new to forum - my V-20 project

[nepatsfanatic]

Hi Guys, just joined the forum after spending much time as a guest. I am amazed at the wealth of knowledge here. I just picked up a V-20 project boat with no motor. I also picked up an 01 Evinrude ficht 225, its powerhead was completely replaced in 03. Its in beautiful shape and I hope to stand run it this weekend. From what I've read it should really be a blast. I think the hull is a 77', ID is WEL00772M77B-V20. The boat is in decent shape overall, needs TLC and paint, floor is solid, stringers solid where I can reach. Transom is another question, I've done the mallet test and have a couple of small areas that sound questionable (few inches only). Where it meets the stringers is rock solid, no cracks anywhere, engine mount area is good, above both stringers and further to the gunwales sounds maybe delaminated a little on both sides (exterior only). I am wondering the best way to test whats in there?. The motor is a 25" and I'm planning to fill in the notch, its a 20" set up now. I'm wondering if I should bite the bullet and just redo the transom completely, the motor is 500+ pounds and the HP will be tough on it. I looked into Seacast and wondered about the weight versus marine ply?, or maybe cpes epoxy injection?. The boat has twin gas tanks, one each side at rear, I'm guessing 20-25 gals each which is considerable weight too. I'd be grateful for your thoughts and ideas, this is my first Wellcraft and Evinrude, had Johnson's and Merc's previously on various rigs. My boating time is 99% in the ocean and that's where me and this beauty are headed someday.

Glad to be here!
Steve

[chumbucket]

Welcome to the site Steve. Nice to see a fellow Pats fan. :party:
I have zero experience with the Seacast product. I have worked on a previous boat by cutting the outer skin off the transom and re-doing it with epoxy laminated plywood. It really wasn't too bad of a project.
I'm sure you've already searched the site for others that have done this project. You should also check out www.classicseacraft.com , www.classicmako.com , and www.classicaquasport.com
You'l find a lot more info on those sites as well. Take some pics and show us whatcha got.

[BRIELLY]

I wouldn't try the cpes method. It looks like it "may" work on a small boat but I would't want to risk it on a v. You can either remove the entire cap where you will have access to the transom and stringers, cut the rear portion of the cap to get new wood into the transom, or try seacast or arjay. I have no experience with seacast but I did the arjay pourable transom this spring and its holding up very well.

[charlie_the_tuna]

and please let me appologize in advance because my jets will be taking the division this season. repeat after me; AFC EAST CHAMPIONS, NEW YORK JETS!

[macojoe]

Welcome to the site.

You can drill a few small (1/4) holes on the inside of transom and see what comes out? Clean wood you are great, dirt you rotted.
You can also just put the motor on there and when tilted up, grab the tail of the motor and lift up, cracking or movement you need transom, n cracking sound or movement you good to go.

Can also get a Jack Plate to lift motor up the 5" so you are able to run the 25" shaft with out filling the transom. If the transom is in good shape.

Gas tanks are 20 gal each.

[nepatsfanatic]

Thanks for the warm welcome guys. GO PATS Chumbucket!, camp starts soon. I've added a pic of the old girl (hopefully!) and highlighted where transom sounds iffy, only on outer skin which is odd. I reefed on it a little this evening and there is more movement than I will ever be happy with so I think I'm gonna go hog wild and do the whole thing with new ply and resin. I am determined to make this boat awesome again. Do you guys have recommendations for a glass and resin supplier?, if so please advise. Brielly the arjay is new to me so I'll check that out too, sounds like a good repair method. Did you do all the work from the cap access? I've seen a few different ways done nice, and successfully, I think I'll be okay doing the work from outside by removing the outer skin if I need too. I would be grateful for any pointers as to where to cut, more importantly where not to cut!, wish me luck! Steve.

