Govt. Shutdown

[RidgeRunner]

What it means to me:

I'm still trying to figure it out.. Anyone?

[RWilson2526]

Well I just went to check the NOAA forecast for the week/weekend and the site says:

Due to the Federal government shutdown,
NOAA.gov and most associated web sites
are unavailable.

Only web sites necessary to protect lives
and property will be maintained.

See Weather.gov for critical weather
information or contact USA.gov for more
information about the shutdown.

NOAA Federal Employees: For access to the
Notice to Federal Employees About Unemployment
Insurance (SF-8), please Click Here.

[smokeonthewater]

so far it hasn't DIRECTLY affected me but I still think it's crap.... we ABSOLUTELY need to make major cuts and get this country out of debt.... at the same time we need big taxes on imported goods and exported jobs.

[RWilson2526]

So other than this....nothing so far.

[garagenc]

Here's my take on it:

With the Govt shutdown we should be able to hunt or fish any migratory bird or fish since there ain't no govt.
JUST SAYN :butt:

[RidgeRunner]

I got an e-mail from FWC. (Florida Wildlife Commission) To paraphrase: State Parks will remain Open and FWC officers would be on duty, as per normal.

All Federal Parks CLOSED.

I saw a blurb about some WWII Vets that were scheduled to rendevous at the Memorial in DC today. The police allowed them to pass by the barricades to make it to the otherwise closed venue. That is a good thing. Some people have some common sense still.

Bad thing is I hear Congress is still getting a paycheck.

Wilson, With respect to NOAA- we could close them down forever. Our local newsies can get it done with respect to calling the weather. You know 50/50. Heck I could do it without Doppler. LOL
Let the Fishery people find new jobs, away from the guberment and off our nickel. Then we can get some thinkers in there instead of a load of horse pucky that we have today.
Do you recall the guy from New Bedford that lost his boat for fishing in an alleged closed area, fined for it and then summarily dismissed as guilty without a trial by NOAA. They pulled his ticket and his life savings. Then a few enforcement guys from NOAA embezzle the fine money by taking lavish government sponsored vacations and huge bonus checks. It was exposed on Dan Rather Reports a few months ago IIRC.
Gut the MFer. :beer::cen:

[Blue_Runner]

I'm trying to figure out if Linville falls national forest in NC is still open. Would like to take the family camping there soon. The folks at Cape Hatteras National seashore are still trying to figure out what it means. I don't believe they can access the beach via ORV, still unclear on pedestrian access.

Other than that who knows.

[spareparts]

if its National, its closed. Local shooting ranges in the Francis Marion are closed

[RidgeRunner]

Irony, "We the people" paid for the Parks, upkeep, etc. but the Govt. closure prevents us from using what we already bought and paid for thousands of times over.... I guess if it stays closed long enough those in charge of keeping the people out will give up and we will be able to use the lands for recreational purposes again.. Then because people are (in general) a bunch of slobs with little or no respect for the property of others, it will take no time to trash the place up and ruin the infrastructure beyond repair. Thinking of what happened at the Superdome in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

I don't think we have much down here that is run by the Feds.
I just heard someone say Fort Desoto Monument? I have been to Ft. Desoto Park, the whole damn park is Federally controlled? Pay to use the Bayway, Pay to get in the gate pay to use the ramp or park, or camp. Automated machine is/was there to take your money for the boat ramp and parking. We can certainly do without all that BS.
Too many FREE places to go... I say now is the time to cut it all back to the bare essentials like it was in the beginning.

[smokeonthewater]

While we're at it let's start deporting people for things like vandalism and theft and MAYBE we won't NEED so much government

[jasoncooperpcola]

I can't get my kayak into Fort Pickens for a straight shot offshore to my snapper hole. I have an annual pass too.

[RidgeRunner]

Interesting to what extent (as a percentage) our government is deemed non-essential. EPA 93% , 97% of NASA. What a waste of resources to have it all shut down. Progress is a perishable item in my book. Why is the solution always revolve around: "Leverage the working man!"? Neither the Dems nor Repubs give a rats patooty about the working class. (public or private sector jobs don't mean anything to a fat cat in Congress or on Wall Street, they would sooner leave us to twist in the wind)
Meanwhile, the stock market is booming..I gotta ask, WHY? The economy is not only sluggish it can't get out of its own way. Growth at a half a percent. Major cities like Detroit failing. Manufacturing at an all time low. Why is Wall Street so profitable right now? Do they get a healthy cut of Obamacare dollars or what? The dollar is so anemic and weak, the strength of the market at 15,000 is like 9,000 of days gone by.. We have superinflation and noone is talking about it.

[Pipe_Dream]

Someone forgot to shutter this site... :laugh:

http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/GulfCoastViewerTable.shtml

[Destroyer]

RidgeRunner. Since you asked what it meant to you I'll post the following editorial.

WARNING!!! The following editorial is by Glenn Beck, and everyone knows he's some right wing kook. The fact that he happens to tell the TRUTH is irrelevant. People offended by reading the truth should click on another topic now to avoid it.

“With regards to the shutdown, now they are coming out and saying the President will negotiate, but it’s the Republicans fault. Let me just give you a list of what has happened, what they have closed down,” Glenn said. “And this is what you need to tell your friends. This is what you need to Facebook. This is what you need to tweet: 15% of the government is shut down. What business is so lean that, if they shut down 15%, they go into massive chaos? Certainly not the government… So here’s what’s happened. And you tell me who’s negotiating and who’s inflicting pain.”

“Treatments for children suffering from cancer. The Republicans have agreed to a compromise by funding the part of the government, including the National Institute of Health, which offers children with cancer last chance experimental treatment… The NIH was told by the President, ‘You can’t start any new testing of anything.’ As soon as the Republicans found out about it, they said, ‘Not a problem. Let’s make sure that we fund the NIH. We’ll pass a special bill to fund the NIH so we can save children,’” Glenn explained. “If that’s what you really picked out of the 100% of the pie, you only need to shut down 15%, if that’s what you pick, we’ll fund that. So [Republicans] said, ‘We’ll pass it.” The President said he will veto it if it gets to his desk. That’s the compromise.”
“World War II Memorial is open 24 hours a day, seven days a week. It doesn’t have a staff to it. It is maintained with private financing, built by private financing, maintained with private financing. So what do they do? They put a chain link fence around the World War II Memorial… You have your National Park Service coming out and saying, ‘We were told to inflict as much pain as possible,’” Glenn explained. “Then when the GOP finds out about it, and a congressmen removes the barricades one of the park rangers says, ‘Hey, you can’t do that’ and starts yelling at the people in the wheelchairs, what happens? The president raises the stakes and then says, ‘I’m going to put guards around that memorial.’ So he’s spending money. Does that seem reasonable to you? By the way, the GOP has offered to cover any costs to keep the memorial open for the greatest generation.”
“Then there’s the furloughed military chaplains. The military chaplains are not allowed to work for free. They have all said, ‘We will celebrate mass. We will do our services. We will do baptisms for free.’ They have been told they will be punished if they do it,” Glenn explained. “So you have a baby to be baptized; the military priest cannot baptize your child or he’ll go to jail. He can’t celebrate mass anywhere for free or he will go to jail. Does this sound reasonable to you at all?”
“In the Florida Keys small businesses, hunters, and commercial fishermen can no longer practice their trade,” he said. “They have tried to close down the ocean. The Feds are saying, ‘You can’t do any fishing on the ocean.’ Does this seem reasonable to you?”
“The American Forces Network, AFN, these are the people that carry shows like mine, they carry shows like… 50% of the shows have to be liberal. But they also not just broadcast the news and talk,” Glenn said. “They also bring our Armed Forces all of the sporting events, all the football games and everything else. The golf course at Camp David is deemed essential, but AFN carrying the football games, not doing them. Carrying them… is closed down. By the way, Camp David, the golf course and Camp David is open.”
“The D day Memorial. The GOP has offered to compromise and fund all of the National Parks,” Glenn explained. “The President has said he will veto any compromise on legislation. So the D day Memorial in Normandy has now been barricaded.”
“Mount Vernon, George Washington’s home, is privately funded. The Feds blocked the visitors from entering the parking area because the National Park Service maintains the lot… No federal money is used to operate any of these parks. In fact, the federal government makes money through the operation of these parks,” Glenn said. “He had them all closed down and so the 400 to 500 private employees have been furloughed. And by the way, they don’t get any of their money back. They're just destroyed.
“A self sustaining colonial farm that hasn’t received a dime of government money since 1980 has been closed for the first time in 40 years. The National Park Service has succeeded in closing the farm to the public. In the previous budget dramas, the farm has always been exempted because the government pays nothing, provides no staff, nor do they provide any resources to operate the farm,” he explained. “The President has closed the Vietnam Memorial. The GOP passed the compromised legislation that would fund the memorial, keep it open to the public, but the president said he would veto it.”
“The operator of a 51 room inn located on U.S. Government owned land in North Carolina abandoned his defiant stance on Thursday to keep his property open despite being ordered to shut down as part of the federal government shutdown. October is this inn’s prime season,” Glenn said. “The GOP has offered a compromise to open this particular park, but the President said no to that compromise. So here is a private individual that will lose out on the money that he makes money in his prime season. State troopers, by the way, have blocked the customers have entering the parking lot. How much are they spending on the state troopers? Again, Park Service ranger said, ‘We've been told to make life as difficult for people as we can.’”
“The President has forced residents out of their private homes – the government shutdown being felt close to home for some locals. They say they're being forced out of their private homes on Lake Mead because they sit on federal land,”
“A historic restaurant opened during the last shutdown, forced to close. An iconic Philadelphia restaurant been forced to close its doors and turned away book parties because of the government shutdown,” he said. “That is a private restaurant. They won’t get any money back.”
“There’s a road that goes through a Colorado park,” Glenn said. “The forest service announced the Pitkin County commissioners to order that Maroon Creek Road be shut down at the height of the tourist season, ahead of what is supposed to be one of the busiest weekends of the fall. The road is to be closed at T Lazy 7 Ranch pending the resolution of the shutdown.”
“And here’s my favorite. We joked about this. They actually did it. They are now blocking access to trails, roads, and programs at South Dakota’s most popular attraction,” Glenn explained. “The National Park Service has now placed cones along the highway outside of Mount Rushmore this weekend, barring visitors from stopping and looking at the mountain. You cannot stop on the road. And they have officers there to ticket you if you do.”
“The U.S. Department of Agriculture has gone and turned off its entire website in response to the government shutdown, leaving farmers, reporters, and others with no way to access any of the agency’s information online,” Glenn said. “The USDA’s total website goes far beyond response of other federal agencies. Seems to be part of an effort to make people feel the effects of the shutdown. Thursday morning calls to the USDA’s press office seeking an explanation were not answered.”
“The President has closed the Military Commissary. Military members and veterans and families who shop at the local tax free store were shocked to discover that the store’s doors had been locked. They have closed the PX. This is where you go and you shop if you’re a military family. This is at Andrews Air Force base. They have shut the commissary and they have shut the PX,” Glenn said. “So you can’t go buy any groceries, you can’t go buy any clothes, any medicine. You can’t go buy meat, nothing.”
But, not to worry, while the American people are adversely effected by the closing of privately funded businesses, monuments, and memorials around the country, the President can still enjoy some R&R at his favorite golf courses.

“However, the President’s golf course remains open. But he said that’s because the golf course is paid for by private funds. Wait a minute. So is the World War II Memorial. So is the farm. So is the restaurant. So is the damn road that you just put cones on,” Glenn said. “This is a strike and a slap across the face. This, I’m warning you, America, this is the sign of a dictator. He is slapping you across the face and saying, ‘You will behave. You will do what I tell you to do or I will punish you.’ If your friends don’t wake up and see the nonsense and see what they are in store for, when you’re spending money to put cones on the highway so people can’t stop and even see Mount Rushmore, we get everything we deserve. And we are about to get a lot.

So you see RidgeRunner, it's actually effecting all of us.. we just don't see it yet. (we're kinda like the sheep being led to the slaughter by the Judas goat).

[SkunkBoat]

In our country, we pass a bill in the house and senate, it gets signed by the president and it becomes law. If the law violates the constitution, the supreme court can strike it down. If it holds up, then it is the law. Period.:rule:

If you don't like it then you need to pass a new bill that says "never mind" in the house and senate and have it signed by the president. PERIOD.:rule:

This applies to all laws whether they were passed and/or signed by a Democrat or Republican. We can't let a handful of idiots change the way we do things. This time they are republican idiots. Next time it could be democratic idiots. and the next time and the next time.

You lost. Accept it and go about getting your side elected so you can change it.
And start doing your job in the mean time. There have been House and Senate budgets since spring that have not gone to a committee to get hashed out. If you did your job negotiating the best you can get, WE WOULD NOT NEED A CONTINUING RESOLUTION.

OH!!! RABBLE RABBLE!!!:fight:

[Destroyer]

In our country, we pass a bill in the house and senate, it gets signed by the president and it becomes law. If the law violates the constitution, the supreme court can strike it down. If it holds up, then it is the law. Period.:rule:

If you don't like it then you need to pass a new bill that says "never mind" in the house and senate and have it signed by the president. PERIOD.:rule:

This applies to all laws whether they were passed and/or signed by a Democrat or Republican. We can't let a handful of idiots change the way we do things. This time they are republican idiots. Next time it could be democratic idiots. and the next time and the next time.

You lost. Accept it and go about getting your side elected so you can change it.
And start doing your job in the mean time. There have been House and Senate budgets since spring that have not gone to a committee to get hashed out. If you did your job negotiating the best you can get, WE WOULD NOT NEED A CONTINUING RESOLUTION.

OH!!! RABBLE RABBLE!!!:fight:

HUH?? Translate into coherent English please.

[Destroyer]

In our country, we pass a bill in the house and senate, it gets signed by the president and it becomes law. If the law violates the constitution, the supreme court can strike it down. If it holds up, then it is the law. Period.:rule:

Agreed! (Unless of course one of the Supreme Court guys gets paid off to make a change in the bill and call it something that even the WRITERS OF THE BILL said it wasn't!!... You know, like calling something a tax when it was strictly stated by the writers that it wasn't ....stuff like that).

If you don't like it then you need to pass a new bill that says "never mind" in the house and senate and have it signed by the president. PERIOD.:rule:

Or defund it to protect the citizens of this country from something so egregious that it simply defies description. Since Congress has, by law and definition, control of the Country's purse, what we are seeing is simply an exercise of those laws. :rule:

This applies to all laws whether they were passed and/or signed by a Democrat or Republican. We can't let a handful of idiots change the way we do things. This time they are republican idiots. Next time it could be democratic idiots. and the next time and the next time.

Well, Republicans didn't pass Obamacare, it was forced on them just like it was forced on the rest of the Country. They are simply trying to stop it. So this time it's Democrat idiots, but in principle I agree with you.

You lost. Accept it and go about getting your side elected so you can change it.

God, do you have any idea how tired I am of hearing that silly statement?
Like it's the battle cry of the Democrats. "You lost.. accept it"
NO MY FRIEND, I didn't lose. THE COUNTRY LOST WHEN A BUNCH OF GREEDY, MISINFORMED AND UNINFORMED PEOPLE, that thought they were going to get something for nothing, elected this SOCIALIST to the White House. One whose AVOWED objective is to "FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGE" America. WE ALL LOST!!!!

And start doing your job in the mean time. There have been House and Senate budgets since spring that have not gone to a committee to get hashed out. If you did your job negotiating the best you can get, WE WOULD NOT NEED A CONTINUING RESOLUTION.

My job? I'm DOING my job. I'm pointing out the truth to uninformed and misinformed people. If they don't want to listen, there's not much I can do about that except to keep trying.
Oh, and for the record, the DEMOCRAT controlled Senate, that is REQUIRED by law to pass a budget every year, (and because of their majority has the power to override any opposition from the Republicans), has not passed a budget since Obama came into office 5 YEARS ago. In fact, in 2012 the Democratically controlled Senate, by a vote of 99 - 0, voted down Obama's proposed budget. At the same time, the Senate also voted on four Republican budget proposal/blueprints, which were all defeated. There's the reason for your continuing resolution. So why don't you do YOUR job and write them and DEMAND that they do their job???!!!

OH!!! RABBLE RABBLE!!!:fight:
Still not sure what you mean by that..:head: ...but ...oh well...


.

[RidgeRunner]

Skunk Boat Not the Republicans fault IMO. Thomas Sowell has it right: http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2013/10/04/who-shut-down-the-government-n1716292/page/full

Hard to argue with the facts. Appropriations is full-on the House of Representatives responsibility. They passed a bill to keep goverment running in case nobody noticed, apparently Harry didn't. For someone with a degree in History/Constitution you would think Obama would have forseen this little hiccup. Truth is even though it once garnered a lot of support, as time goes on people have shifted their support from national healthcare to other things like jobs and the economy. Talk about a prolonged recession, 7 years. At what point do the Dems quit blaming GWB as their excuse for a crap economy?

Destroyer, I appreciate the comments from Glen Beck, not my favorite talking head. The president has failed to introduce a budget, (his responsibility as sitting president), five years running no less? Doesn't that small fact concern anyone? Wouldn't he have already been fired if he worked in the private sector?
I had already heard from another source what pricks National Park Service was being about the closed down farm in VA. Hurt the working man is the goal and mantra of the Democrats. They want us to feel it.
I can assure you that they don't have enough government to prevent me from going fishing. What was Glenn Beck talking about? Closing fishing in the keys? Good luck there. Rum soaked Conch Republic will tell you where and how often to go fornicate yourself. If I recall correctly it wouldn't be the first time either.
For any liberal/progressive/socialist/commie out there that claim that the rednecks are clinging to our guns a little too tight. I say not too tight, just right. This is exactly WHY the Second Amendment is so damn important. I will not be dictated to, I am sure others feel the same. Too many good men and women died for the freedom that our govt. is attempting to take away with the stroke of a pen.
I personally feel Obamacare will fail without any help from the Republicans. I have tested the numbers and it just does not add up. Poor working class man doesn't have an extra 10% to throw at health care. It just isn't affordable. Bronze coverage is 60/40? So you just bankrupted the working poor with the health care mandate? Giant premiums, giant out of pocket co-pays if you use the system and god forbid you have anything major necessary because the prices are still going up and you are not going to have access when and where you need it because there will still be tens of millions of illegals milking the system without the first nickel of contributions. Tens of millions more on welfare that don't contribute a nickel to the system either. Where are the additional doctors? Has noone seen this through? They need to start acting a little nicer to me as I am still a contributor. Instead they want to make me suffer. Who wants to make me suffer? Obama and the Dems.
I know there are some people suffering due to lack of insurability, I am not without a heart. something needs to be done. The mandate rubs me wrong and aside from "a pre-existing condition" just doesn't fix much of anything..

[bradford]

Skimmed through a few of these, can't attest to authenticity. If nothing else it's probably worse any way.



FEDS TRY TO CLOSE THE OCEAN BECAUSE OF SHUTDOWN

http://12160.info/page/feds-try-to-c...se-of-shutdown (http://12160.info/page/feds-try-to-close-the-ocean-because-of-shutdown)

Police prevent drivers from pulling over and viewing Mt. Rushmore

http://12160.info/page/unbelievable-police-prevent-drivers-from-pulling-over-and-viewing (http://12160.info/page/unbelievable-police-prevent-drivers-from-pulling-over-and-viewing)


Obama's Park Service Goons Force Private Property Owners From Lake Homes

http://12160.info/page/first-ocean-now-lakes-obama-s-park-service-goons-force-private-pr

(http://12160.info/page/first-ocean-now-lakes-obama-s-park-service-goons-force-private-pr)
Park Ranger admits being told to make life as difficult for people as possible
http://ning.it/1f8W1dq


Feds Won’t Investigate Worker’s Death In An Ongoing Subway Project Due To “Shutdown” (http://rinf.com/alt-news/breaking-news/feds-wont-investigate-workers-death-in-an-ongoing-subway-project-due-to-shutdown/76821/)


National Park rangers ordered to keep visitors out of privately run businesses (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/6/national-park-rangers-ordered-to-keep-visitors-out/)

Outrage: Government Forces Homeowners To Leave Private Residences Amid Shutdown (http://rinf.com/alt-news/breaking-news/outrage-government-forces-homeowners-to-leave-private-residences-amid-shutdown/76768/)

Obama Shuts Down Amber Alert Website While Michelle Obama’s Let’s Move Website Stays Open (http://rinf.com/alt-news/breaking-news/obama-shuts-down-amber-alert-website-while-michelle-obamas-lets-move-website-stays-open/76699/)

US Shutdown a Smokescreen for Assault on Social Security, Medicare (http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/news/us-shutdown-smokescreen-assault-social-security-medicare)


Shutdown forces owners to leave Lake Mead homes (http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/government/shutdown-forces-owners-leave-lake-mead-homes)


Feds Spare No Expense to Close Popular Tourist Sites (http://12160.info/page/shutdown-drama-puts-national-park-service-in-crossfire)


Forget the government shutdown – it’s about shutting YOU down –


http://www.thedailysheeple.com/forge...ou-down_102013 (http://www.thedailysheeple.com/forget-the-government-shutdown-its-about-shutting-you-down_102013)

FDA and EPA are Victims of the Government Shutdown – Is This Supposed to be a Bad Thing? (http://www.thedailysheeple.com/fda-and-epa-are-victims-of-the-government-shutdown-is-this-supposed-to-be-a-bad-thing_102013)


“Never Forget This Moment. This is how Barack Obama Acts, When Challenged or Resisted.” (http://www.thedailysheeple.com/never-forget-this-moment-this-is-how-barack-obama-acts-when-challenged-or-resisted_102013)

[Destroyer]

Thank you RidgeRunner and Bradford :clap:

[Destroyer]

What RidgeRunner was referring to with his link to Thomas Sowell is herewith reprinted. I felt it was so necessary for people to actually see and read this that I didn't want to leave it to chance that the site would take it down or that it would suddenly mysteriously disappear. This is the text that Ridge referenced, and is so overwhelming.

Even when it comes to something as basic, and apparently as simple and straightforward, as the question of who shut down the federal government, there are diametrically opposite answers, depending on whether you talk to Democrats or to Republicans.

There is really nothing complicated about the facts. The Republican-controlled House of Representatives voted all the money required to keep all government activities going -- except for ObamaCare.

This is not a matter of opinion. You can check the Congressional Record.

As for the House of Representatives' right to grant or withhold money, that is not a matter of opinion either. You can check the Constitution of the United States. All spending bills must originate in the House of Representatives, which means that Congressmen there have a right to decide whether or not they want to spend money on a particular government activity.

Whether ObamaCare is good, bad or indifferent is a matter of opinion. But it is a matter of fact that members of the House of Representatives have a right to make spending decisions based on their opinion.

ObamaCare is indeed "the law of the land," as its supporters keep saying, and the Supreme Court has upheld its Constitutionality.

But the whole point of having a division of powers within the federal government is that each branch can decide independently what it wants to do or not do, regardless of what the other branches do, when exercising the powers specifically granted to that branch by the Constitution.

The hundreds of thousands of government workers who have been laid off are not idle because the House of Representatives did not vote enough money to pay their salaries or the other expenses of their agencies -- unless they are in an agency that would administer ObamaCare.

Since we cannot read minds, we cannot say who -- if anybody -- "wants to shut down the government." But we do know who had the option to keep the government running and chose not to. The money voted by the House of Representatives covered everything that the government does, except for ObamaCare.

The Senate chose not to vote to authorize that money to be spent, because it did not include money for ObamaCare. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid says that he wants a "clean" bill from the House of Representatives, and some in the media keep repeating the word "clean" like a mantra. But what is unclean about not giving Harry Reid everything he wants?

If Senator Reid and President Obama refuse to accept the money required to run the government, because it leaves out the money they want to run ObamaCare, that is their right. But that is also their responsibility.

You cannot blame other people for not giving you everything you want. And it is a fraud to blame them when you refuse to use the money they did vote, even when it is ample to pay for everything else in the government.

When Barack Obama keeps claiming that it is some new outrage for those who control the money to try to change government policy by granting or withholding money, that is simply a bald-faced lie. You can check the history of other examples of "legislation by appropriation" as it used to be called.

Whether legislation by appropriation is a good idea or a bad idea is a matter of opinion. But whether it is both legal and not unprecedented is a matter of fact.

Perhaps the biggest of the big lies is that the government will not be able to pay what it owes on the national debt, creating a danger of default. Tax money keeps coming into the Treasury during the shutdown, and it vastly exceeds the interest that has to be paid on the national debt.

Even if the debt ceiling is not lifted, that only means that government is not allowed to run up new debt. But that does not mean that it is unable to pay the interest on existing debt.

None of this is rocket science. But unless the Republicans get their side of the story out -- and articulation has never been their strong suit -- the lies will win. More important, the whole country will lose.

[RidgeRunner]

Thanks Destroyer.
And to add to the sentiment that the closure of government is nothing NEW:
A record set by the Democrats back in 1981- by House Speaker Tip O'neil who shut down the government 8 times in 8 years over various topics. MX missile funding, abortion funding by Medicaid, etc.

All shutdowns listed here: http://www.neontommy.com/news/2013/09/list-all-government-shutdowns What it accomplished Then was to get President Reagan to conceed a little of the ground he gained to his teammate on the other side. He managed to reach across the isle and in doing so came to some resolution.
Today there seems to be a lack of cooperation like we have never seen. The President and Senate leader Reid are saying it is "Our Way or the Highway". If we could only send them down that "highway", but I digress. Remember, the Republicans funded the Government Operations in full, less Obamacare..
A look back and explaination from a guy who lived it then and a comparison to what is happening today.
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-10-02/opinions/42616180_1_brief-shutdown-five-day-shutdown-continuing-resolution