new member... recent 79 v20 cuddy purchase

[billmongold]

hey guys, glad to be active.
a little background on me; i live in waretown, nj (i noticed quite a few fellow nj v20'ers) and have grown up on the water and my parents always had boats growing up (13' whaler, 17' whaler, bertram moppie, 30, larson, and 36' pacemaker sportsfisherman). I currently work at Viking Yachting Center in new gretna, nj as a marine technician. its quite a difference being used to a late 70's pacemaker and thne jumping on a 2013 viking 74' enclosed bride convertible, lol.

anyways i have recently purchased a '79 wellcraft v20 cuddy with an '85 yamaha precision blend 150 outboard. the boat needs a few things but it's the first vessel that i have ever owned and feel as though i got a good deal ($50 with trailer). boat seems solid but the under deck fuel tank is not being used (6 gal portable fuel tank on board). also there is premixed 2 stroke gas in the tank (which worries me; i'd like to have the precision blend system working, even though i am not familiar with it. i do have vro experience though. seats are missing on the boat and it looks like someone tried to patch bolt holes on the cockpit deck (poorly). paint is faded and wiring is super messy, but its nothing that can't be fixed. there are no electronics on the boat. tried to fire the yammie up yesterday after installing a good battery and it has stale gas so i'll need to rebuild the carbs before i can update on how it runs, but it will fire on starting fluid (i know not the best idea but i wanted to know if i rebuilt the carbs that it would run). the tilt support lever is also rusted up so i can't use it. plus i had a trailer tire blowout on her maiden (trailered) voyage home.

I'm happy to be a member of the site. i've been browsing around and it seems as there is a wealth of knowledge on this site. it's nice to see reference pictures of completed boats, because mine is missing seats and all kinds of stuff. thanks for having me, guys. on to the pics.


http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e8/billmongold/Mobile%20Uploads/20140322_175108_zps5b756738.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/billmongold/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140322_175108_zps5b756738.jpg.html)


http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e8/billmongold/Mobile%20Uploads/20140322_175138_zps03869cb3.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/billmongold/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140322_175138_zps03869cb3.jpg.html)

[Destroyer]

For $50 you got a steal. First things first... welcome to the site! Happy you found us!! Since there are so many different things you just mentioned I will suggest that you DO NOT try to do everything at once. Take small steps.. do one project at a time. First, check the transom and the floor for soft spots. If they pass then clean it so you're not working in dirt with every repair. If it were me I'd check out the tank first, and once that's clean and I knew it wasn't leaking then I'd go to the wiring, then the engine. Once the major things are up and working like they should, I'd start on the cosmetics, like the floor holes, seats, etc. Get the majors done first. Just don't lose heart. You have a lot of work in front of you, but in the end you'll have one of the best damn boats in it's size that's ever been made, and you'll turn heads everyplace you go.

[billmongold]

thanks man, i appreciate it. after seeing all the posts on bad stringers and transoms, i'm terrified to check them. i'm going to do all the mechanical stuff first then worry about making it pretty. i was just going to buy and sell it but i brought me 13 month old daughter aboard to see it. i sat her in the helm on my lap and she was laughing and playing with the controls and steering. at that point i decided i should give her the same nautical experience i had as a child (my girlfriend is not as happy about me keeping the boat as i am, seeing as how it needs so much work/money). but the first time i take them tubing in the bay i'm sure she will see it differently. :sly:

[Striper80]

$50 sounds like a steal. You've got a bit of work ahead of you but they're definitely a good riding boat. Once I got my boat home in October I put my daughter on it in the yard and she loved it too, definitely a good feeling. Best of luck with your project.
On my 82 Grady the tank had a lot of sediment in it but wasn't leaking. I flushed it out and painted it with coal tar epoxy. I got a nice price on the fill and vent hoses on amazon.

[billmongold]

im just worried because a previous owner bypassed it. i may pull it out and have a local aluminum tank place pressure test it. if it has some leaks it may be worth getting welded patched? i was contemplating throwing a 15 gal portable tank on board but they are expensive. if im going to spend $200 on a small tank, i may as well spend 400 on a todd plastic belly tank. all the hoses and stuff i can get at work at a discount. and if they dont have it, we're a yamaha dealer and can get stuff from mesco and a few other places.

[Striper80]

I got extremely lucky with mine. It had a few pits but nothing perforated the tank.

[billmongold]

Hopefully its bypassed for some dumb reason, but it seems like these boats have water retention problems in that area. At least from what ive read on here. Plus my boat is on the older side

[Destroyer]

My 78's tank still holds gas with no leaks. Think twice about pulling the tank though. From what I've seen by members here who have done it, it's not the easiest job in the world. The foam grabs and holds it like a suction cup. Flush it out, clean it, then check for leaks.

[buckleyjr]

Welcome to the site! Glad to see another Jersey V on the site. Good luck with her.

[dan4836]

Great boat and can't go wrong with the price!

I paid too much for my boat ($2,500.) but I did get a good trailer and the engine is in great shape ( I have the I/O 470)

I will be boating out of Point Pleasant this year and will do some boating in the Barneget Bay. I am currently redoing floors and stringers and fuel tank.

I am putting a lot of money into the boat but in the end, I will have an awesome 20 foot machine!

Take a look at my pics for current work. I am redoing my console the way I want it and found a 52 gallon polly tank.

You will find a lot of great advice from the members on this site

Dan

[Destroyer]

Great boat and can't go wrong with the price!

I paid too much for my boat ($2,500.) but I did get a good trailer and the engine is in great shape ( I have the I/O 470)

I will be boating out of Point Pleasant this year and will do some boating in the Barneget Bay. I am currently redoing floors and stringers and fuel tank.

I am putting a lot of money into the boat but in the end, I will have an awesome 20 foot machine!

Take a look at my pics for current work. I am redoing my console the way I want it and found a 52 gallon polly tank.

You will find a lot of great advice from the members on this site

Dan

Dan, about 2 years ago, I missed a deal on a really sweet V21 with a 200 Yammy on it, full enclosure, etc etc. I thought the price (@$6800) was too pricey. Well, I changed my mind and called the guy to tell him I wanted the boat.. only to find that it had been sold a few hours earlier. These boats can go for free up to $15,000...so for $2500 I think you did ok.

Value, like beauty, is in the eyes of the beholder. I really don't think you paid too much. Hell, I paid $3400 for my 78, and I think I got a deal. My point is, whatever you pay for anything, that is it's value, at that time, under whatever the circumstances. If you were literally dying of thirst, wouldn't you gladly pay $10 (or more) for a bottle of water? See? Everything is relative.

[bradford]

Welcome to the Cult!

Brownies and Kool Aid refreshments will be served at 0200.

[Striper80]

My 78's tank still holds gas with no leaks. Think twice about pulling the tank though. From what I've seen by members here who have done it, it's not the easiest job in the world. The foam grabs and holds it like a suction cup. Flush it out, clean it, then check for leaks.

I forgot that the tanks are foamed in on these boats. On my Grady it was held in only by wood and my Wellcraft has a poly tank.

[billmongold]

Thanks for the support guys. Glad i found this site. How do you go about flushing the tank? I not with water, correct? And then you pressure test i would think i could apply like 20 psi to the fuel inlet and have a gauge on the vent tube?

[SkunkBoat]

As someone who has replaced a tank on an '84, I would recommend pulling the tank now and getting it over with. It might pressure test ok now and leak gas sometime during the summer with a full 60 gals in the tank.

In hindsight, its not that hard to pull the tank.. When you're doing it, its a pain. When you are done you say "oh thats it?" and you get to see what 30 years of salt does to aluminum. Mine was not leaking but it looked scary down where the foam covered it.

If you pull it and it looks good, it'll be easy to clean out and put back in. And you won't be worried about it.

[billmongold]

good info. it not too worried about it being a pain in the rear to pull the tank. it would be good peace of mind being that my 1 year old daughter will eventually be on board.

dan4836- more info on that poly tank you found, please. and how did it fit?also, what do you guys to hold the tank in after you reinstall it?

[bgreene]

Look forward to seeing it set up - best of luck with it.

[bradford]

Yea, the tank is just a pain in the butt/messy job, not really that hard. I cut most of my foam out with a pressure washer. Mine had holes the size of your fist! I would recommend a new one, or a used good condition plastic/moeller type tank.

[billmongold]

oh i like that pressure washer idea. may get some of the crap out from under the tank as well. id rather find out the tank leaks while the boat is on the trailer than when im miles from home. i dont need a whole lot of range, boat will probably be used primarily for tubing/possible light fishing/ticesmobile. i think tices is like 3 miles from me. im prettymuch across the bay.

if i were to pull the tank and it checks out ok how would i go about re-installing it? what kind of foam do you guys use? and i would probable replace the pvc pipe with a larger diameter one (to help prevent clogs [at least in my mind]) and glass the pipe in around the opening to prevent water from getting into the foam. is that a good idea or would that be a no no?

[Destroyer]

oh i like that pressure washer idea. may get some of the crap out from under the tank as well. id rather find out the tank leaks while the boat is on the trailer than when im miles from home. i dont need a whole lot of range, boat will probably be used primarily for tubing/possible light fishing/ticesmobile. i think tices is like 3 miles from me. im prettymuch across the bay.

if i were to pull the tank and it checks out ok how would i go about re-installing it? what kind of foam do you guys use? and i would probable replace the pvc pipe with a larger diameter one (to help prevent clogs [at least in my mind]) and glass the pipe in around the opening to prevent water from getting into the foam. is that a good idea or would that be a no no?

Cut the new hole the same size (just lightly larger) than the pipe, then use 5200 to seal the hole. No need to glass it in, the 5200 will seal it perfectly.

As to the tank, if you're just looking to hold it in place then Great Stuff or any aerosol foam will do. However, if you want the added flotation of the foam, then you'll have to buy one of the kits you can find on eBay made for underdeck flotation. Just remember that ALL foam, no matter what brand or kind, will eventually absorb water and hold it like a sponge. That in turn will add weight to your boat, plus it will rot out any wood under the deck, including your flooring and stringers. So what you really want, is to try with all your might to keep your underdeck area DRY!!!... Seal all cracks, holes (including through the gunnel rod holders) and basically anyplace else you can think of that might let water into the underdeck area.

[billmongold]

That sounds good. Didnt think of using 5200. Ive been thinking a lot lately about fabricating a central drain system like newer vikings have. Its basically 1 1.5 inch length of waste hose run along the port and stbd gunwale, slightly downhill, leading to a through hull aft. You plumb anything you want to drain into the hose. Vikings use it for a/c discharge, bulge pump discharge, shower box discharge, etc. It would work great on our boats for the same reason. Plumb the rod holders and anything else you want in there, install a through hull, and never worry about it again. Ive also been think about building a hybrid self bailing deck/showerbox system where id tee off the self bailing drain hose, install a ball valve, and run it to a showerbox (a sealed box things can drain into with a bilge pump and float switch to pump it out. This way you can drain things low and pump it out to a through hull placed up high). It like to consolidate things and be able to seal the bailers for when my boat is sitting low in the water.

[tartuffe]

Do not go any higher than around 3 PSI, 20 PSI would blow your tank to bits. Pump her up and see if she holds. One possibility is the PO thought the tank was leaking when it was really just the fuel level sensor seal that went bad. When mine went out you would have thought the tank was cut in two so much fuel was able to pour out when accelerating.

If it does leak, as far as pulling the tank, a saws all run around the perimeter makes quick work of it. Wedge the chunks out with a nail puller or a wonder bar.

Personally I would stick with the premix setup vs, the oiler.

[tartuffe]

http://www.uscomposites.com/foam.html

They sell the foam you would be looking for. You would use a 4 LB foam underneath the tank and 2 LB on the sides. When I set my tank I used some blues styrofoam squares to get the tank at my ideal height and distance from the sides. Then used large clamps to keep the expanding from raising the tank as it expanded.

[smokeonthewater]

even 3 lbs could do serious damage to the tank, the boat, and possibly your body.. think about it that's 3 lbs of pressure for each square inch... if the tank were 50" x24"x 18" You would have 15,192 lbs of force at only 3 psi!

Places that pressure test fuel tanks use less than 1 psi often with the tank submerged to look for bubbles or have the tank in a special box that supports all sides and is strong enough to withstand the pressure

My advice is that you completely forget pressure testing it or having it tested.... just rip it out and put in a new tank n be done with it.

[tartuffe]

When I tested my tank I tested at 3 psi. I personally wouldn't offer advice if I had not done the research. But don't take my word for it.

http://www.uscgboating.org/regulations/boatbuilder_s_handbook/fuel_standards_partq.aspx

[bradford]

http://wellcraftv20.com/community/showthread.php?t=19952

[billmongold]

just spoke with the previous owner yesterday... it was bypassed because the gas is a few years old and he didnt wanna clean it.. on to my next question. how do you thoroughly clean a tank with varnished gas?

[Striper80]

First I'd try and pump out what's in there and see what it looks like. Who knows you might find a little water on the bottom with some gas you could run through your lawn mower on top. My Grady had 20 gal of gas in it, pre-mixed unfortunately, with a bunch of sediment in the bottom. I took all the gas out,put a little fresh gas in the bottom and sucked out the leftover sediment with my air powered brake bleeder. The gas in my tank was only a year old though.

I just went back and read that your tank was full of premixed gas. I guess your in the same boat as me. I'm just hanging onto my gas until May when my county,Essex, has a hazardous waste drop off day in May.

[billmongold]

The 6 gal has premix. Idk whats in the on board tank.

[smokeonthewater]

When I tested my tank I tested at 3 psi. I personally wouldn't offer advice if I had not done the research. But don't take my word for it.

http://www.uscgboating.org/regulations/boatbuilder_s_handbook/fuel_standards_partq.aspx

That test is for a NEW tank outside of a boat.... A 20-30 year old tank could have significant corrosion and could rupture at MUCH less pressure than a new one.

I wasn't intending to attack you... Just offering my own advice.... I too have a little experience with fuel tanks.

Either way it sounds like maybe his tank is ok.

BTW old gas can be easily burned 1 gallon at a time in an old coffee can

[bradford]

Assume the tank and everything below deck has been taken care of as good or worse as the easy to get to/easy to clean and maintain parts above deck.

Then go back and look at your first pictures in this thread.

Rotted fuel tanks are one of the common problems on V20's which were a massed produced vessel. Yours was built during the roaring economy of the Carter years.

Personally I wouldn't trust a 35-36 year old tank built by the lowest bidder and installed in a marine environment with questionable care from the previous owners.

I still think you got an awesome deal!

[RABBITFISH]

A while back I discovered that my tank was leaking. I did wind up pulling it and replacing it with a new one. I purchased a new tank manufactured by http://sunshinemarinetanks.net/. I drew up a diagram with the exact measurements from the old tank and it was a perfect size replacement. Prior to installation I coated it with coal tar epoxy, the foam I bought from the place mentioned in a previous post. It was a struggle to get the tank out but once I got it figured out, with much help from the forum here, I now have such peace of mind knowing that I have a new tank under my feet. It was not expensive, doing all the work myself, and taking my time with it. I did not want to take any chances with a leaking fuel tank. Good luck and welcome home!:sun:

[RABBITFISH]

Yes here is the site where I got the foam from..http://www.uscomposites.com/foam.html
Great stuff, and it is the kind that does not absorb water..

[billmongold]

i only live a few miles from sp tanks in barnegat (http://www.sptanks.com/webdev/home.htm) so if i wanted any work done id end up calling them. my budget is pretty tight on this boat (26 year old dad trying to make ends meet) but i think im going to at least pull it and check for corrosion/fill it with water and see if it holds. maybe fill it with water and give it a few pumps with a bicycle tire inflator. if all checks out than maybe coat it with por-15 or something similar. if you arent familiar with por-15, i strongly suggest you check them out. im trying to make the boat as safe and reliable as possible without breaking the bank. i should have some time this weekend to pull the tank, rebuild the carbs, and check out all the wiring (ensure bilge pump operation, check gauges, etc.) so anticipate some pictures. thanks for all the help and opinions so far guys (and gals if so applies).

[shurlock]

hello and welcome to the site I am fairly new myselfmy rig cost me twenty eight hundred so you did pretty good I got a real nice trailer brand new bimini topand a brand new Lawrence depth finder still got some work to do in mine but I'm excited about it

[billmongold]

what have you guys paid for replacement tanks?

[smokeonthewater]

quite often the tank is destroyed in the process of removal.... I maintain that even on a tight budget, if you are going to go to the effort of removing, replace it...
ALSO filling with water is NOT a good test as gasoline being thinner will leak out of a tiny pinhole that water even under pressure will not
Found that out first hand

[billmongold]

Thats good to know. Ill just try to clean it in the boat and see what happens. Worst case ill run off the little tank. I dont wanna open a $400+ can of worms. Damn boats.

[Pipe_Dream]

A while back I discovered that my tank was leaking. I did wind up pulling it and replacing it with a new one. I purchased a new tank manufactured by http://sunshinemarinetanks.net/. I drew up a diagram with the exact measurements from the old tank and it was a perfect size replacement. Prior to installation I coated it with coal tar epoxy, the foam I bought from the place mentioned in a previous post. It was a struggle to get the tank out but once I got it figured out, with much help from the forum here, I now have such peace of mind knowing that I have a new tank under my feet. It was not expensive, doing all the work myself, and taking my time with it. I did not want to take any chances with a leaking fuel tank. Good luck and welcome home!:sun:

Great link. What did you pay for your tank?

