subaru or volvo??

[charlie_the_tuna]

so i'm thinking of either a subaru outback or a volvo v70/xc70. figure on 1998 to 2002. anybody have experience with either of these cars? i figure on spending around $5,000. or so. looking for something that'll last and get decent mileage.
subaru 4 cyl or volvo 5 cyl?

[Destroyer]

4 cyl Honda Accord. They run forever. Period.

But if you have your heart set on one of those other two, I'd go with the Subaru.. repairs on the Volvo will eat you alive. Sister in Law had the Outback... she loves it, and has put some serious milage on it with only normal maintenance.

[lumberslinger178]

I had a couple volvo's I loved them both cant beat them swed engineers.

[reelapeelin]

so i'm thinking of either a subaru outback or a volvo v70/xc70. figure on 1998 to 2002. anybody have experience with either of these cars? i figure on spending around $5,000. or so. looking for something that'll last and get decent mileage.
subaru 4 cyl or volvo 5 cyl?


Charlie, does the XC indicate Cross Country?...if so, is that all-wheel-drive?...I wouldn't think good gas is gonna be there for ya....and you'll wanna look at octane requirements for both cars...some need Hi-Test...which for me is short for Hi-Dollar, Test my Patience!

[charlie_the_tuna]

reel, both cars are all wheel drive.

[Stinky_Hooker]

Ive always loved the Subarus.

Also something to consider, Charlie is a VW Jetta. Ive got a friend with one and she loves it. Very slick inside, excellent mileage and dependable as can be. I plan on getting the wife one soon Lord Willing.

[reelapeelin]

reel, both cars are all wheel drive.

The V70 is AWD?...It did slip my mind Subaru was AWD...was thinking it part time...:head:

Does octane requirement matter to you?...

[charlie_the_tuna]

reel, now that you mention, i'm not 100% the v70 is awd. but that xc70 is cute as hell. stinker, always liked the vdubs but looking for more in the station wagon style.

[Destroyer]

Ive always loved the Subarus.

Also something to consider, Charlie is a VW Jetta. Ive got a friend with one and she loves it. Very slick inside, excellent mileage and dependable as can be. I plan on getting the wife one soon Lord Willing.

Only problem with the VW's is the cost of repairs. Same sis-in-law that now has the Outback had a Jetta before that. Loved the car, but when she went for brakes she was handed a $900 repair bill. Guy at work had a Toureg... needed a sensor replaced...turns out it was above the muffler and tranny... $2400 for the labor to replace it. (The part itself was $14)

Same thing with the Volvos. I love them mechanically...solid, well built...but like all vehicles, they require regular maintenance to keep them running right...and wait till you get that repair bill...speaking from experience..trust me.

[phatdaddy]

i have never liked anything over 5 hp with an odd number of cylinders

[reelapeelin]

Only problem with the VW's is the cost of repairs. Same sis-in-law that now has the Outback had a Jetta before that. Loved the car, but when she went for brakes she was handed a $900 repair bill. Guy at work had a Toureg... needed a sensor replaced...turns out it was above the muffler and tranny... $2400 for the labor to replace it. (The part itself was $14)

Same thing with the Volvos. I love them mechanically...solid, well built...but like all vehicles, they require regular maintenance to keep them running right...and wait till you get that repair bill...speaking from experience..trust me.

Our Jetta ain't cheap to work on...dealer wanted $750 for the catalytic converter...got it elswhere installed for less, but dissappointed to find it had a PLASTIC dip-stick tube which ROTTED down to the engine...fun car to drive...5 speed...just drove it at the beach...but our camry w/TWICE the miles is a much more SOLID car...doors still close like a BMW..Personally I wouldn't buy another VW...we've already had the transmission rebuilt @ < 100,000 miles

Charlie...get the Subaroo!!...

[macojoe]

My son had a Jetta Had to be the bigest POS I ever seen! I have another with a outback, he likes it but its getting up there in age now and he has fixed a few things for $$$

[Destroyer]

Our Jetta ain't cheap to work on...dealer wanted $750 for the catalytic converter...got it elswhere installed for less, but dissappointed to find it had a PLASTIC dip-stick tube which ROTTED down to the engine...fun car to drive...5 speed...just drove it at the beach...but our camry w/TWICE the miles is a much more SOLID car...doors still close like a BMW..Personally I wouldn't buy another VW...we've already had the transmission rebuilt @ < 100,000 miles

Charlie...get the Subaroo!!...

Yep....I completely agree Reel. The Camry is to Toyota what the Accord is to Honda.... Both are top of the line and are built like I wish American cars were built. My wife drives a 2004 Accord with just over 100k miles...only thing we've ever done to it is normal maintenance...

Charlie, ....Given only the choice of the Subaru or the Volvo my choice would be the Subaru every time.:head:

[spareparts]

I guess this is the annual "Charlie wants another car thread" I'll stick with my recommendation from a year or two ago, 97-99 Tahoe/Burb. You can find them all day long for $3500-$5000. My wifes 99 is now my 99, she's got an 02 now. The 99 has 234k on it, runs great and is cheap to keep running, gets better mileage than the 02. I will admit, the 02 drives a whole lot better

[THEFERMANATOR]

Yep....I completely agree Reel. The Camry is to Toyota what the Accord is to Honda.... Both are top of the line and are built like I wish American cars were built. My wife drives a 2004 Accord with just over 100k miles...only thing we've ever done to it is normal maintenance...

Charlie, ....Given only the choice of the Subaru or the Volvo my choice would be the Subaru every time.:head:

It always bugs me when I read and hear things like this. I work on em for a living, and I would MUCH rather have an American car come in VS an import. The newer Amercian cars really aren't what people rememebr from the 70's and 80's. The imports give just as much trouble, but cost 2-3 times as much to fix. It hurts me as people don't want to spend that much money to fix em. Not to mention some of there designing is a real bear to work around and get parts for.

[spareparts]

I hear what you're saying Ferm, I had the 99 burb in to have the front end aligned, the tech came in and told me it had some slop in the steering box(nothing wrong with the box, just his alignment, but that's another story)=, I made the comment that with over 200K on it, it deserved to have a little slop. They was a lady standing there that commented, wow, i has over 200,000 miles, what kind of car is that? I told her it was a Chevy. She commented that she didn't think American cars would last that long. She had her Lexus in for over $1000 in maintenance. I told her the burb was just getting broken in good, I expected at least another 100K out of it, then I told her my van has 340K on it, she couldn't believe it. The majority of the American buying public has been brainwashed into thinking you have to have a foreign car to have a good car. There are good and bad cars from all manufactures. A good friend of mine is a service manager at a Honda dealership, I asked him if the cars were really that good. He said the difference is, most Honda owners do what the manual says to do, if it says you need to spend what ever on the front end at what ever mileage, they tend to do it, if the manual says you need to have the dealer change your oil at what ever millage, they carry the car to the dealer to have it done. That dealer ship does a lot of oil changes, tune ups and brake jobs, most people who own domestic cars either do the work them selves or take it to the quick lube on the corner. The fact that a factory trained tech looks over those cars at the dealer ship goes a long way towards preventative maintenance. If you start out with a solid car and take care of it, regardless of what brand it is, you should get good use out of it

[reelapeelin]

I hate to see and hear the negative about domestics as well, but it's pretty undeniable the American mfgrs did it to themselves...at a time when the imports were shipping in better quality than the general public was accustomed to, the quality of domestics was on a pretty noticeable decline...the one exception was trucks...
I have a good friend who's father bought a Nissan/Chrysler dealer in the early 80s...as they were losing money selling/maintaining Chryslers, he dropped the Chryslers like a hot rock in '86...I'd love to have a recent Mustang or an early one, but there were years I wouldn't have thought of buying one...about the only domestic holding up a good standard was Buick that I remember...that's just my cut at it...

[Destroyer]

Spare and Ferm... I respect both of you for your vast mechanical knowledge, but this is one time I'm gonna disagree. You have to understand that I've been a proponent of BUY AMERICAN for most of my adult life... I would never own foreign born iron...

But in 2002 My wife bought a brand new Dodge Intrepid, with a 2.7 V6 engine in it..Great car, plenty of power, etc etc etc. It was great right up until, with less than 65,000 miles on it, the engine blew up. The dealership would not repair it under any sort of warentee, but would be happy to put in a rebuilt 2.7 for just over $4,800. I did a little searching and found out that this engine, which was the first ever 100% computer designed engine, had a long history of baking the oil because it ran so hot...and it had tiny oil galleys...so the oil galleys sludged up and got smaller and smaller until it ran out of oil. Oh, and they put the water pump inside the engine behind the timing chain.. so if that broke (and a lot did around 40,000 miles) all the water would mix in with your oil in the pan and again no lube and the engine blows. Chrysler denied ANY responsibility to everyone that complained (Do an internet search and see how many thousands of complaints there are) I took a financial bath with that hunk of garbage. It was right about then that I decided to buy an Accord for my wife, based on the opinions of various people that I talked to that had them. Best purchase decision I every made in my life regarding a vehicle.

