Saw these in the Summit store online

[aussie]

http://www.northernautoparts.com/images/Uploaded/Howards_Cams/Howards_Cams_Mechanical_Flat_Tappet_Lifters/Direct_Lube_Solid_Lifter.jpg

[aussie]

Has anyone used these or know someone who has -they seem a good idea but how does it affect oil pressure and does it help cam lobe wear ?

[spareparts]

Rhodes lifters?

[UBHSTRY]

What are those? Rhoades variable duration lifters? If so, they work. I have used them more than once, the only thing I didnt like about them, is they used to bleed way down, and give me a valve tap on occasion. Dont know if that has been solved or not with them, but wouldnt be surprised if that has been rectified.

[UBHSTRY]

Rhodes lifters?


:haha:

I slow!

[spareparts]

I've used them, didn't care for them. If I needed a cam to make more vacuum for the specs, I'd go solid instead of the Rhodes

[THEFERMANATOR]

Rhodes lifters?

The picture is of a set of HOWARDS direct lube solid lifters. Notice the small hole in the lifter face, it is designed to run oil pressure at the contact face between the lifter and camshaft for better oiling. With todays modern oils with low zinc and phosfourous levels, it can't hurt to have extra oil available to prevent lobe wear. Personally I would just use a conventional lifter with a oil with high zinc and phosfourous levels.

[spareparts]

rotella!

[THEFERMANATOR]

rotella!

Since 2011 when diesels started using DEF they reduced the ZINC and phosfourous levels in Rotells as well. It is alot higher than gas oil is, but still nothing like ROTELLA was in 06. Pre emissions Rotella was around 1300 PPM of ZINC, now it's around 800 The minumum for a flat tappet cam during break in is 1100 or so, and around 900 for regular oil changes(unless you have a modern hardened flat tappet cam, and then they say a properly broke in cam will live an OK life at 750). To put it in perspective, I believe modern S rated oils are around 300-450 PPM of ZINC. VALVOLINE XR racing oils are still around 1250-1300 as well as a few other performance oils.

DISCLAIMER: My numbers may be off as it has been awhile since I researched oil formulation changes. And this is for US based products, international markets can still have higher levels of ZINC and PHOSFOUROUS since they don't have our messed up emission regs and systems.

[spareparts]

I was told to use the api cj-5 rotella it is suposed to be the high zinc. I Dont know for sure, I'll call their customer service next week, they have an excellent tech line

[aussie]

im asking about solid lifters with the oil hole in the bottom as I did read in the big banger forum that the cams do wear when you regrind them mainly because of not enough zinc in the oil if you want to change the subject to oils at least let me start a thread lol

[THEFERMANATOR]

All I have read is debate over the hole in the lifter facing helping or hurting. COMP CAMS makes a lifter design that gets more oil to the lifter without drilling the hole in the lifter face. it has a groove cut in the side to channel oil down from the galley to the lifter. This way you keep a solid face, but the channel will dump oil down.

[smokeonthewater]

just get roller lifters... done and done

[aussie]

just get roller lifters... done and done
I would use rollers if you can find me a cam to suit

[smokeonthewater]

I think pretty much any cam will work w rollers..... just can't use a roller specific cam w non roller lifters...

Aren't you having a cam reground... could you not specify that it be a roller cam?

[THEFERMANATOR]

I think pretty much any cam will work w rollers..... just can't use a roller specific cam w non roller lifters...

Aren't you having a cam reground... could you not specify that it be a roller cam?

Don't work that way. Roller cams have a COMPLETELY different grind profile to them than a flat tappet cam has. The contours of a flat tappet cam with roller lifters wouldn't last long, not to mention roller cams are made of billet steel whereas flat tappets are cast. I'm sure Aussie could get a custom grind done, but it would cost ALOT of money to do so. I know COMP has blanks that can be custom ground to most anything, but the cost would be up close to a grand US probably for a one off like a 3.7L.

[smokeonthewater]

OOPS! I completely forgot about WHY they don't work that way!

the flat tappet cam lobes are ground at an angle so they rotate the lifters.... Yeah ur right of course can't use rollers or they'd be riding on just the edge of the wheel.... sorry for any confusion.

[spareparts]

Hey Aussie, has any one laid that 3.7 cam beside a 460 cam? Wonder if you could run a 460 cam on only use half the lobes? You'd have to bore the end of the cam to accept the shaft for the water pump though.