[nepatsfanatic]

Hi macojoe, thanks for your reply and welcoming me aboard. I did a little wrestling on the transom and it definitely has movement, my motor stand is two sheets of 3/4 ply with a few screws and there is no comparison, night and day. I want to make a real nice job of this boat and do it right, gotta have solid transom. Is there an advantage to the jack plate system or is it just to save the notch work? Thanks for the tank info, are they standard on that model? I'm wondering what the range will be with the 225. I see you run a four stroke 225, economy must be better, how do you like it?

[nepatsfanatic]

we can all dream charlie the tuna....apparently you more than most!

[Destroyer]

we can all dream charlie the tuna....apparently you more than most!

LOL .... SCORE!!!!!!! :beer:



PS....Aren't those the NJ Jets? Seems to me I recall them playing in NJ Giants Stadium in East Rutherford, New Jersey .... :head:

[BRIELLY]

Did you do all the work from the cap access? I've seen a few different ways done nice, and successfully, I think I'll be okay doing the work from outside by removing the outer skin if I need too. I would be grateful for any pointers as to where to cut, more importantly where not to cut!, wish me luck! Steve.

I rented the longest chainsaw I could get, pulled off the aluminum cap and and started cutting. About 8 hours later it was ready to be filled. If you do the other method avoid cutting the outside skin. Professionals cut the rear section of the cap off and replace the wood and skin from the inside.

[macojoe]

The jack plate just allows you to add the 25 with out filing the transom, but if you are going new, you will not need.

Tanks are stock and one size

I sold my V20 3 years ago, and bought a 23' Sea Ox wa, thats what I just put the 225 4 stroke on, and it weights 600 pounds +!! Not close for a V20!

IMO your 225 is way over kill, and not needed, a 150 will have all the power you will ever need. with out the weight and gas your going to use.

Also make sure you get a good bilge pump and a second one for back up, that boat is before self bailing decks and all water goes to the bilge.

Last unless you are a real good glass guy, I would go from the inside and leave the out side alone. Or use the pourable stuff.
I am not a glass guy at all so I am no real help there.

Good Luck

[nepatsfanatic]

Wow, I think that is a pretty quick method to get in there with the chainsaw, plus it saves a ton of time trying to patch it all together again. I agree that cutting of the outer skin really is not cool, it must compromise the hull integrity pretty badly and is probably not the way to go. Do you have any pics of the repair as you were doing it? Did you remove all wood coast to coast or leave good areas alone?. I'd be real grateful for supplier info and materials type used, quantity, cost, etc,. It looks to me that I would have to cut a portion of the rear cap or remove the entire top of the boat and also the liner that forms the floor, etc., to get access to the inner transom skin. Your method is sounding better and better!.

[macojoe]

What I know about the pourable stuff is that you need to get all would out of there, cause it will not stick to the pourable stuff.

The issue with cutting the out side of a V20 it that is has a curved transom and you don't want to lose the curve by cutting out the skin and having to figure out how to get it back toghter the right.

All you have to do is cut the back of the cap to gain access to the transom.

[nepatsfanatic]

Thanks macojoe, I was concerned about cutting the outer skin and the more research I've done I think your right, it's not the way to go. To get to the inner is a lot of work but seems the correct way if doing ply replacement. Brielly also suggested pourable and he is pleased with his own results using it. I am grateful for your thoughts, I'm glad to be here amongst experience and just want to get it right. The 225 was a steal at 2k with all controls, gauges, SST prop and low hours. I was looking for 150 - 175, but no luck combined with slight compulsive disorder lead to the ficht. I hope its not too heavy for the boat in the waves!. The back of the boat seems very open to water from rear, is there a mod to improve that or not necessary? I see people doing all kinds of stuff with closed cell foam and wondered if I could improve rear buoyancy in any way by using some in the side bilges. I will definitely set up a couple of big pumps to be safe, any recommendations?

[nepatsfanatic]

good to know, I did see the curve and actually thought it may be from fatigue! I'm liking the pourable more and more. I am very handy and mechanical, but not a glass guy, limited experience only. Forgot to mention... your rig is beautiful, no doubt awesome for the big seas.

[nepatsfanatic]

Well.... I cut of the transom cap tonight and was crushed to find rotten plywood mush is all I have in there. I also found that some previous hackery had been performed with bondo, resin ,mat, etc. I could literally scoop out most of the wood with a spoon!. I drilled a few small test holes on inner skin and after drill penetrated the fiberglass....nothing!. I'm amazed how rigid this transom feels considering its hollow! Oh well got that of my chest, I'm gonna have at it tomorrow with the spoon followed by the chainsaw. Arjay looks real good for this project, will be searching for nearest supplier to MA, any suggestions?

[Alex]

I just replaced the rotted transom in my wellcraft sun hatch.Looks just like your boat but its not a v20-its 19 feet 6 inches.I still dont know what the difference in boats are besides length.My transom looks identical.I did everything with only removing the top piece where the outboard hangs.I also cut the sides where the bump molding begins.Takes a long time-use a compressor to blow the loose wood out.The long steel rod shaped like an L thats used on a driveway gate comes in very handy to dig the wood out.I heated up the end cherry red with torches then formed a chisel end .Worked great.good luck.

[Destroyer]

The long steel rod shaped like an L thats used on a driveway gate comes in very handy to dig the wood out.I heated up the end cherry red with torches then formed a chisel end .Worked great.good luck.

That's great tip Alex...thanks for the info. :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

[nepatsfanatic]

Nice one Alex!, very grateful for the tip, I will definitely make up one of your "super chisels", I have some 1" square bar that would probably be good for this. I was amazed how bad the rot was in mine, it went right up the whole transom into the areas where tow hooks are. Are you planning to do pourable?, I saw a guy somewhere who did a great job using ply strips cut to the thickness of the transom and stacked them laid flat one piece at a time using epoxy. From what I've seen its unusual, but sounds feasible, the guy is a structural engineer and figured this would be strong, and I guess retains properties of original ply transom without having to tear whole boat apart. Must have been cheaper for the materials than straight pourable too. I am thinkingg Arjay pourable for mine, seems to be popular and successful, I haven't heard any horror stories either!. Do you have pictures?, I'd love to see em. Thanks again, Steve.

[Destroyer]

I saw a guy somewhere who did a great job using ply strips cut to the thickness of the transom and stacked them laid flat one piece at a time using epoxy. From what I've seen its unusual, but sounds feasible, the guy is a structural engineer and figured this would be strong, and I guess retains properties of original ply transom without having to tear whole boat apart.

Laminate structures are stronger than solids. That's why plywood is so strong. By crossing the grains of the different layers you achieve tremendous strength. An 8 layer laminate with the grains all going in the same direction will be almost 50% stronger than a solid block of wood of the same dimension, but cross the grains in that same laminate and you get a board that is over 15 times stronger than a solid.

[Richie Rich]

NEpats ...post it on boat builder central ...they have a very large and knowledgable crew building and repairing boats and there pricing for materials is pretty good too....I have used them on several occasions....they have a boat designer on staff for technical questions and they list a ton of how to tutorials as well...good luck with the project.

[nepatsfanatic]

That is pretty incredible Destroyer, I am going to revisit the whole idea again, I was pretty much set on Arjay but am concerned that it has less flex and would stress rest of hull as a result. The geniuses that gave us this wonderful hull probably figured a little flex in the transom would act as a somewhat shock absorber.

Ritchie Rich thank you, I'll check out that site for sure.

[nymack66]

I did my transom using Arjay its not difficult at all you can do it, I did cut the outer skin off because the wood was not completely rotten and would have been a PIA to remove. One of the most important step before pouring the arjay is to seal every pin hole since this stuff will seep through during the pour.
Be sure to re-enforce the inside of both walls with cloth and resin to an extent you KNOW it stronger than before. The inside skin after cleaning was very thin and huge holes could be seen as shown in the pictures
I cut down my transom to 20" from a 25" note I also lower the drain hole so it never lodges water in the bilge area.
http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz142/nymack66/Transom%20Work%20Removal%20of%20all%20old%20rotten %20wood/1.jpg
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http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz142/nymack66/Transom%20Work%20Removal%20of%20all%20old%20rotten %20wood/DSCF0041.jpg

Skin Back on !
http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz142/nymack66/Transom%20Prep%20for%20Arjay/1.jpg
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Home run ?
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At last !!
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Engines On
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc357/amackhrandilal/New%20Trailer/10.jpg

No Cap nice and clean
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc357/amackhrandilal/Cowling%20Project/decal1.jpg

[JTinker]

Nice decals :clap:

JT

[nepatsfanatic]

that's a real nice repair job!, how much did it cost for all the materials? I think I need about 13 gals of Arjay for mine. Decals are sweet!

[nymack66]

I use 3 pails (15 gallons ) however I did spill about 2 gallons ! Where are you located ? Here is where I purchase my Arjay http://www.fiberglassservices.com/ excellent customer service and super fast shipment to my job ...Here is the price list from there catalog (Download the PDF)
ARJAY 6011
ARJ-PT-104 Gallon $ 35.36 hardener including
ARJ-PT-105 5 Gallon $128.13 hardener included
As you can see very cheap , My in law is trucking up his stuff via 95 North to the BRONX this Saturday and Next Saturday (two trips) if you like purchase it drop ship to me in Orlando and I will send it with him, we arrange a meet point and bingo ..PM me if its something you consider ...
My address is known on this board so this is no scam ...

Guys as for the Decals Ebay !

[nepatsfanatic]

thanks for the offer of help nymack66 but I think I'm OK. I have a buddy who's heading down to collect his stuff in a few weeks...split up with his gal in Deland and now lives next town over from me. Otherwise would definitely have gone for it and I'm very grateful for the offer, I'm about 3 hrs to Bronx. Thanks for the info, the Arjay is cheap compared to others, I've only heard good stuff about it too. I think I can do mine completely thru the cap, I can see on yours it was not possible, my ply is more like a paste! The more I look at your pictures the more impressed I am. Are you a glass guy?. Nice touch dropping the bilge drain, seems ridiculous to have an inch+ of water stuck in there at all times. The rub rail is a nice look too.

Grateful
Steve

[Road King Cole]

just a belated "welcome to the site" from another pats fan...:clap:

[nepatsfanatic]

thanks Road King Cole, this forum is the best, I'm confident I can rebuild my V with advice from the crew here. Here's to a great season!:beer:

[awthacker]

NYMack, where did you get the rub rail? Is it just something standard from the marine store or is there something more specific I should get for my '82 V? I was thinking I'd to silicone it real good, then try & replace the rail. This picture you can see how the old rail was poorly installed when it was replaced.

[shaneburris74]

Welcome to the site! These guys are great. Unfortunately my V20 project has taken a turn, but I still enjoy reading the site. I will actively look for a Center Console in the spring when I purchase another boat.
I started my transom repair from the top cap with a chain saw as well. The biggest tip I can give you is to get a big chainsaw. I have the 25" transom and when you figure in the corners (where the transom meets the bottom and sides) you need atleast 30". I couldn't find one of those at my local rental place. Your up in the NE so you probably have better access to one up there. You'll be surprised at how hard it is to remove some of that wood in areas of a "bad" transom. Its relatively hard to cut into the skin while skimming the sides of it and removing the "heart" of the transom...I never reached the bottom or sides (due to length of chainsaw) so I can't speak to that.
Also I had settled on the Nida-Core product for my project. I believe their website is Nida-core.com. I think you can find a local supplier there. It seemed to be the most accessible and affordable.
Good luck to you. Dont forget your Personal Protective Equipment!!!