V20 Vs. Bertram 20

[dan4836]

I love looking at classic boats and love to compare the pros and cons of each.

After owning many boats, my V20 gives me a lot of versatility and excellent fuel economy (470 I/O)

Usually, the trade off with deep V boats is the ride in rough seas but poor at drift. I found my V20 to be excellent ride (with trim tabs) and excellent at drift.

I was wondering if any one can compare the ride of a Bertram 20 with the V20? Bertrams have an excellent reputation for build quality but I am not concerned with that. My V20 was stripped down to the stringers and rebuilt rock solid with all new wiring.

I would thing the Bertram would not do as well at drift and would offer a comparable ride to a V20 with trim tabs.

Any input?

[THEFERMANATOR]

I haven't ridden in a BERTRAM 20, but they are one SERIOUSLY DEEP V hull. The V-20 is a 20 degree deadrise hull at the stern, the BERTRAM 20 is 25 and some versions of it are said to be 28 degrees. They need alot of HP to push them because of the deep V with most having a V-8 inboard in them or a LARGE outboard. And being 20 feet with that deep of a V, I imagine it would rock like no tommorrow in a drift. I've read that even at anchor they can whip you around if there is much of a sea. In all honesty they are 2 completely different classes of boats. The V-20 is more of a practical all around hull VS the BERTRAM 20 with it's extrem deep V.

[bigshrimpin]

Bertram 20 / hiliner222 hull is a deeper v than the v20 steplift. 24 degrees vs 20 degrees. couldn't help myself for $200.00

http://www.wellcraftv20.com/gallery/albums/album211/WIN_20140420_162325.jpg

[bigshrimpin]

Ferm - I think the Bertram Barron was 28 degrees.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Ferm - I think the Bertram Barron was 28 degrees.

I know it was one of the 20 footers had the ridiculous 28 degree V to it. Could you imagine being in a drift with a following sea and a 28 degree V bottom.

[bigshrimpin]

Barron with the crazy dead rise was longer . . . I think 28 ft or so. The 20's were 24 or 25. I'm pretty sure. Hi liners are almost identical to the 20 Bertram. They are a later more refined hunt design . . . With 2 strakes instead or 3. Rumor has it that the conch 27 was a bigger version of the hiliner 222 hull with some tweaks.

[bradford]

Bertram Barons came in 20, 24, and 28 foot lengths.

Conch 27s have 22.5 degrees.
http://www.randrboatworks.com/conch27.php

That's a great deal on that Hiliner, Bigshrimpin'!

Love classic style V hulls!

[THEFERMANATOR]

I believe teh CONCH was built off of a FORMULA 233 copy with some SEACRAFT transom design with multi stage V bottom. It was a unique hull design from down in the keys. I haven't seen but one or two myself, but I know they were very popular guide boats in south Florida.

And the BERTRAM 20 BARROn is a DEEP V sucker.
http://20ftbertrambaron.com/images/albums/NewAlbum_54e72/baron12.jpg
Heres one running at speed. Look at how much of the V is out of the water.
http://www.nationalpowerboat.com/user/gimage/hot_shot2THURS_WEB_320_143.jpg

[bigshrimpin]

[QUOTE=THEFERMANATOR;213395]I believe teh CONCH was built off of a FORMULA 233 copy with some SEACRAFT transom design with multi stage V bottom. It was a unique hull design from down in the keys. I haven't seen but one or two myself, but I know they were very popular guide boats in south Florida.



Ferm - my grandma's neighbor John Harding owned edey and duff in Mattapoisett. Conch 27 is an original hunt design . . . Has zero influence from formula or seacraft. They sold the conch molds to the guys in fl before closing the doors. 20 Bertram is a beast. You might be right about the little baron. I have seen a 28 baron in San Rafael, ca and dead rise is ridiculous.

[spareparts]

didn't the 27 Seacraft has some ridiculous dead rise? I think I saw one near Jacksonville, NC. I was riding down the road and my "seacraft" radar went off, I could see the trademark running strakes, but the boat was huge and the dead rise was excessive.

[bigshrimpin]

Spares - The 25 seacraft seafari has a 25.5 degree deadrise it's crazy too.

http://www.classicseacraft.com/Seafari25.htm

Navatek LTD in Hawaii spent 5 years and some ungodly amount of money tweaking the hull design on the 25 seafari to develop their 9meter SAM Unmanned Surface Vessel.

http://www.navatekltd.com/sam.html

http://www.navatekltd.com/images/sam2.jpg

This is a Utube video of one of the test boats loaded down

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln3Y1A_RNCM


I got one of these sitting behind my house now . . . : ) Waiting for a motor ( and my kidney stones to quit )

http://www.wellcraftv20.com/gallery/albums/album190/seafari.jpg

[dan4836]

Does anyone know how the Wellcraft V20 compares to the Seacraft 20?

I am assuming that the Seacraft will ride better but I don't know if a 20' boat can get much smoother than my V20 with tabs?

I cruise around 21 knots and with a little tabs I never pounded. I only owned my V20 for one year and had some nice 15 to 20 northeast winds while fishing out of Shark River inlet and the boat handled perfect.

Also, at rest, my V20 is very stable. Some of these great sea boats that have very deep V's have their own cons such as: a lot of power needed to push and terrible at drift.

I owned a 29' Phoenix and it was great trolling and running. Chucking for tuna or even fishing for stripers in the Delaware Bay was tough because the boat would rock something fierce.

