Soldier denied service at Muslim owned service station

[lathehand]

There'll be more of this if that idiot in Washington gets back in.And the sad part people are still going in and buying from these ragheads.Watch the vid all the way through
http://freevideocoding.com/flvplayer.swf?file=http://edge.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/video/2197455/82596709.mp4&autostart=true

[jeffmo]

The not serving a member of the military was as wrong as can be.
Boycott the store and hit them where it hurts.
But whoever the narrator is definately needs some help also.

[Destroyer]

I always thought that as long as a store was open to the public they had a legal obligation to serve anyone as long as the person was not being disruptive. Seems to me that the soldier has grounds for a lawsuit.
In all cases that's :cen: disgusting and I wouldn't be at all surprised if lightning hit that gas station and burned it to the ground some night.

[RWilson2526]

First it probably never happened, 2nd the guy that shot the video is an *******....and 3rd I really dont see how the outcome of our upcoming election has any bearing on the way these people behave.

[THEFERMANATOR]

First it probably never happened, 2nd the guy that shot the video is an *******....and 3rd I really dont see how the outcome of our upcoming election has any bearing on the way these people behave.

There is a few news reports of it happening, and several other reports of others doing it, I feel that the guy who made the video was spirited but I could understand his anger after something like this occurring, and our current commander in thief has done a poor job of hiding his muslim beliefs and 4 more years of him and his pandering to them could have us like europe with the riots.

[Destroyer]

First it probably never happened, 2nd the guy that shot the video is an *******....and 3rd I really dont see how the outcome of our upcoming election has any bearing on the way these people behave.

Well, gotta disagree a tad with you Rob..

1) It did happen. It was covered by a local news station. The gas station owner and manager apologised publicly. You can watch the apology here: http://www.wdsu.com/news/local-news/new-orleans/Protesters-reach-resolution-with-Bogalusa-gas-station/-/9853400/14751860/-/psy2ycz/-/index.html
2) Although I tend to agree with you that the guy that shot the video was an a$$hole, as a Viet vet I can understand his anger, since similar things happened to me upon my return from Vietnam. It's easy to get caught up in the fervor of the moment.
3) I think that what Lathehand was trying to express is his mistrust of our present president, a person that is an avowed Christian and yet has publically stated that, to him, the "most beautiful sound in the world" is the morning call to prayer in the Muslem faith. However, I completely agree with you that it should not have any bearing on the gas station incident.

[willy]

Actually the story here is about the Muslim characters involved, not about the Obamination. Which we already know is a lying thieving socialist POS.

What you see here are people who found out about this and decided to take a stand. You are going to see a lot more of this in the coming years a many of us are tired of the politically correct crap protecting iceholes like these people in the station
By that I mean, well,have you seen any national news coverage of this?
No. If that had been a Vietnam Vet who owned the station and decided not to serve muslims do you think it would have been on every single news outlet in the country?
You know the answer.
Did you know that the Obamination by presidential fiat just gutted the Welfare Reform Act?
No. Why do you think that is?
You can find out on all the news casts what Girl Scout cookie he loves the best though.
Did you know that the Obamination said in a speech to American students on Friday that if you are a successful business man you did not do that, you had others that made it happen, and other quite literally communist statements in his address.
No?
Why do you think that is?
Did you know that according to the Fed Chairman in testimony before Congress stated flatly if the Obamination and his socialist arse wipe partner in the senate Harry Reid don't allow votes on legislation to happen in the senate on bills put forward by the congress soon it will be to late to stop an even larger and deeper recession from happening immediately in 2013.
He did reassure them that the fed was ready to step in with more money printing to keep the banks from collapsing.
Thank God!
My point is the media is controlling thought and society by selectively giving us what they think we should be told based on their left wing ideology and they are not happy at all that Americans who have brains are not getting their info from them exclusively anymore.
These people there got the info through social networking and the internet.
Just like we found out about it here, and the people in that community are standing up for whats right.
Good for them.

[Destroyer]

Actually the story here is about the Muslim characters involved, not about the Obamination. Which we already know is a lying thieving socialist POS.

What you see here are people who found out about this and decided to take a stand. You are going to see a lot more of this in the coming years a many of us are tired of the politically correct crap protecting iceholes like these people in the station
By that I mean, well,have you seen any national news coverage of this?
No. If that had been a Vietnam Vet who owned the station and decided not to serve muslims do you think it would have been on every single news outlet in the country?
You know the answer.
Did you know that the Obamination by presidential fiat just gutted the Welfare Reform Act?
No. Why do you think that is?
You can find out on all the news casts what Girl Scout cookie he loves the best though.
Did you know that the Obamination said in a speech to American students on Friday that if you are a successful business man you did not do that, you had others that made it happen, and other quite literally communist statements in his address.
No?
Why do you think that is?
Did you know that according to the Fed Chairman in testimony before Congress stated flatly if the Obamination and his socialist arse wipe partner in the senate Harry Reid don't allow votes on legislation to happen in the senate on bills put forward by the congress soon it will be to late to stop an even larger and deeper recession from happening immediately in 2013.
He did reassure them that the fed was ready to step in with more money printing to keep the banks from collapsing.
Thank God!
My point is the media is controlling thought and society by selectively giving us what they think we should be told based on their left wing ideology and they are not happy at all that Americans who have brains are not getting their info from them exclusively anymore.
These people there got the info through social networking and the internet.
Just like we found out about it here, and the people in that community are standing up for whats right.
Good for them.

You forgot to point out that Sec. of State Clinton, acting on Obama's orders, is about to sign the UN treaty on small arms.. and by doing so we, (American citizens) will be bound by it (because it's an international treaty) and will therefore loose our second ammendment rights to keep and bear arms.. It's just a little thing, easy to see how it could have been missed by the leftist controlled media. After all, lying about Romney outsourcing jobs while he was controlling Bain Capital, (even though he left 2 years before then) is much more important. He's trying to take away our guns.. all the better to rule you.


(you might want to go to www.dickmorris.com (http://www.dickmorris.com) and sign the petition against it)

[jeffmo]

Actually the story here is about the Muslim characters involved, not about the Obamination. Which we already know is a lying thieving socialist POS.

What you see here are people who found out about this and decided to take a stand. You are going to see a lot more of this in the coming years a many of us are tired of the politically correct crap protecting iceholes like these people in the station
By that I mean, well,have you seen any national news coverage of this?
No. If that had been a Vietnam Vet who owned the station and decided not to serve muslims do you think it would have been on every single news outlet in the country?
You know the answer.
Did you know that the Obamination by presidential fiat just gutted the Welfare Reform Act?
No. Why do you think that is?
You can find out on all the news casts what Girl Scout cookie he loves the best though.
Did you know that the Obamination said in a speech to American students on Friday that if you are a successful business man you did not do that, you had others that made it happen, and other quite literally communist statements in his address.
No?
Why do you think that is?
Did you know that according to the Fed Chairman in testimony before Congress stated flatly if the Obamination and his socialist arse wipe partner in the senate Harry Reid don't allow votes on legislation to happen in the senate on bills put forward by the congress soon it will be to late to stop an even larger and deeper recession from happening immediately in 2013.
He did reassure them that the fed was ready to step in with more money printing to keep the banks from collapsing.
Thank God!
My point is the media is controlling thought and society by selectively giving us what they think we should be told based on their left wing ideology and they are not happy at all that Americans who have brains are not getting their info from them exclusively anymore.
These people there got the info through social networking and the internet.
Just like we found out about it here, and the people in that community are standing up for whats right.
Good for them.


Amazing!
Some folks feel the same way towards Romney!
But on the speech issue,IF people would simply do a little research instead of believeing everything that comes from Fox news they just Might find more of the truth of the matter.
Fox news altered the video to make it appear as if the President did actuually say those things about business!

[willy]

No one altered the video, and i saw the whole speech from beginning to end. Unlike some I get my info from multiple sources and I do not drink either version of the Kool Aid.
If you watch his whole speech and you sit down and think about how you just heard that from an American President you will realize that we are in grave danger from a socialist/progressive sh!tbird who has an agenda to turn this country into something Karl Marx would appreciate.
If you don't see that then you do not know history, and you are driving with blinders on.
The reasons for that, well we all have to decide for ourselves.

[Destroyer]

I'm continually amazed that people are so STUPID as to fall for the BS that the current administration is trying to paint Mitt Romney with.

[jeffmo]

I'm continually amazed that people are so STUPID as to fall for the BS that the current administration is trying to paint Mitt Romney with.

my opinion comes from some of what romney has said and/or done not from any commercials about him or anything the Presidents has said about him.
In my line of work we've seen a serious short staffing issues for about 10 years now and it's made the job alot more dangerous.Romney doesn't believe they should be hired back.
Btw,call it however you like but the ultra conservatives have enough stupidity to go around also.

[Destroyer]

my opinion comes from some of what romney has said and/or done not from any commercials about him or anything the Presidents has said about him.
In my line of work we've seen a serious short staffing issues for about 10 years now and it's made the job alot more dangerous.Romney doesn't believe they should be hired back.
Btw,call it however you like but the ultra conservatives have enough stupidity to go around also.

You said that Romney doesn't believe they should be hired back. How do you know this? I've not seen one comment by Romney or any of his staffers concerning the hiring or firing of firefighters. Where did you hear that? Understand, I'm not arguing with you about manpower shortfalls, I'm just saying that I haven't seen any comments by Romney on that subject. (And by the way, this is a man [Romney] that is directly responsible for saving over 40,000 American jobs [union and non-union alike] and 73 American companies that would otherwise be out of business right now... including Staples and the third largest steel maker in the US.) So go tell those people that are working right now because of him that Romney is bad for business.

As for your comment about ultra-conservatives, of course there are some that are extreme in their thinking, but hardly in the same catagory or numbers as the mass of people that think that Obama is actually doing good. I'll stand by my original comment.

[jeffmo]

You said that Romney doesn't believe they should be hired back. How do you know this? I've not seen one comment by Romney or any of his staffers concerning the hiring or firing of firefighters. Where did you hear that? Understand, I'm not arguing with you about manpower shortfalls, I'm just saying that I haven't seen any comments by Romney on that subject. (And by the way, this is a man [Romney] that is directly responsible for saving over 40,000 American jobs [union and non-union alike] and 73 American companies that would otherwise be out of business right now... including Staples and the third largest steel maker in the US.) So go tell those people that are working right now because of him that Romney is bad for business.

As for your comment about ultra-conservatives, of course there are some that are extreme in their thinking, but hardly in the same catagory or numbers as the mass of people that think that Obama is actually doing good. I'll stand by my original comment.

Well,it wasn't just firefighters.it was also teachers and police officers.What the President wanted to do was to use some federal money to re-hire people in those professions who had been laid off due to the economy.Romney doesn't think it should happen.Neither Obama or Romney can hire or fire anyone in those professions but,federal money could be used to re-hire and get staffing back up to safe levels.I witnessed first hand what the current mindset of the republican party is when it comes to middle class public sector workers.I think that they are simply trying to push the ALEC agenda and the result would be that MANY middle class workers would see their pay and benefits cut while they simply would get richer.I don't mind people becoming rich through hard work but when they want to do it by hurting the quality of life of other people then I say that it's wrong.


I thought I'd list a few sources on Romneys statement so credibility wouldn't be an issue.

And I'll stand by my position also!
I think i should say that I'm a life long democrat who has a middle of the road outlook on most issues and politics.Like I've said before,the ultra righties and ultra-lefties are the ones ruining this nation.there's no compromise in either party and very little gets done because of it.
In the last election McCain was going to get my vote until he announced his choice of running mate.He recently spoke out about Michelle Bachmann and her attitude.HE is the exact type of politician we need many more of in this country.
I certainly don't agree wit every decision Obama has made but I think that He will try to look out for the average person far better than Romney ever would.

[Destroyer]

I thought I'd list a few sources on Romneys statement so credibility wouldn't be an issue. I await your sources

And I'll stand by my position also! No one said you shouldn't...just keep an open mind to what BOTH sides are saying and doing.

I think i should say that I'm a life long democrat (it shows)who has a middle of the road outlook on most issues and politics.Like I've said before,the ultra righties and ultra-lefties are the ones ruining this nation.there's no compromise in either party and very little gets done because of it. Oh, you mean like the Dems in the senate who haven't brought up a budget for a vote in over 3 YEARS?
In the last election McCain was going to get my vote until he announced his choice of running mate. She was the best part of his inept, tepid "campaign" He recently spoke out about Michelle Bachmann and her attitude. And she recently spoke out about his comments and his lack of an attitude. HE is the exact type of politician we need many more of in this country. OMG... I certainly do NOT agree with that statement.. he's an utter disaster, He's so wishy-washy it's an embarasement. I can't wait for him to be voted out of office.
I certainly don't agree with every decision Obama has made but I think that He will try to look out for the average person far better than Romney ever would. Depends on what you mean by "look out for".. If by "look out for" you mean rule or dictate over, then yes, I agree that Obama will "look out for" the average person much more than Romney will. If, on the other hand, by "look out for" you mean put people back to work, help them stand on their own two feet with less government and help them succeed in their lives, then I think your only choice is Romney.
.

[Destroyer]

What the President wanted to do was to use some federal money to re-hire people in those professions who had been laid off due to the economy. Romney doesn't think it should happen. Neither Obama or Romney can hire or fire anyone in those professions but,federal money could be used to re-hire and get staffing back up to safe levels. And now you have to ask yourself... WHY were those jobs let go in the first place? I'm guessing from your comments that money was the main issue... so what happens when the Federal Money that Obama wanted to use runs out? Do the people that were rehired simply get fired again? Or do you think that we (the taxpayers) should pay for them in perpetuity? Maybe if the people that hired them in the first place had kept the budgets tight none of this would have happened. OVERSPENDING is what got them fired, and NOTHING, other than fiscal restraint will get them back. I think that they are simply trying to push the ALEC agenda and the result would be that MANY middle class workers would see their pay and benefits cut while they simply would get richer. Who are the "they" people that you mentioned just now? I don't mind people becoming rich through hard work Good, because that's exactly what Romney did....Glad we agree. but when they want to do it by hurting the quality of life of other people then I say that it's wrong. And I agree with you completely. Protecting 40,000 American jobs and 73 American companies is certainly helping the quality of life for those people...wouldn't you agree? .

[jeffmo]

sorry,had to take off for a while!


Romney said of Obama, ***8220;he wants another stimulus, he wants to hire more government workers. He says we need more firemen, more policemen, more teachers. Did he not get the message of Wisconsin? The American people did. It***8217;s time for us to cut back on government and help the American people.***8221;
The intent was to re-hire some that had been laid off.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/06/08/496799/romney-says-america-doesnt-need-more-fireman-more-policemen-more-teachers/

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/12/we-dont-need-no-teachers/

http://open.salon.com/blog/a_patriotic_american/2012/06/14/firemen_policemen_and_teachers

http://www.businessinsider.com/barack-obama-mitt-romney-firefighters-police-teachers

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/06/would-romney-cut-firefighters-campaign-wont-say/

[jeffmo]

the safety forces positions were lost when the economy went south.it wasn't because of poor planning.IF that were the case then we should NEVER add to safety forces because no one will ever have the ability to tell when we are going to have bad times.Over the last 10 years run volumnes have steadily increased but staffing has been reduced.MOST departments i'm aware of now bill for EMS services which means that they are doing more with less.Exactly how much more would you say we should concede to where it comes to our safety?

MAYBE,if we simply eliminated wasteful spending at ALL levels of gov't we wouldn't have had to see safety forces reduced to unsafe levels.
Now,blame it on whoever you'd like to but when jobs left our country for foreign soil THAT'S when our troubles began.I don't care who would have ended up in the whitehouse,turning and economy around that took years to go bad would be like stopping a train on a dime....it'll never happen.
So what's so bad about being a democrat w/ middle of the road views that you feel the need to say "it shows"??

[Destroyer]

So what's so bad about being a democrat w/ middle of the road views that you feel the need to say "it shows"??

At one time, there was absolutely nothing wrong with is. Back in the days or President Kennedy, or President Reagan, being a democrat meant something entirely different than what being a democrat means today. Today, the democratic party has been totally usurped by ultra left wingers that want nothing less than the complete overthrow of the United States and it's fundemental transformation into a Socialist Country, much like the European model that is failing so totally in Europe right now.

(It's funny to see how many Democratic Governors are saying they are not going to the Democratic convention and are saying so publically. They are all scared to death of being associated with the Obamanation)

[jeffmo]

At one time, there was absolutely nothing wrong with is. Back in the days or President Kennedy, or President Reagan, being a democrat meant something entirely different than what being a democrat means today. Today, the democratic party has been totally usurped by ultra left wingers that want nothing less than the complete overthrow of the United States and it's fundemental transformation into a Socialist Country, much like the European model that is failing so totally in Europe right now.

(It's funny to see how many Democratic Governors are saying they are not going to the Democratic convention and are saying so publically. They are all scared to death of being associated with the Obamanation)

Sorry,but I just don't agree w/ that.
The same can be said about the thought process of the Ultra right wingers.Not every Governor agrees with the anti public sector worker bills that have been introduced in different states.Again,simply what I see as the problem,there's not nearly enough middle of the road politics.Too many who want things THEIR way or it's wrong.....supposedly.
I see it from alot of Democrats too so don't think I'm talking just about Republicans.I know people who blindly blame every problem in this country on the Republicans and it amazes me!
IF the elected people in this nation from the local levels to DC don't change and change soon,we're in for some trouble.

[willy]

The problem Jeff, as I see it in this discussion is you are referring to "ultra right wingers". As if the people who are trying to get our nation, our towns and cities back on a common sense fiscal track are ultra right wingers.
I'm sorry, but that is mass media double speak, just as referring and demagoging the average American taxpaying citizen in the Tea Party as "ultra right wingers"
These are offensive terms to me, ultra right wingers are the people known as Facist's Nazi's etc. It is a term the Pelosi's and NYT and the Chicago Tribune used to describe these Americans and they should be ashamed of their actions. Despicable.
So lets get a few things out in the open here. From one Public Sector Union member to another.
When you are paid more, pensioned more, benefited more than the people who are paying the freight for it and it eventually catches up to you there is no room to say that some politician who seeks to reduce the budget and literally State destroying debt it has caused is an ultra right winger.
None whatsoever.
When you have some of the highest taxes in the world on people, and the top ten percent of the earners in this country are paying literally over seventy percent of the freight of this country you have literally no room whatsoever in saying it is not enough, it is unfair, etc.
If you have a politician who will balance the budget, restrict the overbearing nation destroying, people enslaving centralized government and allow Americans to again live free you darn sure better vote for him. If not for yourself, for your brother and sister citizens and for your children.
Because the alternative planned by this monster in office will take this country of ours down the crapper to socialism in a heartbeat.
The unholy alliance between the politicians and the unions in this country, specifically the demo/socialist party has put our nation, our states exactly where you are today. Knowing full well that it was unsustainable. Knowing full well that eventually it would all come tumbling down. But as long as they got theirs it was OK.
I know this to be true and I watched it for thirty years in a public sector union here in NJ. First hand, no ultra right wing nazi point of view just common sense.
It has come to full view do to the big down turn in our economy, where now the people who are paying the freight are suffering huge, and the reality of what that unholy alliance has wrought is in the lime light.
Major changes are being foisted upon all of us, yes the unions public and private are going to take a big shot, how things were done are going to change tremendously.
Many people on the left side of the equation in this country, just as in socialist countries around the world are in big trouble because as Thatcher brilliantly said many years ago, "the problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other peoples money".
Voting for Romney is the only course we have to turn this economy around. You sound like a smart well spoken fellow, and I have no doubt you are, but you need to step back and look at the whole enchilada here. Four more years of an un-constrained socialist in the Whitehouse spell doom for us all. No doubt about it. Can you imagine the results of four more years of what we just had the past three and a half.
Is Romney perfect? H@ll no. Are their better men and women out there? H@ll yea. Did they have the wherewithal to commit to what has to be the greatest challenge in politics, knowing full well that what they will step into in 2013 will be a nation in decline? H@ll no.
Let me ask a simple question of all of us. You have a choice to have either the Obamination or Romney to run your personal finances, make the decisions for your household, plan your retirement and investments.
Who would you choose.
Exactly.
For 300 million Americans now. Who wold you choose to turn this nightmare we are in around.
Exactly.
You see many on the Left paint a picture of a zero sum game and play this off on us Americans.
The U.S economy is not a zero sum game. We just are not growing our economy due to the policies of division and massive government control and regulation.
The economy will grow, the pie we are dividing will grow if we let our free markets be free. Maybe many of the middle class jobs you refer to will be saved, not by stealing more money from fellow Americans but by the pie expanding and people getting back to work.
Think hard when you pull that lever Jeff, being a free man is a terrible thing to give up.

[jeffmo]

The problem Jeff, as I see it in this discussion is you are referring to "ultra right wingers". As if the people who are trying to get our nation, our towns and cities back on a common sense fiscal track are ultra right wingers.
I'm sorry, but that is mass media double speak, just as referring and demagoging the average American taxpaying citizen in the Tea Party as "ultra right wingers"
These are offensive terms to me, ultra right wingers are the people known as Facist's Nazi's etc. It is a term the Pelosi's and NYT and the Chicago Tribune used to describe these Americans and they should be ashamed of their actions. Despicable.
So lets get a few things out in the open here. From one Public Sector Union member to another.
When you are paid more, pensioned more, benefited more than the people who are paying the freight for it and it eventually catches up to you there is no room to say that some politician who seeks to reduce the budget and literally State destroying debt it has caused is an ultra right winger.
None whatsoever.
When you have some of the highest taxes in the world on people, and the top ten percent of the earners in this country are paying literally over seventy percent of the freight of this country you have literally no room whatsoever in saying it is not enough, it is unfair, etc.
If you have a politician who will balance the budget, restrict the overbearing nation destroying, people enslaving centralized government and allow Americans to again live free you darn sure better vote for him. If not for yourself, for your brother and sister citizens and for your children.
Because the alternative planned by this monster in office will take this country of ours down the crapper to socialism in a heartbeat.
The unholy alliance between the politicians and the unions in this country, specifically the demo/socialist party has put our nation, our states exactly where you are today. Knowing full well that it was unsustainable. Knowing full well that eventually it would all come tumbling down. But as long as they got theirs it was OK.
I know this to be true and I watched it for thirty years in a public sector union here in NJ. First hand, no ultra right wing nazi point of view just common sense.
It has come to full view do to the big down turn in our economy, where now the people who are paying the freight are suffering huge, and the reality of what that unholy alliance has wrought is in the lime light.
Major changes are being foisted upon all of us, yes the unions public and private are going to take a big shot, how things were done are going to change tremendously.
Many people on the left side of the equation in this country, just as in socialist countries around the world are in big trouble because as Thatcher brilliantly said many years ago, "the problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other peoples money".
Voting for Romney is the only course we have to turn this economy around. You sound like a smart well spoken fellow, and I have no doubt you are, but you need to step back and look at the whole enchilada here. Four more years of an un-constrained socialist in the Whitehouse spell doom for us all. No doubt about it. Can you imagine the results of four more years of what we just had the past three and a half.
Is Romney perfect? H@ll no. Are their better men and women out there? H@ll yea. Did they have the wherewithal to commit to what has to be the greatest challenge in politics, knowing full well that what they will step into in 2013 will be a nation in decline? H@ll no.
Let me ask a simple question of all of us. You have a choice to have either the Obamination or Romney to run your personal finances, make the decisions for your household, plan your retirement and investments.
Who would you choose.
Exactly.
For 300 million Americans now. Who wold you choose to turn this nightmare we are in around.
Exactly.
You see many on the Left paint a picture of a zero sum game and play this off on us Americans.
The U.S economy is not a zero sum game. We just are not growing our economy due to the policies of division and massive government control and regulation.
The economy will grow, the pie we are dividing will grow if we let our free markets be free. Maybe many of the middle class jobs you refer to will be saved, not by stealing more money from fellow Americans but by the pie expanding and people getting back to work.
Think hard when you pull that lever Jeff, being a free man is a terrible thing to give up.

And exactly in what context does ultra left winger translate to? I did notice that term didn't seem to bring out the same types of disgust.
But,YOUR interpretation of the term left winger(and right winger) and mine apparently do not mean the same thing.I do believe also that I have said that the ULTRA attitudes on both sides are the cause of the problems we're facing.The politicians are simply looking out for themselves and have forgotten about the people of this country.
Now,you say that I am being paid more,benefitting more and pensioned more than people who are "paying the freight for it".well,that just isn't so.here in Ohio Kasich TRIED to further his ALEC bosses agenda and TRIED to make public sector workers out to be the bad guys and the cause of any "supposed" financial problems we were experiencing.The truth was brought to the surface (i've always enjoyed how the truth comes out in the end!) and it was proven that their claims of the public sector salaries being 41% higher than those in the private sector were nothing more than lies.They never continued to argue the facts about it because they couldn't.
I really think that it's important to tell you that here in Ohio,The OAPFF submitted the necessary changes for our pension system to maintain the 30 year solvency stipulation as required by law,to the legislators so the needed changes could be made.The proposals were purposely tabled by the Republicans simply as a means to be able to say that our system was broken so their fight FOR SB5 would be stronger.Again though,their lies came to surface and end the end they loked very untrustworthy.
I think I should also add something that so many people seem to omit when they're speaking about public sector workers.we are taxpayers too! And you'd have to look for a pretty long time to find someone who hates seeing wasted tax dollars more than I do.Just curious but do you see the ALEC,big business/politician alliance with the same unholiness limelight? In my 22 years in the IAFF and more to the point,on the local level,we have never endorsed a candidate.It simply isn't good practice to do that.we believe that whoever wins we will have to work with them and to endorse one could very easily makes working conditions pretty bad if one were to hold a grudge.But take a look at what the IAFF lobbies for and I believe you'll find that our concerns deal with safety issues.But,just to give you an example of how the argument went here in Ohio we heard that the unions put THEIR GUY into office and then we get to sit across the table during negotiations and get "whatever we want" at the expense of the taxpayers(again,which we are also).The same people said that the public sector workers accounted for just 12% of the total workforce here in Ohio.Now,IF their argument held water HOW could 12% of the workforce get "THEIR GUY" voted into office.the truth is that it just doesn't work that way.
For no more than political reasons they tried to paint us as the bad guys and the public just didn't believe what they were saying.when election day rolled around 63% of the voters said NO to the governors anti public sector workers bill proposal.Just recently our Governor announced that the states "rainy day" fund was about $450 million and that when he took office there was $.87 in it.when the truth of the matter surfaced it was found that he had simply transferred the profits from our lottery into HIS rainy day fund.The lottery profits had,since the lottery began,been earmarked for our schools.This happens AFTER he slashed funding to local municipalities.How's that for honest politics? Thsi guy is 100% for forwarding the ALEC agenda!
And anyone who believes that the fires ervice hasn't taken hits during these tough economic times just doesn't know the truth of the matter.Our staffing level is lower today than it was in 1990 and back then we did fire and rescue duties,today we have added EMS services and the run volumnes has increased each and every year due to our aging society.
Personally,I can't imagine more of the politics that have got us to this point.we had many years of a couple of wars(not saying that we shouldn't have went into Iraq either) but,everyone knows that wars not only cost lives,they cost obscene amounts of money.I also understand that expecting this economy to turn around in a couple short years is nothing more than wishful thinking.
Is Obama perfect? in no way! I didn't agree w/ obamacare as a whole.I do believe that we need some sort of system to make healthcare available to people who need it.Like I told destroyer,Had McCain chose a legitimate vp candidate he would have gotten my vote.

What'll it take to turn things around?that's simple,bring back the jobs that went to foreign countries and demand that politicians look out for OUR citizens and THEN we'll see good times again.

[Destroyer]

Like I told destroyer,Had McCain chose a legitimate vp candidate he would have gotten my vote.

What'll it take to turn things around?that's simple,bring back the jobs that went to foreign countries and demand that politicians look out for OUR citizens and THEN we'll see good times again.

McCain chose one of the best, most qualified people as his VP canidate. The media was scared to death of her. So they painted her to look like a boob. THey attacked everything about her, from the way she dressed to what magazines she read. And while Obama said that his kids were off limits and so the media didn't go after them, they had a field day with her children, calling them *****s, saying that her Downs syndrome baby was really her daughters, making up reallynasty, dispicible lies about her and her familly. It was and continues to be disgusting that anyone would fall for that garbage. So lets look at some facts. She is a college grad, married to her high school sweetheart. She didn't like what was happening in her town so she got involved politically and became mayor of her town, then when she didn't like what was happening in her state she ran for and became the Governor of the largest state in the union, where she served admirably until she was called upon to be McCains running mate. And then the Chicago political thug machine pounced because they saw how popular she was. They sent 37 lawyers to Alaska to go over everything in her background to try and find anything that was illegal or anything that could be used to damage and tarnish her in any way possible. They found NOTHING, so they made things up. They attacked her from every side, from late night comics calling her daughter a ***** to Bill Mayer calling her a stupid **** to the media attacking the price of the clothes she wore... ANYTHING that could be used against her, whether true or not, was thrown at her. And the American public at large, you included, drank the cool-aid and thought she was unqualified. So let me ask you Jeff... just what exactly in your eyes made her unqualified for the position? She has more administrative experience than Obama, who had exactly ZERO before he took office. She had more time as an elected official than Obama, who had less than 2 years as a state senator before he was elected, she had more time as a business person than Obama, who only worked as a "community organizer" before he ran for office. So in every way she was far more qualified than Obama... so what in your mind disqualified her? Admit it... you were duped, lied to, by the very political party and their stooge media that you seek to defend. And you still defend them.. My god man...wake up! This isn't about ALEC or whatever it is that you keep coming back to, this is about your very Country being taken over by people that want nothing less than complete control over your very life. How can you be so blind? Lets look at a few facts in my next post.

[Destroyer]

Here's some things to think about... In 1887 Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the university of Lindburg had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic (Greece) some 2000 years before.

"A democracy is always temporary in nature. It simply cannot exist as a permanent form of Governmnet. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the canidate(s) who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse over loose fical policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship"

The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations, from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations have always progressed through the following sequence:

From bondage to spiritual faith
From Spiritual faith to great courage
From great courage to liberty
From liberty to abundance
From abundance to complacency
From complacency to apathy
From apathy to dependance
From dependance back into bondage

Our obituary follows:
Born 1776 Died 2012

Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University of Law in St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts about the last presidential election for you to ponder... it won't hurt if you read them several times... maybe then you'll begin to realize what has happened and is happeing in our country.

"Number of states won by: Obama 19 McCain 29
Square miles of land won by: Obama 580,000 McCain 2,427,000
Population of counties won by Obama 127 Million McCain 143 milllion
Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by Obama 13.2 McCain 5.3"

"In aggregate, the map of the territory McCain won was mostly land owned by the taxpaying citizens of the Country.

Obama territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in low income tenements and living off various forms of government welfare."

Olson believes the Uniter States is now somewhere between the "complacency and apathy" defination phase of Professor Tylers defination of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.

He further believes that if Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million criminal invaders called "illegal immigrants" - and they vote- then we can say goodbye to the USA in fewer than FIVE years!

Now, if you are in favor of this, then by all means ignore this post.

However, if you're not in favor of this happening, then perhaps you should stop worring about what the government is going to do FOR you and start worring about what the government is going to do TO you. Realize just how much is at stake, knowing that apathy is the greatest danger to our freedom. Realize that if you don't vote or if you vote for Obama, YOU are helping drive the nails into our Country's coffin.

[jeffmo]

McCain chose one of the best, most qualified people as his VP canidate. The media was scared to death of her. So they painted her to look like a boob. THey attacked everything about her, from the way she dressed to what magazines she read. And while Obama said that his kids were off limits and so the media didn't go after them, they had a field day with her children, calling them *****s, saying that her Downs syndrome baby was really her daughters, making up reallynasty, dispicible lies about her and her familly. It was and continues to be disgusting that anyone would fall for that garbage. So lets look at some facts. She is a college grad, married to her high school sweetheart. She didn't like what was happening in her town so she got involved politically and became mayor of her town, then when she didn't like what was happening in her state she ran for and became the Governor of the largest state in the union, where she served admirably until she was called upon to be McCains running mate. And then the Chicago political thug machine pounced because they saw how popular she was. They sent 37 lawyers to Alaska to go over everything in her background to try and find anything that was illegal or anything that could be used to damage and tarnish her in any way possible. They found NOTHING, so they made things up. They attacked her from every side, from late night comics calling her daughter a ***** to Bill Mayer calling her a stupid **** to the media attacking the price of the clothes she wore... ANYTHING that could be used against her, whether true or not, was thrown at her. And the American public at large, you included, drank the cool-aid and thought she was unqualified. So let me ask you Jeff... just what exactly in your eyes made her unqualified for the position? She has more administrative experience than Obama, who had exactly ZERO before he took office. She had more time as an elected official than Obama, who had less than 2 years as a state senator before he was elected, she had more time as a business person than Obama, who only worked as a "community organizer" before he ran for office. So in every way she was far more qualified than Obama... so what in your mind disqualified her? Admit it... you were duped, lied to, by the very political party and their stooge media that you seek to defend. And you still defend them.. My god man...wake up! This isn't about ALEC or whatever it is that you keep coming back to, this is about your very Country being taken over by people that want nothing less than complete control over your very life. How can you be so blind? Lets look at a few facts in my next post.

Honestly???
All it took for alot of people was listening to her try to answers questions posed to her by Katie Couric(I know,the teapartiers believe it was all the fault of a liberal reporter!).Hell,she couldn't simply name one single newspaper that she read on a regular basis.For me she always seemed to stumble over nearly every question that she was asked,couldn't gets facts straight and avoided answering direct questions.The fact is that SHE cost the republicans the Whitehouse and MOST republicans agree to that.
What the media did to her and her family was wrong.But,that's not something that happens exclusively to Republicans and you know that.
I don't believe that she's a bad person by any stretch of the imagination at all but she has no business in politics on the national level.
And yes,alot of what I dislike does come back to ALEC because of that organizations agenda.And it makes absolutely no sense to say that it doesn't come back to ALEC if you don't know what ALEC is all about.One of their strategies is to eliminate all public sector unions.The reason? to eliminate their competion.look it up!
But,that's just my opinion.

[Destroyer]

Honestly???
All it took for alot of people was listening to her try to answers questions posed to her by Katie Couric(I know,the teapartiers believe it was all the fault of a liberal reporter!).Hell,she couldn't simply name one single newspaper that she read on a regular basis.For me she always seemed to stumble over nearly every question that she was asked,couldn't gets facts straight and avoided answering direct questions.The fact is that SHE cost the republicans the Whitehouse and MOST republicans agree to that.
What the media did to her and her family was wrong.But,that's not something that happens exclusively to Republicans and you know that.
I don't believe that she's a bad person by any stretch of the imagination at all but she has no business in politics on the national level.
And yes,alot of what I dislike does come back to ALEC because of that organizations agenda.And it makes absolutely no sense to say that it doesn't come back to ALEC if you don't know what ALEC is all about.One of their strategies is to eliminate all public sector unions.The reason? to eliminate their competion.look it up!
But,that's just my opinion.

Like I said, you were lied to and you drank the kool-ade, like a lot of other people. You just admitted it. You were told to dislike her because she couldn't name what MAGAZINE (not newspaper) she read on a regular basis. You probably never listened to her explaination for what she said in that interview, or why. You don't know that those "interviews" are completely scripted beforehand, by both parties (Dem and Republicans alike)... so that no one gets asked a question that they might make them look bad. You never knew that Couric was lying in wait to ambush Palin. You never knew that Katie went totally off the agreed to beforehand script. You didn't know how mad Ms. Palin was at the questions about her children that Katie asked just before the question about what she read. You don't know that she almost stopped the interview right then. Yes, she became flustered... SO WHAT???? My God man... do you really think that because she didn't answer what magazine she read that disqualified her to run? How stupid is that? How stupid is it for anyone to believe something like that.. How stupid is it to believe that a college graduate with a degree in journalism, a Mayor, a Governor doesn't know what she reads??? How stupid can people get? It had absolutely NOTHING to do with her abilities to lead... but the media told you it did so you swallowed the kool-ade and believed them ...because you were told to by the media...

And as to your comment about her not having business in politics on the national level I would submit to you that she is FAR more qualified to have business at the national level than the present inhabitant of the White house.

You said What the media did to her and her family was wrong.But,that's not something that happens exclusively to Republicans and you know that.
Oh really? Tell me of one, just one attack that the media did against Obama and his family. Either then or now. Please, open your eyes.

As nice people we would all like to think that the attacks are just about equal, but in reality it's simply not so. The media is so overwhelmingly leftist that it's almost impossible to hear anything except what they want you to hear, what they want you to think. We're being brainwashed. If you repeat a lie often enough pretty soon everyone will start to believe it. And that's exactly what they are doing. Like Palin not being articulate, even though she graduated with a journalism degree, or Bush being dumb, even though he has two degrees, one from Yale (BA) and one from Harvard (MBA).

As to the rest of it, no, most Republicans do NOT think that she lost the White House .. The REAL fact is most Repubilcans think that John McCain lost the White house, due to the pathetic, inept campaign he ran. He never answered any attacks by Obama, he wouldn't allow anyone on his team (including Palin) to attack Obama or Obama's past, He was Mr Nice Guy, Mr. Casper Milktoast, and it cost him the election because of it.. he wanted to be liked by both sides,....and in the end the other side used him and his own side hated him... so what did it get him?? NOTHING!!

Last thought. The national elections have absolutely nothing to do with ALEC or any other organization, so forget that crap for now. The national elections have to do with who is going to run our country and in what direction they are going to lead it. The choice is simple and clear cut... Are we going to become a socialist country and then somewhere in the near future lose all our freedoms and slip into a dictatorship, or are we going to become a free republic again? That, in a nutshell, is what this election will decide. Your choice.

[jeffmo]

trying to put words in mymouth or twist what I say won't work with me because I'll straighten it out.
1st,I wasn't lied to by anyone.I wasn't or haven't been told what to believe other than by people trying to push their conservative views onto me by saying that I'm "stupid" or have drank the "kool-aid".I'm yet to try to tell you that you (or anyone else for that matter) is wrong wbout their views.I've simply explained my position.Where Palin was concerned my opinion of her was very open at first.remember,I was seriously considering voting for McCain.Palin had alot of credentials and had held office.But that doesn't equate into being a GOOD politician either.Cantor just proved that by writing the loophole into the trading information bill.My opinion of her was formed by listening to her when she spoke,not by what any media source said.you see,in my opinion,THAT is a huge part of the problem we now have,people believing what either Fox news or MSNBC tells them concerning politics.I'm 53 years old and certainly have the ability and edication to be able to form my own opinion.Those abilities are why I voted for George Bush.I read their stances on the issues and made my mind up.Her ability to handle pressure was VERY lacking.IF Palin was "ambushed" as you say she was,then she should have either stopped the interview or handled it and utrned it around on Couric.Something a person with good skills would have been able to do.Maybe some people simply weren't smart enough to have seen that lack of ability in her.There's alot of college graqduates who aren't the brightest people around.Having a degree doesn't equate to common sense or having the ability to handle pressure.
my statement said "But,that's not something that happens exclusively to Republicans".You said "Tell me of one, just one attack that the media did against Obama and his family".You see,twisting of what I said.But,i'll say that all you have to do is turn of Fox news and you'll soon see the attacks.And like I've said,turn on MSNBC and you'll see the other side of that coin also.
You see,I haven't voted straight party lines.I research candidates from who is running for my township trustees to who wants to occupy the Whitehouse.Do you do the same?

AlEC has ALOT to do with this national election and to say otherwise simply means you haven't taken the time to look at that organization.their assault on public sector labor and the fact that so many Republican Governors have attempted to put that strategy into motion has caused so many people to get involved in the election and to learn the facts of what is happening.
Since you continue to say that ALEC has nothing to do with this election,could you tell me what their strategy is and who some of their highest ranking members are?

[jeffmo]

Did the media force Sarah Palin to say these things?
You see,it goes with what I said.Simply having this experience: "a college graduate with a degree in journalism, a Mayor, a Governor" certainly doesn't mean she's got what it takes common sense wise to do the job.Her statements,not what any media source presented,made my mind up about her.Just my honest opinion but her own statements are what made voters simply say no to her.
Here's some of them:


"But obviously, we've got to stand with our North Korean allies. We're bound to by treaty,"
***12288;
When asked about how as President she would avoid investigations similar to the one compelling her resignation as Governor of Alaska she responded, "I think on a national level your Department of Law there in the White House would look at some of the things that we've been charged with and automatically throw them out."

Three days after a mostly gaffe-free debate performance, the Alaska governor fumbled during a speech in which she praised U.S. soldiers for "fighting terrorism and protecting us and our democratic values".
"They are also building schools for the Afghan children so that there is hope and opportunity in our neighboring country of Afghanistan," she told several hundred supporters at a fundraising event in San Francisco.
During her 2011 "bus tour" across America, Palin stopped in the city of Boston, where she took in some of the local historical sites. Included in the tour was a stop at Paul Revere's shack. While there, Sarah explained to local TV cameras the significance of Revere's famous 1775 "midnight ride," undertaken just before the battles at Lexington and Concord. Unfortunately...she sort of got the entire thing backwards.

According to Palin, Revere rode on horseback and "warned, uh, the British that they weren't going to be taking away our arms, uh, by ringing those bells..."
Her Sputnik moment:

Palin, in a discussion with Greta van Susteren on Fox News the following night, took issue with the President's reference to the infamous Soviet satellite that became the first manmade object launched into orbit back in 1957. Calling it a "WTF moment," She argued that Obama "needs to remember that what happened back then with the former communist USSR and their victory in that race to space, yes, they won, but they also incurred so much debt at the time that it resulted in the inevitable collapse of the Soviet Union."
***12288;
In May of 2010, Palin appeared on Fox News' "The O'Reilly Factor" to talk about the controversy over the "National Day of Prayer." During the discussion, she boldly announced that the US should base its laws on The Bible, just as the Founding Fathers intended. The full quote:
"I think we should keep this clean, keep it simple, go back to what our founders and our founding documents meant. They’re quite clear that we would create law based on the God of the Bible and the 10 commandments, it’s pretty simple."

While running for the governorship of Alaska back in 2006, Palin - along with all the other candidates - was asked to fill out a questionnaire about some of her basic political beliefs. One of the questions asked if she was offended by the use of the phrase "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance.
Palin responded: "Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance."
But, of course, the Pledge wasn't "good enough" for the Founding Fathers. It was not written until 100 years AFTER the Revolutionary era, in 1892, by a man named Francis Bellamy.
Making this slip-up even more ridiculous, the phrase "Under God" wasn't part of Bellamy's original work, and was inserted into the Pledge in 1954!
In a Facebook post in support of New Hampshire Senate hopeful Kelly Ayotte in July of 2010, Sarah Palin remarked that she and her family were getting ready for a trip to Alaska's Kodiak Island. She wrote:
"As we work and sightsee on America's largest island, we'll get to view more majestic bears, so now is a good time to draw attention to the political equivalent of the species."

Kodiak Island, while quite large, does not actually win the title of America's Largest Island. That honor goes to Hawaii, which is about 500 square miles larger.
During a speech at a Right to Life fundraising banquet in Wisconsin in November of 2009, Sarah Palin discussed the redesign of US coins. Specifically, she took issue with the decision to move the phrase "In God We Trust" to the very edge of the coins.
"Who calls a shot like that?," she asked. "Who makes a decision like that? It's a disturbing trend."
The implication was clear - Democrats and the Obama Administration were to blame for the decision, part of a recent "trend" de-emphasizing the importance of God in America. The argument echoed a common conspiratorial e-mail that had been circulated among conservatives for years.
It turns out, the new coins with the moved slogan were not the work of fiendish anti-God Democrats, but were commissioned by Congress back in 2005...when it was controlled by Republicans. Also, President George W. Bush had signed off on the redesign.
***12288;
During a 2008 campaign stop in Laconia, New Hampshire, Palin elicited some boos and jeers from the crowd when she referred to the Granite State as part of America's "Great Northwest".
Palin had her first significant sit-down interview after accepting the VP nomination with ABC News on September 11th, 2008. During the interview, she was asked about meeting foreign heads of state. Palin responded that she was just one of many who had never met a foreign head of state before running on the presidential ticket:

"I have not, and I think if you go back in history and if you ask that question of many vice presidents, they may have the same answer that I just gave you."

It turns out, this is not just false, but spectacularly so. In the last 32 years, EVERY vice president had met with a foreign head of state before taking office. Every one. In fact, since WWII, the only VP likely to share Palin's lack of familiarity with meeting heads of state was Spiro Agnew. And we all know how well HIS tenure as VP worked out. Well, maybe Sarah Palin doesn't. (Sarah, he resigned from office after pleading no contest to not reporting 1967 income to the IRS!)

[Kracker Jack]

atleast she had proof of citizenship some dont even need that:head:

[jeffmo]

atleast she had proof of citizenship some dont even need that:head:

Don't you think that IF there was proof that the President WASN'T a legal citizen the Republican party would have presented it by now?
That tired old argument is beyond laughable now.It wouldn't make a difference to some If God himself presented a legal birth certificate,some would still call it a fraud.They're the same ones who believe the photoshopped pics of him w/ his left hand on right chest during the pledge of allegence,The re-painted air force one,that he has not observed veterans day yet,that his religion is muslim,that he has taken more vacation days than any other President in history,etc.,etc.,etc.,........................... .............

You guys fight it out, and vote for whoever you think will do the best job.When it's over and done the winner will be decided by the people.Either way that goes,I'll live with the decision.

[Destroyer]

About your post about some of Ms Palin's alledged gaffs

I'm debating with myself as to whether or not to even answer that drivel about Ms. Palin. I mean, it's obvious that you copied/pasted it from some website..The writing style is spectaculary not yours. Some of the 'points" made are legitimate, others are just simply laughable, but in all cases are consistant with the far lefts desperate effort to make Ms Pailn look bad. Tell you what...let me think about it for a while and see if it even warrants a reply.

(And while I think about it, you should think about this.. Everyone makes gaffs...that doesn't make them less qualified to do thier job, or more qualified... it simply makes them human. President O in a national speach while reading from his teleprompter refered to some brave Navy Corpsmen. Except I guess no one told him that even though it's spelled corpsman, it's pronounced coreman. (He made that gaff twice in the same speach). In another speach he refered to the fact that he was going to campaign in all 57 states...and of course there are only 50 states in the US... (but there ARE 57 Islamic states) In an interview during the last presidential campaign, Obama mentioned to the interviewer that John McCain had not made any references to his muslem faith. (The interviewer had to correct him and remind him that he was Christian., whereupon he (Obama) corrected himself. Vice president Biden, in a speach recognised some person in the crowd and asked him to stand up and take a bow..oops... turns out the guy was sitting in a wheelchair. (It would be impossible to list here all the gaffs that Biden has made...he's legendary in Washington for making them....but the wheelchair one has always been one of my favoriites so I included it here). My point is that none of the examples I just made, nor any of the ones that you copied and pasted about Palin, disqualify any of these people from running or holding public office. They are simply gaffs..mispeaks said in the heat of the moment and have absolutely nothing do do with a persons qualifications or abilities. Judge a person by what they believe in, not by mistakes they make. The ONLY person in the world that never made a mistake was crucified on a cross about 2000 years ago. The rest of us are only human

[Destroyer]

Don't you think that IF there was proof that the President WASN'T a legal citizen the Republican party would have presented it by now? No, because although there are tons of questions, since all the records are sealed there is no proof. The same as the fact that there is no proof that he IS a legal citizen.
That tired old argument is beyond laughable now.It wouldn't make a difference to some If God himself presented a legal birth certificate,some would still call it a fraud. Naaa...if God presented a legal birth certificate it would say he was born in Kenya and I'd believe him. (God's not allowed to lie)
They're the same ones who believe the photoshopped pics of him w/ his left hand on right chest during the pledge of allegence, Don't know about that one... maybe the one of his right hand over his heart was the photoshopped one? I'm not a photoshop expert.....are you?
The re-painted air force one, I hadn't heard about that one... care to enumerate?
That he has not observed veterans day yet. Not familiar with that one.
that his religion is muslim, The jury is still out on that one... I know he says he's Christian, but he was raised Muslem, and Muslems are taught to lie about their religion if it helps further it.. So who do you believe...him or the Koran?
That he has taken more vacation days than any other President in history, Sorry, that one's true More vacation days and more golf days in his first 3 years than any other president...He even beat Eisenhower on the golf...and Eisenhower was famous for golfing.

[jeffmo]

yes,I did find those quotes from her through a variety of sources.they are ALL OVER the internet and were found from many sources.
You said that Palin had been unfairly targeted by the liberal press.I've simply shown how she gave the press fuel for the fire through many of her own statements that weren't on track with accuracy.
Last week the President made a similar gaffe about business.people know that he meant that w/out infrastructure businesses might not have been able to make it.But,many have taken it and ran with it trying to make it appear as if he meant that business people didn't have a thing to do with them building thier businesses up.It is a part of the problem with the press today and it affects people from both partys.


I believe that the birth certificate was presented but like I've said,people will continue to say it's fake.

Several sources concerning the number of vacation days the President has taken in comparison to other Presidents.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-18563_162-20093801.html

http://news.yahoo.com/comparison-recent-presidential-vacation-time-160400657.html


http://www.capecodtoday.com/blogs/index.php/2011/07/22/presidential-vacation-time?blog=233


http://www.factcheck.org/2010/01/president-obamas-vacation-days/

***12288;

The story about Air Force one
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/airplane.asp


The story about the President missing Memorial Day
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/memorialday.asp



Some rumors about the President being A radical Muslim or radical Muslim debunked.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

So saying that there is no media bias against the President isn't true.It amazes me in this day of so many false rumors/stories on the internet that there are people who fail to take the time to look into the validity of those stories before believeing them as factual.It certainly makes learning about a political candidate that much more difficult.

[Destroyer]

trying to put words in mymouth or twist what I say won't work with me because I'll straighten it out.
1st,I wasn't lied to by anyone.I wasn't or haven't been told what to believe other than by people trying to push their conservative views onto me by saying that I'm "stupid" or have drank the "kool-aid".I'm yet to try to tell you that you (or anyone else for that matter) is wrong wbout their views.I've simply explained my position.Where Palin was concerned my opinion of her was very open at first.remember,I was seriously considering voting for McCain.Palin had alot of credentials and had held office.But that doesn't equate into being a GOOD politician either.Cantor just proved that by writing the loophole into the trading information bill.My opinion of her was formed by listening to her when she spoke,not by what any media source said.you see,in my opinion,THAT is a huge part of the problem we now have,people believing what either Fox news or MSNBC tells them concerning politics.I'm 53 years old and certainly have the ability and edication to be able to form my own opinion.Those abilities are why I voted for George Bush.I read their stances on the issues and made my mind up.Her ability to handle pressure was VERY lacking.IF Palin was "ambushed" as you say she was,then she should have either stopped the interview or handled it and utrned it around on Couric.Something a person with good skills would have been able to do.Maybe some people simply weren't smart enough to have seen that lack of ability in her.There's alot of college graqduates who aren't the brightest people around.Having a degree doesn't equate to common sense or having the ability to handle pressure.
my statement said "But,that's not something that happens exclusively to Republicans".You said "Tell me of one, just one attack that the media did against Obama and his family".You see,twisting of what I said.But,i'll say that all you have to do is turn of Fox news and you'll soon see the attacks.And like I've said,turn on MSNBC and you'll see the other side of that coin also.
You see,I haven't voted straight party lines.I research candidates from who is running for my township trustees to who wants to occupy the Whitehouse.Do you do the same?

AlEC has ALOT to do with this national election and to say otherwise simply means you haven't taken the time to look at that organization.their assault on public sector labor and the fact that so many Republican Governors have attempted to put that strategy into motion has caused so many people to get involved in the election and to learn the facts of what is happening.
Since you continue to say that ALEC has nothing to do with this election,could you tell me what their strategy is and who some of their highest ranking members are?

Well, I'm still waiting for you to straighten it out, because you sure didn't with this post. No one is trying to put words in your mouth or twist your words. If anything I'm simply pointing out the inconsistancies. You say you haven't been lied to by anyone, which shows how uninformed you really are, because the mainstream media either lies or spins the truth to you EVERY day. Nor have I ever said you were stuipd. I've been very careful to always use the plural tense anytime I used the word. I have said that you've drunk the Kool-Ade several times, since that phrase simply means that you've believed lies and half-truths that someone else has put out there for you to believe. And I stand by that since it's obvious in your writings that you do believe them, even after you've been given proof they were lies.
I completely agree with you btw about news shows telling us their opinions. It's wrong and they shouldn't do it. There is a huge difference between reporting the news and spinning the news.
You're 53...I'm 68 Got you by 15 years more experience. :p
And yes, you should be able to form your own opinion. Problem is that when people are only given one side of a story the opinion they form is usually shaded towards that side.. and that's what I've been trying to point out to you..... that you've been lied to.

Couric admitted that she ambushed Palin several days later...that she was trying to get her to make a mistake. Palin said the following day in an interview that she was mad and wasn't going to answer the question about the magazine at all, and then realized the camers were rolling and just blurted out an answer without thinking. It was unfortunate, because it was exactly what the media was looking for and it became front page news....to this very day. It had absolutely nothing to do with her qualifications or her abilities, and yet it hurt her baddly. I mean, really, if you think about it...does it REALLY matter what magazine or paper she does or doesn't read?
We were talking about the media's attacks on Palin and her family during the presidential campaigning. Then you said "But,that's not something that happens exclusively to Republicans". And in that context, about the presidential election campaign, I said "Tell me of one, just one attack that the media did against Obama and his family". There was no twisting of your words.. I was simply trying to point out to you that with the lone exception of Fox, the media is overwhelmingly against Republicans and for the Democrats... to the point that they lie and make up things, just to shape bad opinions against whoever it is they are out to ruin. There was NO vetting of Obama during the campaign, NO digging into his past, NOTHING that could possibly harm him by the media. Against McCain and Palin however, the attacks were relentless...You yourself admitted that what they did to Palin and her family was wrong.
You said that you research candidates and asked me if I did the same. Of course I do, why the heck do you think that I've been spending so much time on these posts? Scheeeech!!
And no, I'm not going to be baited into some useless discussion about ALEx and what their mission is or isn't or who their top people are or aren't. If you would refer to some of our previous discussions about ALEC you'll see that we've had that discussion before (but not the part about who their leaders are, which is totally irrelevant) I sorry, but I don't agree with a lot of your thoughts about Public Unions. I think they are wrong. I think that anyone that works for the government should not be allowed to join a union. It's wrong for a group of people to be able to hold the public hostage with strikes or the threat of them, simply because they want something more. Understand I'm not saying that public employees aren't worth more pay, nor am I saying that i don't understand the situation. I just think the union part is wrong. (And don't forget that my own wife works for the government and I think it's wrong for her to be in a union also, even thought I see how they get stepped on). I truly don't know what the answer is, I just think it's wrong for ANY group to be able to hold the public hostage. Maybe some kind of lifetime contract is the answer, hell I don't know. I just know we cannot afford the largess that we've been doing for so long.

[jeffmo]

Here's why I thought my words were being twisted around :
"Like I said, you were lied to and you drank the kool-ade, like a lot of other people. You just admitted it."
I don't feel as if I was lied to.People may TRY to lie to whoever they want to but it's still an individuals choce as to what they believe.
The "alleged" gaffes by Palin aren't really alleged.she said those things and in the end they really didin't matter.But to me they showed that she either doesn't handle pressure well or that a college education doesn't automatically equal being smart.But what those statements did,in my instance, were to convince me that she wasn't a very good choice for VP.
I understand that 15 more years of life experience is invaluble.I have an older brother who's in his mid 60's(also a Nam vet who was w/ the Marines,Gold Co. from '69-'70) who believes that our President is doing a pretty good job considering what he was handed.I wish I could convince some of our young firefighters that not everything is learned from a book.I have almost 23 years on the job and as a union member.I realize that there are alot of people who have also "drank the kool-aid" presented by media sources like Fox news and some politicians that Public sector unions are the reason for the economic problems that some Governors are saying that we're experiencing.Here in Ohio it was proven to be a lie.Our governor said that passing his bill was essential to be able to balance his budget.well,his bill failed and he still balanced his budget.As time passes more and more of his lies are coming to light.Recently he announced that his "rainy day" fund had something like $450 million in it and that when he took office there was $.87. When the truth came out it was found that he had taken the profit money from our lottery which is earmarked to go to our schools just to put it in HIS fund.The voters agreed to the lottery only because the profits were supposed to fund the schools.
On ALEC,our governor has been a member of that organization since the Nixon years.MANY of our nations newly elected Governors are members of ALEC.Many of them introduced virtually the same types of anti-public sector union bills all at the same time.It wasn't simply a coincidence.It was,and it's easy to research,simply a part of ALEC and it's agenda.They also have implemented "jobs" programs in many of these same states too.Here in Ohio the JOBSOHIO program will have it's day in court because the Governor appointed an out of state person to head it up and is using tax dollars to fund it and that is against our states constitution.Indianas same program has been proven to be a fraud and is also probably headed to court.These same Governors are also pushing for "Right To Work" legislation in their states.Basically it's a law to further weaken unions and the actual result is that workers on the average make 6.5% less on wages.
This link shows their members,both individuals and businesses.MANY businesses have dropped out of the organization in recent months because they did not want to be associated with ALEC because of some of their actions in various states where politics are concerned.
The 2nd link is the ALEC site.I thought I'd include both to show both sides of the coin.
But there is no denying that this organization is the face of the Republic strategy for the next election.

http://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_Exposed

http://www.alec.org/


"I think they are wrong. I think that anyone that works for the government should not be allowed to join a union. It's wrong for a group of people to be able to hold the public hostage with strikes or the threat of them, simply because they want something more."

That statement isn't factual where safety forces are concerned.In Ohio and many other states,safety forces cannot strike.Some people even beileve that we have the ability to determine our staffing levels.not true! many depts. have been operating at severely reduced staffing levels for many years now due to the economy.The Governors proposal here in Ohiowent as far as to eliminate our ability to bargain for safety equipment.Can you honestly imagine the outcome of politicians being allowed to say what we should have where safety equipment is concerned?

[lathehand]

First I want to apoligize for starting this sheeeeet storm.I just thought it was a worthwile post.Second it's just my opinon no need to excpand on it . We need to stop voeting in the incombent on every level of goverment form the local dog catcher to the president no matter how good there ideas are.That way no ones BS policies can cause to much damage.

[jeffmo]

First I want to apoligize for starting this sheeeeet storm.I just thought it was a worthwile post.Second it's just my opinon no need to excpand on it . We need to stop voeting in the incombent on every level of goverment form the local dog catcher to the president no matter how good there ideas are.That way no ones BS policies can cause to much damage.

no need to apologize.Having a discussion that remains on an adult level is rare these days and that's how this one has been in my opinion.
Any of the people I talk with would always be more than welcome on my boat and day if they ever make it to Lake Erie!

[spareparts]

First I want to apoligize for starting this sheeeeet storm.I just thought it was a worthwile post.Second it's just my opinon no need to excpand on it . We need to stop voeting in the incombent on every level of goverment form the local dog catcher to the president no matter how good there ideas are.That way no ones BS policies can cause to much damage.

People forget about the local level way too often. Charleston County has had more shady deals, under the table payoffs and plain miss use of public funds that have been swept under the rug that I can count. The county school board was up until recently an ongoing soap opera of who could spend the most money before it was spent on the kids or education. Several board members took a recruitment trip to Europe to find teachers to bring back to Charleston, they didn't find any, and until it hit the news that they were requesting credit cards in their name so they wouldn't have to use their own money for the next Europe vacation they wold have gotten away with another trip. We had a builder in Mt Pleasant make a commit about their mayor that basically said, he bought the mayors vote on his construction projects by making a campaign contribution and couldn't understand why the mayor didn't approve his latest project, just because the constituents didn't want it. I could go on and on on with more examples. Any of these people could have wound up in jail for some for the things they do, but most are appointments, not electable s, but they were put in place by electable s. They've all got contacts and connections that keep them in another playing field. I honestly don't think there is a person in public office or position that isn't playing some else s deal. Once they get in the game, they keep playing it till we(the tax payer) run out of money

[Destroyer]

First I want to apoligize for starting this sheeeeet storm.I just thought it was a worthwile post.Second it's just my opinon no need to excpand on it . We need to stop voeting in the incombent on every level of goverment form the local dog catcher to the president no matter how good there ideas are.That way no ones BS policies can cause to much damage.

The way we learn is through dialog and discussion. No need to apologise Lathehand. Instead you should be taking bows. :clap:

But if we just vote in new people all the time, they'll catch on to it and stack the field with the people they want...clones all. No, I think the proper solution would be to vote in people that are qualified to do the job, not because of their political party affilations, but because they have proven they are qualified. :head:

[Destroyer]

People forget about the local level way too often. Charleston County has had more shady deals, under the table payoffs and plain miss use of public funds that have been swept under the rug that I can count. The county school board was up until recently an ongoing soap opera of who could spend the most money before it was spent on the kids or education. Several board members took a recruitment trip to Europe to find teachers to bring back to Charleston, they didn't find any, and until it hit the news that they were requesting credit cards in their name so they wouldn't have to use their own money for the next Europe vacation they wold have gotten away with another trip. We had a builder in Mt Pleasant make a commit about their mayor that basically said, he bought the mayors vote on his construction projects by making a campaign contribution and couldn't understand why the mayor didn't approve his latest project, just because the constituents didn't want it. I could go on and on on with more examples. Any of these people could have wound up in jail for some for the things they do, but most are appointments, not electable s, but they were put in place by electable s. They've all got contacts and connections that keep them in another playing field. I honestly don't think there is a person in public office or position that isn't playing some else s deal. Once they get in the game, they keep playing it till we(the tax payer) run out of money

In New Jersey once a year the NJ League of Municipalities holds a "conference" (insert the word party) in Atlantic City for elected officials from EVERY town in New Jersey on how to better run local government, but in reality it's a 4 day party at taxpayer's expense. All the food, lodging, transportation, etc.is paid by the taxpayers. Most people don't even know it's happening. This will be the 97th year it's been held. :cen: And of course lets not forget about Pay to Play in NJ where if you don't make a contribution to your elected officials you don't have a chance in hell of being a successful bidder on any state contract. And they're so brazen about it they don't even deny it happens anymore. I see red every time I hear about this bullsh!t.:bat: