v20 top cap removal

[CharlestonSC]

I have a 1989 v20 center console
I have had it for several years and the floor is getting softer so I am going to take the top cap off and refiberglass some new wood in the floor, and check transom and stringers.
Not quite sure if the top comes of as easy as just taking the screws out of top half under the rub rail,
Any advice would be great.
Thanks
Derek

[RidgeRunner]

You got it. After the console, fuel tank hatch and all the rigging is removed. Someone on here hung their top cap from a tree recently. Wellcraft used a thickened putty on top of the stringers and layed the cap into it to bond the two together. I made some small wedges of wood to tap in place between the top of the stringers and the bottomside of the liner. I started in the front with the hoisting. I hope this helps.

[captpete13]

not sure about the center console but I removed the cap on my fathers project v20 cuddy. You would want to remove the console,seats or anything else on the deck. Also remove the fuel tank hatch. The deck is bonded to the stringers and transom. You will need some good pry bars and possibly a sawzall with a long blade to cut it loose. The cap is very heavy and very awkward to lift. You will need a lot of help or a good hoist with some slings. It is a little harder at first but it is much easier to make repairs once its out of the way

[Stillrunning]

Just remove the CC, the screws, and the two top bolts of the motor. We used a pulley in a tree and a truck to hoist it out. If you use a pulley in a tree make sure the limb is strong enough to hold the weight (don't ask me how I know that). Hoist it up and double check for any additional wires that might still be attached.

[CharlestonSC]

Thanks
Captpete13
Do you have any other pictures of the back side at the transom?
Do you have to cut it away from the transom or can you just pry it apart?
I plan to use a forklift to hoist the lid off how did you get the straps under the lid as I see in your pictures?

[captpete13]

if you pull the transom cap off you can probably get a sawzall blade down there. The one I did had a pretty rotten transom so I cut without disregard. Pry it slowly to minimize gelcoat cracking. I pryed the deck up and set it on blocks of wood to get the straps around it. Here are a few more pics. I dont know if they help any.

[CharlestonSC]

What is the best way to take off the rub rail?
Mine has rope in the middle of it, I guess the screws are under that.
Just wondering on best way for removal and reinstall.
Thanks

[awthacker]

Start by removing the endcaps at the transom. Then just pull the rope out starting at one end. It will probably come out a lot easier than it will go back in. Under the rope you should find a screw about every 4 inches, or so. Remove them all. On my boat there were also screws beneath the rubrail. When you put the cap back on make sure to seal it up good with one or more tubes of 3M 5200 before reinstalling the rubrail. Fill the seam as well as all old screw holes.

[CharlestonSC]

thanks AW
What did you use for the gel coat repairs?
How many coats of paint did you end up using?

[CharlestonSC]

New pictures of the cap removal process. Tipped it up and got the back part to seperate from the transom with out cracking. the bottom looks great, and I see why the floor got soft, looks like someone or wellcraft cut 4 big holes under the center console to be able to attach it with a threaded screw vs wood screws but didn't seal the holes. Also found a big empty spot under the front seat of the center console, never used looks like I can put another fule tank for added travel.
here are a few pictures, thanks for help.


http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i323/wandogofishing/IMG01258-20110304-1742.jpghttp://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i323/wandogofishing/IMG01263-20110304-1757.jpg

[captpete13]

Thats great. Having a forklift at your disposal really makes things easier. Now the fun begins. Cutting,grinding,fiberglassing,more grinding more fiberglassing. But it is worth it. keep the pics comming.

[CharlestonSC]

question on replacing the wood in the floor.
I see I can cut around the edges from the bottom side and take out the bad plywood so if I coat the new wood in resin and stick it back in would it be best to use a new piece of fiberglass woven over the wood or just use the piece I cut out and just glass the edges I cut back?

[CharlestonSC]

Also what are the choices when I put the floor back in as far as attaching it back to the stringers and bulk heads? Looks like they used some thick fluffy resin then put the floor in, others have said to use 5200?
What do you think is best?

[captpete13]

when I put the new wood in I "glued" it in place with resin that I thickened with West system adhesive filler. I applied it with a notched trowel. Then I put a fresh layer of woven roving over the whole thing. When I put the floor back in I used West 610. But I used a lot. I think 8 tubes. 5200 would probably work fine too. West offers empty calk tubes that you can mix up your own thickened epoxy and put into the tube.

[CharlestonSC]

Did you remove the thick resin on top of the stringers that filled the gap to the floor? or did you just put your resin on top or that?

