225 Optimax opinions

[jasoncooperpcola]

I found a pair of 225 Optimax engines locally for sale for $3500 each. I only need one for the V but need some thoughts on how the Optis perform. I know it is heavy at 497lbs. I know they are DFI. But talking with the marine mech instructor today at school he said they are prone to predetonation. Is this a problem with them? They are 2002 models hours unknown. The dealer will back them with a thirty day warranty which is useless because my v is too far apart to run it. Any advice is appreciated.

[THEFERMANATOR]

I would go with an 04 or newer if it was me. Up to early 03 they still had quite a few problems with the OPTI's.

[spareparts]

I see a bunch of those motors running around here, Biggest key to keeping them alive is good gas, the good DFI oil($$$), and running ring free or carbon guard in each tank of fuel. Those motors are heavy, but they are fairly fuel efficient. Biggest draw back to the opti's are the stuff on the outside of the block(compressor, fuel pumps, injectors, sensors, etc) can cost more to replace than the power head itself. Look real hard at the pivot shafts and steering arms on those motors, for that price, they probably came off of a kingfish boat with a couple thousand hours on them

[RidgeRunner]

I had a 2001 -225 Opti and currently run a 2003 -250 Opti. Neither have high hours,(600 to 700) the 225 was near trouble free, a harness replacement under warranty, a poppet valve after warranty and plugs for good measure at 500 hours. Always ran ring free and tried to keep non-ethanol in the tank.
The 250 is new to me, but the history has it as trouble free thru the warranty and a denied claim for a compressor replacement sometime shortly after the warranty ran out. As an XS motor it requires 91 octane or better, I mostly run 93 octane with 10% ethanol.
The compressor seems to be the weak link IMO but I have no personal experience there. I have heard of some coil issues from other owners.
X2 what Ferm said, The later ones are better. With the early ones you either got a good one or you didn't. Early on Merc was replacing lots of powerheads with less than 50 hours, if the Merc owners knew then what they know now, there would have been some litigation over the frequency of the compressor failures. Merc claims the Compressor has been redesigned.
The go-fasts are starting to warm up to the Direct Injected Mercs. Dave Bush has a Level 1 kit that hops up the 300xs Mercs. They are making reliable power at 15 to 20% over stated hp. The internals seem to be stout and they have thousands of hours of testing time running them hard on the dyno. The tuners seem impressed with what Merc engineers have come up with. (meaning they had to do some serious homework and testing to better what the factory came up with.)
I wouldn't shy away from one so long as it checks out. They are heavier than advertised by a touch. It would be hp a plenty for a V20 they are snappy and fuel efficient. Talk the dealer into 30 days from initial water test on the warranty. That would be the only fair way to ensure you got what you paid for.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Thanks for the replies everybody. Couple more questions. Is there any way to find out the hours? What controls do i need, digital or mechanical? And what about the oil injection system? Should i plan on removing it? Right now i am awaiting an answer on a loan from my credit union. I planned to purchase an outboard next tax season after rebuilding the V. If i get the loan it may throw a wrench into my rebuild plans and money. All depends on the payment.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Thanks for the replies everybody. Couple more questions. Is there any way to find out the hours? What controls do i need, digital or mechanical? And what about the oil injection system? Should i plan on removing it? Right now i am awaiting an answer on a loan from my credit union. I planned to purchase an outboard next tax season after rebuilding the V. If i get the loan it may throw a wrench into my rebuild plans and money. All depends on the payment.

You CANNOT remove the oil injection from a DFI engine. DFI engines inject the fuel directly into the combustion chamber, so NO fuel goes through the crankcase, only air and oil that is injected. Most newer DFI's inject the oil directly into the main bearings now to furthur reduce oil consumption, and with no fuel going through the internals of teh engine to wash the oil off they use even less oil. DFI's though are VERY picky about what oil you use, and should only use an ashless 2 stroke oil with carbon removing additives which means you need to run a DFI oil(conventional 2 strokes do not have the carbon build-up problems as the fuel going through the engine prevents it. OPTI's though also use the oil to lubricate the air compressor, so cheap oil will not only carbon up the engine, but will trash the compressor with it. MANY DFI engine failures are DIRECTLY a result of using cheap oil in them. OPTI's are not bad engines, aand neither are the FICHT's, but early ones did have growing pain issues as it was such a new technology. As for how to tell the hours, a MERC dealer can hook it up to the scanner and tell you as the ECM keeps track of how many hours and at what RPM's.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Thanks Ferm. I looked up the Merc Opti/DFI oil and found it for $26a gallon. Not too bad. Although amazon wanted $66 per gallon, had me scared for a minute. What about the controls? Are these digital or mechanical? I hope to do like Ridge said, and try to get my warranty after i mount the outboard. Then i will run the piss out of it. As you can tell i do not know alot about dfi. I have only owned carbed motors. So bear with me.

[THEFERMANATOR]

I believe most of the OPTI's can be used with the regular MERC cables and wiring harness's like the older carbed engines used. They also have hook-ups though for the smartcraft if you want to use the SMARTCRAFT guages and controls as well.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Looking at gauges already and i like the Mercury Flagship gauges. Smartcraft gauges are nice but dam that sounds expensive. Should know tomorrow about my loan. Is there any way to identify if a compressor has been replaced? I will be able to look at the engines next week, I may put a deposit on one and take it to a MarineMax and let them look it over and check hours, compression, etc.

I talked with some of the guys at marine mech at school today and i am beginning to think they are biased against MERC. So i decided to stop listening to them. :fight: Especially when they mentioned "pOptimax" :you: Before i knew it i was hearing bs about getting an OX66 or a suzuki. (i just bought a suzuki car and not impressed with it and its check engine light that wont stay off, so yeah, piss on suzuki, might even change my avatar back)

[THEFERMANATOR]

Early 150/175 OPTIMAX's earned the reputation OPTIPOP's for injector problems that caused powerheads to go left and right, and also early on MERC reccomended there regular oil which was found to have caused alot of issues as well. SUZUKI makes a DAM FINE outboard, so they are right on that one.

[RidgeRunner]

Any Merc dealer can plug the serial number into the Mercury database and pull up the warranty history. The ECM holds the hours of operation that can only be accessed with a technicians diagnostic computer. Some scanners have printing capability and you can get a printout. Ask the dealer if you can talk to the previous owner. That can be a dealbreaker in itself, some dealers will cooperate, some will not..same rings true with previous owners..

Early on I heard the terms "Optipop","POPTIMAX", and worse.
Reelapeelin had a friend with a pair of early Optimax motors that had a ton of hours without problems. Opinions vary, but I have not heard of any reoccurring lean run conditions. Bad fuel? Definitely!
There is a lot of electronics in the modern day outboard as Spare pointed out. Opti's have a lot more going on under the lid than an OX66 Yamaha. One of the most durable motors Yamaha made, but like the EFI Mercs in that they love fuel.. Direct injection is more complex than carbs and crude EFI's but they get double the mileage. In head to head testing the Opti seems to beat out the 4-strokes on performance and mileage then gets slammed for noise and lack of perceived refinement. In the DI class the new Etec's are quiet compared to the Optimax. Finding a 10yr old Etec is gonna be impossible, but OMC did make the Ficht. I know nothing about the Ficht.
Ferm is right on the money about the harness and controls. I have had a 200 carbed, a 250 EFI and now have the 250 Opti on the back of the V-20 and it was always plug and play. The late model Opti's have a different looking harness but from the late 80's up to 03 the harness is the same on the Mercs.
Without Smartcraft the warning buzzer lets you know when something is out of whack with the Opti. With Smartcraft gauges you see what is wrong on a LCD display along with a ton of other info, but not 100% necessary. Analog gauges work just fine for tach/water pressure/temp/volts etc.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Ridge i have done alot of business with this dealer. That may be to my advantage. MarineMax is the only MERC dealer in my area. I may take both motors to them. Then i could pick the best although i dont see too much problem except prop choices if i end up with a counter rotator. I did not know SmartCraft did more than rpm temp etc. It may be worth looking into. Ferm one Suzuki is enough for me now. Although i must admit $20 in gas per week vs $85 for my 6.5 diesel is pretty nice. As for outboard noise i could care less, the louder the better n my opinuon.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Just got off the phone with MarineMax. If the motor is mounted and turn key its $225 for a computer scan comp test visual inspection etc. That would mean i would need controls and everything. If they have to jury rig something it will be expensiver. Labor rate is $99 per hour. That also includes tank testing. With the serial number they can find out everything done. So Ridge and Ferm yall know your stuff!, even though i already knew that. So if i decide to get the motor i need to find controls and switch before i take it. Maybe the dealer who has the motors will let me borrow the controls?

[RidgeRunner]

If your buying both motors, you can pick and choose which gets the counter-rotating lower unit. They are interchangeable (shift cable would need to be reversed at the control box for counter). There are a lot of props for a left hand lower, I don't think you are too limited there..
Opti's figure fuel burn down to molecule so with the Smartcraft you can get Trip in miles, average MPG, instantaneous GPH and MPG in addition to volts,engine tilt, engine temp, speed, water pressure, barometric pressure, water temp, outside air temp, hours, oil tank level,fuel level(with optional sender) trolling speed function is configurable as well. They have several gauges avail, the typical tach and speed gauges are the most common, each one has a analog sweep plus a LDC display at the bottom OR they have a single gauge setup that is all LCD OR they now have vessel view monitor that is like a chartplotter for your engine with a color display. The sky is the limit... You decide on how much info you really want or need for the $$$.

[jasoncooperpcola]

No no no! Lol. I cant afford both motors though it would be nice to have a spare. I might be going with a smart craft gauge. It is not as much as i thought. Vessel view is out of the ballpark for me.

Awaiting a call back for a serial number because my loan is approved!!

[jasoncooperpcola]

Just looked at the motors. They have four. Two 1999's and two 2001's. Upper and lower cowlings have been off since November. Right now they are outside in the elements leaned up against pallets. They said they were on pallets but i did not think like that! Am i being too paranoid about this? I imagine the ecm would not like getting rained on for seven months.

They need a couple days to get them together and see which are which. Then i get to pick the one i want. The tags are hard to read, where else are the serial and model numbers for these engines?

Paint is good on the newer one, cowlings look good. Steering shafts and tilt tube looks good on the one newer engine.

They will have their mechanic do a comp test and run etc free of charge. If i leave it with them they will not start my warranty until i install it on my boat.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Just looked at the motors. They have four. Two 1999's and two 2001's. Upper and lower cowlings have been off since November. Right now they are outside in the elements leaned up against pallets. They said they were on pallets but i did not think like that! Am i being too paranoid about this? I imagine the ecm would not like getting rained on for seven months.

They need a couple days to get them together and see which are which. Then i get to pick the one i want. The tags are hard to read, where else are the serial and model numbers for these engines?

Paint is good on the newer one, cowlings look good. Steering shafts and tilt tube looks good on the one newer engine.

They will have their mechanic do a comp test and run etc free of charge. If i leave it with them they will not start my warranty until i install it on my boat.

make sure and be there when they start em. If they hook it up to a premix tank of fuel and not hook up the oil system RUN as fast as you can from em. I wouldn't be worried to much about the ECM's, but the compressor I WOULD be worried about.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Ferm from what i learned from you, Ridge, and everyone else, premix oil does not lubricate the compressor right? Make sure its clear fuel right?

[THEFERMANATOR]

Ferm from what i learned from you, Ridge, and everyone else, premix oil does not lubricate the compressor right? Make sure its clear fuel right?