[bigshrimpin]

I've owned both a v20 steplift and various 20 seacrafts (two seacraft seafari's, one seacraft 20MA, and one 18 seacraft) in the last 10 years. They are both excellent boats. v20 is a bit larger and has more room. I now run a 23 seacraft which is a great boat too.

http://www.wellcraftv20.com/gallery/albums/album204/2013_10_28_18_50_19_132.sized.jpg

V20 is a great stable platform for fishing. In a head sea the ride is really good. Quartering will knock your fillings out. Following sea can be downright dangerous when the bow digs in. Overall it's a great boat. I fished my v20 40 miles offshore more than a few times. I stuffed the bow once on stellwagen bank and knocked the windshield into the cockpit. I would have never sold the boat except that I moved cross country.

20 seacraft is like a magic carpet in small chop. It's really a bay boat (so is every 20ft boat except maybe the bertram). Quartering . . . you can get the boat to pound if you don't use tabs to roll the hull a bit. The boat tracks nice straight in following seas. Anything over 2ft seas will put you airborne if you are trying to go faster than 22mph. This boat can get you in trouble, b/c it'll handle some pretty big water, but it's not the best decision to be out in there in this little boat. You could push the 20 seacraft very well with a 90hp - 115hp . . . if you get one DO NOT put a heavy motor on the back. 400lbs is about the max you want to do with a 25" transom. with a 20" transom I would stick with an inline 6 tower of power (275lb).

[RidgeRunner]

Cadillac style right there BS. I see you over there at CSC. That is one super 23 right there. Good write-up too. If V-20 had a Gucci Award for other, you got my vote. :beer:

[bradford]

Damn.... Got some serious wood.

Especially that 25 running through the chop.....Damn...

Bigshrimpin, I posted a few of those In the For Sale section off craigslist with you in mind. Both were in New York I think.

Yup, here they are:

http://wellcraftv20.com/community/showthread.php?t=19928

Might have been the same boat, although I thought they looked different. $1800 might be pricey though for a project boat.

Yours is SWEET!

The last time I loaded the V on the trailer a truck was backing down with a restored incognito Seacraft 23. Hot girl at the helm who then backed her off the trailer turned in the channel and planed off all by her lonesome.

The Wifey thought she was pretty cool too.

[dan4836]

The 23 Seacraft is one of my favorite but I never was able to sea trial...

As soon as you get a little bigger than the V20, the power you need to push goes way up and so does the fuel bill.

I bought my V20 because I can run this all over without worrying about the fuel bill. I have the Mercruiser 470 and this is by far the most economic boat I ran. Before my V20, I had a 17 Aquasport with a Evinrude 88SPL. My V gets about twice the fuel economy.

I was out with a friend in a 24 Rampage - the boat is a tank but with a single V8 it's slow and terrible on the MPG.

[bigshrimpin]

Dan - The 23 seacraft isn't too bad on fuel. Almost identical to my v20 with a 200 yamaha.

Bradford - That guy in NY with the 25 was a nut bag. He posted on the CSC site that he took the boat and had it crushed at the Nassau County Landfill. I know people that offered him full price.

Please post some pics of the seacraft lady . . . That must have been a real site to see.

[dan4836]

That's good to know...

I thought the 23 Seacraft would be terrible because of the deep V. I guess the strakes really help.

[inaforty]

Big Shrimpin,
Great video!

This one list on Cape Cod

http://capecod.craigslist.org/boa/4433503231.html

[spareparts]

the Seacraft is very fuel efficient, the inverted strakes aerate the hull longitudinally, its kinda hard to see whats going on unless you run in another boat beside one. We ran a 23 with a single 225 Opti from Charleston to the Georgetown hole and back(55 miles one way) on about 38 gallons. I was way too rough to fish, but the boat handled it well. The 20 Seacraft is a great inshore boat, but its not in the same class as the 23

[bigshrimpin]

That's good to know...

I thought the 23 Seacraft would be terrible because of the deep V. I guess the strakes really help.

The variable deadrise makes it plane real easily. outer panels are about 10 degrees.

This is from the professional boat builder article. One of the unmentioned boats competing for the contract mentioned below was supposedly the Alim v20 which was already being used by military.

http://www.classicseacraft.com/brochures/mrmoesly/index.html

http://www.classicseacraft.com/brochures/mrmoesly/medium/0009.jpg

this was a pic of the v20 and the powercat going to war . . . note the comments.

http://www.wellcraftv20.com/gallery/albums/history/bay_of_pigs_001.jpg

[THEFERMANATOR]

The 23 Seacraft is one of my favorite but I never was able to sea trial...

As soon as you get a little bigger than the V20, the power you need to push goes way up and so does the fuel bill.

I bought my V20 because I can run this all over without worrying about the fuel bill. I have the Mercruiser 470 and this is by far the most economic boat I ran. Before my V20, I had a 17 Aquasport with a Evinrude 88SPL. My V gets about twice the fuel economy.

I was out with a friend in a 24 Rampage - the boat is a tank but with a single V8 it's slow and terrible on the MPG.

I don't know about this. I had to downsize and dropped down to a 16 foot JON boat. Even with my old school 35HP JOHNSON 2 smoke, I still only burned a bit over 3 gallons for 4 hours of riding on the river. I miss having a big boat, but the fuel bill of this JON boat is NICE in comparison. At $5 a gallon for ethanol free down here, I will stay downsized for awhile. It's bad enough having to put that $4 a gallon go juice in the BURB just to get out on the water.