[captpete13]

I removed all the old stuff. The stuff that was on my boat was sticky and a real mess to work around so I got rid of it all

[Richie Rich]

definitely remove the old..sand down the surrounding area..mix up some new resin with cabosil and milled fibers then re-glass the whole thing....5200 sounds easy, but resin such as epoxy or vinyl ester is much more stronger than 5200...by a long shot.

[spareparts]

this is what boat builders use
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=51833&familyName=Plexus+Bondline+MA530+Adhesive

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=51829&familyName=Plexus+MA320+Adhesive

[CharlestonSC]

Thanks for all the input, got the lid off and to my surprise everything looks pretty good, the top of the transom has a small amount of rot, so I was thinking of cutting the bad wood out and using dowel pins to marry the old and new pieces together then reglassing? Then add some extra support for my T-top to plant into.
Any thought on using normal fiberglass resin vs. vinyl ester vs. epoxy?

[Richie Rich]

For making new parts or cosmetic repairs, its OK...but for repairs to transoms and anywhere you need really good secondary bonding and it needs to be waterproof, I would not use anything but VE or Epoxy...especially when glassing over wood. Thats why cold molded wooden boats use epoxy, not polyester.

[CharlestonSC]

So VE is about $30 cheaper a gal than epoxy from a company in FL called US composites. Is it worth the extra money for epoxy?

[Richie Rich]

Thats really a personal choice based on what you're more comfortable working with.....some guys like working with resin and accelerator drops and playing with working time/cures etc.....and some guys like working with epoxy which you mix exact ratios the same way every time...you just use different hardener speeds to give you more or less time, ie, slow, medium and fast....I personally like epoxy and don't mind the extra cost as its the strongest and most waterproof resin out there.....but VE is very good as well. There are some caveats with both.....VE has a shelf life...maybe 6 or 9 months once opened.....so if you don't use it, you may lose it...so then what will it cost you? Epoxy on the other hand can last for years...but some cheap epoxies can have an amine blush that migrates to the surface and keeps gelcoat from sticking to it...so most people paint over epoxy...but it can be gelcoated if you get the right kind and know how to apply it....Using a good quality epoxy with slow hardener like MAS, System 3, etc you can gel coat over it.......but for transom rebuilding with wood that's not finished anyway, I'd use epoxy.......for fixing exposed areas on the gunwale or hull sides that require gelcoat matching and bonding, I'd use VE......just my preferences.....many guys use either/or with great success...what are you comfortable with?

Check the prices of epoxy from places like Defender.com in CT or Boat Builder Central in FL...tough to find cheaper prices for name brand products.

[RidgeRunner]

Man you have come a long way fast.
I used the VE for all my repairs back in 1998. Working in 100 degree heat it is very challenging to get the correct amount of MEKP hardener added to the resin to give yourself the proper working time. I tossed a lot of resin than kicked in the bucket. That ain't cheap. I have tried epoxy since then and liked it. Downside, some of the bi-axial and tri-axial fiberglass fabrics wet out better with VE. Ask the sales rep. they can help there. You can use epoxy over PE or VE but you cannot get the VE or PE to bond properly to epoxy.
Your floor, I would cut out and prep (grind) the area that needs new coring from the bottom side, trial fit a new piece then glue it in place with some slightly thickened epoxy/resin, let it kick, grind anything that looks to be too high or shiny with some 40 grit then put some type of fiberglass over the entire repair with 4" +/- overlap.
The mud they used to bond the liner to the stringers needs to come off. It looks like nearly all the putty stuck to the stringers on yours too. 5200 will not work to bond the two back together IMO. It will have a tendency to sag. Spare gave you a link to the stuff Wellcraft used.
If you are going the T-top route, what will you do with the rodholders built onto the sides of the console? I discovered them to be in the way of mounting the top on mine.

[CharlestonSC]

I am going with VE as I think this will do a fine job and doing the repairs in this weather should give me a bit more time, I am using US composites
they also sell a epoxy putty that will work to glue the new floor in and stick the liner back to the stringers. Mine has a Ttop the rod holders make me have to use a fork lift to hoist up the top stright up over the console to get it off, the ttop is one of the main reasons I am redoing the floor as it was getting very loose.
One more question in on the floor of my sport 20 is grey if I do some minor crack repair do you think paint is the best way to cover my repairs or try to tint gel coat grey to cover it up?
Thank for the input and I'll post some new picutres soon.

[Richie Rich]

Well, since you're using VE, gelcoat should bond well....I would try and match the gelcoat first and see how close you can get..and ask USC if they have gelcoat compatible/same brand with the VE you're buying..if the color you mix doesn't match well, you can always still paint over it. In either case, matching gelcoat or paint with an aged surface will take some patience and skill....touch up refinishing without repainting the whole area is one of the hardest things to do...good luck! Post some pics when you're done.