Hull extension

[jasoncooperpcola]

Has a hull extension been done on a V20 before? How would adding three feet affect the handling? Opinions?

[smokeonthewater]

Jason, this isn't on of our V's BUT this is an EPIC thread.... GOBS AND GOBS of knowledge here..... Get a COMFY chair and a few sodas and settle in for a LOOOOONG night or several nights.
http://forums.iboats.com/boat-restoration-building-hull-repair/hull-extension-progress-pics-234392.html

[jasoncooperpcola]

I just read the first page and learned a ton! I would only add two feet if I did do it. 22 is a lucky number for me, my bday is on the 22nd of July. Thanks for the link Smoke, I am going to spend some time and read it. Just based on rough guessing a two foot hull extension would add around 500lbs of flotation. This is really alot to think on. Lots of modification but I cannot think of a better time or better hull to modify.

[spareparts]

a friend of mine that used to make glass work boats(Diamond Boats) would stretch hulls all the time, he had the mold for the 27 Aquasport and would make a 30 out of it with no problem, he had the mold so it was easier for him, but on ones that he didn't have the mold, he would use the back 4 feet of the hull as the plug, make a mold off of it, use the mold to make the extension and section it in.

I saw Dale Earnhardt Sr.'s boat at Palmer Johnson having the 30 feet added to it, he had to make his bigger than Rusty Wallace's

[reelapeelin]

I just read the first page and learned a ton! I would only add two feet if I did do it. 22 is a lucky number for me, my bday is on the 22nd of July. Thanks for the link Smoke, I am going to spend some time and read it. Just based on rough guessing a two foot hull extension would add around 500lbs of flotation. This is really alot to think on. Lots of modification but I cannot think of a better time or better hull to modify.

Wow...that's something I've always wanted to do w/a V20...and while underway, beef it up enough to handle 250 HP....I hope you'll do this and post pics along the way and when finished...wet tests and all...my vote?...GO FOR IT...if I lived closer, I'd come help free!

Just a thought...these boats, to me have forever seemed butt-heavy...occurred to me, you might wanna leave the fuel tank in the front as you extent aft to help offset some of the weight on the stern...especially if yer gonna go up in HP...

[jasoncooperpcola]

Thanks for the encouragement Smoke, Spare, and Reel. It seems building the mold and getting it lined up is the hardest part. If I do the hull extension I will still do the outrigger bracket which takes some stress of the extension. Good thinking on the fuel tank, Reel. Do yall think additional stringers may be needed? Such a modification will have to be done using epoxy for the most strength. I will need help though. Another question, is regarding title. Will I have a 2013 Wellcraft V22?

[smokeonthewater]

only if you decide to title it as home built... then it would be a 2013 or 2014 JCPF v22

[spareparts]

Stringer would have to be extended to tie in with the transom, you can sister them in place to the existing stringers. Epoxy is good, but not neccesary

[jasoncooperpcola]

Stringer would have to be extended to tie in with the transom, you can sister them in place to the existing stringers. Epoxy is good, but not neccesary

She is getting new stringers so that is covered. I plan to use epoxy on the extension and bracket just for my own piece of mind. Still undecided on the extension. At this point I do not care how long it takes I just want to do it right. The hull bottom is 3/8 - 1/2" thick right at where the cuddy starts. Is it the same all the way?

[spareparts]

you know, the easiest way would be to find a stripped out derelict v20 hull and graft the two together, look around, you could probably fine one. Check with Lanier Marine Salvage. If you find an I/O boat to cut the back off, it would be an easy bracket job from there

[jasoncooperpcola]

Spare I will keep a look out. But will this be as strong as if I laid new glass for the two foot filler? Its a long shot but I will check the 18 Fisherman I have at the house. I think it does not have the deadrise ? of a V20 though.

[jasoncooperpcola]

If I do decide to register it home built, do I need to go thru Coast Guard? And who determines max HP? I need a 300 HP rating at least. Also what about the HIN? Does it need to disappear?