The compressor and the engine is ONLY lubed via the oil injection system, so if they don't hook up the oil injection and just try to run it on premix there is NO oil going through the important parts of the engine. When you see somebody do this, you have to ask yourself what else have they done they shouldn't have?

[jasoncooperpcola]

Gotcha. I should have taken my camera but i forgot it this morning. Just put it in the car ten minutes ago. Staring at this engine was like staring at the guts to the International Space Station. I was clueless. I did see the engine oil reservoir, so i know it needs to have oil in it before running. The way it was positioned it was hard to get a good look at everything.

I am considering building a stand for it and getting a motor cover for when i leave it at their shop until my boat is ready which might be February at the earliest. I don't want to "wear out my welcome" so to speak but yet i have a check for $3500 for them on an outboard i haven't even seen put together and running. Is building a stand and asking them to keep it covered too much to ask?

Also they said they can get me the controls and cables for $150 not sure what brand. Once we can find a serial number i can find out what these engines have and dont have.

[RidgeRunner]

Geez, you would think if they wanted to sell the motors they would have made them presentable... I don't think any electronics would do well subjected to the elements for long. Those Opti's have a throttle body that point up, so if all the plastic intake garb isn't intact they may have injested some rainwater from sitting uncovered. Sounds like a good time for pause and reflection..

[jasoncooperpcola]

Actually i asked to see them. Otherwise i would never had known they way they were stored.

I called about one serial number she gave me, it came back to a 2002 Opti counter rotating 30" shaft from Boca Raton (i think i spelled it right). I know for a fact there is a 1999, and a 2001. So the 2002 may be the newest, but how would a 30" shaft affect a V20. I understand i can just move my bracket up more to compensate, but what about the stability? Would the powerhead being higher up cause the boat to roll more?

Talking with MarineMax now they say to stay away from Opti's because parts are becoming hard to get. Truth or more BS?

And finally i found this in Miami. Talked with the seller and it includes wire harness, ignition, prop, but no controls for $3900. May be worth a drive. http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa/2985307886.html

And this is close, but being a 1999 I am not sure, but its $3000 http://okaloosa.craigslist.org/boa/3016491604.html

Just talked to the dealer about the 1999. It has been off since February but on a stand covered up. $3000 is just for the motor and prop. Never had a replaced powerhead or any major service. Its had all the annual service since new.

[RidgeRunner]

As previously mentioned I had a 2000. It was a great motor but with low hours. The only part that I am aware of as being "hard to get" is the SmartCraft style gauges, they are NLA from Merc for the older Opti's. It has been that way for a while now so all of the gauges sitting on dealers shelves have been scavenged up too.. Maybe those MMax guys opinions are based on experience, maybe they know something I don't, I am just a consumer.. dealers can be biased. LOL

[jasoncooperpcola]

I keep looking at the 1999 on CL. I have the gut feeling my money is better spent on it. Plus that leaves me with enough money to get controls. But it has no warranty. Come to think of it most used motors do not come with a warranty. I asaume 650 hours is low hours. Alot to think about.

[jasoncooperpcola]

while researching what the bluewater series Optimax was i found a thread on continuous wave. The 99 /00 Optimax did not have problems like the next two years which is linked to a different supplier of major components. Not sure of the credibility of this. But the bluewater series has a stainless tilt tube.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Geez, you would think if they wanted to sell the motors they would have made them presentable... I don't think any electronics would do well subjected to the elements for long. Those Opti's have a throttle body that point up, so if all the plastic intake garb isn't intact they may have injested some rainwater from sitting uncovered. Sounds like a good time for pause and reflection..

Ridge looking at pictures online, on none of the engines i can see the flywheel and belt. Its covered up by a plastic piece. Is this the intake garb? If so none of the engines at the dealer had that on them. On every one of them the rusty flywheel is not covered at all along with the alternator and compressor.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Ridge looking at pictures online, on none of the engines i can see the flywheel and belt. Its covered up by a plastic piece. Is this the intake garb? If so none of the engines at the dealer had that on them. On every one of them the rusty flywheel is not covered at all along with the alternator and compressor.

At this point I would PASS as fast as you can. From the sound of these engines, they have not been cared for. OPTI's are good engines, but they will NOT withstand abuse and neglect like the old carbed engines could.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Ferm what about the 1999 i linked above? That was my backup plan.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Personally I would wait until the boat is done. Buying an engine in the fall or winter will save you some money as well. Early summer is the worst time to buy an engine as everybody is trying to buy an engine to get out on teh water for summer which drives the prices up.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Like i said i wanted to wait until tax season but i found these. Now i have the loan approved and a $3500 check in the truck. Its costing me $150 a month for this loan. So i figured i might as well use it.

[RidgeRunner]

Ferms thoughts were going to be echoed by me but I understand, you got the sickness.. :beer:
Sort out what you can when you can so when the boat is done you can jam on the rigging and get er done..

Regarding the plastic intake stuff, the flywheel cover missing would not necessarily mean water in the throttle body. That piece covers exactly what you said. The piece in the very front that clamps over the throttle body and serves as the front mount for the flywheel cover is the one of concern.(Nobody would need to remove it to remove the motor so it is probably a moot point) BUT With it missing and the motors stored upright the throttle body becomes a funnel.. Still, with the flywheel cover removed the air compressor has its air intake exposed that could allow water to enter there. It faces straight up and actually pulls air from the front (where the air filter is) through the flywheel cover and into the compressor. The more I think about it, I think I would walk away briskly.
Too many motors for sale, as you know.

[phatdaddy]

could you take the check back to the cu, repay the loan & establish a $3500 line of credit.when you find the deal & check it out, then go and get the money. having to pay $150 a month would make me want to jump on something pretty quick.
have you checked the mobile craiglist. they are not far from you and a larger market. i'll keep an eye out over here in pc.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Phat i appreciate it. I will talk with the credit union tomorrow. I checked mobile and no luck. So my two options now are a 1999 in fort walton and a 2002 in miami. Both have 650 hours.