[aussie]

Hey Aussie, has any one laid that 3.7 cam beside a 460 cam? Wonder if you could run a 460 cam on only use half the lobes? You'd have to bore the end of the cam to accept the shaft for the water pump though. i look at that the distrubtor gear would be a problem so i think that's out

[aussie]

I guess a lot of you guys are thinking why am i wasting my time and money on a small 3.7 when i can drop a V8 in my V and have all the power i want here are a few reasons why i haven't gone that way

( 1 ) prices for a S/H V8 boat engine are too expensive here

( 2 ) don't wont the extra weight

Reasons why i stuck with the 3.7

( 1 ) the light weight of the engine and even more with the alloy head

( 2 ) engine parts being cheap because same as a 460

( 3 ) fuel efficient

( 4 ) Most of all being a unique engine having a smaller engine making
good power is more rewarding than dropping a V8 in it when i do go
out for a fish and my boat is more fuel efficient than my mates boats
its a fishing boat and will be well balanced with the 3.7

:money:

[smokeonthewater]

Not me... I like the 4 cyl plan

[spareparts]

Aussie, you're doing what i always wanted to do with my old room mates Stingray 176(had the 3.7L 165 hp), more power to you for doing it, but just don't over complicate it

[THEFERMANATOR]

Aussie, you're doing what i always wanted to do with my old room mates Stingray 176(had the 3.7L 165 hp), more power to you for doing it, but just don't over complicate it

What he said. Nothing against the 3.7L, and I think MERCRUISER screwed up by ditching it for the 4.3L V6. But I agree that your over complicating it many ways. Build the bottem end up, put a good head on it, call a good cam company and have them see if they can do a regrind to peak the engine for your application, and call it a day. Electric water pumps and other extravagant things on a boat are just head aches waiting to happen. Build the engine up, but keep it simple.

[smokeonthewater]

what he said. Nothing against the 3.7l, and i think mercruiser screwed up by ditching it for the 4.3l v6. But i agree that your over complicating it many ways. Build the bottem end up, put a good head on it, call a good cam company and have them see if they can do a regrind to peak the engine for your application, and call it a day. Electric water pumps and other extravagant things on a boat are just head aches waiting to happen. Build the engine up, but keep it simple.

this!!!!! ^

[smokeonthewater]

interesting article
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/91130/inside_flat_tappet_camshaft_andlifter_technology.a spx

"Improved lifter designs can also reduce the risk of lobe wear and cam failure. Some companies now make lifters that have a small pin hole in the bottom of the lifter to feed oil directly to the lobe. The hole may be centered over the lobe or offset slightly to one side. Another trick that can improve cam lubrication is to cut a small slot in each lifter bore so oil can drip down directly onto the cam lobes.

Cam Treatments
Another way to reduce cam lobe wear is to have the camshaft nitrided. Nitriding is a process where the camshaft is baked inside a sealed chamber at high temperature while being exposed to a pure nitrogen atmosphere. As the nitrogen diffuses into the surface of the iron, it forms a hard layer a few thousandths of an inch deep that improves wear resistance. It***8217;s not a coating and does not change the dimensions of the camshaft.

Some cam manufacturers offer nitriding as an option. The treatment costs about $100, and increases the surface hardness of the cam to about Rockwell 55 to 60. Some say the bottoms of the lifters should also be nitrided, but others say if the cam lobes and lifters are the same hardness it may increase the risk of galling during break-in.

Some cam suppliers use a process called ***8220;Parkerizing***8221; that applies an acidic lubricant to the outer surface of the cam to protect against galling during break-in. It***8217;s a temporary treatment and does not change the hardness of the cam.

Another way to reduce cam wear issues is to use an iron alloy that contains more nickel, or to go with a billet steel cam (both of which are more expensive than cast iron). Chase Knight of Crane Cams said his company is now using an upgraded camshaft material that is about three points harder than a standard cast iron alloy. Crane also offers a micropolished surface finish that reduces friction and improves the break-in process."

[aussie]

that's fine I just wanted to explain myself why im doing what I am . I haven't cut the camshaft yettttttttttt - I gave Crow cams the specs of the engine and told them what im doing and asked for a cam grind in a solid the specs they gave me were a lot smaller than the hydraulic that's in it. Im not going to use that grind as im sure it will make less power than the merc one as they would of done a lot of testing to get the cam rite .What I plan to do is to get the cam read and find a grind something close or a touch bigger in a solid .I have a heap of grinds that I got done on paper just need to choose one. I have in the past had the face of lifters reground with more radius to help break in of the cam I have seen lobes wearing of days after they were installed. I do want to go solid mainly because I had to buy push rods and rollers for the head and I wont be going fishing everyday . so if I need to adjust them once a year it wont be a problem

[aussie]

I guess a lot of you guys are thinking why am i wasting my time and money on a small 3.7 when i can drop a V8 in my V and have all the power i want here are a few reasons why i haven't gone that way

( 1 ) prices for a S/H V8 boat engine are too expensive here

( 2 ) don't wont the extra weight

Reasons why i stuck with the 3.7

( 1 ) the light weight of the engine and even more with the alloy head

( 2 ) engine parts being cheap because same as a 460

( 3 ) fuel efficient

( 4 ) Most of all being a unique engine having a smaller engine making
good power is more rewarding than dropping a V8 in it when i do go
out for a fish and my boat is more fuel efficient than my mates boats
its a fishing boat and will be well balanced with the 3.7

:money: I forgot another reason im keeping the 3.7 a few members told me that they make good power for what they are and I only took the boat for one short run and had the push rod problem so I couldn't tell how good it was