[smokeonthewater]

You probably don't wanna do home built BUT if you do it will be through your state title office... you will turn in receipts and title/hin number of parts boats used and you will be issued a new number and title.... hp rating is determined by whichever is more restrictive a formula (length beam freeboard deadrise hull style etc) from the coast guard site and by the builder (you)

[ssiredfish]

Jason I have an old Hull Stretcher in the garage, very easy to use. I'll sell it for $500. Just MoneyPak me the money:sly:

[jasoncooperpcola]

Sorry I dont have the cash. I propose a trade. I will trade it for my 16 ton hydraulic nail unbender, a meglinating variable intensity multifunction power tool, 18 volt cordless hammer, and a 7 function multitool (has meat thermometer, gaydar, and a paternity test). :haha: and i might throw in a bucket of propwash too.

[smokeonthewater]

with some quick reading it looks like rated hull capacities are regulated by law on hulls UNDER 20' .... if that's true then u are clear to go ... ehem.... buck wild!

[ssiredfish]

Sorry I dont have the cash. I propose a trade. I will trade it for my 16 ton hydraulic nail unbender, a meglinating variable intensity multifunction power tool, 18 volt cordless hammer, and a 7 function multitool (has meat thermometer, gaydar, and a paternity test). :haha: and i might throw in a bucket of propwash too.

:beer: Fantastic!!!! Trade works well!!!! Hold on while I put my Bargainin Britches on........ I'll do it for the MVIMP tool(mine has a broke torque rotation awl....), hmm...I like the multitool though I own a Garden Center so I have the best Gaydar money can buy.......but the paternity test could come in handy.......the hammer would end up on Ebay. Tell you what....throw in a generator for the nailbender and we'll call it a deal!!!

[jasoncooperpcola]

Hmmm. You drive a hard bargain. I have a smoke and fume generator that will work but I use it to keep mosquitos away. How about a combination extension cord water hose? It would be perfect for your garden center!

[jasoncooperpcola]

with some quick reading it looks like rated hull capacities are regulated by law on hulls UNDER 20' .... if that's true then u are clear to go ... ehem.... buck wild!

Your right. And further more, the Coast Guard ratings are mostly for weight not speed. So what happens if I hang a 200 Honda on a V20? That thing weighs like a 300 2 stroke.
My goal is to have twin 2.5L Mercs. I will probably never see WOT but I will have the advantages of twins. I believe with an extension and a bracket I will get approved for 300Hp. The bracket is built into the boat so strength is not an issue.

[bgreene]

Didn't read if you already have trim tabs, but if you don't - adding them will make a big, make that a HUGE difference in the ride !!!

I speculate that without tabs, making the boat longer will still require tabs to get the best ride.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Didn't read if you already have trim tabs, but if you don't - adding them will make a big, make that a HUGE difference in the ride !!!

I speculate that without tabs, making the boat longer will still require tabs to get the best ride.

Yep I got a set of hydraulic tabs.

[RidgeRunner]

I think a donor hull might not be the best way to extend a hull. Hull stretcher 100% easier.

[jasoncooperpcola]

I think a donor hull might not be the best way to extend a hull. Hull stretcher 100% easier.

You are right Ridge. Which reminds me. My meglinating variable intesity multifunction power tool is the LIMITED EDITION! The bearings are lubricated by wax from Chuck Norris' ears. GUARANTEED FOREVER!

[smokeonthewater]

Now I KNOW you're full of chit.... Wax would be far too afraid to ever form in Chuck Norris' ears..... Ur sellin unicorns!!!!!

[Kracker Jack]

Build you a rack to put your boat in just like the thread. Then screw melamine or a F.R.P to the outside the boat then spray a pva release wax. Build the thickness up with heavy woven and csm alternating layers. Then return the cloth progressively about 3 or 4 foot into the hull on both sides of the patch. Let it kick then remove your out mold boards then progressively do the same layup as you did the inside. I would think that would git er done!!!! Add new stringers. Sounds simple...... But that's a lot of work!!

[bgreene]

Boat lengthener .....extender..... " how to "

1. Chain saw the boat across the marked line approx 2' ahead of the stern.
Just cut the darn boat in half there.

2. Cut 5' sections for the floor, and two sides.
A. Slather on a complete coating of 5200.
B. Fit these sections into place, with 1' overlap on each side.
C. Then drill holes every 6" and run stainless bolts with washers, and more 5200.
Run em' right through the hull, don't be bashful about it.

3. Tighten it all up, then coat the outer and inner hull with epoxy and gel coat.

4. Let dry, then wet sand and polish if that's important to you.

Then take your new V24 out on the ocean and have fun.

Total time for the job - figure 4 hours.

[Kracker Jack]

Boat lengthener .....extender..... " how to "

1. Chain saw the boat across the marked line approx 2' ahead of the stern.
Just cut the darn boat in half there.

2. Cut 5' sections for the floor, and two sides.
A. Slather on a complete coating of 5200.
B. Fit these sections into place, with 1' overlap on each side.
C. Then drill holes every 6" and run stainless bolts with washers, and more 5200.
Run em' right through the hull, don't be bashful about it.

3. Tighten it all up, then coat the outer and inner hull with epoxy and gel coat.

4. Let dry, then wet sand and polish if that's important to you.

Then take your new V24 out on the ocean and have fun.

Total time for the job - figure 4 hours.

You didn't mention any duct tape? Or a piece of foil off a chewing gum wrapper. Both mentioned must must have some structual integrity to build.

[bgreene]

You didn't mention any duct tape? Or a piece of foil off a chewing gum wrapper. Both mentioned must must have some structual integrity to build.

Come on man - this is the " get er done " instructional.

Cut, insert, glue, bolt, coat.

Two hour job if you're in a hurry. Four if you want to be fussy about it.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Yall are hilarious. Kracker no jokes its a ton of work. Your idea would have the most strength as it has layers built up on the hull on inside and outside. That would require flipping the V. Anybody know what just a V hull weighs? There are no scales nearby. Unless I go buy five bathroom scales and weigh the trailer with and without the boat.

[ssiredfish]

Yall are hilarious. Kracker no jokes its a ton of work. Your idea would have the most strength as it has layers built up on the hull on inside and outside. That would require flipping the V. Anybody know what just a V hull weighs? There are no scales nearby. Unless I go buy five bathroom scales and weigh the trailer with and without the boat.

I believe my 20CC is 1800lbs, hull only....

[macojoe]

Here is what wellcraft lists it at 1,920# also 60 gal gas, and 200 hp max power http://www.wellcraftv20.com/gallery/cat_1983/A4

This is what you guys are looking for I am sure!! here is what wellcraft did in 1983 :

http://www.wellcraftv20.com/gallery/cat_1983/A7

[jasoncooperpcola]

Thanks MJ and ssiredfish. Now I wonder if my current trailer can handle all the extra weight if I extend the hull. It needs new springs right now, maybe I can get higher rated springs and axles? I can only go another foot forward with the winch post and I still have to figure in possibly 800lbs hanging 30" of the transom. While we are on the weight subject how much do yall think the actual hull itself no cap weighs?

[smokeonthewater]

12-15

[macojoe]

Wellcraft says a center console is 1750, cuddy 1920, thats with no motor or gas or anything.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Ok so the cap is around 500 I think. So hull weight is 14-15. Smoke was right. I really do not have any help on this project, so I want to make sure I have the mechanical means to flip the hull if need be. I do not want to get in over my head on this. The hardest part i see is the actual mold itself.

[smokeonthewater]

No need to flip hull.... Mold is just a few pieces of board screwed to outside of the separated halves.... Touch up gell coat work if needed can be done from underneath with a paintbrush. Sand smooth after.

[twhrider2]

This is a mod. that appears to have crossed a lot of our minds. How do you guys think a V23-24 would compare to a seacraft/albemarle in same length as far as ride,dryness and overall performance? By the way are there any of the original V23's around?

[bgreene]

This is a mod. that appears to have crossed a lot of our minds. How do you guys think a V23-24 would compare to a seacraft/albemarle in same length as far as ride,dryness and overall performance? By the way are there any of the original V23's around?

I'm thinking it would ride similar to the 21' in that trim tabs would be important.
Longer boat means spanning the waves better, ultimately means less pitching but this is just a couple of feet longer. So, " the hull is the hull " and would still likely pound in a head sea without trim tabs.

[Kracker Jack]

This is a mod. that appears to have crossed a lot of our minds. How do you guys think a V23-24 would compare to a seacraft/albemarle in same length as far as ride,dryness and overall performance? By the way are there any of the original V23's around?

Our albemarle is 7200 pound dry weight with a 24 degree deadrise. I hate to say it but you can't compare the 2 hulls its like comparing apples to oranges. Even if the v was 24 foot long.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Come to think of it, the 250 Sportsman was a little heavy. But it would blast thru waves that would cause you to throttle back on a V. I wonder if that was weight or length? Or both? This concerns me because I plan on 75 mile trips to the oil rigs. Not to mention runs to the Edge, Steps, and the Nipple ranging from 25-45 miles offshore. I like to fish SKA Tourneys so speed in rough crap is important.

[ssiredfish]

Jason honestly my CC 21' rides just like a 23'. My main area that I fish the most is approx 25nm so I cover alot of ground in that boat and even more so to our snapper banks and then gulf stream being 55nm and 75nm respectively. I am very comfortable in 2-3' seas and I can usually make about 23knts into a head/quartering sea and still get around 2.7mpg.

Now with a following sea, this is my Wellcraft's time to shine. Ive never rode in another boat that has handled it so firmly. Ive ran through 4'ers doin 33-35knts and gettin over 3mpg. Of course it occasionally hits the brakes but the majority of the time she is just straight kickin azz.

Not sure if this is attributed to my CC having more weight in the back but she sits up in a following sea and the bow has no problem climbing up/pushing through the head sea.......and we just gettin ready to celebrate her 30th b-day in a couple of years and I just got my first stress fracture in the gelcoat......not bad for 28 years

Oh and thanks for the link MJ.....now I want a tower!!!!

[smokeonthewater]

Jason, something just occurred to me.... You have the opportunity to build the PERFECT V... the wellcraft V-230 CCC


center console cuddy

all of the room and fishability of a v-20 CC along with the storage and overnight ability of a v-20 cuddy.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Ssi, you have a bracket right? What setback and how heavy of an engine are you running? If I do the hull extension, I will cut some off the cuddy, and go with a pilothouse center console.

How much do yall think the twobfoot section of transom I cut off will weigh?

[ssiredfish]

Ssi, you have a bracket right? What setback and how heavy of an engine are you running? If I do the hull extension, I will cut some off the cuddy, and go with a pilothouse center console.

How much do yall think the twobfoot section of transom I cut off will weigh?

Yea its either an 18 or 20" Stainless Marine with Yamaha 4-stk 150. With the addition of the 150 she sits about an inch lower in the back but the old paint re-aligns with the water right at the back of the console. Between the 150 and the Tabs, it completley changed the way that boat rides......much, much better.....I can get you some good pics next time Im over there if that helps......

[jasoncooperpcola]

Yep, I like pics! Right now I want twin 2.5L Mercs on a bracket. I was thinking 30" setback. I can always shorten my bracket if its too far once I water test.

[ssiredfish]

Yea I'll get some when I go to the boat next.

As a diver I will even the hell outta you if the 30" works. My dive ladder is fine but some of my "heftier" buddies have a time with it....

[jasoncooperpcola]

Kracker posted a pic of a pilothouse centerconsole in my rebuild thread. Ridge also posted a pic of an enclosed console Everglades. Now, using wood as a core, could i duplicate that? My console will be built into the enclosure. They wont be two separate pieces.

[bgreene]

Come to think of it, the 250 Sportsman was a little heavy. But it would blast thru waves that would cause you to throttle back on a V. I wonder if that was weight or length? Or both? This concerns me because I plan on 75 mile trips to the oil rigs. Not to mention runs to the Edge, Steps, and the Nipple ranging from 25-45 miles offshore. I like to fish SKA Tourneys so speed in rough crap is important.

For that type fishing, you're better off getting a 23' Seacraft or such with a deep V designed for offshore use.

[jasoncooperpcola]

For that type fishing, you're better off getting a 23' Seacraft or such with a deep V designed for offshore use.

That has crossed my mind. But the V is more than capable of doing this. It has done it before, well not the rig trips.

[ssiredfish]

For a 75mi trip I pack an extra 15g's of gas and use it on the way out. If the day you picked was already borderline with the Welly I dont think an extra 2' of hull will all of sudden change your mind.......

[bgreene]

For a 75mi trip I pack an extra 15g's of gas and use it on the way out. If the day you picked was already borderline with the Welly I dont think an extra 2' of hull will all of sudden change your mind.......

Having run my V21 through tight 4'- 5' waves, I wouldn't want to do it for say 25 - 50 miles, plus larger wave swells too.

The boat ran fine, for what it is, and with the tabs, I wasn't pounding either.

I just don't look at the V's as a serious offshore rig - more of an inshore to about 25 miles out rig. It is what it is, roomy, nice riding, great looking.

That said - hey, go for it - take it way off deep and catch lots of big fish.

For serious offshore, I'd prefer to be running a 28' Henriques, Carolina, Bertram, Albi, etc type boat. Built for it.

[jasoncooperpcola]

I have had my share of rough trips in on the V. And I have never felt uncomfortable during any of those times. My main goal with the hull extension is more cockpit, and more flotation. I would run a V20 to the rigs if I had a motor I would trust and a kicker. Or twins. I do not want to go big because then it becomes a pain in the *** to run it. I have the feeling I will be going out alone alot so I need to keep things manageable. 22-24' with twins would be at the limit for me singlehanded. Not to mention I am hoping if I can gethe weight ratio right that twin 200 Mercs will be easy on fuel. I think it will cruise at 30-35 with the twins turning 2000? I am going off what I have seen here. Its gonna be a way different boat when done.

[ssiredfish]

I have had my share of rough trips in on the V. And I have never felt uncomfortable during any of those times. My main goal with the hull extension is more cockpit, and more flotation. I would run a V20 to the rigs if I had a motor I would trust and a kicker. Or twins. I do not want to go big because then it becomes a pain in the *** to run it. I have the feeling I will be going out alone alot so I need to keep things manageable. 22-24' with twins would be at the limit for me singlehanded. Not to mention I am hoping if I can gethe weight ratio right that twin 200 Mercs will be easy on fuel. I think it will cruise at 30-35 with the twins turning 2000? I am going off what I have seen here. Its gonna be a way different boat when done.

30-35mph @ 2000 sounds really optimistic but potentialy awesome as well.......

[jasoncooperpcola]

I am going off reports of 45mph with a 200 Merc. So twins is 90mph. SCARY! So I am figuring half throttle would be 45mph. It will probably be lower. But I expect no less than 70mph and I hope I never max it out lol.

[ssiredfish]

I am going off reports of 45mph with a 200 Merc. So twins is 90mph. SCARY! So I am figuring half throttle would be 45mph. It will probably be lower. But I expect no less than 70mph and I hope I never max it out lol.

Haha....Well best of luck sir and HANG ON!!!!

[bgreene]

I have had my share of rough trips in on the V. And I have never felt uncomfortable during any of those times. My main goal with the hull extension is more cockpit, and more flotation. I would run a V20 to the rigs if I had a motor I would trust and a kicker. Or twins. I do not want to go big because then it becomes a pain in the *** to run it. I have the feeling I will be going out alone alot so I need to keep things manageable. 22-24' with twins would be at the limit for me singlehanded. Not to mention I am hoping if I can gethe weight ratio right that twin 200 Mercs will be easy on fuel. I think it will cruise at 30-35 with the twins turning 2000? I am going off what I have seen here. Its gonna be a way different boat when done.

Yeh well, the 96' V21 supposedly holds 70 gallons so 200 miles is about the range.
Unless maybe with a 140 hp honda 4 stroke, then figure 250 + miles.

[jasoncooperpcola]

The fuel burn numbers will be interesting. I remember the 250 Sport with twin 150 Yamahas was not a gas pig at all.

[tartuffe]

If you add 5' to that hull off the rear that will be one hard-pounding ****ty ride. Look under the boat and midway there is a big wide flat spot where the fuel tank rests that stays in the water at cruise. Adding five feet shifts the weight further back making that flat spot your point of entry into waves in a chop. That will beat your fillings out

Also regarding power, the boat is not made for that type of power without major modifications. Go to a boat dealership and ask to see the hull core samples of these modern 25's with twins and you'll see about 3/4" to 1-1/4" thick fiberglass layups. Our boats have nowhere near that, ours are more like 3/8".

Not trying to be a downer but because it was done before doesn't make it a good idea.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Thats funny Tartuffe, I was looking at the hull today thinking its going to look odd having so much "pad" and not enough bow. You got a very good point. I just do not know if 2' extension is worth all the work. My main goal is to make room for an enclosed center console with the shortened cuddy. But then again back to alot of pad with little bow. I understand what your saying and until I looked at it today it did not occur to be a problem. Twins would be nice, but I can almost buy a new kicker 25hp for the cost of another 2.5L Merc.

[macojoe]

when i converted my i/o to outboard i would say the transom was 1/2 glass, in 1975, but i am sure its not heavy enough for twins that size. i wasn't even sure it was for a 175 and added enforcement inside when i added the bracket.

this is 1/2 x 3" steel


http://www.wellcraftv20.com/gallery/albums/album91/Picture_016.jpg

[reelapeelin]

Thats funny Tartuffe, I was looking at the hull today thinking its going to look odd having so much "pad" and not enough bow. You got a very good point. I just do not know if 2' extension is worth all the work. My main goal is to make room for an enclosed center console with the shortened cuddy. But then again back to alot of pad with little bow. I understand what your saying and until I looked at it today it did not occur to be a problem. Twins would be nice, but I can almost buy a new kicker 25hp for the cost of another 2.5L Merc.

I keep thinking you are really on to something w/a hull extension, but more in the 3'-4' range...then as far as power, once the extension is done, what's the smallest power that would plane that hull?...90?...100?...115?...whatever will plane it, double that w/twins for best efficiency re weight and fuel...and as far as hull entry goes a pair of trim tabs can determine that, instead of relying on dealing w/whatever the boat does naturally...
There's one thing I've come to realize about powering a predominantly saltwater boat...you RARELY use big HP due to the seas you run in...so why not cut it back to what you'll more realistically use?...JMHO...

[jasoncooperpcola]

If I want to stay with Mercury for power that limits my options for power. I think a 100 is the max in a four cylinder.

Right now I am planning to keep the V20 as she is now. Thats a ton of work. If I get serious about the SKA tourneys I will look for an old Seacraft that needs work, or go all out and buy an older Fountain.

[reelapeelin]

If I want to stay with Mercury for power that limits my options for power. I think a 100 is the max in a four cylinder.

Right now I am planning to keep the V20 as she is now. Thats a ton of work. If I get serious about the SKA tourneys I will look for an old Seacraft that needs work, or go all out and buy an older Fountain.

The line about a lotta work is a big one...still, I'd like to see it done sometime...would really like to work w/somebody KNOWS glassin'...but don't look like that's to be...

A V24 w/a 250 ETEC pusher...I'd hit it...:party:

[bgreene]

If I want to stay with Mercury for power that limits my options for power. I think a 100 is the max in a four cylinder.

Right now I am planning to keep the V20 as she is now. Thats a ton of work. If I get serious about the SKA tourneys I will look for an old Seacraft that needs work, or go all out and buy an older Fountain.

Good ideas, plus you can carry two 10 gallon fuel reserve tanks for long runs.