Ridge i am not even thinking about the first motors anymore.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Too heavy and too much power?

http://pensacola.craigslist.org/boa/3028075545.html

[jasoncooperpcola]

I have one more option, its a 2003 Optimax 25" shaft. Emerald Coast Marine just quoted a repower on a boat powered by twin Opti's. He said to give him a couple days to find out if they do it or not.

If this one falls through i am giving the check back and trading my GMC for a Ford F150 4x4.

[macojoe]

The guys I know with the ox66 say they are great motors, but a bit thirsty. Also think that 250 be way more then the V can handle.

Stay away from Ford!

[bgreene]

What about the Yami 350 hp V8 ? Only weighs around 800 lbs......

Figure we should get 65 mph before the transom tears off and the boat sinks.

[jasoncooperpcola]

What about the Yami 350 hp V8 ? Only weighs around 800 lbs......

Figure we should get 65 mph before the transom tears off and the boat sinks.
The way i am building my bracket it will have to tear the stringers, and the whole bottom of the boat out for five feet! Besides i wont pay $25000 for a four stroke Yamaha.

[bgreene]

The way i am building my bracket it will have to tear the stringers, and the whole bottom of the boat out for five feet! Besides i wont pay $25000 for a four stroke Yamaha.

Yup, I've gone with used outboards my last four boats, all good if you're careful picking.

[captpete13]

[QUOTE=jasoncooperpcola; and too much power?


there is no such thing as too much power. If I came across one of those motors for a good deal it would be on the back of my boat faster then it takes me to type this response

[jasoncooperpcola]

there is no such thing as too much power. If I came across one of those motors for a good deal it would be on the back of my boat faster then it takes me to type this response


If i can get the OX66 complete with binaccle cables keys etc, for $3500 should i jump on it? Only issue its 550lbs.


Talked with the owner it has 530 hours but its a 30" shaft. He will let it go for $3500.

[jasoncooperpcola]

My dad just passed away and i had to use $520 of the outboard money to cover what insurance did not on the funeral and burial expenses. So i have $3000 to find an outboard.

[captpete13]

hey I'm sorry for your loss. I didn't know how much the 250 weighed. It is a great engine though. I have a 2.6L 225 Yamaha. It is the same weight as all the 150-200 2.6L's. they are older motors but I still see good clean ones every once and a while. Also watch for a V6 Excel. That's what they called the early 225's

[jasoncooperpcola]

I am really worried about the shaft length on the OX66. If it wasn't for that i might have already bought it.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Sorry about your dad, know the feeling as I lost mine 9 years ago. As for the YAMAHA 250, it is too heavy and way out of it's element for a V-20. The 76 degree YAMAHA's are best suited for pushing heavy loads as they drink as much fuel as the old OMC V-8's did, but make almost as much torque as they did. For a bracketed boat in teh 200HP range, you won't find a much better match than the older 2.5L MERCURY. They had a long production run, parts are easy to find, pretty reliable once you removed the oil injection, and they are easy to work on if you find a carbed engine.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Found a couple more motors that may work, not sure if they are 2.5L or a 3.0L. May have to do some "horse trading" to get one.

panamacity.craigslist.org/boa/3016036425.html (http://www.panamacity.craigslist.org/boa/3016036425.html)

2000 Mercury 200 EFI $4000

panamacity.craigslist.org/boa/2995535437.html (http://www.panamacity.craigslist.org/boa/2995535437.html)

1994 Mercury 2.5L 200 $2000

pensacola.craigslist.org/boa/3032228907.html (http://www.pensacola.craigslist.org/boa/3032228907.html)

2000 250 Merc EFI (dont know how a 250 got here. :head: )

panamacity.craigslist.org/boa/2991667409.html (http://www.panamacity.craigslist.org/boa/2991667409.html)

1991 Mercury 2.5L $950

Still waiting to hear from Kenny at Emerald Coast Marine about the twin 2003 Optimax 225's. Should know something this week.

[cterrebonne]

Found a couple more motors that may work, not sure if they are 2.5L or a 3.0L. May have to do some "horse trading" to get one.

panamacity.craigslist.org/boa/3016036425.html (http://www.panamacity.craigslist.org/boa/3016036425.html)

2000 Mercury 200 EFI $4000

panamacity.craigslist.org/boa/2995535437.html (http://www.panamacity.craigslist.org/boa/2995535437.html)

1994 Mercury 2.5L 200 $2000

pensacola.craigslist.org/boa/3032228907.html (http://www.pensacola.craigslist.org/boa/3032228907.html)

2000 250 Merc EFI (dont know how a 250 got here. :head: )

panamacity.craigslist.org/boa/2991667409.html (http://www.panamacity.craigslist.org/boa/2991667409.html)

1991 Mercury 2.5L $950

Still waiting to hear from Kenny at Emerald Coast Marine about the twin 2003 Optimax 225's. Should know something this week.

I might be wrong but in '91 i thought the mercs were still 2.4's

I like that '94 for 2k.

[THEFERMANATOR]

The 2.5L came out in 90, but 91 still had some 2.4L engines coming out with steel sleeved engines.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Did some searching on craigslist for Yamaha. All i can find are blown engines. Did find an excel but lost where i found it.

[macojoe]

I had a 2.4 Merc 175hp That thing pushed the Sea Ox good and man it was good on gas! BS just put it on his 23 Seacraft and loving it!

[jasoncooperpcola]

Found a 76 degree 225 Yamaha 420lbs for $3200 but its a 30" shaft. These 30" shafts are getting to be a pain.

mobile.craigslist.org/boa/3030928094.html

[THEFERMANATOR]

Found a 76 degree 225 Yamaha 420lbs for $3000 but its a 30" shaft. These 30" shafts are getting to be a pain.

Add another 100 to that amount and you will be in the ball park of it's actual weight. I have a blown 250 76 degree YAMAHA, and it was a heavy SOB to get off the boat. They went to the offset cran kand 76 degree V to keep the engine from being so big that it wouldn't fit an average splashwell because it was such a big engine(3.4L with a BIG block design). The 76 degree engines were built for pushing heavy loads and to push out the OMC V-8 engines.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Nada must be off. I googled L225turv weight and got 494 pounds on a couple different sites. I have been pulling the weights from NADA.

[captpete13]

blown engines are not necessarily a bad thing. If you get it cheap enough. Drop on a rebuilt powerhead and start off fresh.

[THEFERMANATOR]

blown engines are not necessarily a bad thing. If you get it cheap enough. Drop on a rebuilt powerhead and start off fresh.

76 degree V engines cost a small FORTUNE to rebuild, and even more to buy a running one. I've got one in teh shed in pieces, and I just can't justify building it as I would only be able to make a few hundred off of it rebuilt.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Right now i know where a carbed 1996 Merc 225XL is that has low comp on all cylinders. not sure if its a 2.5 or 3.0. Still trying to figure that out, as there seems to be an overlap when they produced a 2.5L and a 3.0L 200 at the same time. Would Capt Petes idea be practical? Right now i also have seen a 225 Excell on CL for $1000.

pensacola.craigslist.org/boa/2994949014.html

I have seen an ad on CL for outboard rebuilding for $1850, i know rebuilds can cost half that or ten times that, heres the ad

pensacola.craigslist.org/boa/3056815292.html

Also i have a V6 Yamaha counter rotating lower unit in the shed from the 250 Sportsman.

Just emailed the seller of the 2.5L Merc 200 for $2000, waiting to hear back on the shaft length controls and hours. I have the feeling the 2.5L Merc is a "weak" 200. Is this the case? Because they also have a 3.0L 200. But i bet the 2.5L would be less thirsty? I may say to hell with the Optimax and EFI and stay with my original idea of a carbed outboard that i can work on. I really cant afford to put one in the shop for work i cant do. May take a loss in speed. Is 50mph possible for a 2.5L 200 pushing a V20 on a bracket?

[THEFERMANATOR]

The 2.5L 200 MERC is not weak by any means. It doesn't have the torque of the 3.0L, but it will perform very well on a V-20. MJ pushed his 23 foot SEA OX with a 2.4L, and I don't think he ever complained about the power. A 225 is almost certainly a 3.0L. The main reaso nthey went to the 3.0L 200 MERC was for emissions and torque for heavier boats. The 2.5L engine was available all the way up to 280HP from MERCURY's performance division. Look over on scream and fly for an engine as well.

[macojoe]

Yep like I said, I had a 2.4 Merc 175 on the Sea Ox and its a heavy boat, at 3300# before bracket, motor, 100 gal gas, tackle, ice and people! Ran a 15 pitch prop, got low 30's GREAT on gas!!!!I got it from BS and after I bought the 4 stroke I sold back to BS, he just blew his 200 Merc and put it on his 23 Seacraft and loving it.

IMO you need nothing more for a V20, never can use it at 50 mph 99% of time any how! Then the gas at today's prices, heck I am happy in the 30's any day!! lower then that most of the time.With the 200 HDPI I have now it goes great and the thing sips gas:beer:

[bgreene]

Yep like I said, I had a 2.4 Merc 175 on the Sea Ox and its a heavy boat, at 3300# before bracket, motor, 100 gal gas, tackle, ice and people! Ran a 15 pitch prop, got low 30's GREAT on gas!!!!I got it from BS and after I bought the 4 stroke I sold back to BS, he just blew his 200 Merc and put it on his 23 Seacraft and loving it.

IMO you need nothing more for a V20, never can use it at 50 mph 99% of time any how! Then the gas at today's prices, heck I am happy in the 30's any day!! lower then that most of the time.With the 200 HDPI I have now it goes great and the thing sips gas:beer:

You're running the V with 200 hpdi or other boat ?

[phatdaddy]

jason, i'd stay away from the guy in milton. heard many horror stories locally about him & his "rebuilds". go the the hull truth & do a search under blackwater.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Thanks Phat!!! I am very glad you warned me about him. I never would have known. I guess the V will be getting a 2.5 Merc 200. If anyone knows where one is let me know! Btw i weighed my 1985 Johnson 150. 390lbs!

[Destroyer]

Thanks Phat!!! I am very glad you warned me about him. I never would have known. I guess the V will be getting a 2.5 Merc 200. If anyone knows where one is let me know! Btw i weighed my 1985 Johnson 150. 390lbs!

That's exactly the engine I'm putting onto my 21'. Took it off the Cruisers, Inc boat before I scrapped her. Great engine.. they just keep going and going and going.... :love:

[macojoe]

bgreene
You're running the V with 200 hpdi or other boat ?



Nope, look below in my signature, I got rid of the V20, 5 years ago. I now have a 23 Sea Ox with the 200 HDPI, The V had a 175 on it.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Destroyer you reminded me of a kingfish tourney a couple years ago. Guy had a brand new Cape Horn with twin 2.5 Mercs. I could not figure out why he put old engines on a new boat. Shotgun start he outran everybody!

[jasoncooperpcola]

Just talked with the gentleman with the 1994 Merc 2.5L 200. He said he has had it out about a dozen times, but needed a short shaft motor. It needs a cowling seal, the po took it out. He said he is willing to let me do a comp check. What all do i need to lookout for on this motor? What should my comp numbers be? Going to look at it saturday.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Compression should be around 120-130 for a 2.5L I believe. The only real downfall to them is the oil injection system, and the power packs for the ignition. Other than that they are strong reliable engines.

[jasoncooperpcola]

Should i plan on running premix or can i trust the oil injection if i replace major components? What should i be reading at the plug leads with a multimeter? Will Mercury new gauges work with it?

Also i might take what is left of the loan and get a Mercury 2 stroke kicker. Thinking 15-25hp 20" shaft.

[phatdaddy]

there are 2 different schools of thought on the oil injection system. i have a 94 150 with 1500 hours, all on the injection system. it is a simple pump system that works off of a plastic ring on the crank shaft. if that ring breaks, pump no pump, engine no go. the only alarms on it are one on the pump that will sound if the pump quits rotating and another in the engine mounted tank that sounds if it runs low on oil. i have friends with the same motor that they have disabled the system. they use a lot more oil and have to clean carbs more often. i have never had the carbs off of mine. one day, i am going to get snake bit, but for now i like the system. i do carry a spare gallon of oil and at the slightest hint of a buzzer , i dump a gallon in the fuel tank. i have only had to do this once in 18 years because a hose split & the top tank was not refilling. the oil is moved from the storage tank to the motor tank by crankcase pressure. i do keep a eye on my hoses and have replaced them twice. to change out that ring, you have to take the whole motor apart.
i am sure 80% on here will tell you to run premix to eliminate a varible.
also make sure the steering arm is in good shape, mine almost rotted off and a major pia to swap out.

[spareparts]

steering arm is the big issue, make sure its not rusted real bad, it would cost around $1500 to have it replaced, if it all came apart easy. I'd ditch the oil injection, if the motor was run on a regular basis, I wouldn't worry about it, most of the gear failures I've seen are from engines that sat a lot, if you want to gamble with it, mix some amsoil 100 to 1 oil at about a 200 to 1 ratio, if the gear dies, you have some lube in the gas to prevent immediate failure, then add oil to get you home

[jasoncooperpcola]

It would be nice not to have to premix, but if oil is in the fuel tank then i know its there. I think i found the oil pump gear, its called a "gear kit" on the crankshaft and is $40 but dam Phat was right you have to disassemble the entire powerhead. You would think there would be some way to retrofit a new oil pump onto the flywheel or something. I dont even know if the oil pump is hooked up or not. But i plan to have a premixed 6 gallons of fuel.

I learned from the Johnson to check the steering shaft etc.

[spareparts]

good luck finding one(2.5 200), seems like the price on the newer four strokes have driven the price on good used two strokes up. Look on craigslist cities around big fresh water lakes. I've been looking for a 200 for a friend of mine, found a bunch of 150's, even a 175, but 200's are getting hard to find. The 225 Opti seems to be the most common used engine for a decent deal, you just have to deal with the weight

[phatdaddy]

http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/oo214/gls216/DSCF0481-1.jpg

spot on spare, that's why i keep this on standby, when my oil injection fails, i am only four bolts away from being on the water again...

jason, i'll keep looking over this way.

[jasoncooperpcola]

http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/oo214/gls216/DSCF0481-1.jpg

spot on spare, that's why i keep this on standby, when my oil injection fails, i am only four bolts away from being on the water again...

jason, i'll keep looking over this way.

:love::love::love::love::love::love::love::love:

Thanks, Phat. I might be over in your neck of the woods tomorrow looking at a 94 2.5L 200. Spare i agree Optimax's are everywhere now that i have decided against one. I have found a couple 2.5L 200s around town, my uncle from Louisiana is checking on one for me too. Hell i even found one for $950!!

panamacity.craigslist.org/boa/2991667409.html

[captpete13]

76 degree V engines cost a small FORTUNE to rebuild, and even more to buy a running one. I've got one in teh shed in pieces, and I just can't justify building it as I would only be able to make a few hundred off of it rebuilt.
I'm not talking about the 250. I'm talking about a 2.6l Yamaha. But even a 250, If you get one that has a good crank and just needs a piston or two isn't too bad. My 225 needed one new piston when I got it. It also needed a crank but I got that for free. I had the one cyl bored out and re-ringed the other five. I rebuilt the carbs,replaced the oil pump and water pump and thermostats. And it's been good ever since. I'm closing in on 400 hours.

[captpete13]

It would be nice not to have to premix, but if oil is in the fuel tank then i know its there. I think i found the oil pump gear, its called a "gear kit" on the crankshaft and is $40 but dam Phat was right you have to disassemble the entire powerhead. You would think there would be some way to retrofit a new oil pump onto the flywheel or something. I dont even know if the oil pump is hooked up or not. But i plan to have a premixed 6 gallons of fuel.

I learned from the Johnson to check the steering shaft etc.


a couple months ago I installed an electric oil pump conversion for a 2.5 merc. It uses an electric motor to run the merc mechanical pump. It all fit under the cowl with no real modification to the engine. When I go to work on Monday will try to find the papers for it.

[THEFERMANATOR]

a couple months ago I installed an electric oil pump conversion for a 2.5 merc. It uses an electric motor to run the merc mechanical pump. It all fit under the cowl with no real modification to the engine. When I go to work on Monday will try to find the papers for it.


Here you go. I honestly don't know why Mercury never made a replacement bronze gear for the crank.

[jasoncooperpcola]

But what if you lose battery power or somebody turns the battery switch off while running? I assume the 2.5L will run without a battery after its started. Do the 2.5L have an alternator?

Also what should i read on a multimeter on the plug leads? On my 1985 Johnson 150 it had low voltage on two plug leads. May be contributing to why it was so thirsty and had no power.

Priced out a Mercury binnacle control $334. May find an aftermarket cheaper but i would like to stay with all Merc controls and gauges. What about a prop, whats a good starting point?

Is this the electric oil pump?? www.marinesolutionswi.com/index.htm

[captpete13]

That's it. Ironicly enough my Yamaha rep helped develop this product. It uses the merc oil pump and keeps all the merc alarm sensors. If I had a 2.5 Merc that's what I would use. Sure beats wasting expensive oil on premix.

[phatdaddy]

http://www.propelledmarine.com/oil_injection.htm

$400, pricey, but a lot better than tearing down the engine & putting it back together.
with another plastic gear.

nice info , capt pete

[jasoncooperpcola]

Stuck in the house today. As if the pouring rain wasn't enough i have a killer toothache now. I hope to look at the outboard tomorrow weather permitting.

I like the EOI. But my only concern is if it loses power. The power wire is connected to the starter solenoid. Like i stated earlier what if the battery gets disconnected? $400 is a bit pricey but, when compared to carb cleaning and plugs changes associated with premix, i think it might pay for itself. Even just in the oil cost.

[spareparts]

they've been running electric oil pumps on optis for quite some time now. If you disconnect your engine while running, you're going to burn up some electronics as well. Just don't disconnect it

[jasoncooperpcola]

they've been running electric oil pumps on optis for quite some time now. If you disconnect your engine while running, you're going to burn up some electronics as well. Just don't disconnect it

I am talking about an Electric oil injection on a 94 Mercury 2.5L 200. I decided against an Optimax due to the potential repair costs.

[Destroyer]

http://www.propelledmarine.com/oil_injection.htm

$400, pricey, but a lot better than tearing down the engine & putting it back together.
with another plastic gear.

nice info , capt pete

Bad link? IE keeps shutting down the site, saying it has a problem?

[phatdaddy]

d, i just tried it & it connected. it's basically the same info jason posted with prices.

jason, i just looked at the radar, you guys are getting hammered. we are still between bands, so we're gonna run out and get the crab traps in and try to be back before the bottom falls out. good luck with the tooth

[jasoncooperpcola]

I just looked out at the boat, no water draining from the sides but water is pouring from the bilge. So the scuppers are clogged and now i have 3" water on deck and its pouring into the bilge. I am going to fix that when i build my bracket and close the transom in.

www.thmarine.com/products/Aeration-and-Plumbing/Drain-Fittings/Scupper-Drains/Large-Rectangular-Scupper (http://www.thmarine.com/products/Aeration-and-Plumbing/Drain-Fittings/Scupper-Drains/Large-Rectangular-Scupper)

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj199/jasoncooperpcola/rain002.jpg

[jasoncooperpcola]

I am now the owner of a 1994 Mercury 2.5L Offshore 200. :clap: Compression was 120 +/- 2psi on all cylinders. All the oil injection was removed and they did not have it. Not sure if i am going to replace all of it and run EOI.

The tilt tube is pretty rusted, and the previous owner took all the latches off the cowling and the seal and used bungee type latches on the cowling. New decals wouldn't hurt but it looks good as is. All in all i think i did ok paying $1200.

On the way home we stopped at Bass Pro and took the dogs in with us for a quick look around. First time i have even been in Bass Pro and i found it crowded.

Right now i am building a stand to run it. It did not come with controls or keys,etc. How do i shut it off once i get it running?

[phatdaddy]

congrats, welcome to the merc fold. i have an old piece of a wiring harness that i hooked up to a generic key switch. it makes it alot easier starting & stopping. i bet bass pro was packed given the weather we've had.

[jasoncooperpcola]

I figured out which terminal in the harness shut it off. :sun:

Motor sound really good. I think i might have upset some neighbors running it at 10:00 at night. :hi:

Put a thread on the local forum to see what some of the dealers can do on a package deal for rigging. As for a prop i have a Rapture 14.25x21. I am thinking its too much pitch.

It had a tee in the water outlet hose that i assume was for water pressure. Should i keep it or just plug it?

As for maintenance i have already replaced the spark plugs, and i plan to change the lower unit oil and water pump, then clean the carbs. Still wondering about the oil injection.

[Destroyer]

I figured out which terminal in the harness shut it off. :sun:

Motor sound really good. I think i might have upset some neighbors running it at 10:00 at night. :hi:

Put a thread on the local forum to see what some of the dealers can do on a package deal for rigging. As for a prop i have a Rapture 14.25x21. I am thinking its too much pitch.

It had a tee in the water outlet hose that i assume was for water pressure. Should i keep it or just plug it?

As for maintenance i have already replaced the spark plugs, and i plan to change the lower unit oil and water pump, then clean the carbs. Still wondering about the oil injection.

I found that a SS 14.5 x 17 was a good all around prop for my engine (1991 200 hp 2.5 Merc) It pushed my 2500lb 21' Cruisers, Inc at an honest 42-45 mph seemingly effortlessly. I still have that prop on my engine and will be using it when I put the engine on my V21 later this year.

I still have my OEM oil injection hooked up, and it works fine, but truthfully I was going to unhook it and run premix. After seeing that electronic unit I think I'm going to bite the bullet and get one. I figure that $500 is far better than several thousand for a new engine.

[phatdaddy]

since the po had the oil injection disabled, i'd run premix. i would definately have a water pressure guage. it also should have a temp sensor. i would run both. i like the pressure guage because it lets me know a problem is developing. with a new water pump, you should have between 10 to 13 psi @ 4000 rpm. when mine starts only showing 7 to 8, i know i need to change it soon.

[jasoncooperpcola]

I might go ahead and run water pressure, as for water temp the Mercury Flagship gauges only have a C-H type gauge. I would rather have some numbers, but its no big deal.

Looked up parts for rigging, and i bout had a heart attack when i seen the price for a outboard to remote harness $280 for 20'. That might be the only used component i use on rigging if i can find one used.

The Rapture props are no longer made. They have been replaced by "Apollo". The 21 might make a spare. $280 for an Apollo stainless prop. Both Rapture and Apollo are Michigan wheel props.

Destroyer if you decide to run premix i can take that oil injection off your hands. :beer:

[bgreene]

Speaking of 225 Optimax on a V - should run 50-55 mph. Nice.

