazi just off the top of my head. At least President Nixon had the decency to resign when he was caught. And as history has shown, unlike Obama, Nixon was actually a great president in international affairs.

You need to actually READ and research the things you post, not just cut and paste and take someone else's word for it.

(some of) The operative words in those links are things like "tried", "suggested" "initiated", "oversaw" etc, etc, etc... He didn't do ANY of them himself, and most of them he didn't even know about, but just like killing Bin Laden, he and his press corps are trying to take credit for something that his predecessor actually started.

[Destroyer]

Alright, I haven't attacked anyone here. I haven't accused anyone of not being able to read. I would appreciate the same consideration. I have read these, and I attributed my "cut and paste" to the appropriate source. It just so happens that the majority of what was already collected fit my purposes for this conversation.

As to Foxconn. Reading through the information that is available leads me to believe that they chose to move to the US is a direct result of President Obama's initiative to bring high-tech manufacturing to the US. I'm sorry that you don't agree with everything that has been posted, you don't have to. But, neither do I. And, I don't need to resort to denigrating you by suggesting that you actually have no real idea what you're posting. If you prefer to have that type of discussion, I suggest we take it offline.

Nowhere did I attack you, other than to suggest that you actually read what you are posting. I can bet, almost without reservation, that you did not read all of the 245 items you posted. I never said you could not read, I merely was pointing out that you probably did not read all of that mush. That was the crux of my comment. If you think that was a personal attack, then I apologize. It was not intended to be so. It was, however, a comment meant to emphasize that just cutting and pasting does no one any good, since what you post could be in error, and then you would be helping to perpetuate lies and misinformation, just like those 245 "facts".

As to any posts I make, very rarely do I not include at least 2 separate sources for any claim I make, Re: the poll that showed Obama was considered the worst president in the last 69 years. I only gave 5 examples of his law breaking, and every one of them was researched and are easily provable by even the simplest of internet searches, including Snoops. That's the difference between reading, researching and just cutting and pasting.

And let me ask you a question. If Obama is so guilt free, then why has the Congress of the United States taken up a lawsuit against him for the very law breaking that we are talking about? Partisan politics aside, no one is going to accuse ANY president of breaking the law, especially in print and in public, unless it can be proven. Can't you see that? Do you really think that Obama is above the same rules of law that we have to live by.

[RWilson2526]

Destroyer, "OMG, you actually believe that drivel you posted." Is not hard to be construed as an attack. If that was your response to me I'd take offense, sorry. I know this will probably hurt your feelings, but you can be a little bit of bully in your responses on this topic. And there is a whole bunch of you that say point blank if you voted for this guy you are an idiot or the sheeple or what have you. Again, just insulting to someone who may have voted for him period.

I think I already said this last year but actually didn't vote for him last year because I couldn't take another four years of F U C K I N G whining. Answering Ronald Reagan's question am I better off than I was 4 years ago. We'll, I am. I'm making more money, my health insurance hasn't changed, I'm not paying taxes on my health insurance premiums (remember that whole debate), the ocean hasn't been declared off limits, as far as I know not one of you have had to turn in any of your guns. I'm sorry but the sky is falling crap is making me nuts. 5 years ago we had to listen to how this is the end, come re election time we had to listen to how he was just setting us up for the real screwing.....

And finally you criticize all of the alleged accomplishments but I can sit here and research all of you posted ill doings and come up with probably a reasonable justification for a lot of it.

S h I t I need to stop coming to this political forum

[THEFERMANATOR]

Destroyer, "OMG, you actually believe that drivel you posted." Is not hard to be construed as an attack. If that was your response to me I'd take offense, sorry. I know this will probably hurt your feelings, but you can be a little bit of bully in your responses on this topic. And there is a whole bunch of you that say point blank if you voted for this guy you are an idiot or the sheeple or what have you. Again, just insulting to someone who may have voted for him period.