[Destroyer]

Yes here is the site where I got the foam from..http://www.uscomposites.com/foam.html
Great stuff, and it is the kind that does not absorb water..

Rabbitfish, I'm sorry to have to tell you, but ALL foam will eventually absorb water... Open cell, closed cell, it makes no difference. These forums are filled with posts from guys that opened their decks because of soft spots, only to find that their stringers and under deck wood had rotted away... and in the process found out that the foam in their bilges was saturated with hundreds and hundreds of pounds of water. If you go to most foam manufacturers websites you'll see disclaimers in the fine print stating that their foam is not recommended for continuous immersion in water. In fact, this quote is from the site you posted the link to: This foam is approximately 95-98% closed cell which resists absorbing water, however continuous water submersion can eventually lead to loss of buoyancy over a period of years. Now granted, it may take several years for the foam to start absorbing the water, but eventually all foam will. The ONLY cure to keep foam from absorbing water is to not let it get wet in the first place. Seal all deck hatches, fix all cracks and holes in rod racks, seal and cap all rod holders... in short, do all you can to keep water out of your hull. Your deck, stringers, transom, foam, tank and wallet will thank you for it in the long run. :head:

[captpete13]

I used a Moeller tank in my boat. 55 gallons and it fit right in place of the old one. http://www.wellcraftv20.com/community/showthread.php?t=13214&page=5

[SkunkBoat]

what have you guys paid for replacement tanks?

$550 at Atlantic Coastal Welding in Bayville NJ. Thicker than original & more baffles

[bradford]

$550 at Atlantic Coastal Welding in Bayville NJ. Thicker than original & more baffles

Same for me from Mattson & Co in Tampa Fla.

[Pipe_Dream]

I had to look back . . .

I paid $488 for tank and sending unit built for me by Triple M in West Kennebunk, Maine. Of course, that was 10 years ago.

[billmongold]

550 at atlantic coastal? isnt that place at the intersection with the quickcheck? my buddy had something small welded there and they charged him an arm and a leg. if i do replace it, id probably go composite. i saw westmarine has a todd 55g tank for 361. plus id get it cheaper through work.

http://www.westmarine.com/permanent-fuel-tanks/todd--55-gallon-v-bottom-belly-fuel-tank--118150

[bradford]

550 at atlantic coastal? isnt that place at the intersection with the quickcheck? my buddy had something small welded there and they charged him an arm and a leg. if i do replace it, id probably go composite. i saw westmarine has a todd 55g tank for 361. plus id get it cheaper through work.

http://www.westmarine.com/permanent-fuel-tanks/todd--55-gallon-v-bottom-belly-fuel-tank--118150

Thats a good deal if the dimensions fit.

[steplift20]

6she looks like a nice boat, 1st welcome to the site , these guys here are twerrific and will always give you good advice, belive me i asked them hundreds of questions, whats going to suck is when you clean your boat up and the guy who gave it to you [cause thats what he did] hes going to hound you for her back so get ready to say no alot, i bet after you clean her shes going to look great and like they said go slow with her and let your daughter help cause when shes older shes going to want her too, send pics when you clean her like to se it

[buckleyjr]

There is a guy in South Jersey that my mechanic (Port Monmouth Marine) uses up by me. Sea Kleen Marine Maintenance. He has a truck and comes to your boat and tests the tank and empties and cleans the tank. I can't find the receipt but remember thinking this guy was reasonable.

His number is 609 693 4535. His name is John. May be worth calling him to see what he thinks. Plus he's in your neck of the woods. Best of luck!

[SkunkBoat]

yes, near the Quickcheck. Butler Blvd.

Getting an aluminum one made to match old is going to cost you $100 or so more than a stock one or a stock plastic one but the fittings will be in the exact right spot with the right angle. You won't have to re-route the hoses. I looked at the Moeller plastic tanks and could not find one where the fittings were the same. $100 was worth not having to mess around.

The moeller tank in captpetes thread looks like it would work on my boat. I was finding ones with the fittings angled differently.

[bradford]

Just a thought, If you put in a different aftermarket tank, be sure to have the filler neck on the forward side. Another member put a different tank in with the filler towards the stern and had problems. Gas coming out the vent when planing out, and an air bubble trapped in the tank when refueling that would pressurize and blow fuel back out the vent and filler.

This still looks like a deal to me:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/49-gal-Plastic-gas-tank-with-fuel-level-from-1995-Wellcraft-SC210-/271351725179?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item3f2dd2bc7b&vxp=mtr

Might just buy it myself.