So you can tell me that American made is just as good... and I'll agree since most of the Hondas and Toyotas and Subarus that we buy are, indeed, made right here in America... but American made does not necessarly have the same corporate mindset as foreign made... They care about their reputation. There's a reason that Ford, GM and Chrysler almost went bankrupt. The reason is that they were turning out ****ty cards, people saw it and started buying better quality from overseas makers. You want me to start buying American owned company vehicles again?? Let them change how they think and let them start making great cars again and I will. But till that time I'll stick with my Honda.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Spare and Ferm... I respect both of you for your vast mechanical knowledge, but this is one time I'm gonna disagree. You have to understand that I've been a proponent of BUY AMERICAN for most of my adult life... I would never own foreign born iron...

But in 2002 My wife bought a brand new Dodge Intrepid, with a 2.7 V6 engine in it..Great car, plenty of power, etc etc etc. It was great right up until, with less than 65,000 miles on it, the engine blew up. The dealership would not repair it under any sort of warentee, but would be happy to put in a rebuilt 2.7 for just over $4,800. I did a little searching and found out that this engine, which was the first ever 100% computer designed engine, had a long history of baking the oil because it ran so hot...and it had tiny oil galleys...so the oil galleys sludged up and got smaller and smaller until it ran out of oil. Oh, and they put the water pump inside the engine behind the timing chain.. so if that broke (and a lot did around 40,000 miles) all the water would mix in with your oil in the pan and again no lube and the engine blows. Chrysler denied ANY responsibility to everyone that complained (Do an internet search and see how many thousands of complaints there are) I took a financial bath with that hunk of garbage. It was right about then that I decided to buy an Accord for my wife, based on the opinions of various people that I talked to that had them. Best purchase decision I every made in my life regarding a vehicle.

So you can tell me that American made is just as good... and I'll agree since most of the Hondas and Toyotas and Subarus that we buy are, indeed, made right here in America... but American made does not necessarly have the same corporate mindset as foreign made... They care about their reputation. There's a reason that Ford, GM and Chrysler almost went bankrupt. The reason is that they were turning out ****ty cards, people saw it and started buying better quality from overseas makers. You want me to start buying American owned company vehicles again?? Let them change how they think and let them start making great cars again and I will. But till that time I'll stick with my Honda.

Not to sound cynical or anything, but your going to base your opinion of all domestics off of one bad apple? It would probably shock you to know that the POS engine(yes the 2.7L was a POS from the get go as I worked for DODGE when it came out and the techs all pointed out the faults from the get go and CHRYSLER did nothing) you quote was built and designed in a paretnership with MERCEDES BENZ? If you think back MERCEDES and CHRYSLER joined forces in 95, and in 96 the POWERTECH series engines started to come out. The 2.7L was one of them along with the redesigned 4.0L JEEP, and the 4.7L DODGE engine(used in the JEEP first). And not all 2.7L engines died, the majority of failures with them were due to extended oil change intervals plugging the oil galleys(that engine NEEDED the oil changed every 3K miles). I've seen them run well over 100K miles, and still look brand new inside. In the 70's the imports were far and away better than the domestic made cars, I will agree with this. But by the early 90's the domestic cars had become every bit as good if not better than many imports. Yes there are bad apples with any manufacturers as I could go on and on pointing out bad apples in ALL of them. Push comes to shove though as a whole, the domestic made cars are every bit as good now as any import.

[charlie_the_tuna]

hey ferm, maybe the newer americans can compete with the newer "imports" but i'm looking 10 or so years old. in my opinion the older (10-15 years) jap cars cant be beat. i just got rid of a 94 camry with over 175k and the motor and tranny were like brand new. i'm sorry i got rid of it but the boss wanted it gone. as far as i'm concerned you simply cant beat a 10 or 15 year old toyota. spare, i'm looking for something dependable for the wife to drive and something we can use for road trips. i'll be looking to replace my dakota soon at which point i'll probably look for a tahoe or yukon or suburban but for her i need something with good mileage especially since our regular just went over $4.05 per gallon. i'm as patriotic as the next guy and try to support american products and businesses when i can but i refuse to buy an inferior product to prove a point. if the days of the $50. dollar cars were still here i would run right out and buy a 78 caprice for $250. but if i can get a camry for the same price i'm going toyota all day long.

[charlie_the_tuna]

I guess this is the annual "Charlie wants another car thread"
hey spare, have i become that predictable? well, HA!! because it's now a bi-annual thread.

[THEFERMANATOR]

It's a bit newer than your looking at, but look at an 06+ MALIBU MAXX wagon if your interested in a wagon type. They get good milage, and are a pretty nice ride I think. It's the same drivetrain as my wifes PONTIAC G6, and it has been as trouble free as anything could be.

[spareparts]

I always know you can take what ever we dish out, Charlie.
AS far as import vs domestic, there are far too many variables to say one way or the other, personally I believe the general public has been brain washed into thinking foreign cars are better built than American, there are far too many issues at hand to make that statement one way or another, country of origin? Country of manufacture? Parent country of manufacture? The lines are so blurred its hard to define whats foreign made or whats domestic built. I just find it wrong that because a company is a traditional American company, its assumed that they are inferior product. This country gave the foreign manufactures plenty of ammo to make statements against our manufacturing with cars built in the 70's-80's. I won't even get my soap box out about union labor(UAW) or socialized auto manufactures(Italy, France). Like I said, I have a 99 Burb with over 200K, a 99E350 with over 340K, an 02 Burb with 100K, I could add up every expense I've paid out on all three vehicles for repairs and it would be less than one years payments on a new Toyota. Does Toyota make a good car? Yes, But so does Ford, GM, and Chrysler. They've all built turds and they've all built good cars. I have friends that own independent car shops and the first thing they tell you is the Toyota's and Honda's are what keeps them in business. That emblem on the hood of a Mercedes is a target sight, it takes aim on your wallet, BMW stands for "bust my wallet". Its not just the car, but the attitude of the customer, just like the boats we own. I tell some one their four stroke Yamaha needs $500 spent on it for service, they usually don't balk, I tell some one their 2 stroke Johnson needs $250 spent on it and you'd think I was trying to rape them. I've seen every brand of motor fail at one time or another, they all break, if they don't, they'll replace it with one that will(6.0L Ford Diesel). Biggest pos car I ever owned was a Volkswagon Dasher Station Wagon, even a minor repair exceeded the value of the car, followed by a Nissan Hardbody 4wd pickup, with a four cylinder on a good day it got 15 mpg(my E350 gets better), parts for the ignition and fuel injection were obsolete about four years after it was built. My 02 E150 died a horrible death at 105k with jumped timing chains. Had a friend that had a Mazda Miata, crank position sensor went out, the sensor cost more that the car was worth. Toughest car I've ever owned with out a doubt, was my 96 2wd Cherokee, its got over 200K and my sister drives it everyday. I can fix just about anything on it with a paperclip, screwdriver and an adjustable wrench. To say one brand does far better than the other is hard to justify, take each one independently and look at the history. Throw the consumer reports out the window along with JD Powers, they are all advertising companies, they work on cash. Look at overall repair cost and parts availability, look at service options, talk to mechanics in independent shops, look at what they drive. I always thought Hyundai or Kia was POS, got a friend that works on Fords for a living and thats what he drives. The only thing you can count on is if they build a car that's too good, they will stop building it, whether its foreign or domestic.

[charlie_the_tuna]

well how 'bout this. . . . i had a 1957 ford slabside pickup with a 300 six and 3 on the tree. fell apart with half a million miles on it but still ran. had 9 camaros and a couple V8 vegas. never a problem. hooked up with my wife and it was one nightmare american car after another. never had a complaint with the smallblock chevy but some of the other crap i've dealt with was another story. had a couple camrys. my last one ran like it just came off the showroom floor. tranny shifted like it was brand stankin new. my father in law never let my wife drive anything but american and that's where it all started. head gasket after head gasket after slipping tranny after soft cams after this after that. . . . . . it just never ended.
maybe the good old U S of A builds a fantastic car these days but i'll never know it. bring me back to the days of nothing but a motor and a battery under the hood. used to buy cars for under $500. bucks all the time. once bought a 69 camaro for $575. that was cleaner than sh!t. same car goes for around $15,000. these days.
nope, my wifes next daily's gonna be a jap car. she loves her toyota mini-van but the thing drinks gas like a 600 pound irishman. my next one'll be a big chevy with a smallblock.
think about why some of the best motors ever built are no longer made. america made some motors that you could add sand to the oil and get another million miles. the 226 slant six. the chevy 283. just couldnt stop 'em. they wanted their motors to die so the comsumer would keep buying cars. problem is, it worked too good and they started producing nothing but sh!t.

[spareparts]

I read somewhere that the quality of automobiles, vs the cost, vs the available technology, vs ... you get the idea. That the best cars ever made by that criteria were built in the late 50's early 60's in the USA.


BTW, I think Ferm may be on to something about that Malibu wagon, my cousin worked at a Saturn dealership till they closed up, swore the Saturn version of the bu was one heck of a car

[willy]

In that foreign domestic vain I want to tell you guys about something that happened the other day.
I wanted a rear wheel drive car and I started checking around.
Though it turns out I cannot afford to do it as I have a current lease, I found one of the greatest cars I have ever sat my arse into.
Are you ready?
Chrysler.
Dodge Charger, Road and Track Edition, small V8, rear wheel drive, and all kinds of handling and going and braking enhancements.
Phenomenal, would take it over any BMW, Audi etc. I have driven during my search.
Handles like a nice new Corvette, smooth as silk going down the road. Tight, no squeaks no rattles. Dead quiet until you open up that beautiful engine and hear the nicest engine growl this side of a Ferrari.
go into a hard turn at 50 mph and she runs through flat as a pancake without the slightest bit of drama.
The car dealer had a death grip on the seat until he realized I know what the heck I am doing and I ran it through about 20 minutes of mixed back bumpy road and smooth hard cornering.
Very comfortable room for five adults, all the electronic amazement a man can handle with 1960's engine power and torque with 2012 European sedan handling.
I pleaded the case with the CEO, but with two in college it is not going to happen for me.
Been a week and still cannot stop thinking about the shear pleasure of that vehicle.
With 19 city and 25 highway mileage to boot.
Sorry to highjack the thread CT but needed to vent.

[Destroyer]

Not to sound cynical or anything, but your going to base your opinion of all domestics off of one bad apple? It would probably shock you to know that the POS engine(yes the 2.7L was a POS from the get go as I worked for DODGE when it came out and the techs all pointed out the faults from the get go and CHRYSLER did nothing) you quote was built and designed in a paretnership with MERCEDES BENZ? If you think back MERCEDES and CHRYSLER joined forces in 95, and in 96 the POWERTECH series engines started to come out. The 2.7L was one of them along with the redesigned 4.0L JEEP, and the 4.7L DODGE engine(used in the JEEP first). And not all 2.7L engines died, the majority of failures with them were due to extended oil change intervals plugging the oil galleys(that engine NEEDED the oil changed every 3K miles). I've seen them run well over 100K miles, and still look brand new inside. In the 70's the imports were far and away better than the domestic made cars, I will agree with this. But by the early 90's the domestic cars had become every bit as good if not better than many imports. Yes there are bad apples with any manufacturers as I could go on and on pointing out bad apples in ALL of them. Push comes to shove though as a whole, the domestic made cars are every bit as good now as any import.

Well, I'm 67, I've been driving since 1961. That's over 50 years of driving. Up to the Honda all I"ve ever owned is American vehicles. I've paid my dues. So no, I'm not basing my opinion on only one vehicle.. There have been several along the line.. My fathers 84? Buick that ate head gaskets every 6 months. My friends Ford mustang with a 5.0 engine that loved rear ends. My 92 Dodge Dynasty with a great (3.3L) engine married to a tranny that would only go about 70,000 miles before needing to be rebuilt, my sons Chevy Baretta that blew clutches on a regular basis.... the list is endless... and I still refused to buy foreign born during all of that... Right up until my wifes Intrepid with the 2.7. The rest is history. I found out that what millions of people were saying about the Honda Accord was 100% correct. It's simply a great car.

And yes, I know all about Chrysler being owned by Daimler/Benz. As a matter of fact, that was one of my reasons for going with the Honda. I figured that since most auto companys were international anyways, it really didn't matter that much what brand I bought. I know that technically if a car maker has a foreign headquarters then some money leaves our shores..and that gives me pause to think, but we still have the Honda and she (my wife) still loves it. And I'd like to point out that my 98 Jeep Cherokee with it's inline 4.0L engine is still in my possession, (Which was an engine originally designed by AMC btw) It's run almost daily and I still get an honest 20 mpg highway. In my opinion it's one of the two greatest 6 cyl engines ever built, the other being the Chrysler 225 ci slant 6. I haven't eschewed American iron totally, but I have had to rethink my opinions about buying it exclusively. :beer:

[randlemanboater]

Back to your original question CTT...my Mom and Uncle have both had real good luck with Subarus and real bad luck with Volvos.

Of course the Ford Volvos may be better.