I think I already said this last year but actually didn't vote for him last year because I couldn't take another four years of F U C K I N G whining. Answering Ronald Reagan's question am I better off than I was 4 years ago. We'll, I am. I'm making more money, my health insurance hasn't changed, I'm not paying taxes on my health insurance premiums (remember that whole debate), the ocean hasn't been declared off limits, as far as I know not one of you have had to turn in any of your guns. I'm sorry but the sky is falling crap is making me nuts. 5 years ago we had to listen to how this is the end, come re election time we had to listen to how he was just setting us up for the real screwing.....

And finally you criticize all of the alleged accomplishments but I can sit here and research all of you posted ill doings and come up with probably a reasonable justification for a lot of it.

S h I t I need to stop coming to this political forum

I'm glad things are doign well for you, but not all of us are doing well. We DID lose our insurance in a sense, it got so expensive we could no longer afford and were forced onto the exchange. my wife stil lhas her insurance through work, but myself and my son just couldn't afford it any longer at over $700 a month for basic covers nothing insurance. My wifes pay is about the same, but utilities and essentials cost at least 30% more(if not more) now than they did when o took office. And if you lived down here in the Gulf states, you would believe the ocean has been closed off with all of the fishing restrictions we have endured under o. So some are still doing good, but ALOT of us are MUCh worse off now than we were 6 years ago before o took office.

[Destroyer]

Destroyer, "OMG, you actually believe that drivel you posted." Is not hard to be construed as an attack. If that was your response to me I'd take offense, sorry.

RW, I think you missed the ? at the end of that sentence you are quoting. I did not accuse. It was not a statement. It was a question. And I fail to see how asking a question can be an attack. If I had said it as a statement I can see your point, and it would be valid I guess, but again I point out that I was asking him if he actually believed something. That's not an attack. I believe it was and is drivel, but that is my opinion and I'm entitled to it.

And there is no need to be sorry. You're my longest friend here, in fact (for anyone that doesn't know) you got me onto this site in the first place. I tip toe around your political leanings and never attack you in deference to you. Always have and always will.

But as to your comment about being better off... Well, Obama-care is just starting to kick in, so it's too early to really see how much damage it will or won't do... but everyone (even NBC) has admitted that it will cost trillions more than originally stated. Our treasury is printing money faster than a speeding bullet. 17 Trillion so far and more coming... and trust me when I say that money is going to have to be repaid... by my kids, your kids, our grandchildren and their kids... Do you realize that right now, every single person in the United States, even just born babies, owes close to $250,000 dollars to the Country? Where do you think they are going to get that money to pay back that debt? Can you say....taxes?

And look at your Utility bills from 6 years ago and now... You and I are on the same grid and we pay the same utility company, and I can tell you that mine sure have not gone down or even stayed the same.
When you pull into the gas pump, do you stop to think that gas is over twice the cost that it was when Obama took office? We become used to certain things and don't think about them, and they (politicians in general, both sides) count on it. There are so very many hidden taxes that we don't even know about... and now they are talking about wanting to tax the internet. (Current federal law bans any state from taxing internet access. But the law expires November 1st. Now the Senate Democrats and a few Republicans are threatening to let the law expire -- and the taxing begin -- if Congress does not allow states to impose sales taxes on internet purchases).

So in answer to your question, no, I am not better off than I was 4 years ago. I make much less, my Medicare was raped to help fund Obama-care, I pay more than double at the gas pumps, food costs are going through the roof, and when my wife retires in a few years we're going to get hit with hundreds, if not thousands more in health insurance costs than we would have 6 years ago.

And I have yet to see a single thing that I am better off about.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Well, my foray into this forum, though well intentioned was ill-advised. I appreciate the support from RWilson2526. Destroyer, I did read all that "mush". You are insulting me by denigrating the material I post and calling into question my ability to understand the repercussions of my "cut and paste". I was asked to give some reasons as to why I like President Obama because I may have been a troll or may be sarcastic. I have never called into question the veracity of the information you have posted, perhaps I should have. I can find errors in almost everything that has been posted in this thread, by everyone. Really, I posted my OWN REAL world view of what has happened since o took office, but it is in error?

As to why the GOP is suing the President? It's political obstruction. I have already shown that President Obama has written fewer executive orders since Grover Cleveland. John Boehner isn't even sure which executive orders they're going to sue over. The GOP is suing the the President for doing his job, running the country when the GOP has chosen to spend all their time trying to overturn laws that their OWN BODY passed. The GOP has tried 50 times since the ACA was passed to overturn it at a cost of some $70 million to the american taxpayers. If the ACA is something that the majority of Americans don't want, how come they can't repeal it? That's just one example. It comes down to the type of EO's he has signed. He has side stepped the governing bodies to push hi s own personal agenda time and time again. That is why they were suing him. Any attempt to have a bipartisan discussion has resulted in the left saying we will only agree to what we want, and not bend. So o took to EO's. If the people didn't want this to happen, then why do these ELECTED OFFICIALS keep getting re-elected to continue to do this? This is what the left just cannot see is ELECTED officials are doing this because this is what there constituants WANT. Almost every pole out there has shown that the ACA isn't favored by the majority of the public, even people who are on it(like myself) would rather be able to afford our own policies. Or better yet, tell me how in 1 single way the ACA has done anything to help healthcare. I have actually used the healthcare system, and the ACA has done nothing at all to address the issues. Sky rocketing costs ARE the issue, and this is why the lawsuits and continued rejection of the ACA come from. It has done nothing but to push this country towards single payer. Almost every study out there has proven that we have jsut as many(or more according to several reports) of UN-insured, yet it is still here despite proving it hasn't done what it was set out to do. And what is going to happen when the REAL costs come out over the next few years?

You have strongly held beliefs, as do I. I haven't been attempting to change anyone's mind, only explain why "I like the guy". I have come to the conclusion that this particular forum is not about the ability to have a free exchange of political ideas and learn about each other, it's a microcosm of the current political climate where everyone is right and has a moral imperative to force their beliefs on others without thinking that the other side has a right to their opinion, and existence.And this is what the left has become renowned for, forcing there views on others. Yes destroyer has strong opinions, but he has explained his standings and backed them up. Not just copied and pasted some examples that look like propoganda. It would be nice to have an actual discussion regarding this matter, and many here would do so. Just back up what you post, not just throw something out there.

This is my penultimate comment in the political forums, I'm sticking to boats and fishing from now on. And this is what many of us have come to despise of the left. Either see it my way or I'm taking my ball and leaving. So many are not willing to see that MANY of us are not better off under our current administration, and are tired of being pissed on and told it's raining. I'm not normally one to foray into the politics forums as I'm not very good at conveying in a civilized manner what I'm thinking(so I apoligize if I come off as attacking you, that is not my intention), but it would be nice to have actual examples of things our administration has done that are positive(not just a copied and pasted list of things). It would also be nice for those on the other side of the fence to realize that many of us have been harmed by his policies, and inability to lead and work with those on both sides of the aisle(the very thing he said he would do when he ran for office in the first place) to help the public instead of polarize it and put us back. If you choose not to post in politics, that is fine(it's stil la free country). But the whole you don't see it my way is a bit over the top.


In red.

[Larryrsf]

RW, I think you missed the ? at the end of that sentence you are quoting. I did not accuse. It was not a statement. It was a question. And I fail to see how asking a question can be an attack. If I had said it as a statement I can see your point, and it would be valid I guess, but again I point out that I was asking him if he actually believed something. That's not an attack. I believe it was and is drivel, but that is my opinion and I'm entitled to it.

And there is no need to be sorry. You're my longest friend here, in fact (for anyone that doesn't know) you got me onto this site in the first place. I tip toe around your political leanings and never attack you in deference to you. Always have and always will.

But as to your comment about being better off... Well, Obama-care is just starting to kick in, so it's too early to really see how much damage it will or won't do... but everyone (even NBC) has admitted that it will cost trillions more than originally stated. Our treasury is printing money faster than a speeding bullet. 17 Trillion so far and more coming... and trust me when I say that money is going to have to be repaid... by my kids, your kids, our grandchildren and their kids... Do you realize that right now, every single person in the United States, even just born babies, owes close to $250,000 dollars to the Country? Where do you think they are going to get that money to pay back that debt? Can you say....taxes?

And look at your Utility bills from 6 years ago and now... You and I are on the same grid and we pay the same utility company, and I can tell you that mine sure have not gone down or even stayed the same.
When you pull into the gas pump, do you stop to think that gas is over twice the cost that it was when Obama took office? We become used to certain things and don't think about them, and they (politicians in general, both sides) count on it. There are so very many hidden taxes that we don't even know about... and now they are talking about wanting to tax the internet. (Current federal law bans any state from taxing internet access. But the law expires November 1st. Now the Senate Democrats and a few Republicans are threatening to let the law expire -- and the taxing begin -- if Congress does not allow states to impose sales taxes on internet purchases).

So in answer to your question, no, I am not better off than I was 4 years ago. I make much less, my Medicare was raped to help fund Obama-care, I pay more than double at the gas pumps, food costs are going through the roof, and when my wife retires in a few years we're going to get hit with hundreds, if not thousands more in health insurance costs than we would have 6 years ago.

And I have yet to see a single thing that I am better off about.

What he has done and is busily doing is "redistribution." He wants to level the results rather than the abilities. Of course he knows nothing, has zero personal experience, so everything Obama believes is the garbage he learned as a kid, taught by communist parents and communist mentors. the FACT that there are no examples in the world wherein people prospered under Communism seems not to phase him.

He will fail to transform America, but he has and will have cost Americans TRILLIONS.

He was allowed to screw us because some here were STUPID enough to believe he would be able to function as a POTUS and help people. That is what is galling. They would NOT listen to experienced people warning that Obama would be a disaster if promoted to President.

I just wish there was a way to make them suffer alone for the damage Obama has done-- and restore the lost wealth and property values for those who DID NOT stupidly vote for that moron.

Larry

[RWilson2526]

Damn, I think Larry is Destroyers evil twin.

[bradford]

If more People would put the same effort into improving themselves and their family as they do worrying about who's gonna be the next new shyster son of a ***** in the white house every four years we'd all be doing a hell of a lot better.

[smokeonthewater]

Damn, I think Larry is Destroyers evil twin.

First time I've heard the word evil used to make a complement! :hi:

I dare say Obummer is the second worst leader this land has ever had..... The worst being King George III tho I'm not CERTAIN George was actually worse!

(not referring to bush)

[Destroyer]

Spoogy, you are entitled to your beliefs. I've made that clear several times. But if you fire a gun at me, you can bet I'm going to return fire. Your comments were and are insulting to me, yet unlike you, I've kept quiet about being insulted. No more. If you think that I'm going to sit by while you insult me, lie to me and everyone else here with those posted "facts" and then allow you to think that you can do so with impunity, (simply because you seem to be able to use some fancy words here and there), perhaps you should think again.

The atmosphere in here is harsh. I admit it and I'll make no apologies for that. And if at times I seem to be a bully... well, so be it. As they say, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen". But nothing I post is knowingly false. Everything is well read before hand and then researched independently. You want to check my posts? Have at it. If I've made a mistake I'll welcome a correction.

I am a person of deep convictions. I'm a Patriot. I love my Country! And for the record, I'm not a Republican. I'm not a Democrat. I'm a highly conservative Independent. I'm a twice decorated Vietnam combat vet. And please, for the love of God, don't thank me for my service. No one did while I was in. It just sounds hollow now.

As before, I welcome you into these forums, and I look forward to anything you have to post with regards to boating, fishing, family matters, questions, in fact just about anything in the whole wide world.........Except your political views, because from where I stand, when someone starts a discussion, or a fight, and then runs away, they lose stature in my eyes. You have been trying to take the high road, aiming insult after insult, playing the wounded soul... "Oh poor me, you're ganging up on me, I'm insulted"....... And around here, it doesn't work. There are some highly intelligent people here that can see through smoke screens like that in an instant. And if you are insulted, well, "frankly Scarlet, I don't give a damn".

Cutting and pasting a bunch of useless "facts" is not a discussion. And I'll tell you right now that I will not believe you for a second if you try to tell me that you read and researched every one of those 245 supposed "facts" before you pasted them here. So, go ahead and use your fancy words and your bourgeoisie attitude. We of the proletariat are not impressed.

[Destroyer]

Just a really quick reply. There is a caveat at the beginning of this thread, stating that " This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it!!" Perhaps, like those 245 "facts", you should have read that also.

[cterrebonne]

I tried to read that whole list but I stopped when I got to this one.

6. Through an executive order, he created the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform. http://bit.ly/hwKhKa
Prevented a Bush Depression and Improved the Economy

If that list said that the president stopped a depression, I really would argue that whoever put that list together does not grasp how out economy and the Federal Reserve system really works. Actually restricting government spending would lessen the US's GDP and not improve it.

I am all for giving someone their fair shot when they win the office of the presidency but the guy in charge right now really has some bad things going on underneath him right now.

I am sure there is plenty that he did good for the country, I would say despite that, he has done more bad things.

[LESTERUS]

"40. Issued an Executive Order on Presidential Records, which restored the 30-day time frame for former presidents to review records, and eliminated the right for the vice president or family members of former presidents to do the reviews. Provides the public with greater access to historic White House documents, and severely curtails the ability to use executive privilege to shield them." And yet, his personal records, grades, clients etc. are sealed FOR THE NEXT 50 YEARS.!!!!!!!!, Why ???????

[willy]

Really? Why? Because he is a liar, a crook and a died in the wool socialist.
He feels nothing for the American People, actually holds them in disdain for not embracing the obviousness of his socialist ideals.
He holds the Constitution in disdain, feels it unduly restricts his plans for the utopian dream of his fathers.
He has secretly plotted against large segments of the American People to fundamentally transform America, starting with Fast and Furious, continuing with using the IRS to target Americans who disagree with him and a dozen other things that completely explain what kind of anti American trash he is.

The sorry thing for us as Americans, this country elected him twice. Shame on us.
We have a chance tomorrow to start fixing it, hopefully our liberal friends and we all have them God Bless their hearts have the courage and foresight to help

[willy]

Maybe, just maybe there is hope tonight that the American People can see the forest for the trees.
The Senate is now in the hands of people who will actually debate issues and vote on Bill's presented to them by the Peoples House.
Harry Reid go sit down with the rest of the scum.

[Destroyer]

Yesterday, we, the American public, sent a clear message to both parties that we do not like the president's policy's, that we do not want America to be "fundamentally changed". Over the past 6 years, the house has sent over 800 bills to the Senate. All sat in limbo because Harry Reid, acting on the presidents orders, would not let any of them come up for a vote. Now admittedly, not every bill was good, and not every bill would have passed. But the point is that none of them were even debated... none of them ever came to the floor for a vote. Hopefully with the Senate and the Congress now firmly in the hands of the Republicans that logjam will finally be cleared and Washington will actually start doing what they are getting paid to do. Do not expect every bill to be signed by the president. He still has the very powerful veto pen in his pocket. But at least if he veto's everything that comes before him the American public will see who the real party of "no" is. Let us hope and pray that he doesn't just reject everything that comes before him since we have some very real problems with this country and we need both parties working together to fix them.

Yes, I personally am elated with the election results, but I am also cognoscente of the fact that now we have an obligation and a sacred duty to try to work together and resolve some of the problems facing us. ISIS, Ebloa, Keystone, Immigration, & Minimum wage are just a few of them. The time for politics is over. The real work begins now!

[spareparts]

an update on that hope and change bs. We got our revised summary for health insurance for next year, it will be $1142 per month for me and my two daughters at $5000 deductible/out of pocket per year.:nut: Before O care, it was $546 per month with a $1000 deductible/out of pocket. I want to personally thank all the asshats that voted for this crap, you can show your appreciation by making a monthly payment to my personal account to offset my increased premiums. I take cash check and paypal. :butt:Before any one suggest it, we make too much money to get the subsidies and because of my daughters health history I'm not taking any chance by shopping another company. Changes are coming again for the health care industry and its not going to get any better. I blame all who voted for this crap.

[bradford]

Spare that sucks man.

I'm wondering what I'm gonna do next time mine goes up. Maxed out at the most I'm willing to afford now. My flood insurance about doubled this year too. Never had a claim. The policy is administrated by my old insurance company. My new guy told me NOT to switch it over to him because he's had others go up 4-5 times what they were paying! If I didn't have family that counted on me for certain things I'd seriously go John Galt. Check out of society and refuse to play the game. Find an old trawler to live on and not own anything.

[spareparts]

the worse part is, if my wife were on this policy, it would be an additional $759 per month. Luckily she is on her companies policy(its gotten pretty crappy as well). My health insurance is by far the most expensive thing we have. I have a reasonable house payment(far less than the insurance), our vehicles are paid for(newest one is an 02 with 165k miles) We have one credit card with less than a $500 balance and thats it. I just paid out $1400 for dental work as well. Right now I'm considering closing my business if I can get on with a plant maintenance company that services Google and Boeing. I've had to go back to school to get the classes I need to get hired on. The money will be less but they offer family insurance policies that will offset the income difference(I'll still keep Kendall on her same policy). We are witnessing the demise of the middle class and small business.

[THEFERMANATOR]

I feel your pain. We don't pay nowhere near what you are, but it is sad that health insurance is also our biggest out of pocket expense, and has just about put us in the poor house. My wife is a teacher, and it used to be you became a teacher for the benefits, well not no more. She is now paying $60 a month(I know not much, but her pay is very low because she is supposed to get benefits to offset it and bring it up to what other public teachers make), we pay $380 a month for mine through the exchange(Hated doing it, but had to so we could afford groceries), and our son is through the state. Before ocare we could all have PREMIUM insurance through her work that covered EVERYTHING for under $250 a month, now there crappy coverage(that meets ocare guidelines) is $800 a month for a family. We spend more on insurance than anything else in this world if you really think about it. Health, dental, vision, life, burial, auto, gap, homeowners, finance, mortgage, and so on. It is scary to think of what some people really pay out in insurance every month. We don't have that many coverages, and we spend close to half of our income on insurance alone every year. We don't make much, but we barely skim by. You shouldn't have to make a $100K a year to live a decent life, but anymore it looks that way.

I remember as a kid our family didn't make but about $40K a year, and we lived a very nice life, and weren't wanting for much. But today $40K a year is barely living above poverty if you live by the rules.

[LESTERUS]

So, Spoogy, years ago you posted this about Obama:

1. Within his first week, he signed an Executive Order ordering an audit of government contracts, and combating waste and abuse.

Now, years past our national debt has grown, under Obama's watch, from 8 Trillion, to 18 Trillion dollars, What about that audit about waste and abuse ?, Did he read the report ?
I guess not.....

[bradford]

The game and it's nuances can bite me.

Just got a letter from the health insurance company, my grandfathered plan is no longer available.

I thought I was gonna be able to keep my plan?

Thats what those lying bastards said wasn't it?

I remember some lying bastard saying it over and over on the news/tv/mind control box so it must be fuking true right?

They will let me keep it till the end of the year but will be charging me an additional 90 bucks a month which is still 100 bucks cheaper than any plan I've been able to find elsewhere. I've been pretty much maxed out at what they were charging last year. I'm tired of being a cash cow for these sons of *****es. I've got a $20,000 deductible $10,000 for me, $10,000 for my wife, one can't go towards another I find out, before they have to chip in anything but a doctor check up that I have to pay 50 towards. Don't know the path from here, but do know I'm done. There's more to life than being a slave and paying what could be a mortgage payment to these bastards so other low lifes can suck the whole thing dry. Sitting on their fat asses driving a car or truck 20+ years newer than mine. Done.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Yep, obamas been so good I've had to get on disability just for medicare because we couldnt afford health insurance. You guys can spin it anyway you want, but you can't blame Bush forever. At some point, o is going to have to own this mess. All he's done is throw money at the fire to keep it burning, but eventually we'll run out of money to throw at it, and when it goes out, we'll have a real mess.

[Pipe_Dream]

Goodness knows there is plenty of blame to go around amongst both Democrats and Republicans. Neither side wants to sincerely address the debt. Republicans don't have the will, because it would likely cost them votes. Some Democrats may have that mindset, but a part of me is beginning to believe that many of them want us to go down the road to financial disaster, because ultimately it will give them more power over us. Conspiracy theory? It's pretty commonly known in the insurance business that Obamacare was designed to fail, and be the catalyst for universal health care. Sorry, spoggy, but I'm not buying that they thought they could correct its "issues" afterward in Congress. It was pushed through without adequate review in completely partisan fashion ("we have to pass it to find out what's in it"), and took the SCOTUS' legislating from the bench for it to not be overturned. It is a cluster **** of epic proportions, and as is more often than not the case, those that wrote and passed it are not subject to it. And don't get me started on Ezra Klein.

I hope not to spend too much time politic-ing here, as this is one of the few forums I visit where it doesn't come up much. But, when in Rome...

[Destroyer]

So, I've really tried to stay out of this particular forum, because I know I'm in the minority. I hear and understand that everyone is pissed at the current situation, and I have two more points to make.

First, our government consists of 3 branches, the legislative, judicial and executive. Any ONE branch can act as a check to the other two. Obama cannot act in a vacuum. If congress doesn't like his wielding of the executive pen, they can craft law to defeat his efforts. Please bear this in mind. Congress can stop Obama if they choose to.

Second, and many of you wont like this, so I'll apologize first. My wife works in government relations for one of the top five health care systems in the United States. She drafted portions of the ACA with respect to reimbursement. People in Washington knew there would be issues with the ACA when it was passed, but the intent was to modify it by law through congress. The republicans gained control, and in an effort to repeal the ACA and get support for doing so from the public, have blocked every bill that would improve the ACA and relieve some of the financial burden of those insured. Let me make this clear, the republicans are blocking legislation that would make the ACA easier and cheaper to use so they can get enough support to repeal it. In the meantime, it's you folks that suffer for the stiff necks in Washington.

Oh please. DO NOT insult our intelligence with dribble and spin like this. Fact. Obamacare was passed in the dead of night by the DEMOCRATS under the guidance of Pelossi and Reid.
Fact. The cost of health insurance for most people just about DOUBLED as soon as it passed.
Fact. That BS about the Republicans blocking every bill is just pure bull. BOTH parties have blocked bills from the other side. The Democrats (who passed this TAX in the first place) are just as guilty as the Republicans, if not more so since they passed this piece of $HIT bill on the American public in the first place!

The government has NO BUSINESS being in health care in the first place! This whole ACA was nothing more than an (unfortunately successful) attempt on the part of the federal government to be able to exert more power over us. (It now controls our money, our food and our medical. Don't tell me that we are free... we're on the path to a dictatorship the likes of which we've never seen. As soon as they take away our guns [One of Hillarys objectives] we're just meat ready to be cut up on the Progressives carving table) And the ONLY way they were able to get this POS bill passed was for the SCOTUS to declare it a TAX (even though the Dems had lied and declared time and time again that it wasn't) Although I cannot prove it, I still think that someone got to that traitor Roberts, who changed his opinion and invented out of whole cloth a new definition of taxation that contravenes long-standing precedent. He added hundreds of billions of dollars to the federal deficit, by way of his Medicaid ruling. And he forever tarnished his legacy as a Justice, and his promise to the nation that "he would serve as an umpire, and remember that it's my job to call balls and strikes, and not to pitch or bat".
But that's just my opinion, and as I said, I cannot prove it. But what I DO KNOW is that since this bill was passed people have had their MANDATED health insurance become an Albatross around their necks, putting them in financial ruin, forcing them to work 2 and 3 jobs just to pay for it. This is NOT what our government is supposed to do to it's citizens. and if anyone is so blind that they cannot see who is directly responsible for this in the first place, ... well, frankly I feel sorry for them because they cannot see past the smoke screen of spin that is in front of them. And now they are trying to elect a thoroughly corrupt politician that belongs in jail, is a liar, very likely a thief and perhaps a murderer. And this is the best they could come up with? That tells you a lot about their party. But I digress.. Obamacare has been a disaster that has cost American taxpayers trillions of dollars in unnecessary costs. Blaming it on the Republicans is just another spin job. It was Democrats that passed it. Period. Anything more than that is just smoke and mirrors spin.

[Destroyer]

Is it fair to blame any President for events over which he had no control?

Why don't you ask Obama? He's been blaming President Bush for everything for the past 8 years.

[bradford]

.

[Striper80]

That's ridiculous. It's doubled.

[spareparts]

ours went up more than that.
BTW, if anyone thinks the Republicans were part of the problem with the ACA, they don't understand our government. The democrats had a super majority in the house and senate for the last two years of the Bush presidency, basically nullifying anything Bush could propose. The Democrats had the power to do something about the crash, but seeing as how they were the ones who caused it, they blamed it on Bush. The first two years of the Obama presidency, the democrats had full control with no checks. They still had the suoper majority in teh house and senate, and with the presidency, they could have passed anything they wanted without any thing preventing them. Pelosy stated that if you want to read it, you have to pass it. It wasn't even circulated before voting. If there has ever been a gross misuse of our government and representatives, that was it.

[Destroyer]

ours went up more than that.
BTW, if anyone thinks the Republicans were part of the problem with the ACA, they don't understand our government. The democrats had a super majority in the house and senate for the last two years of the Bush presidency, basically nullifying anything Bush could propose. The Democrats had the power to do something about the crash, but seeing as how they were the ones who caused it, they blamed it on Bush. The first two years of the Obama presidency, the democrats had full control with no checks. They still had the super majority in the house and senate, and with the presidency, they could have passed anything they wanted without any thing preventing them. Pelosy stated that if you want to read it, you have to pass it. It wasn't even circulated before voting. If there has ever been a gross misuse of our government and representatives, that was it.

100% correct. Basically, the Dems ruled (Had control of the purse strings) for 4 straight years... 2 in Bush's last term and 2 in Obama's first term. They could have done just about anything in Obama's first term to actually fix things, but all they did was blame everything on Bush and pass the most expensive spending bill in our nations history, (They called it the "Stimulus" bill)...but all it really was was a way to fill the respective Congressmen's home states with massive pork spending so as to try to solidify their own reelection when their terms expired. And then, in the dead of night, with a complete abrogation of the current laws, Reid passed the ACA Act (Obamacare) with a straight up and down vote instead of the 2/3's majority normally required. It passed by one vote. As the story goes, they awakened Russ Feingold from his home and transported him to the Senate chambers so he could cast the deciding vote. EVERY single Democrat Senator voted for the bill and EVERY single Republican voted against it. The House passed the Senate bill with a 219–212 vote on March 21, 2010, with 34 Democrats and all 178 Republicans voting against it. The next day, Republicans introduced legislation to repeal the bill. Obama signed ACA into law on March 23, 2010.

ANY time you ever hear the government call a bill "Affordable", grab your wallet and run for the hills because you know, surer than $hit, they are going to steal more money from you. Does anyone really think that the "Affordable Care Act" is really "affordable"? If so I own a bridge going from Manhattan to Brooklyn that you might be interested in buying.