[Destroyer]

Destroyer if you decide to run premix i can take that oil injection off your hands. :beer:

If I decide to go that direction you're first in line.

[Destroyer]

Jason. I kept thinking about it, turning it over and over in my mind. I like the idea of not having to premix gas, but I hate the thought of living under the "will I lose my engine because of a failed plastic gear" cloud. So
I ordered an electric oil injection unit today. http://www.propelledmarine.com/oil_injection.htm I don't know what, if anything, is or is not required of me to remove from my engine. But if I have to remove the present oil pump are you still interested? :head: My engine is a 1991 Merc 200 2.5L.

[jasoncooperpcola]

I believe the EOI uses the old oil pump.

What we need is a boat mounted 50:1 premix unit. Something that you pour your oil into, and it mixes the oil with the gas at a 50:1 rate, then pours it into a remote 5 gallon fuel tank, which the fuel is then drawn out of by the outboard. The remote 5 gallon tank serves as a backup in case, the unit fails you dont immediately burn your engine up.

Maybe i should patent this idea???

[Destroyer]

I believe the EOI uses the old oil pump.

What we need is a boat mounted 50:1 premix unit. Something that you pour your oil into, and it mixes the oil with the gas at a 50:1 rate, then pours it into a remote 5 gallon fuel tank, which the fuel is then drawn out of by the outboard. The remote 5 gallon tank serves as a backup in case, the unit fails you dont immediately burn your engine up.

Maybe i should patent this idea???

I don't think you can patent just an idea. You have to have a drawing of the unit showing how it works I believe. Still, it's a great idea. Something that would automatically sense when your gas didn't have oil in it and would automatically switch over to the reserve tank of premix. Think of how many hundreds of thousands of dollars in ruined engines would be saved. Still, maybe we shouldn't think too hard about this... It might cut down on Spares and Ferms business... that would be bad for them. (But I love the idea of the automix tank)

[phatdaddy]

from what i understand, it's no the oil pump that is the weak link, it's the plastic gear on the crank.

jason, that is why i carry a spare gallon of oil on the boat, with the v having a 60 gallon tank, if i even think i have a mixing problem, i dump the gallon of oil in the fuel tank. i have only had to do this twice in 18 years, once it was a split hose to the engine tank and the other was a bad oil alert module.
the only bad is sometimes the only symptom you get is when the engine seizes...

something i have thought that would help in sensing oil injection problem was some kind of pressure gauge on the oil tank

[Destroyer]

from what I understand, it's not the oil pump that is the weak link, it's the plastic gear on the crank.

Exactly. My engine is a 1991. That's nothing for metal, but it's a lot of years for plastic. Although there's no indication that there's anything wrong with the plastic gear, or any part of my oil injection system, I just don't want to take the chance. $397 is cheap insurance in my book.

[jasoncooperpcola]

I don't think you can patent just an idea. You have to have a drawing of the unit showing how it works I believe. Still, it's a great idea. Something that would automatically sense when your gas didn't have oil in it and would automatically switch over to the reserve tank of premix. Think of how many hundreds of thousands of dollars in ruined engines would be saved. Still, maybe we shouldn't think too hard about this... It might cut down on Spares and Ferms business... that would be bad for them. (But I love the idea of the automix tank)

I am stuck right now on this idea. I need an investor and somebody good with "electric stuff"

[Destroyer]

I am stuck right now on this idea. I need an investor and somebody good with "electric stuff"

We know that fuel, even with a 100 : 1 mix is different chemically than just straight fuel. There are ways to measure it. Without really thinking about it too much, I think a sensor hooked to a microprocessor that measures the viscosity of the fuel several hundred times a second as it flows past might work. (I think that fuel with oil in it would have a different viscosity index than fuel without oil in it). You just have to monitor the thickness of the fuel. If it falls below a set parameter it would send a signal to a solenoid that would switch a valve to a different tank filled with premix in it and sound an alarm. The problem of course is writting the program. The rest is just basic mechanical stuff.

[THEFERMANATOR]

We know that fuel, even with a 100 : 1 mix is different chemically than just straight fuel. There are ways to measure it. Without really thinking about it too much, I think a sensor hooked to a microprocessor that measures the viscosity of the fuel several hundred times a second as it flows past might work. (I think that fuel with oil in it would have a different viscosity index than fuel without oil in it). You just have to monitor the thickness of the fuel. If it falls below a set parameter it would send a signal to a solenoid that would switch a valve to a different tank filled with premix in it and sound an alarm. The problem of course is writting the program. The rest is just basic mechanical stuff.

Personally that is to overdone for me. It only takes a few extra minutes to use a mixing bottle and KNOW the oil is in it. Unfortunately for the DFI guys, this won't work.

[jasoncooperpcola]

I have figured out a way using one pump and the remote tank. Without all the computer stuff. And it is stupid simple. If i had the pump, I can build a prototype with a trip to westmarine.

[THEFERMANATOR]

I have figured out a way using one pump and the remote tank. Without all the computer stuff. And it is stupid simple. If i had the pump, I can build a prototype with a trip to westmarine.

The factory MERC system works with just one pump, and the module is for nothing but a warning system and doesn't affect the oil injection system in any way.

[jasoncooperpcola]

The factory MERC system works with just one pump, and the module is for nothing but a warning system and doesn't affect the oil injection system in any way.

I was referring to my "automix unit" idea and Destroyers post.

[bgreene]

I don't know about all the tech stuff.......but I'd speculated that a new 2012 Opti 225 prop'd just right, and trimmed out will push a clean V21 to about 55 mph, maybe a touch more.

[Destroyer]

Electric oil injection unit arrived today from Go2Marine. Nicely packaged, looks well made. Will try hooking it up tomorrow if time permits and report on how it works. :party: