Cap is off

[jasoncooperpcola]

Started at 6 this morning and at about 9:30 I had the cap off. I had to jack the boat up and put a 2x4 under the cap edge on the bow then lower the trailer and bounce on the tongue to get it broke loose. To discover foam we sprayed in the bow. Glued it up pretty tight. Next came the transom, after winching, raising and lowering the bow, and opening a pretty good sized stress crack in each corner of the cap I figured the splashwell was glued to the transom. Tore the fiberglass off the back edge of the splashwell, and it was glassed in. I think I hit it with a hammer and flat bar about five times before it gave way.

Got the hull out from under the cap. Now some bad news. Looks like I am replacing every stringer and floor (cross stringers) in the boat, up to the cuddy liner. Everything is rotted out and where one stringer meats another stringer its broke. After seeing this on TWO Wellcrafts now, I am thinking about running twin stringers glassed together in place of one stringer.

I did not know the stringer cavities on the outside edges were completely filled with foam. There should be enough foam in it, to keep it afloat if something bad happens. Right now I am removing the foam around the gas tank with a chainsaw to have a look at the tank. Pics a little later. :beer:

[RidgeRunner]

Get er done.. Those 4x6 do the job? Pictures, please.. I gotta see.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Yes, the 4x6 did not even bend the slightest.

Bow broke loose

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj199/jasoncooperpcola/V20rebuild001.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj199/jasoncooperpcola/V20rebuild002.jpg

Cap off and winched all the way to the 4x6s.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj199/jasoncooperpcola/V20rebuild003.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj199/jasoncooperpcola/V20rebuild004.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj199/jasoncooperpcola/V20rebuild005.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj199/jasoncooperpcola/V20rebuild006.jpg

[jasoncooperpcola]

And now the bad.

Transom rot.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj199/jasoncooperpcola/V20rebuild007.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj199/jasoncooperpcola/V20rebuild008.jpg

Broken stringers

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj199/jasoncooperpcola/V20rebuild012.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj199/jasoncooperpcola/V20rebuild013.jpg

[jasoncooperpcola]

Gas tank removal FUN!! And I still have not got it broke loose even with all the foam removed from around the sides of the tank.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj199/jasoncooperpcola/V20rebuild011.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj199/jasoncooperpcola/V20rebuild014.jpg

Why the cut down stringers???

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj199/jasoncooperpcola/V20rebuild015.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj199/jasoncooperpcola/V20rebuild007.jpg

Hull as it sits now

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj199/jasoncooperpcola/V20rebuild016.jpg

Cap, resting on a 4x6 up front and a 4x4 on the rear

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj199/jasoncooperpcola/V20rebuild018.jpg

Here you can see where I tore a section of the splashwell lip out to break the cap loose from the transom.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj199/jasoncooperpcola/V20rebuild017.jpg

[Kracker Jack]

Holy smokes Batman!!!!! That's a lot of work dude.

[jasoncooperpcola]

still cant bidge the tank. About to hook up to a tree and pull.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Holy smokes Batman!!!!! That's a lot of work dude.

Yeah. I was hoping the stringers would be ok. Still fighting the fuel tank. Already broke one strap. Lifted the boat about a half inch off the trailer and wanted to let it sit for a while. Ten seconds later i heard ripping saw the boat drop and a strap end fly up. This is getting fun now. I have already tore one bulk head out and sawed under the tank.

[smokeonthewater]

two words..... cable saw


BTW good work and don't sweat the "broken stringers" That's just the glass skin.... your skin would tear too if your bones rotted away.... rebuild it like it was and it'll be PLENTY strong for as long as the wood lasts.

[jasoncooperpcola]

two words..... cable saw


BTW good work and don't sweat the "broken stringers" That's just the glass skin.... your skin would tear too if your bones rotted away.... rebuild it like it was and it'll be PLENTY strong for as long as the wood lasts.

You think 3/4" stringers will be ok with a bracket and possibly a 225/250hp outboard or twins? Right now I have a 2.5L Merc 200 to go on it, but I am considering some modifications to it that will put it at least at 225. I was thinking twin 100/125s later on.

On the joint where I tore the bulkhead out, the wood was like dirt on both sides. I think if I am going to go thru the trouble of rebuilding it, I would rather do it right and keep all the water out of the wood.

Finally got the fuel tank out! I hooked a bigger strap around the tank lifted the boat again but this time I drove wedges under the tank. Scary at first because I did not know if I was hearing ripping glass or ripping foam. I was really surprised at how the foam itself tore in places rather than releasing from the tank. Have I mentioned I hate the smell of putrid rotted salt water?

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj199/jasoncooperpcola/V20rebuild019.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj199/jasoncooperpcola/V20rebuild020.jpg

[Cam]

GREAT pics of your work.. I really appreciate the fact that I now know what my boat looks like under the skin. Thanks a million....:clap:

[draglink]

Damn man thats HUGE progress right there! Love the picture updates!

[smokeonthewater]

by all means seal it up for sure.... my monte carlo has 3/4" stringers and it has twin 260 I/O's

My personal opinion is that the hp doesn't have a great deal to do with the stringer size.... I've seen so many boats in which the stringers were hardly even connected to the transom....

I'm not a boat builder but I'd say that as long as your transom is solid and tied in to the stringers, cap, and hull, then the weight of the engine (balance of boat) will become a problem before you have to worry about structural failure.

[Kracker Jack]

I'm looking at your pictures and I'm having flashbacks!!!!!! It's making my stomach nasueas!!! Lol!!! Man I remember when mine looked like that. It was shear determination to prep that hull for stringers. I look back at it now and smile, knowing what I acommplished. I wish you were closer so I could come help you. Just remember its all worth it!!!

Like smoke said tabbing your transom to sides of hull and tabbing your stringers is key. Also alternating direction of your 1708 will also improve strength. The 1708 patches that I put on my transom that were almost 18 inches wide and progressive will also distribute weight of the motor. The patches were put at motor bolt hole pattern on the inside of the transom.

[Union Laker]

Nice work I am glad the fuel tank in mine was just replaced & All the work done in there, Just have a few soft spots near the back floor.

BTW nothing smells better than Low tide in the morning. :sun:

Keep it up you guys I need some inspiration ..... Nice work so far

[jasoncooperpcola]

I just realized something I need to do.....

The infloor livewell HAS got to go! I dislike it almost as much as the bottom paint. Going to get a BFH now and fix it.

[RWilson2526]

Great pics....the time to fix my floor is coming near and i know that pulling the cap is the right way to do it....doesnt look so bad when seeing it like that

[jasoncooperpcola]

Great pics....the time to fix my floor is coming near and i know that pulling the cap is the right way to do it....doesnt look so bad when seeing it like that

Bring her on down! I got the lift set up and ready for action! I thought it would be worse than what it actually was. The hardest part is the splashwell where the motor mounts, its glassed to the transom. Other than that, its as simple as start lifting and disconnecting wires, and hoses as you can get to them. Faster than reaching thru the rod boxes and getting ate up with fiberglass.

[jasoncooperpcola]

MJ can i get 'rebuild time" added to my thread title? This is going to be my rebuild thread.

This weekends project is cleaning the garage out. Also plan to remove the cuddy liner.

has anyone built a cradle for a V20? the guys on pensacola fishing forum are pushing hard for it, mainly to prevent a hook in the hull.

[tsubaki]

Exceptional pictures and work Jason!
Thanks for posting them!
Dang that's a pile of work.

[jasoncooperpcola]

In case, I have not said it yet, Thanks for everybody's replies and advice. :clap:
My computer absolutely hates photobucket :arrr: , but seeing how well they show on here makes it worth it. Besides for some reason my camera pics wont upload straight on the manage attachments bar.

Depending on how well this project goes, I may keep the 18 Fisherman, I have some ideas for her. Possibly cutting the sides down all the way around and turning her into a flats/bay boat with a custom layout and casting decks. And she might be getting the 2.5L Mercury 200 if I repower the V20. Hell it weighs the same as a 150 JohnnyRude.

[Union Laker]

In case, I have not said it yet, Thanks for everybody's replies and advice. :clap:
My computer absolutely hates photobucket :arrr: , but seeing how well they show on here makes it worth it. Besides for some reason my camera pics wont upload straight on the manage attachments bar.

Depending on how well this project goes, I may keep the 18 Fisherman, I have some ideas for her. Possibly cutting the sides down all the way around and turning her into a flats/bay boat with a custom layout and casting decks. And she might be getting the 2.5L Mercury 200 if I repower the V20. Hell it weighs the same as a 150 JohnnyRude.

Been having the same problem lately with Photobucket, old computer it would work great, this new Dell -- Well....


That is a ton of work you got done is she ready for paint yet?

[jasoncooperpcola]

LOL. It will be a while before she is ready for paint. still trying to get the garage cleaned out. I did get the cuddy liner broke loose yesterday and have to lift it out now.

[bradford]

Great thread and pics. I would build everything stronger than you would need now that you've gone this far. My fuel tank was a pain too, know what you mean about the swamp/sewer smell underneath.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Had three teeth pulled today and hoped to work on cleaning the garage. No luck, I was hurting so bad I HAD to get my pain medicine script filled. I had hoped to throw it away as I have done all the others.

Anyways the V had a substantial amount of water in it from rain. And it was draining out......... from around the high speed pickup mounted on the hull. Pretty good drip too. The V has always pulled hard to the starboard side. the pickup is mounted on the starboard side about a foot from the keel right where the cuddy starts. its in a bad location for what i need. i need it towards the stern for my livewell and washdown. should i move the pickup to the rear and repair the hole? just because it is a hole in the bottom of the boat i may have a pro do it.

[bgreene]

Wow that's some incredible work you've done ...... all the way to the bone.

Now you can re build the transom to be stronger than original - and therefore handle nearly any outboard you want to rig.

Good luck with it.

[smokeonthewater]

glassing the bottom is no worse than glassing anything else BUT if you for some reason don't want to then seal it up with a new thruhull and 5200 then plug it with a bronze pipe cap or a bushing and a bull plug.... my montecarlo had 4... 3 'ducers and 1 speed temp when I got it.... I put 1 'ducer in w speed temp built in and plugged all 3 of the others this way.

This also leaves you a place to hook up a raw water washdown in the future.

[Kracker Jack]

Jason I have all the confidence in the world that you can repair that hole. The internet and YouTube and other boat sites will tell you all the info you need to do a progressive patch on that spot. Can you acess the inside of that repair or only the outside?

[jasoncooperpcola]

Jason I have all the confidence in the world that you can repair that hole. The internet and YouTube and other boat sites will tell you all the info you need to do a progressive patch on that spot. Can you acess the inside of that repair or only the outside?

i can get to both the inside and outside. its just one of those things that i would feel paranoid about everytime i wet the boat lol . My West Systems book has a few different methods to repair it. I am leaning towards dishing out BOTH sides at an 8:1 ratio then doing an entire wet layup for the most strength. The V always had a wet bilge I just thought it was water leaking thru the floor livewell, either way it was a surprise to see water dripping like that from the pickup. Still trying to decide on epoxy or polyester resin. I will repair this hole with epoxy just for piece of mind. might even get some carbon fiber cloth to use in it

[jasoncooperpcola]

glassing the bottom is no worse than glassing anything else BUT if you for some reason don't want to then seal it up with a new thruhull and 5200 then plug it with a bronze pipe cap or a bushing and a bull plug.... my montecarlo had 4... 3 'ducers and 1 speed temp when I got it.... I put 1 'ducer in w speed temp built in and plugged all 3 of the others this way.

This also leaves you a place to hook up a raw water washdown in the future.

Smoke, the location of this hole is in a bad spot. Hard to access, and it is almost against a stringer. Not to mention I dont want any more holes in the bottom than I need. I was hoping to mount a high speed pickup on the bottom towards the stern. The way i plan to build the transom area i will have tons of access there for a livewell and saltwater washdown connections.

[smokeonthewater]

I highly recommend use epoxy resin.... MUCH 'gooder' and much harder to screw up.
IMHO it is well worth the extra expense.

[tartuffe]

With regard to your boat pulling hard to starboard, that has more to do with your trim tab (behind the prop) not being adjusted correctly. I can turn my boat with one finger to port while it takes my entire hand with some muscle to go to starboard. My trim tab is boogered up so it cannot be properly adjusted.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Tartuffe I had the trim tab kicked to port side quite a bit. I think with the pickup mounted forward like it is gives it more "leverage" I did get the pipe that runs under the fuel tank removed and now the boat will drain. now i have a sea of foam to deal with. i knew i should have vaccumed it out when dry. the cuddy liner is loose ready to be pulled when i get a chance to lift it out. i really do not think it is going back in.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Got the cuddy liner out. It is not going back in. I can do better than that...... I hope. I have hammer tested everywhere in the boat. The only solid member left is the piece in the bow that is v shaped. So everything will have to come out.

[reelapeelin]

Jason that's some GREAT WORK!...that's just what my '84 needs...I'm surprised to see that much foam!...as ya put it all back anticipating bigger HP, just remember you can put it back STRONGER no doubt...but more weight is more weight and it may tend to squat w/too much.

So yer gonna rebuild inside of cuddy from scratch?...and if yer gonna leave out the floor well, can you move the bulkhead forward and go w/a bigger (longer) fuel tank?...

[jasoncooperpcola]

Reel that is my plan. I want to go to a 100 gallon fuel tank. Should be 2/3rds longer than the stock tank. I could not believe how good of condition my tank was. I am still debating tank placement. It seems my floor is good in the cap so I almost want to keep the tank in the rear just because I have the access to it. I thought the cuddy top deck was rotted out, its not. One of the supporting members that runs all the way across in front of the slide had broke loose. I discovered that when I pulled the carpet out. I am also pondering a pilot house build and worried about too much forward weight if I move the fuel tank forwards. When I stick it all back together the cap is getting glassed to the hull. I was quite suprised too about the foam in her. I thought that someone on here said they only sprayed around the edges of the cap from the rodboxes?

[jasoncooperpcola]

Got a little free time and removed the glass over the transom core. I think for its age the transom is in ok shape. I was expecting worse. But the only bad areas are where holes were drilled. Yet the top engine mount holes had no soft. Trying to remove the plywood now.

Here are a few pics. Notice how much was cut off the stringers where they attach to the transom. And still trying to figure out the hole above the bilge plug hole.

[jasoncooperpcola]

My transom core is in three pieces each two layers of plywood. So far its all wet. Got one layer off the port side.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Now got one layer off starboard side. Its half wet.

[Kracker Jack]

Jason my stringers were not even attached to my transom!! They were 3/4 of and inch off the transom.

[jasoncooperpcola]

I tried four times to upload pics. Not happening. Kracker my stringers are not attached either. Yet they are cut perfectly to match the transom curve. Do i need to leave this last layer in the transom for lifting and moving the boat or can i remove it?

[jasoncooperpcola]

Ok I am bored. Rest of the plywood is coming out. Also cut the lifewell off the bottom of the cap. It has a half inch of either insulation or a composite material around it. So it might actually be an insulated fishbox and not a livewell.

[Kracker Jack]

The outside skin on my boat was thick enough that if you want to run an eyelet thru the glass you could to lift it. When my boat was gutted me and my buddy could lift the back of the boat off the trailer like it was nothing. Rip it out!!!! Lol!!!

[jasoncooperpcola]

Had to take a break to run mom to the store to get stuff to fry the mullet I caught yesterday. So far I have all the plywood off the starboard side, all but a skin in the middle, and half off the port side. Next will be cleaning it up with a cup wire wheel on my side grinder. Also it must matter having the stringers tied correctly to the transom. When i cut the glass skin off i cut a "u" around the stringers. On the starboard side i pulled the tabbing off the stringer with no effort. It was already broke. Port side transom/stringer tabbing is still solid. Kracker you did your transom core all in one piece didn't you? Due to my bracket design, I am only installing one piece of marine ply in the transom and would like to do it in one piece if possible for the most strength. I know you did two layers, but did you cut each layer into pieces?
So far all the core has been wet. It has been abouy four or six months since I removed the outboard and swim platform.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Also got a few questions. Is it worth the effort to build a cradle for the boat to avoid a hook in the hull?

And I want to do a transom door. Would one layer of plywood provide enough strength to allow this. I will build knees to help with stability. Also the transom is getting closed off. UNLESS, I use the existing motor slot as a transom door and build a closure that slides in and out for access and to keep water out?

[jasoncooperpcola]

Got the bulk of the transom plywood out. Whats left is skin in places. Tried to upload pic but all I get is invalid post specified. Not sure if its my phone. Kracker I was able to lift one corner of the transom off the trailer, which really surprised me. And i still have foam and stringers in it.

[tartuffe]

Why will you need only one layer of ply on your transom? Are you still extending your sringers into the bracket? I would hold off on doing anything with that transom door until you are in the final stages of your restoration. Really if your going to cut your splash well out then enclose all your transom except for a 20" width and have the bottom of the passage 25" above your keel and don't worry with a door.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Yes Tartuffe I am building what I call an outrigger bracket. I am buiding my normal stringer setup, but in the back, there will be sister stringers that extend out the back 30" and marry up to the main stringers for 66". The stringers extending out the transom will be the sides of my bracket. So I add a bottom, top, and figure out a mounting pad across the back. Then I have a flotation bracket. I am still glassing it off to the transom to spread weight. However wide the main stringers are will be my bracket width. Should provide enough flotation for my plan of twins in the future. But what I am truly gaining is 2' of back deck that was taken by the splashwell. That is what really has me excited.

[macojoe]

how are you posting pictures?? from your computer or from photobucket or another site??
I using photobucket or other hosting site, open your pic, right click it and copy the thing that says Copy image URL then come here to your post and hit the icon that looks like 2 mountains and a sun, put the copyed address in the little window and hit submit, your done!!
if from your puter go to the bottom of this post and hit mange you attachement and follow the instructions.

[jasoncooperpcola]

MJ I have been posting some pics from my phone. I have not figured out how to photobucket on my phone. I can upload pics to photobucket but thats all I can do on my phone. So I just use the manage attachments bar which worked fine till yesterday. It does not work on the local fishing forum either?? So i think its a phone problem. Trying to figure out photobucket mobile.

Internet is off at the house so mobile is all I have now.

[macojoe]

ok, well i am of no help, i have a regular flip phone and don't even use it for the net or anything, i don't even text!! :head:

[jasoncooperpcola]

ok, well i am of no help, i have a regular flip phone and don't even use it for the net or anything, i don't even text!! :head:

Thanks MJ. I think my problem is this prepaid at&t cheap phone. But I refuse to go on a contract plan!

[jasoncooperpcola]

test

It worked? Well, this is the transom out of my V20.

[jasoncooperpcola]

I spent a while trying to decide on my bracket design. I wanted the most flotation yet also wanted the most for performance potential. I liked the Hemco brackets how they have a v bottom yet I like the stainless because of their flat bottom that swoops up. So I decided onba hybrid design. A 13" pad that then follows the bottom angle up. It is 3" off the bottom on the angled sides and 4 5/8" off the bottom at the keel to the pad. 4 5/8" is the height from the keel to the first strakes. Then I had to decide on how tall to make the bracket. Spare mentioned to make the tub as tall as possible. But it did not look right with the motor cut out. It looked out of proportion. UNTIL I slid a piece of plywood over the cutout. Then it looked good! The outside of the tape is my final bracket outline. Still have to decide whether to make it swoop up or not.

[macojoe]

most converts are closed transoms, so the plywood in the cut out is not a issue. as far as swooping, i would think you have to do it as when you give the boat gas on take off, the rear is going in the water, lots of drag there if no swoop. while planning the rear is going to go down some.
I have the SS Marine type bracket on both of my boats and they are great with the swoop, on the Ox its just a single and on the wellcraft it was the type with the platform, I took a 10 footer with the wellcraft and filled the boat with water. motor stayed up and running with all that weight!! the rear of the boat was in the water but the motor was able to stay 3 or so inches above to run, when the 2nd wave came it lifted the boat and motor was running and we manged to live.

Just somrthing to think about??

[jasoncooperpcola]

When I mentioned the plywood, I was meaning it was an illussion without it. Transom will be a closed transom. But I do not like the way the top of the transom angles up. I prefer it flat from side to side. So that means a little more cap modification. As is I am almost cutting the entire back of the cap off to accomplish what I want my boat to be.

I have sinned. I have been on Classic SeaCraft looking at bracket builds. Not the first home built bracket has any swoop. All leveled v bottoms. Everybody is building molds. I was thinking with my outriggered stringers I could glass a top, bottom, and a motor mount on and call it done. Wondering If i need to rethink that. I want to go wider with my bracket, but I do not think I can with trim tabs. As is fully submerged I have 700lbs of flotation minus the bracket weight. I think its around 400lbs flotation at rest. I decided against a full width platform.

MJ one thing I did notice was with my Merc being a 25" shaft she should be high.

[macojoe]

BS, has built at least 3 and they have all been as you describe, he has done it on Seacrafts the one he did for his self and one other he did a 30" shaft, and WOW what a difference, the boat performed better then the other andthe motor is out of the water!! Mine are 25 and the motor sits close to the water all the time and is a bit scary at times. If I was to do it I would go with a 30" and V the bottom same as boat, now making the boat a 22 footer instead of a 20 footer. Trim tabs this way might be able to be mounted on the bracket?? as it will be the rear of the boat now?? I am just thinking not sure if its doable, I will ask BS tomorrow

Here is one he made
http://www.wellcraftv20.com/gallery/albums/album197/pic_035_Medium.jpg

Here is a thread of a build he did with pic from beginning to end came out great!
http://www.wellcraftv20.com/community/showthread.php?t=7630&highlight=bracket

[jasoncooperpcola]

His did come out good. But one thing I have noticed is how heavy they are built. This is because they are bolted to the boat. I know that the outrigger stringer bracket is a much simpler and more capable design. The bracket is literally part of the boat not a bolt on.

[macojoe]

it was only about 100 pounds a little more, and gave 400 pounds of float. the stainless marine is 125#, and gives like 315# of float

[jasoncooperpcola]

I am thinking the outrigger bracket will weigh a little over 100lbs. Using marine ply for the stringers and motor mount. The rest will hopefully be divinycell as the rest is the float chamber. I am thinking about going even wider with my bracket. Wider to the point, that its over my trim tabs and the actuator itself will determine where the bracket stops. Trying to get a 48" wide chamber. Then that leaves me room for twin engines without modification. The engines really need to be on 34 1/2" centers. But I want them as wide apart as possible. But for now its getting the single 2.5L Merc. Unless I find another during tax time. :sly:

[smokeonthewater]

mebbe think outside the box.... If you really want to maximise it then just make it the whole width of the boat and put the tabs on the bracket.... the further back, the more effective they are with less input... IE more efficient/faster

[jasoncooperpcola]

Good idea Smoke. But I am thinking the bracket will be out of the water when on plane. I have never owned a bracket boat so this is new. It will be 30" setback. But yeah, I have no problem mounting tabs on the bracket if they will still be effective. My bracket willbe 3" off the bottom of the boat.

[smokeonthewater]

If the bracket is out of the water then the tabs couldn't be on it.... maybe it should be even with the bottom of the boat with just the SLIGHTEST amount of rocker factored in to help lift the bow when tabs are retracted for max speed..... dunno.... might be virgin water here.

[macojoe]

I have seen a few brackets custom made same as the hull, this way you 20 footer would be a 23 footer, then you can add the tabs to the bracket as its the same as the hull, not raised.

[jasoncooperpcola]

But wouldn't that be a hull extension, and not a bracket? The main reason I am going to bracket is for the performance and safety of a closed transom. I think if I take the bracket to the tabs that will be enough flotation. So 30" setback 44" wide and 20" tall with about 10" submerged. So thats ~550lbs flotation at normal water level and over a thousand if fully submerged. Minus the bracket weight.

[jasoncooperpcola]

On the pilot house, just doing some rough measuring. 44" off the windshield mounting suface gives me a couple inches over my head of clearance. Should I increase that to 48"? Also having a clearance issue with the front. If I follow the original windscreens angle that puts the windscreen and drivers head in the same spot. Its either angle the windshield up more or move the helm back. I am going to cut some plywood to mock one side of the pilothouse and see how it looks. I am thinking of doing a pilothouse roughly four or five feet back from the windscreen. I wont need a massive pilot house but it needs to allow clearance for access to my fishboxes with the back wall installed. The back wall will be a cold weather install. Otherwise its an open back. Any suggestions? Its hard figuring out how to make a pilothouse work on a 20' boat.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Scrap plywood mockup. Nobody use the b word!

[macojoe]

That should work nice!! But with most CC, I have seen they have their house's
more to the rear of the boat, thats why CC ride better, not so much weight forward. But I am sure at this point you know what you're doing!! So I will :shut:

[Kracker Jack]

I'm gonna be honest...I liking it!!! Looks good dude.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Its 74" long at the gunnel, with the cap out of the hull it all looks out of proportion. Once I drop the cap back in, I will mount the mock up again. This was just to see how it would flow with the lines. Its 6' 3" headroom inside. Windows are 24" tall. I would like to make it longer butbI believe once the roof and front window mock is mounted, that It will all look better. Its really a simple design. The most complicated part is the actual windshield opening for the cuddy slide.

[reelapeelin]

I'm w/MJ...I like that exact profile...how much overhang you planning all around?...

[jasoncooperpcola]

Reel I really have not thought about overhang. Maybe 8-10" front and back and 4" on the sides? I like the profile but I may drop the cap back in the hull to check how propportioned it is. I may go back another two feet and make it longer. But I am already over the gunnel rod boxes, I do not want to take all my back deck yet, without the back and door on that is full access shade that I can fish from. I need some opinions on making it longer. Thanks for the comments everybody.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Reel you got me thinking, what about just doing a two foot rear overhang on what I have now?

[reelapeelin]

Reel you got me thinking, what about just doing a two foot rear overhang on what I have now?

That's REELY why I asked about about overhang...like me, you sound concerned about taking up floor space...I don't know your priorities in the outcome of this project...shade or cockpit space?...or other?...two feet out sounds excessive to me, but might be just right for you...when holding pressure on a fish, that rods gotta have plenty of room to be held STRAIGHT UP...and my concern is too much out the back will be restrictive when it counts...but again, that's me..you may have other priorities...

[jasoncooperpcola]

I have been running that scenario through my head also. I love to drift fish over reefs and wrecks. But my main goal with this build is bluewater fishing. Even having Bluewater V20 decals made. I am looking at trolling for wahoo, tuna, and my ultimate goal is a swordfish. Thinking about it, yeah its all around fishing types. I have never held a rod straight up with a fish on except when its boat side and we want to stick it with the gaff. I would also like to get back into King Tournament fishing. I will have to do a mock up of my roof and see how it works. Something else, is a V20 stable enough to mount a crows nest? Or do yall think that will be too dangerous?

[macojoe]

A lot of cc don't have a ton of space in the rear of the boat. The overhang will be nice, but you only need enough to let the water run off, and not down your back when under way. For shade get a good hat! I love my hard top, never have to wear a hat anymore, but it can get in the way when casting a lot, but I do most all bottom fishing.
As far as a crows nest, It has been done on the V20, and we have seen some pic's, but know one has ever said how they go?? I would think a small lower type might not be to bad, but if you make one to high you going to have issues. You know what would be nice, a sunroof in your pilot house with a small ladder to step up on, stick your head out the top and get a great view without building anything to high?? Just popped in my head as I am typing.

Whatever its coming out great!! Keep it going you have a whole winter to go before you need it.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Good idea MJ! I have seen center consoles with an opening in the t-top and you stand on the console for increased view. I might do that! If I do decide to go to a cabin roof mounted crows nest it would also make access easier, since I would not have to crawl across the top. FYI I am not wanting a tower, just a crows nest on the roof, maybe with controls too?

And MJ what do you mean by cc? Center console or cuddy cabin?

[reelapeelin]

Good idea MJ! I have seen center consoles with an opening in the t-top and you stand on the console for increased view. I might do that! If I do decide to go to a cabin roof mounted crows nest it would also make access easier, since I would not have to crawl across the top. FYI I am not wanting a tower, just a crows nest on the roof, maybe with controls too?

And MJ what do you mean by cc? Center console or cuddy cabin?

Just keep in mind our Vs are only 20' w/not a bunch of beam...so whatever weight you mount on high will tend to exagerate the rock n roll of a beam sea...if were me, I'd put the hatch through the top w/a sturdy rail up there for security and call it a day...go w/that for a while, then see if you WANT controls up there...you can always add...and the weight up high issue...a top sturdy enough to stand on is already gonna be heavy to start with...

[jasoncooperpcola]

Just keep in mind our Vs are only 20' w/not a bunch of beam...so whatever weight you mount on high will tend to exagerate the rock n roll of a beam sea...if were me, I'd put the hatch through the top w/a sturdy rail up there for security and call it a day...go w/that for a while, then see if you WANT controls up there...you can always add...and the weight up high issue...a top sturdy enough to stand on is already gonna be heavy to start with...

REEL, the top will be plenty sturdy if I use a pole like BlueRunner has in his boat! :you:

Back on topic. I am thinking its around 6.5' from side to side which the roof will span. I can always do what XShark did in the Mako build and arch it. Still might run stringers across. One layer of 3/4" will support me, and with stringers it ought to support twice my weight. If I go with twin motors I wont even install a steering helm on the top, just the throttles and shifts. Still working on the details.

[smokeonthewater]

IMHO... 3/4 is WAY too much! with ply and glass combined, keep it under 1/2" with a few 3/4" stringers... definately arch it at least a little..
Your electronics box can be structural... a 4" high 1/8" sheer panel ( the back of the box) can be VERY strong

one layer of 3/4 with glass, stringers, and proper engineering would easily support you AND a volkswagon

[reelapeelin]

REEL, the top will be plenty sturdy if I use a pole like BlueRunner has in his boat! :you:

Back on topic. I am thinking its around 6.5' from side to side which the roof will span. I can always do what XShark did in the Mako build and arch it. Still might run stringers across. One layer of 3/4" will support me, and with stringers it ought to support twice my weight. If I go with twin motors I wont even install a steering helm on the top, just the throttles and shifts. Still working on the details.

Twin whats?

[jasoncooperpcola]

Twin whats?

Either twin 100hp carbed Mercs or for the better power to weight ratio twin 2.5L Mercs. The 100 Mercs are 275lbs each, the 2.5L 200 is 395lbs. I want to have about 230-250hp total, but the 115/125 Mercs put me in the position where I might as well go with the 2.5L. I know its heavy, the bracket will help at rest. But I will mock the weight of another motor and do some in water testing. Yeah, I know it sounds crazy. :sly:

[macojoe]

And MJ what do you mean by cc? Center console or cuddy cabin?


CC, Center Console Cuddy, for a cuddy cabin

as stated above keep it simple, you don't want a lot of weight up there.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Transom cleanup is almost done. I have all the plywood pieces off the skin, and just need to run the sander over the fiberglass. BUT I still have this pink/white filler left on each side. Its two inches thick. I have been chiseling away at it but now I found my welding chipping hammer does better. Is this cabosil?

[Kracker Jack]

Transom cleanup is almost done. I have all the plywood pieces off the skin, and just need to run the sander over the fiberglass. BUT I still have this pink/white filler left on each side. Its two inches thick. I have been chiseling away at it but now I found my welding chipping hammer does better. Is this cabosil?

Take pics. I'm not sure what your saying about it being 2 inches thick.

[jasoncooperpcola]

I will take pics after I vote for Romney. By two inches thick, I meant there was a two inch gap on each side of the transom core and it was filled with this pink white filler.

[Kracker Jack]

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm75/sandbridgeco/3Ge3M33L75Y25Ed5P5cb8b5f59384784b1be1.jpg

Jason this picture just caught my eye. If you decide no to do the pilot house here is a closed console design. It is a very easy modification to do.

[jasoncooperpcola]

That is an easy modification. I have got so many ideas for this project and the center console cuddy is still in the back of my head. Possibly adding two feet to the hull so I might have even more room.

As read on iBoats Hull Extension Thread, buy a little each week and your wallet will never know what you are doing.

[reelapeelin]

As read on iBoats Hull Extension Thread, buy a little each week and your wallet will never know what you are doing.


:haha:...LMFAO!!...:you:

[Kracker Jack]

That is an easy modification. I have got so many ideas for this project and the center console cuddy is still in the back of my head. Possibly adding two feet to the hull so I might have even more room.

As read on iBoats Hull Extension Thread, buy a little each week and your wallet will never know what you are doing.

That's what I've done with my boat...a little at a time. I just went and purchased what I think will be my last 5 gallons of resin and glass.

[jasoncooperpcola]

That's what I've done with my boat...a little at a time. I just went and purchased what I think will be my last 5 gallons of resin and glass.

Awesome! I will be building mine from pizza wages. The only thing really worrying me is electronics. But first I need to modify my garage. I have posts in the center. Builing beams to replace them then I can get the V in there. First I have to find motivation to clean it out lol.

[reelapeelin]

That's what I've done with my boat...a little at a time. I just went and purchased what I think will be my last 5 gallons of resin and glass.

I like that...just think..when yer done w/the boat, you got a boat AND a RAISE!!...:party:

[Kracker Jack]

Jason don't sweat electronics because you have a long time to search and find decent electronics at a good deal. I was sweating just like you in the beginning about things that were 10 to 12 months down the road. Things just seem to pop up trust me. Check Craigslist list every night, you mind find something you will need for the boat but will not need it till later in the build and when you do need it its double the cost.

[Kracker Jack]

I like that...just think..when yer done w/the boat, you got a boat AND a RAISE!!...:party:

Isn't that the truth!!!

[bgreene]

Very impressive work - it's likely to be a fantastic rig when you're done.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Over the next few weeks I want to go boat "shopping". I would like to go ahead with a hull extension of 2-4'. Cut some off the cuddy, and build an enclosed pilot house center console. Something like the Everglades and Boston Whalers. I have a feeling I might be getting kicked off some boat lots for not looking at boats to buy them. I need to design something completely enclosable for cold weather.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Not doing a hull extension, just too much work for me.
Cleaning out the garage. Ugh. My garage has posts down the middle supporting the roof. Leaves me 116" between post and wall. My V20 is 96" at her widest and 86" at the stern. Going to be a tight fit with the posts. Contemplating building 2x12 beams so I can take the posts out. Oh and this thing is full of spiders. I hate spiders.....

[macojoe]

in my building i used 2 x 12, 3 together and made them go 24 feet long, then used 3 steel columns, one on each end, and one in the middle. thats what holds up my 2nd floor.

you can see them here

http://www.wellcraftv20.com/gallery/albums/album200/021_G.sized.jpg

[jasoncooperpcola]

Mj that was my plan but no middle column. Instead I turned the V20 around on the trailer with the bow pointing backwards and backed it into my garage. Now the stern is facing the garage door and I do not have to walk all the way around to get in. Seems like a good plan so far.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Been busting foam out. I used a trenching shovel and got 3/4 of the foam out in about an hour. Getting ready for work so had to call quits for now. The V has blocks under the stern and one about 8' back from the bow. Also have screw jacks on each side at this locations for stability. Need to add more blocking before I tear the stringers out. Hopefully I can avoid a hook this way.

[jasoncooperpcola]

After discovering bubbles in the gelcoat on the bottom I almost gave up on her. I have Patriot Yacht Services coming by to look at the bubbles. Hopefully with his advice it wont be a nightmare. I looked at several V20 center consoles today. All had rotten floors and busted hatch lids. Sellers wanted $1000-$1500 just for the boat alone. All had some stringer rot. One was so bad I offered him $300 and he pretty much told me to leave. So back on my V20. I got her flipped over and back in the garage. At least it will be easier now to work on the bottom. I am going to paint it while its flipped. Interlux VC epoxy, over an eppxy barrier coat. This V keeps getting closer and closer to a death sentance but somehow everytime she wins me back over. Gonna be a brand new boat when I am finished.

[macojoe]

To fix I would think its not that bad?? You will have to grind all the bubbles then re gel-coat it. But after all you have done and learned I think you can do it!!

Good Luck

[tartuffe]

That performance vc is a great product, painted about 4 coats with 30 minutes between coats and sanded down to my desired finish. Used a2000 for a primer because I had exposed fibers from my hull being in such bad shape. I sprayed a nice thick coat, sprayed with black spray paint, sanded with and orbital sander with 120 grit and then block sanded the low spots until all the black paint was gone. Repeated that process 4 times to get a great fair finish. Probably not necessary to do that many coats below the waterline but if you paint above the waterline with a gloss finish completely necessary.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Good info Tartuffe! What Patriot discussed with me for repair is to open EVERY BUBBLE (>1000), sand with 120, give it a good wipe down, then fill with thickened epoxy, fair with 3m underwater epoxy filler, then paint.

[Kracker Jack]

hey Jason, are you using an epoxy system on the whole boat?

[jasoncooperpcola]

Kracker, I am purchasing epoxy resin from US Composites to do the stringers, transom closure, and bracket. I will either use Interprotect 2000E or coat the entire bottom with epoxy for a barrier coat. I should be able to add fillers in to the US Composites epoxy for fairing. Heck even all the paint will be epoxy, Interlux Perfection and VC epoxy. I just hope my wallet can support all this.

[tartuffe]

Looks like just a bad case of gelcoat blisters. Personally I would sand with something a little more aggressive like 80 grit, wipe down, spray several coats of a2000 (4 or 5 coats) since you don't need to sand between coats the more the better and skip the part where you fill with thickened epoxy. I found that thickened epoxy and even epoxy resin with fillers can leave itty-bitty pinholes that are a real pain to fill.

That A2000 is some REALLY thick stuff that will need to be thinned 25% just to begin to get it through a gun with a 1.8 tip and forget the internal filter screen. The nice thing is that is puts down a thick coat to fair that adds a second layer of protection under your performance VC

[tartuffe]

One thing I would research if I do it again is vinylester. I never dreamed I would have gone through 21 gallons on epoxy on this project. I would still use epoxy on some items but my larger layups like the stringers that soaked up gallons in one layup probably could have been done with vinylester at a huge savings.

I overbuilt as well so you can probably get through with half as much. I'm 11 months into this project and almost ready to put the cap back on.

[Kracker Jack]

One thing I would research if I do it again is vinylester. I never dreamed I would have gone through 21 gallons on epoxy on this project. I would still use epoxy on some items but my larger layups like the stringers that soaked up gallons in one layup probably could have been done with vinylester at a huge savings.

I overbuilt as well so you can probably get through with half as much. I'm 11 months into this project and almost ready to put the cap back on.

Which was my point exactly. Vinlyester is a great product to use. I used oily because I was on a serious budget. Buy vinyl is great for what your doing.

[jasoncooperpcola]

I will definately look into it. What resin is good for building a leaning post, livewell, tackle center. And a pilot house center console? Nothing will be mold built its all going to be glass covered Marine ply. I am shooting for an Everglades type console.

[Kracker Jack]

I will definately look into it. What resin is good for building a leaning post, livewell, tackle center. And a pilot house center console? Nothing will be mold built its all going to be glass covered Marine ply. I am shooting for an Everglades type console.

And this is when the the long drawn battle begins between Poly,vinyl and epoxy. They all have there ups and downs. Polyester is at the bottom of the list it just doesn't have the ahesion the other 2 have but its cheap!!! Then you have vinylester which has good adhesion but is a little more expensive than poly. I wish now i would have spent the extra money and went with vinyl. Then you have epoxy which of course is the best but is ridiculously expensive!!!!

[tartuffe]

Something that can be completely glassed in one session and then bolted or screwed to the boat is a good candidate for vinylester; pilot house, tackle station

You can start a project with epoxy and come back within 24 hours without having to sand and you will still get a chemical bond. Vinylester requires sanding to get a good bond. Basically if sanding is easy than vinylester but if its an area where strength is critical (bracket) epoxy. Not that vinylester won't work but epoxy is much more forgiving of applicator error.

Real good example is if I was replacing my transom from the inside again I would try vinylester on my next go around but if I had to replace it from the outside as in cut the skin off then I would use epoxy.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Got to do a little sanding on the bottom paint today. It is much easier on a flipped hull. Got about half of the port(?) side done. The entire keel is still covered with bottom paint. And it is the worst. My plan to tackle the keel is 40 grit paper and a big fan. This paint is 3/16" thick in spots. I have been chiseling off the thickest and sanding. I just wonder how much weight I am removing. Not to mention all the gel coat damage I have uncovered.

[jasoncooperpcola]

So far the wood chisel is the best tool for removing this paint. Takes quite a bit of elbow grease but its coming off! Working the keel now. Got the bulk off both sides and just have around the strakes left.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Question. My cap has a section by the helm on each side where it steps out about three inches and is about thirty inches tall and about thirty six inches long. Is this to allow clearance for the curve in the hull? I want to remove it.

[jasoncooperpcola]

V20 got wet today! I have a massive leak in the roof.
I have not touched it since I bought my kayak. And also mud riding.

[reelapeelin]

V20 got wet today! I have a massive leak in the roof.
I have not touched it since I bought my kayak. And also mud riding.


I just reread this entire thread..what an amazing journey...Jason yer gonna have a helluva boat when ya get done...the gel blisters you found are exactly like I found on my '84...had a feelin the guy comin out to look would be high...the pilot FRONT on the center console looks like a way to go to me...protection w/out excessive weight..and whatever ya wanna enclose after that, can be done w/canvas & eisenglass(removable)...goin' way back in the thread; swooping the bracket up and putting the tabs on the stern of the boat seems to me the best solution...I expect lots of thought since those thoughts were posted...I keep thinkin about twins on a V20 and cannot add it up...Spareparts pointed out never expect ONE of a pair of twins to plane the boat up in case the other has failed...if it does, it's PROPPED IMPROPERLY...this made sense after he explained twins are propped to work as twins...JMHO, but a big HP single w/a 15-25 HP kicker w/steering link to main engine for get-home if ever needed...I also think the get-home motor should have its own fuel supply in case the main fuel supply is disabled or contaminated...

One other thing...age old difference of opinion; you mentioned buying Marine grade ply...I think you can save yourself some moiney and buy regular plywood for coring...the whole idea is to isolate (seal off) what ever core material whether wood or foam from getting wet at all...if all your glass work is done right, you really shouldn't need Marine Grade...

Keep the great pix comin'!!

[jasoncooperpcola]

Thanks Reel! I know what I want her to be. Its just having the time and money to do it. Working two jobs and going to school does not leave alot of time. I have been fishing at night. I am about to lose my ATV due to my bank being crooks. So I will work on the boat while saving cash for another quad.

I am still undecided on my outboard situation. More than likely the V20 will become a mothership for kayaks in bluewater fishing. I watched a guy at school work on a Reef Runner. What an idiot. His foam was wet so he tore the floor out and all the foam. He then decided computer packaging foam was ok to use. I wont even go into all the details. He would not listen to any advice. I do not want my build to be like that!

[jasoncooperpcola]

Here's another pretty cool idea for a console design.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj199/jasoncooperpcola/ForumRunner_20130716_175703.jpg

[jasoncooperpcola]

Well my buddy needed to borrow my boat trailer. So the 18 Fish has been sitting on it. Got it unloaded and was checking tire pressure and the right front tire moved a bit when I put the air chuck on it. Pulled the cap and nut and the bearing fell onto the ground in pieces. Checked the others and all the seals are eat up by rusted spindles. So I need 2 axles, 4 hubs, 4 springs, and a couple new cross members because they are rusted out. Also need a new tonque .

[Destroyer]

Well my buddy needed to borrow my boat trailer. So the 18 Fish has been sitting on it. Got it unloaded and was checking tire pressure and the right front tire moved a bit when I put the air chuck on it. Pulled the cap and nut and the bearing fell onto the ground in pieces. Checked the others and all the seals are eat up by rusted spindles. So I need 2 axles, 4 hubs, 4 springs, and a couple new cross members because they are rusted out. Also need a new tonque .

Sounds more like you need a new (Good used) trailer. By the time you invest in the parts and labor to repair your present one it might just be cheaper to find a good used one. Winter is getting nearer, and some boats didn't make it through the summer, but their trailers did. Good buys can be had. Also, check Boat Angel in eBay. They always have project boats that people donate for peanuts, and a lot of times they have decent trailers on under them... buy the boat and scrap it and keep the trailer...

[jasoncooperpcola]

I know this has been dead but I want to get started on it again. I have no motor and really no trailer. I am selling my kayak to help fund material costs.

I would like to do a floatation bracket, solid transom, and remove some of the cuddy and build an Everglades style enclosed console. I am still undecided on a motor but it will have to be a 25" shaft for the bracket. I am going to school for Marine Engine repair so I may pick up a project motor.

Right now the V is bottom up in the garage. I have to grind out all the gelcoat blisters and fill with epoxy. Then doing a barrier coat followed by the Interlux VC epoxy. Then the bottom is done and she can be flipped back upright.

[franko]

with separation, you certainly have complete access….good luck