The V 20 hits 50mph tops, but any faster ?

[bgreene]

Fifty miles per hr is plenty of speed, but anyone ever find a way to run one of these much faster ? Say 60 mph ?

Come on you V20 " purists" ...........live a little !!

[Bygracealone]

Let's wait to hear what Craigan's top speed will be with my old V (dually) and the 225 on that bracket... I bet she'll fly.

[kheid]

never 60 but on a smooth day out of the river i hit 53.3 on the gps !!!!!!! felt very fast and smooth !!!!!!! .....I only went straight , no turns !

[THEFERMANATOR]

never 60 but on a smooth day out of the river i hit 53.3 on the gps !!!!!!! felt very fast and smooth !!!!!!! .....I only went straight , no turns !

I've had my HYDRA-SPORTS that fast with my 225(or at least that's what the cowling says:zip:), and it weighs about 800 pounds more in just hull weight. I believe 60 is possible, but the deep vee hull has drawbacks at those speeds. A deep vee hull will continue to climb up the faster you go so there is less boat in the water the faster you push her. The problem lies in the fact that at a certain speed there is so little of the boat hull in the water that she eventually becomes very unstable.

[RABBITFISH]

I have pushed the limit with my 225 Yamaha once or twice and it ran up to 54 mph, by gps, however it was not very reassuring the way the boat felt under me....It felt like at any minute it would lose control...much more stable around the 40 mph range.....:fam:

[cterrebonne]

im sure a single 300x on a adj jackplate with it propped out for top end would run 60. strong engine. i think though that going over 65 with out any serious amount of hp would not be possible.

[kraken]

are all of you guys running outboards only? I havent got mine into the water yet but the engine is the merc 470 with 170 hp. Seems that motor would push a 20 footer a bit faster than 55.

[RidgeRunner]

I ain't affraid.
I have a 2.4L Merc 200 pushing 48mph on a bracket. The boat is heavy for a lot of speed but she feels great. Turns are not a problem at 48 she still has some edges in the water. In a few weeks my CC gets a 3.0L 250EFI. I won't know top end for a few weeks (break-in) but I think it might be close to 60. I did a similar swap on a 22 Pursuit Cuddy and went from 41 to 55mph. Doing it to cruise 40 at about 4000 rpm.
My 20 has some hook built into the chines, all of them probably do. I removed about 50% when the hull was flipped and spent countless hours blocking and sanding. I would guess the round keel at the stern will probably give a bit of chine walk at ??? speed. With no real pad to run on I don't really know. Maybe it will rise to the innermost chines and just fly.
These boats sold, virtually unchanged, for how many years? The reason is that they handle water better than most, everyone love the lines and they offer good versatility.IMO
A 300x:love:That would be cool. You could never be accused of underpowering. Boat Insurance? Call Lords of London...

[cterrebonne]

are all of you guys running outboards only? I havent got mine into the water yet but the engine is the merc 470 with 170 hp. Seems that motor would push a 20 footer a bit faster than 55.

i can promise you that 470 wont get you past 55. on radar or gps.

and about the v-20 chine walking, it would probably ride like a checkmate or a baja (if im thinking of the older 80's v hull ski boats) where was it feels like the front end is hanging out there and it will rock but not too bad. not if the weight dist is all messed up then who knows. maybe a up and a hard roll to the right.

[RidgeRunner]

Hope not. It would be a shame to come this far with this project to see it spread all over terrebonne bay. (Captain included) Baby steps.. but that image will be burned into my mind from here on. Thanks:beer:

[Bonita Dan]

With the old 3.7l(in newer condition) I was able to pull off 52mph on the gps,light load,top folded up,trimed out to the max,etc and it didn't really chime walk but there wasn't much of the boat in the water. Didn't really feel unsafe either just very light on an extremely calm day. With the new tricked out plant we're talking about speeds up to if not in excess of 60mph so we'll see what happens and I'll keep yall updated when it happens. I hope the old girl can handle it but if there are no more posts from me,well ya know what happened then. Bye,Bye Bobo!

[CaptJ]

When my dad bought my boat brand new right out of the box with the Yamaha 225 in 1989, I was pushin high 50's. Talkin' 57-58mph. According to the speedo. Don't think it ever hit the 60 mark. I have heard they called that model 225 "a cheater" motor because she was pushin more like 235 hps. I am sure one of you guys would know if this is true or if it was just a rumor. Wish I knew more about motors in 1999 when I traded the 225 in for the 200, would have never done it.

Boat use to rip. Now she is old and water logged but I still love her so much. Had a great day with my girls on the water Friday fishing and clamming. Full tank of gas four year old, two tear old, wife and me. With the '99 Yamaha 200 and the Bimini kite up and the fastest I could go with flat calm water was 47mph. Trimmed to the max and pushin only 5000 rpms (the highest I could get them). I think I have to much prop on her.

[Genie Aye]

I have a 200HO E-tec on the back of mine--with 60 GA of fuel and my average load for fishing and 3 people--I have seen 53.6 on GPS--and she is feeling a bit light.

I had a 98 Yamaha 225 and it did not run this fast--not even close--upper 40's--and yes it was proped right.

I pull no punches and tell it like it is.

[RidgeRunner]

Repowered last weekend with the 250 EFI Merc. Break-in forthcoming... Can't wait to see what it does. Someone who I respect for knowing what fast really is told me mid 50's. I was hoping for more. Anybody want to take a Guess as to how fast. Maybe we could start a pool. The proceeds could go to charity. Previous best was 47.9 MPH with the old 200 carb 2.4L wound up to 6300 rpm.
The boat---

1256

[RidgeRunner]

I have a 200HO E-tec on the back of mine--with 60 GA of fuel and my average load for fishing and 3 people--I have seen 53.6 on GPS--and she is feeling a bit light.

I had a 98 Yamaha 225 and it did not run this fast--not even close--upper 40's--and yes it was proped right.

I pull no punches and tell it like it is.


That's impressive.. That HO must have some real juice. How many HP does that motor produce?

[nipper]

52.8 mph. Your boat looks awesome!

[RidgeRunner]

52.8 mph. Your boat looks awesome!

Thanks Nipper, lots of $$$ and time on this one.

I got you down for 52.8 MPH.

Anyone else?
Replies will be counted over the next week and I will send a buck per reply to Franco's Fundraiser up to $100. The winner will get either an Outback Steakhouse Gift Certificate for $50 bucks or they could plunge the same $50 back to Franco's cause.

[nymack66]

55 mph

[THEFERMANATOR]

Hopefully it runs better than JACKMANS 225 HONDA. He only managed low 30's with his as the added transom weight made the boat run like crap.

[RidgeRunner]

Hopefully it runs better than JACKMANS 225 HONDA. He only managed low 30's with his as the added transom weight made the boat run like crap.
I have you down for the low 30's.
Doubt it. The 225 Honda is still 100 lbs heavier dry and the Honda is not reknown for their blistering performance. A good running 150 2smoke would outdo the Honda.
What is the top end on the 235+ on the HydraSport?

[THEFERMANATOR]

I have you down for the low 30's.
Doubt it. The 225 Honda is still 100 lbs heavier dry and the Honda is not reknown for their blistering performance. A good running 150 2smoke would outdo the Honda.
What is the top end on the 235+ on the HydraSport?

I'm swinging a 15 1/2" prop, but I've hit 53 with 2 people and a half tank of fuel while sucking down close to 28 GPH. Once you port a big looper a little bit they can go through some fuel. I an't complain though as I can cruise it at 3800 running 21-23 knots burning roughly 10-11 GPH, not to mention the power that she has to get on plane. I'm sure I could get it to almost 55 with a better prop, but the HYDRA-SPORTS 2000CC was never meant to break 50, it has a hook in the transom that acts like trim tabs and it plants the bow around 45 hard and takes ALOT of engine trim to break it free.

[RidgeRunner]

I hear you. I have seen a major increase in speed before with a engine swap similar to the one I have done here. But the hulls were different.
The 250 EFI has a lot more torque than the old 2.4. I suspect that you, of all people, know about torque.. The fuel burn on the EFI is 30 or 32GPH. ONE hour of WOT and turn back to the marina... LOL
Just for kicks and since this ain't going as well as planned I will kick you in for mid-30's and also 53MPH. If you win you have to take me to dinner with the Gift Card..

Folks it ain't going to cost you nothin to reply. I am kicking in the dough and a gift card or whatever.

MJ -- Bad idea?

[RWilson2526]

I'm guessing 54 mph. I'm feelin lucky

[RidgeRunner]

I'm guessing 54 mph. I'm feelin lucky
Thanks for your cooperation..

So far we have 35,52.8,53,54 MPH

In the Guess the top end Contest. 20v CC 250EFI Merc on Bracket-How Fast? I'm kicking $100 to the fundraiser and $50 to the forum member closest to the actual MPH. If you don't reply you can't win.

[captpete13]

I'm going to have to say 56mph, trimmed out balls to the wall.

[spareparts]

I'll be the optimist and say 59, if you can't get it to run that fast, then let me drive :sly:

[Genie Aye]

That's impressive.. That HO must have some real juice. How many HP does that motor produce?

I was told by a trusted source(who knows) that the 200HO actual builds closer to 238hp. Does not make sense to me to sell as a 200--But I know that it was alot lighter than a 4 stroke.

And at that speed--personally--it is feeling a bit light.

It is real comfortable in the 40's--but over 50 and it is to light feeling.


I will through in 58.2:clap:

[reelapeelin]

I ain't affraid.
I have a 2.4L Merc 200 pushing 48mph on a bracket. The boat is heavy for a lot of speed but she feels great. Turns are not a problem at 48 she still has some edges in the water. In a few weeks my CC gets a 3.0L 250EFI. I won't know top end for a few weeks (break-in) but I think it might be close to 60. I did a similar swap on a 22 Pursuit Cuddy and went from 41 to 55mph. Doing it to cruise 40 at about 4000 rpm.
My 20 has some hook built into the chines, all of them probably do. I removed about 50% when the hull was flipped and spent countless hours blocking and sanding. I would guess the round keel at the stern will probably give a bit of chine walk at ??? speed. With no real pad to run on I don't really know. Maybe it will rise to the innermost chines and just fly.
These boats sold, virtually unchanged, for how many years? The reason is that they handle water better than most, everyone love the lines and they offer good versatility.IMO
A 300x:love:That would be cool. You could never be accused of underpowering. Boat Insurance? Call Lords of London...


All I can say is...VIDEO!!...

[THEFERMANATOR]

I guess I'll go for 54-55 since this baby got 56. http://orlando.craigslist.org/boa/1341039507.html Same basic hull as the V-20 and it's a CC, although that 300XP is pushing 300+HP to the prop easily.

[RidgeRunner]

Thanks for all the input. Going to the lake now for a marathon break-in session. Try to post a pic.

[RidgeRunner]

First trip to the water was a success. I had a few problems. Trim pump won't trim the motor under full throttle acceleration. Wires look suspect to me. But it is probably a check valve issue in the pump. Second problem was the paint job on the gearcase. All the paint was stripped off while underway. No signs of primer.
250 EFI motor ran great. The additional weight did not go without notice. I prefer the lighter 200 and the way the boat would sit without the extra weight. The boat will porpoise now with higher trim angles but seems to go away with a little tuck, used the trim tabs for the first time.
The boat planes at 3000 rpm without trim tabs and runs 24 mph, 34mph @ 4000 rpm , 44 mph @ 5000 rpm and I saw a brief max speed of 54.1 mph @ 6100 rpm. Only four hours run time with new rings I didn't want to push my luck.
Boat handled great, no noticable difference on plane and no problems with the extra speed. Obviously not enough prop but I have a good feel for what it is capable of now. 60mph ain't gonna happen.
I was turning a 14.25" x 19 pitch Quicksilver prop.
The bow isn't flying. I am going to try a prop with more cup and rake. Any suggestions?

[THEFERMANATOR]

I am going to try a prop with more cup and rake. Any suggestions?

I would be careful about going that route. More cup and rake will INCREASE your bow lift and make your porposing worse. I would try a 4 blade prop with moderate rake to it as that will help to lift the stern up some and help hold the bow down. Call Ken at PROP GODS and see what he says.

[Genie Aye]

I would be careful about going that route. More cup and rake will INCREASE your bow lift and make your porposing worse. I would try a 4 blade prop with moderate rake to it as that will help to lift the stern up some and help hold the bow down. Call Ken at PROP GODS and see what he says.


I am in the same situation with my set up. The evinrude stainless prop has a big cup and rake and gives to much bow lift for my liking. I am going to try a couple 4 blade props to see about picking up some stern lift.

my speeds--Just FYI

4000@37
4500@44
5300@53+

But I am swinging a 15 1/2 X 19 rebel stainless prop.

I will by the hub -prop set up so I can run several different props to see witch 4 blade is going to do what I want.

[RidgeRunner]

I would be careful about going that route. More cup and rake will INCREASE your bow lift and make your porposing worse. I would try a 4 blade prop with moderate rake to it as that will help to lift the stern up some and help hold the bow down. Call Ken at PROP GODS and see what he says.

Thanks Ferm I saw the Prop Gods on Google. For $95/hr they come to my lake and the fun begins. Since I am running a few too many rpm now the 4-blade 19 might be perfect. I never had any porpoising at WOT only at lower rpm while cruising with too much positive trim. I was thinking that the bow is riding pretty flat at WOT.
This hull was never intended for this much speed. It isn't scary fast but it really isn't practical either. When I get to go fishing on the weekends, I don't get to choose what the weather is going to be. The extra speed could be used about zero percent of the time on my average outing. I like the 35mph cruise @ 4000 rpm. I understand the 4-blade kicks butt in mid-range and acceleration.

[THEFERMANATOR]

If you go to him he will cut you some slack on prop testing. I would try the boat out in a chop before you make any big changes though. A chop changes the way everything works. I know my engine is mounted too low on the transom for top end, but in a 2-3 chop it is just right as any higher and it would blow out constantly.

[spareparts]

i would try a 21 Mirage plus, its probably one of the best all around props made. It doesn't work well on some of the higher strung 2 strokes, but on your 3.0L it should be fine. One of my friends is running a 19 Mirage on his 20 Grady with a 225 Yamaha 4 stroke, it runs better than all the other props we've tried. Look at the mercury "thunderbolt" its an alternative marketing brand of the Mirage, it doesn't have the deep ingaving on the side, and doesn't have the cavitation holes, but other wise(according to my prop guy), its the same blade design and surface area of the Mirage, and its much cheaper

[THEFERMANATOR]

I'm spinning a 17 pitch APOLLO large diameter which is the generic equivelant of the MIRAGE. It's a pretty good prop that has virtually NO slip to it. I get close to 2-6% prop slip when running it hard which is a pretty solid bite. Also a MIRAGE style blade will take about 2" less pitch than a smaller diamter will. I've hit 53 with mine turning in the 5800 range on my HYDRA with a REALLY light load, but 48-50 is pretty achieveable on a regular basis.

[spareparts]

for a three blade, they are really efficeint, they give a bit better top end than a four blade with allmost the same cruise, hard to beat a four blade for midrange.

[RidgeRunner]

Great info. I definitely need to step up in pitch. It is on the limiter at 6100 rpm. I like the Marage on my Whaler it is highly polished. Do all Mirage propellers have the big diameter? Does polishing help or change anything?

[THEFERMANATOR]

The MIRAGE is a large diameter prop. There are 2 different styles of them though, the new ones with the XHS and the old ones without. The blades were changed some as well with the hub change. When you step up in diamter it will act like you went up in pitch. I went from a 15 pitch 14 5/8 diameter prop that woulkd turn up to around 6400 with a load in the boat to the 17 pitch 15 1/2" diamter that will barely hit 5400 fully loaded(5600-5800 light load). The mirage stylke blade is very efficient so it acts like an inch or 2 of itch just by going to it. I would try a 19 MIRAGE and see what it does, also you need to get somebody to help you check your engine height while running.

[RidgeRunner]

Got it. I know it to be risky by myself but the motor height was the first thing I checked. The lighter 200 was perfect mounted in the top hole the cav plate was right on top at 40 mph. The 250 seems to be a little low, I can barely see the top of the plate while underway and I mounted it using the second hole. It has a tiny bit of spray coming off the lower on one side only. 3/4" higher should do it. The bracket was mounted per the directions.
The Mirage 19 will be my next prop to test.
BTW I have been posting for a album. I need to reach 100 posts. LOL
At this rate my album will be here next week.

[RidgeRunner]

Nothing to report. Bronchitis slowing me down. Hope the boat is immune. I've looked into actual hp numbers on the 250 EFI and I think with a little more setup it might reach 58mph.
I have been second guessing the decision for more speed. I think this old girl deserves better treatment than what she is getting right now. You know, run hard and put away wet. I am a gearhead but I don't really have the speed bug. Besides fat people get distorted over 55mph...

:hide:

[Genie Aye]

Just a question--Is not the 250 over the rating for the boat>>

Mine has a rating of a 235hp.

Just curious if these boats varied on the HP ratings for different years.

[spareparts]

I'd raise teh engine to the top hole and try the 21 Mirage, if you get the engine too high, you will know it, then you won't have to wonder how it will run rasied anotehr hole, its allways easier to drop the engine down a hole than raise it. Liek I said, my friends 20 grady spins a 19, its a heavier boat than a V, plus he has a big T-top with full cnavas. That 225 Yamaha spins teh 19 with no problem. I don't remeber the different gear ratios on teh Yamaha verses your 250 Merc (1.75 i think), but I'd guess you should be able to spin a 21.

[RidgeRunner]

The hp rating on the boat in 1983 was 200 or 235. I know the early 20's were rated much lower. Going back to 1970 for instance there was no such thing as a 200 hp outboard. The max rating was 135 in that year. Several factors have led to the change in hp rating over the years. At some point I belive they changed due to Wellcrafts decision to go with the OMC SEADRIVES.
You raise a good point and in doing so opened the preverbial can of worms. What is the law? My 20 has no plackard for hp max persons etc.
I really don't have plans to run this package for long but say I get pulled by a wildlife officer, what would happen?
There is a really cool website for fast boats called SCREAMANDFLY.com, It is absolutely insane what motor and boat combinations you will see there. I don't think it really matters what you put on the back of the boat until it is
1. Time to ante up for insurance or
2. When you are sitting in court trying to defend your bacon after something went terribly wrong. :cen:

[THEFERMANATOR]

I'd raise teh engine to the top hole and try the 21 Mirage, if you get the engine too high, you will know it, then you won't have to wonder how it will run rasied anotehr hole, its allways easier to drop the engine down a hole than raise it. Liek I said, my friends 20 grady spins a 19, its a heavier boat than a V, plus he has a big T-top with full cnavas. That 225 Yamaha spins teh 19 with no problem. I don't remeber the different gear ratios on teh Yamaha verses your 250 Merc (1.75 i think), but I'd guess you should be able to spin a 21.

I know a friend of mine has a 21 KEY WEST with a 225 YAMAHA 4 stroke and he spins a 19 pitch STILLETTO to about the same RPM's that my 225 EVINRUDE spun a 15 STILLETTO, he maxed at 6100 running 52 and I maxed at 6400 running about 50-51. Those 4 strokes have a pretty deep gear ratio to them in the lower unit.

[RidgeRunner]

I know a friend of mine has a 21 KEY WEST with a 225 YAMAHA 4 stroke and he spins a 19 pitch STILLETTO to about the same RPM's that my 225 EVINRUDE spun a 15 STILLETTO, he maxed at 6100 running 52 and I maxed at 6400 running about 50-51. Those 4 strokes have a pretty deep gear ratio to them in the lower unit.
Ok, local marinas looking to see what they have for props. One said YES over the phone to several 21p test props and when I showed up in person you would have thought I was speaking Russian, Nyet!!.
Raising the motor to the highest position on the bracket, Friday. That idea is genious. Tweaking on the throttle plates to adjust idle down a bit.
My motor guru claimed mid-50's. He stated that I would be fighting the wind with my t-top and console as it is currently set up.
Since I have totally hijacked this thread I would offer that a light 20 with the proper setup and 250hp would be able to achieve 60mph without question. It would be cool to start with a CC and install a small console all the way to the step for the casting platform.
Bare essentials with a bucket seat that just offers a view over the bow.
Or maybe a cuddy with a small windscreen. 60 would probably arrive with less than 250 hp if the hull was light enough.

[Genie Aye]

Does anyone know the actual HULL speed of the V-20??


As far as the HP deal--As I understand--it just will not meet CG approval and as long as you do not have a incident because of HP you should be cool--other than maybe insurance--make sure they know what is on the boat for power to cover your Butt.

[spareparts]

RR, look thru the gallery at "on the Fly's" boat. As far as the hp, change the stickers on the cowl to a 225

[RidgeRunner]

Spare, I have looked at all of the galleries. That is a small console. I call that the day boat look. Simple, functional and beautiful. It took me 10 years to do my 20 and that is too long. It gave my brain too much time to figure out how to make it overly complicated. Bells and whistles are nice but simple and functional are the reel roots of these boats IMO:)

[RidgeRunner]

BTW, The 250EFI has no stickers on the outside to indicate HP it was recently painted, in a wind storm no less. Hoist the 40 lb lid off and the ECU's have 250 stickers all over.

[RidgeRunner]

Since I can't afford to fly spareparts down to drive my 20 to 60mph I have taken it upon myself to go on a diet. You know increase my power to weight ratio.
I got a 21pitch prop, repainted the lower and have been working to resolve all motor issues. Hope to raise the motor this evening, set the throttle position sensor and be ready for a lake test this weekend.
:sun:

[nipper]

Good luck with it Ridge, and make sure you have your shut off lanyard attached!

[RidgeRunner]

I agree 100%. Kill Switch Lanyard to be worn at all times when boat is in motion, no matter what speed. In addition we will have a full life vest, no riders and a couple bystanders with 911 on their speed dial until we see how it reacts. Hopeful to get some pictures. I don't care to take pictures while driving but will improvise there, maybe a quick shot of the GPS at maximum velocity.
54 was without drama, no ill tendencies except you have to train yourself to watch for big waves much farther ahead. I posted it before, the extra speed is a novelty that won't be used much. But, I would be lying if I said I wasn't having fun with this endevour.

[David2180]

anyone know how much speed is lost with rough bottom paint , compared to a smooth slick finish ?

[RidgeRunner]

anyone know how much speed is lost with rough bottom paint , compared to a smooth slick finish ?

Welcome aboard. I was curious as well. I saw it was answered in another thread.
Trip to the lake was a huge disappointment, 96 degrees, no wind, too much prop, motor too high, less top end and the motor malfunctioned.
It would only turn 5400 trimming to the moon. I had a rider that saw 52 mph on the gps. The motor will need to come down two holes. The center of the gearcase is now 2" below the bottom of the boat with the 30" setback. On plane I can see the water 2" below the ventilation plate and at this height the prop is surfacing with trim at wot although water pressure was always good. The prop is ventilating somewhat in the turns. The setup was not right and going to the 21p Thunderbolt was too much prop. I will have to send it off to be re-pitched since I bought it.
The motor dropped off about half way thru the test session. Something crapped out with the fuel system or the ignition. It wouldn't even get on plane. I don't think I hurt it too bad, it still has a good smooth idle. I am happy it died in the lake instead of the Gulf of Mexico but :head: NOW WHAT?

[RidgeRunner]

With respect to props, Ferm you were right on the money, I should have tried a 19 Mirage. I really thought it might turn the 21 with the motor raised up. I may have already seen the highest top speed. The giant diameter of the new prop really made a huge difference.

[spareparts]

sorry about pointing you in the wrong direction on the 21, I guess Ferm nailed this one, but you do need to stick with the same style prop, just 2 numbers down

[RidgeRunner]

sorry about pointing you in the wrong direction on the 21, I guess Ferm nailed this one, but you do need to stick with the same style prop, just 2 numbers down
Hey, not the wrong direction we are getting there bit by bit. If I was to do it over without input I would have made the same mistake. I should have known better. I had the info right in front of me but chose not to use it. With the 200 I ran a 17p Quicksilver to 6300 @ 48 and went to a 17 mirage and dropped 500 rpm with a top speed of 46.
I agree, the style of prop is the correct choice for all around performance. It has more rake and cup than the prop I was running to 54 mph. This one carries the bow a little better and still has a great holeshot. If all holds true I should be just right with a 19 Mirage, Ferm nailed it alright.
I can keep this one for a spare or make it into the right prop by sending it out. Any thoughts there?

[RidgeRunner]

Fifty miles per hr is plenty of speed, but anyone ever find a way to run one of these much faster ? Say 60 mph ?

Come on you V20 " purists" ...........live a little !!

250 hp isn't enough. I tried but will concede the trial in defeat.
You could reach 60 with a modified motor I think it would take 280 or 300 hp on a light version set up for speed. I never felt the boat was out of control at 54. It handled great. There are some out there now running 54 or better with less hp than what I tried. I have concerns about the additional weight of the added hp and just how practical is it?
Max hp = 225. That is a great recommendation IMHO.

[THEFERMANATOR]

I'm pretty sure a MERC 280HP 2.5L would push a V20 up into the 60 MPH spectrum. Then again the V20 is a fishing boat so why do you need to push it that far? The only reason I built up my 225 on my HYDRA was for economy, the added grunt was just a bonus. I knew that the lower cruise RPM's on that big looper would help keep the fuel sucking in check, and the porting let's it wind up easier as well to help out. The 225+HP at the prop is just a bonus for when I need to rocket the boat fully loaded on plane in 15 inches of water.

[RidgeRunner]

A bad stator and a long wait on parts have been slowing me down. Went to River Ranch this past Sat. Lots of nice rigs there "testing" top end. I took a good friend over to watch the hot boats. We put in at Port Hatcheneha and ran past River Ranch which is somewhere around 35 miles each way. The 250hp Merc pushed the 20' Center Console to 57.0 mph on the GPS turning the 21p Thunderbolt to 6000 rpm.(on the limiter) The conditions were less than perfect. Steady 20 gusting to 30 out of the east. Best number was seen running into a headwind of 15 with a light chop on a leeward side of an island, never saw that number again. It will go 55 in dead calm water and the prop never looses bite in heavy chop. With 600 lbs of people full of fuel and water, 94 quart igloo slap full and more tools than I normally carry just in case...
The handling of the boat was nothing less than predictable. A steady cruise at 4000 rpm put me at 38 mph. Very close to the 40 I was searching for. There is more speed in it if someone wanted to bankroll my efforts but I think the current setup and prop is good enough. Thanks to spare as he was correct on the prop. The motor was laying down on top end last time out due to the stator, I just didn't realize it.
Captpete is the winner, he guessed 56. pm forthcoming. :beer:

[spareparts]

Hey, I don't Pete has won just yet, I have yet to have a turn at the wheel(you did say it was insured, right?)

[THEFERMANATOR]

Hey, I don't Pete has won just yet, I have yet to have a turn at the wheel(you did say it was insured, right?)

You know I'm not that far away from him. I managed to get my old PRO-LINE up from 47 tops to 59.7 with a prop change and driving it like a maniac. COuld have probably had gone faster, but the wife was screaming at me loud enough to be heard over almost 60 MPH winds and a 2.5L MERC XRI turning 5600 RPM's:fight:. Don't know what the big deal was about it, I only had the engine raised up 4 inches and enough trim that the bow was gliding. The only real wake was coming off the prop in a rooster tail.

[spareparts]

wonder how a 23 would spin on it(yeah, I know, leave it alone)

[RidgeRunner]

On the limiter again. The 250 EFI does have some moxy. It idles like it has a 3/4 race cam and I believe someone has tinkered with the tuner as it is pretty loud. Setup is near perfect but a prop change may squeek out a few more mph. Driving it like I stole it already Ferm.
Insurance? Well I could pay the insurance premium or I could buy a 23 and try it out. What do you think spare? LOL
The racers at River Ranch suggested a Rev4 to help keep the bow up. I will not sacrifice holeshot for top end but I may try something more after X-mas. It is a $$$$$ thing... I do not have any issues with porposing or handling, it never felt light until we got into some heavy chop at WOT. MPG was surprising, we logged 72 miles on the GPS and burned 26.5 gallons of premix for 2.7 mpg average. There was a lot of cruising at 25 to 30 mph due to the 2 to 3 footers we encountered running across lake Kissimmee. BTW the gimble style drink holders don't work in sloppy weather, soda everywhere.
We pulled up to the shore to watch the go-fast boats in the ditch and I was surrounded by v bottom superboats. I could not help but think that the old Wellcraft v20 steplift was the inspiration for many of the hulls that were there.

[nymack66]

Damm,
Ridge if it was not for that cooler of encouragement you loaded up I would have nailed it..Congratulations Capitan and good job Ridge ..

[THEFERMANATOR]

A REV4 shouldn't hurt your holeshot, if anything it will make it stronger. And it would be a much better prop for the lighter weight of the V-20 VS the MIRAGE.

[RidgeRunner]

A REV4 shouldn't hurt your holeshot, if anything it will make it stronger. And it would be a much better prop for the lighter weight of the V-20 VS the MIRAGE.

Better holeshot you say, really? It gets up fast now.
What pitch should I try? The 21 Thunderbolt I have now is the Quicksilver clone to the Mirage. I have 11% prop slip when I plug in the numbers. The motor is as high as it needs to be, I can see the water rushing around the lower unit about 1/2" above the stock water pickup and well below the cav/vent plate. I can trim it out without losing bite or water pressure, when over trimmed it throws a nice rooster tail but speed don't come from there. The setup isn't far from optimal now, I am not totally handicapped, I have been rigging boats and prop testing since 1987, I just don't know squat about conversion from 3-blades to 4. Any ideas on how many rpm I will loose going to the 4-blade with the same pitch?

[RidgeRunner]

Damm,
Ridge if it was not for that cooler of encouragement you loaded up I would have nailed it..Congratulations Capitan and good job Ridge ..

You guessed 54, I needed another person in the boat or another giant cooler full of adult beverages... Thanks nymack.

[THEFERMANATOR]

http://www.propgods.com/content/propellers.aspx

I posted this in another thread, but it gives you a general idea of what MERCURY's props do. The MIRAGE is designed for large heavy boats with big HP, the V-20 isn't exactly big and heavy. The REV 4 is designed for lighter boats and top end. The VENSURA is similial, but is basically a 4 bladed MIRAGE.

[spareparts]

if your trying to get the bow to lift, what about a tempest? I've never had much luck with them on boats I've tried them on, but I figure they must work on something otherwise they wouldn't still make them. they have more blade surface than a laser, and seem to work better on heavier boats liek the V(vs a bass boat). As far as four blades, my experiance has been they will lift the stern, pushing the bow down, unless its a high rake fourblade and they generally work better on light boats. If you can't find a 23 Mirage to try, carry your 21 to a prop shop, tell him you need 200 rpms less and soem bow lift, a good shop should be able to dial it in on teh prop you have.

[captpete13]

Thanks Ridge. I would have to say it was nothing more than an educated guess based on the speed of my v with its 225. You can never have too much power. Those 3L Mercs do sound mean don't they. Lots of luck with your new setup.

[RidgeRunner]

Prop Gods recommended a Tempest in a 23p. My prop slip was 14% not 11% as reported. They suggested the Rev-4 was not faster than the Mirage in their experience. Tempest has the same blade design as the Rev-4 just 3-blades with lots of bite. The Tempest turns a few more rpm than the Mirage in the same pitch. Prop is on the way for testing..
Keep you posted.

[THEFERMANATOR]

You may need to raise the engine even more with the TEMPEST from what I've heard about it. It likes to run with a little air in it to help it spin up.

[RidgeRunner]

Thanks Ferm, I appreciate the input. With the Mirage, I had to lower the motor one hole from the top as the prop was starting to loose bite in the turns. Water pressure was down a bit too. Right now it is one hole from being as high as it will go and still have adequate water pressure. I will see what it will do. I may just need a little tweeking on the Thunderbolt, as suggested by Ken.

[RidgeRunner]

Prop arrived today from Ken @ Prop Gods. Excellent service... I have had to wait longer for a gallon of 2-stroke oil from my local shops. Test time.

[RidgeRunner]

Fifty miles per hr is plenty of speed, but anyone ever find a way to run one of these much faster ? Say 60 mph ?

Come on you V20 " purists" ...........live a little !!

The answer to the question is ...... wait for it ... Yes, the way to make it run much faster than 50 is to buy and use more hp. Saturday I was anxious to run my 20v cc with the 250 EFI Merc on a 30" setback bracket. The weather was perfect, wind 4-5mph out of the north creating a very light chop and a cool 69 degrees at 8:00 am. Took a snapshot of the boat in the water and proceeded with testing. Light setup for the test, one person, cooler full of drinks and ice, 1/4 tank of fuel, no water in the holding tank.
The first 20 minutes was for warm-up. The 23P Tempest gets the boat out of the hole very well. It cruises at 40mph at 4000 rpm. WOT with no trim gives 5300rpm at 54 mph. Add trim and she starts to fly the bow. Best speed into the wind was 60.4mph. With the wind I saw 62.0mph. The speed was measured by GPS. The motor would accellerate hard to 58 and then take another 15 seconds or so to climb to the max velocity. The boat chine walks a little above 58 but can be driven past it. I attempted a few pictures of the GPS at speed. I got three pictures at 61.6mph. I saw 62mph a couple times but never got the picture. The refresh rate on the Lowrance was trying to keep up with the speed IMO.
The speed kept increasing until it finally hit the limiter again at 6000 rpm.
It may still have a mph or two in it but I am really done now. I bought the prop as I found bottom in the lake twice while trying to find my dry box that blew out of the boat whan I wasn't looking. Special thanks to Shaun Torrente (best driver I have ever seen) for selling me a hoss of a 250 Merc, Fred Van Wagoner for the fairing and paint job on the boat and my loving wife who has no idea how much all this cost. A few others for their input and support, Ferm, Spare and last but not least wellcraftv20.com. It was fun. On to new thinks.:beer:
Pics 1450

1451

[spareparts]

OK, I guessed 59, any one closer? And I guessed the tempest, although I didn't have a lot of faith in it. Good to hear you hit the numbers. On a bet, I would have figured the Mirage would have given the best numbers, good to know what props work

[Steplift 72']

The hp rating on the boat in 1983 was 200 or 235. I know the early 20's were rated much lower. Going back to 1970 for instance there was no such thing as a 200 hp outboard. The max rating was 135 in that year. Several factors have led to the change in hp rating over the years. At some point I belive they changed due to Wellcrafts decision to go with the OMC SEADRIVES.
You raise a good point and in doing so opened the preverbial can of worms. What is the law? My 20 has no plackard for hp max persons etc.
I really don't have plans to run this package for long but say I get pulled by a wildlife officer, what would happen?
There is a really cool website for fast boats called SCREAMANDFLY.com, It is absolutely insane what motor and boat combinations you will see there. I don't think it really matters what you put on the back of the boat until it is
1. Time to ante up for insurance or
2. When you are sitting in court trying to defend your bacon after something went terribly wrong. :cen:

I haven't seen the rating on a 70 model, my 1972 was rated for twin 115's on the transom info plate.

[reelapeelin]

Way to GO, Ridge!!...seein' that number go past 60 musta been worth every $$!!...

I like the way your CC sits...some we have seen here sit butt-heavy w/a bracket and big HP motor...NICE!!

Do you have trim tabs?...might pick up a couple more MPH and keep the bow-fly down better...who knows??...:party:

[RidgeRunner]

Spare you are the closest at 59. Noone guessed 60 or higher. I even doubted 60 was possible early on while I was experiencing stator problems. I honestly believe the weather played a factor, this Merc makes a lot of power when the air is cool.
Thanks reel, I was flogging it, tabs were tried, it was a little faster with a small amount of tab.
It does sit heavy in the stern compared to the lighter 200 carb that was on it. It doesn't look that bad in the picture because there is no boot stripe. It sits so low that the close quarters manuvering suffers compared to the light motor. Once underway it is a pleasure to drive, turns at 50 are predictable and confidence inspiring.
Never turned much on the WOT runs but it is definitely feeling light over 57.
I need some video, I want to know what it looks like doing 60. Exactly how far out of the water is it? It is a sickness I think.

[Blue_Runner]

Ridge, the boat is a beauty! 60 ++ mph? :oh:

From the looks of that GPS you've been around that body of water a time or two. Nice pics. :pic:

[Road King Cole]

Wow, what a great thread! I was "avoiding it" and had time to kill today.

Congrats on your breaking the 60mph barrier even though you had to brave that "cool 69 degree morning".

[RidgeRunner]

Ridge, the boat is a beauty! 60 ++ mph? :oh:

From the looks of that GPS you've been around that body of water a time or two. Nice pics. :pic:
Yeah, the crumb trails were there from break-in. Lake Parker in Lakeland. Thanks on the compliments. A true 10year labor of love.

[RidgeRunner]

Wow, what a great thread! I was "avoiding it" and had time to kill today.

Congrats on your breaking the 60mph barrier even though you had to brave that "cool 69 degree morning".

Thanks, I never used to post anything. I officially highjacked this thread a while back and made it my own. My apology to anyone I may have walked on.

Breaking the 60mph mark was a little bit surprising. Light load and good weather. If I had known it was going to be so cool I would have worn some underwear. I forget that there are posters and members from all over the country. It is hard to beat our mild Florida winter for boating.:beer:

[Road King Cole]

I wouldn't worry about hijacking this thread, it keeps right with the original subject.

Plus it never bothered me when my threads get hijacked (other forums), in fact I kinda like it as it keeps conversations going.

[bradford]

February 17, 2010:

'90 Evinrude 225 turning a 14 1/2 X 19 stainless.
I hit 53.? mph on GPS at 5600 rpms into the wind and current before I blew the rings out.:cry:

P.S. This was lightly loaded with just me and about 40+/- gallons of gas on board.

[RidgeRunner]

Bradford, good speed. Sorry to hear that about the motor. Been there, I feel your pain. Nothing screws up a good day on the water like motor trouble.

[spareparts]

they allways run best right before they blow

[bradford]

they allways run best right before they blow

Thats the thought that entered my mind after slowing down and hearing the spray paint rattle can sound.:nut:

[bsteckel]

nice work, Ridge ... i would love to see some more pics of your boat. looks real nice. do you have any you could post up?

[RidgeRunner]

You can click on RidgeRunner and look at the pictures in the profile. I don't have many of the rebuild and all of them are poloroid instant pictures. Thanks for your kind words.

[bsteckel]

you did a heck of a job. if my cc comes out half that nice i will be happy. i would love to see some more pics and read the details of what you did to that boat.

love it.

[RidgeRunner]

Ressurection with another prop test. Trying to reach a new speed record (for me) Conditions were OK, 65 degrees, clear day with nearly no wind. The boat likes a little chop. Tried a 25 Tempest, semi-old school with the large square ventilation holes. I mention the large holes because the boat was a pig out of the hole with this prop. Throwing the hammer down from idle the motor would instantly ventilate the prop spinning the motor to 5800 and the boat speed was not enough to get on plane. I had to keep the throttle pinned for what seemed like forever (six seconds)until it finally nosed over. Once on plane things got back to normal. Max RPM with negative trim was 4800RPM running a flat 43 mph. Trim it to neutral and the speed climbed to 48MPH at 5000 RPM. Add a little positive trim and I saw 50 MPH turning the same 5000 RPM. Tried 4000 RPM and I got 40 MPH. Trimmed it out WOT and saw 61MPH (ie. Trimmed it to the end of the trim stroke with a little bit of trim tab) and it would only turn 5600 RPM throwing a huge rooster tail. Conclusions, Too much strain on the motor to get on plane and I know the motor was working harder/using more fuel cruising around. Prop slip is thru the roof. I found a prop the Merc can't easily handle and I could never live with the time to plane. Now I am done, until the next hair-brained idea that is.:fam:

[warrengee]

I had a 19' Renken with 225 Merc that would approach 60 and that boat had a similar splash roll (not quite as pronounced) as the V20 I have now. The splash roll caused a lot of lift issues when it started creeping up over 55. Had a Glastron with a 200 Merc that hit 60 easy but the tiny splash roll on that one caused some issues. I think these things get aerodynamically limited as to what they can achieve due to that huge splash roll up front. You don't see Scarabs, Fountains or Apaches with splash rolls and bass boats sure don't have 'em. Not a boat I'd want to do 60 in but it sure is solid in the low 40's!

[RidgeRunner]

"Not a boat I'd want to do 60 in but it sure is solid in the low 40's!"

I agree, I am not saying 60 is practical. :hide: Just having a little fun. Boat handles great all thru the 30's 40's and low 50's. You are probably right, aerodynamics are killing it. The console on mine is custom, modeled after a Fridgidaire then there is the t-top out there catchin wind. She was never made for the speed I am seeing now, but the hull has always been capable of speed. The wetted surface of this boat is not that different from the boats you mentioned. You probably already know this but, the steplift design as introduced by Ray Hunt on the Bertrams held quite a few records of endurance and speed. I am just proud to have what I have.

[redfish chaser]

Fellas, Fellas, the fish don't swim that fast. I like to get there in good time too but it's a V20 not a bass boat. Once you reach 60 mph windage issues become a much larger part of the equation. The company I work for put Gas Turbine engines in go fast boats back in the years. One hull I can remember was a 43' Black Thunder. We put (2) 1400 hp turbines on surface drives, she ran 108 mph and would start trying to swap ends (turn around) after 95. The boat builder claimed the bottom was engineered for 75 mph. The person that pointed out, in the above post, that deep vee hulls will continue to climb out the water the faster you go is correct. Couple that with the windshield, height above the water, load and ever changing natural wind conditions could provide a recipe for a crash. The good thing is the stability issues will probably scare the crap out of the driver way before the hull loses its grip on the water. Remember fear and respect are still the best throttle. I have been 142mph in a Nortech 50' supercat with twin 1400 hp turbines, great ride, rock solid. But it demanded respect at that speed, I would be very careful and creep up on that 60 mph mark for a V20.
Calm winds, little other boat traffic and light on fuel is what I would look for. As a general rule for every 140 pounds of weight added to the boat you will lose 1 mph. That number is a little askew for a V20, it was part of a formula for much higher speed boats but brings attention to the weight vs. speed issue.

[redfish chaser]

It's me again, my above reply may seem a bit out of place. I only read the first page of the thread then posted, not realizing there was ten pages more. (forum rookie mistake). I am glad to see the goals were achieved and no ill handling was had.

[captpete13]

Fellas, Fellas, the fish don't swim that fast. I like to get there in good time too but it's a V20 not a bass boat. Once you reach 60 mph windage issues become a much larger part of the equation. The company I work for put Gas Turbine engines in go fast boats back in the years. One hull I can remember was a 43' Black Thunder. We put (2) 1400 hp turbines on surface drives, she ran 108 mph and would start trying to swap ends (turn around) after 95. The boat builder claimed the bottom was engineered for 75 mph. The person that pointed out, in the above post, that deep vee hulls will continue to climb out the water the faster you go is correct. Couple that with the windshield, height above the water, load and ever changing natural wind conditions could provide a recipe for a crash. The good thing is the stability issues will probably scare the crap out of the driver way before the hull loses its grip on the water. Remember fear and respect are still the best throttle. I have been 142mph in a Nortech 50' supercat with twin 1400 hp turbines, great ride, rock solid. But it demanded respect at that speed, I would be very careful and creep up on that 60 mph mark for a V20.
Calm winds, little other boat traffic and light on fuel is what I would look for. As a general rule for every 140 pounds of weight added to the boat you will lose 1 mph. That number is a little askew for a V20, it was part of a formula for much higher speed boats but brings attention to the weight vs. speed issue.


There is a gofast cat with turbines running around Barnegat Bay where I live. That thing is blazing fast. I got a few pics of it bafore it took off one day. I have been told it does 140+ mph

[RidgeRunner]

1. That guy is ready to roast some marshmellows.

2. I wonder what the insurance carrier would say to that one.

3. What does a gallon of Jet-A run these days.:hide:

[captpete13]

That fuel must not cost too much for that guy. He runs around in that thing almost every weekend during the summer

[Parrot6909]

The heat that comes off the back of him is unreal. I was right behind him coming under the Mantoloking bridge by my house, smelled like i was at the airport. Even in my whaler which would do 60ish I wasn't going to attempt to keep up. Cool boat but glad I don't pay for the fuel!

[RidgeRunner]

Ok, finally with a couple running pictures. They were taken on the Suwannee, Sat. 3/12/11 Big thanks to Baja and Beefy.
2786

2787

It was running about 60MPH in the pictures. Saw 63MPH light on fuel and cool weather late in the day. Ran 70 miles round trip, fuel burn 1.5 MPG, average speed 45MPH. The Wellcraft ain't got nothing for the crowd I was with but she got lots of comments, I am still proud of her. See what I mean here. http://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?227278-1-st-Annual-Spring-Thaw-BBQ-by-the-SuwanneeMarch-11-12-13-2011/page16

[spareparts]

RIdge, you hanging with Beefy? Rough crowd there. We need to put another 3.0L on the back to give them some grief

[nymack66]

Ridge , I can truly now say I have see a V Fly!! Good job I bet you were smiling ear to ear!

[RidgeRunner]

RIdge, you hanging with Beefy? Rough crowd there. We need to put another 3.0L on the back to give them some grief

You know Beefy?
Met Beefy and his brother last year at another meet. They are students here in FL and card carrying members of the OMC Club. They give the Merc guys all they want now. If they were properly funded, well lookout. Pretty tame bunch really, a bunch of go fast gearhead types. BTW we could strap 3 - 3.0L Mercs on the back and we wouldn't raise an eyebrow with that crowd.

Thanks NYMACK, the boat has been done for several years. I smile every time someone takes notice. The novelty hasn't wore off yet.

[reelapeelin]

You know Beefy?
Met Beefy and his brother last year at another meet. They are students here in FL and card carrying members of the OMC Club. They give the Merc guys all they want now. If they were properly funded, well lookout. Pretty tame bunch really, a bunch of go fast gearhead types. BTW we could strap 3 - 3.0L Mercs on the back and we wouldn't raise an eyebrow with that crowd.

Thanks NYMACK, the boat has been done for several years. I smile every time someone takes notice. The novelty hasn't wore off yet.


Is that the one you draggin to C'town??...:party:

[RidgeRunner]

Thats the one. You gonna join Melissa and me or you riding with someone else? We snagging, or just a cruising?

[reelapeelin]

Thats the one. You gonna join Melissa and me or you riding with someone else? We snagging, or just a cruising?


In that baby??...dang right I ridin w/you!!...Glad to hear you bringin Melissa...I told my girls you were thinkin about bringin her!!...they'll spoil her for you!!...Snaggin one day, cruisin' one day...whatever you wanna do...:party:

[Stinky_Hooker]

Well done Runner! :party:

[UBHSTRY]

Not to revive an old post.....lol

We hit 60mph GPS on saturday with the steplift v20. Lots more room to go.

[fishnfetch]

best ive done is 56. that was on a smooth as glass lake, alone, and light on fuel. the boat didnt feel bad but i wasnt about to attempt any high speed turning moves

[RidgeRunner]

Not to revive an old post.....lol

We hit 60mph GPS on saturday with the steplift v20. Lots more room to go.

Now that is what I am talking about. Lots more room to go. I must have missed the other threads about a stroker chevy powered V. Congratulations, be careful and let me know if you find terminal velocity..:clap::sun::beer:

[Shubbar]

I go to fishing and i dont like speed but maximum speed is 80 Km

[nipper]

We Americans are not very good on our KM per hour to Miles per hour conversions. 80km/hr = ? miles/hr. I am guessing about 50 mph. Whether 80 km/hr or 50 mph, that is pretty fast. My 1991 V20 cuddy with a 190 h.p. Mercruiser sterndrive only hits about 44 mph.

[Hedge]

yes, conversion is roughly 50mph (49.7097 actual)

[Shubbar]

in United Arab Emirates used Km/h i dont now how much in mile

[nipper]

Thanks, Hedge. I used to know it. What is that km/h mph conversion formula?

[bgreene]

I think a top end of 50mph or so is fine for these boats.

When it's flat, you can back down to 40 or so. Nice.