Antennas...

[Bygracealone]

Hi guys,

I need to buy antennas for my VHF and my stereo. I can't find any previous holes on the gunwales, but there are some holes on the console that may have been where the previous owner had antennas at one time. Because I have a bimini top, I can't buy the 8 footer antennas unless I want to mount on the gunwale. I'd rather not, if I don't have to (I don't want to make any unnecessary holes on her, plus I'd rather not have to try and route the cable).

For those reasons, I'm thinking that I may go digital with some 4 footers mounted directly on the console. I'm looking at these two:

http://www.bestboatingdeals.com/product_info.php?pName=digital-vhf-4ft-528vw-white-45db

http://www.bestboatingdeals.com/product_info.php?pName=digital-amfm-4ft-531aw-white

Do you guys know anything good or bad about going this route? Am I overlooking anything?

[bcmarinamanager]

Either is nice, but I'd look at a VHF spliter, which allows you plug your fm radio antenna into the line for the vhf as well without interfering with either. I think you can find them at West Marine, and any boat store.

[Bygracealone]

Either is nice, but I'd look at a VHF spliter, which allows you plug your fm radio antenna into the line for the vhf as well without interfering with either. I think you can find them at West Marine, and any boat store.

I was reading about those and I noticed some comments about the splitter causing a weaker signal. Have you heard anything like that?

Thanks for the help!

Here's the comment I'm referring to:

Question: Does Digital Antenna offer an AM/FM and VHF splitter or band separator for use with a VHF antenna? http://www.digitalantenna.com/esupport/themes/client_default/space.gif
Solution: A VHF/AMFM splitter drastically degrades the VHF performance. Digital Antenna does not promote such a function. VHF antennas are your lifeline and it is never wise to degrade the performance. A splitter to combine frequencies should never be used especially when the systems are not even the same impedance. VHF is 50 ohms and AM/FM is 75 ohm. Combining two different impedances creates an instant mismatch which detunes the antenna performance. As with any 2-way splitter, a minimum 3dB loss (50% power loss) is present. This loss drastically cuts the performance of a VHF antenna. These laws of physics can not be avoided. Digital Antenna does not recommend using a VHF/AMFM antenna splitter.

[Blu_Lunch]

I read the ad for the antenna, they state there "hand tuned" I've been a ham for over 20 years and you need to check your SWR with a VHF 144MHZ meter it's really important you want a 1:1 to 1:3 reading, the higher it gets more RF is reflected back in to the radio and will burn your TX finals out. I would be careful of the placement antenna close to electronics, it will play hell when you TX. Don't use a splitter they do cause losses and with a 4db gain you could save money and use a coathanger instead.

[Bygracealone]

Blu, given your comment about the gain, I take it your saying I should stick with an 8 foot antenna? Whether digital or not, I believe I can't do better than 4db with a 4 foot antenna...

Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. I'm clueless when it comes to this stuff.

[jjjtronics]

BGAlone,
Your VHF radio and its antenna, are the most important gadget in any boat.
In case of an emergency, your Marine VHF is the best chance of getting help from boaters in the area, and those boaters are the only ones who can reach your boat quickly. A cell phone is great, but our friends on land can not do much without a boat.
As already said, ANYTHING you install between the radio and the antenna, ( besides the needed coax cable of course ), induces losses in signal strenght and, adds chances for connection problems, etc.
The best and most expensive radio unit, is worthless without a good and properly installed and tuned antenna system. An improperly installed antenna, specially a shorted connector/cable install, renders the antenna useless and will damage the radio.
I recommend getting an 8 foot, 6db gain Shakespeare unit. They are long lasting and VERY reliable. Then have a local Ham radio guy or radio tech do an SWR check after the install.
I think antennas make a boat look good if installed with style and properly.
Your music radio antenna can even be hidden inside the hull and still work because of the high power from local radio stations.
Also, I never leave the Marina until I do a radio check ( on low RF power ) and verify my VHF radio. If my boat ever starts sinking, I will reach someone to haul my Family and me out of the "Blue Pool" with sharks and else...

[Blu_Lunch]

Ham operator can help you out. Try this link for QRZ database type you town and state hit search and all the hams in your town will be displayed, click there names and addresses will be displayed.. Buy the best attenna with the highest gain possible
Ted KE1DK look me up in the database

http://www.qrz.com/db/?cmd=1

[Blu_Lunch]

Here is a excellent really informative marine antenna page; anybody needs a clarification on something I could try to help make sense of it............

http://members.toast.net/boatguy/vhfant.htm

[Bygracealone]

Gracias hermano (JJ)...

Okay, I'll go with the 8 foot Shakespeare. Is there really that much difference between the models? I understand the 5225 XP is the top of the line, but would a 5101 or a 5202 get the job done well?

Also, do AM/FM antennas interfere with electronics too? Would it be okay to put a short AM/FM antenna on the console or should that also be an 8 footer installed on the opposite side of the boat?

[Bygracealone]

Here is a excellent easy to understand marine antenna basics

http://members.toast.net/boatguy/vhfant.htm

Thanks for this Blu. I'll give it a read.

[jjjtronics]

BGAlone,
The SP 5101 or 02 are both great, and not expensive. There are other brands also good but SP I have installed many and they are simply a standard on quality and price. The 6db gain SP are all good. The more expensive ones have better looking finish and looks, but are electrically similar. S.P. normally come with the connector NOT installed, to allow you to easily route the thin coax via a small hole. Installing the COAX connector ( CB type PL-259 ) is NOT easy, you will need a GOOD and powerfull solder iron or gun, so the HAM radio guy idea is what you want, besides, they are ALL great and very friendly guys/gals.
An 8' AM/FM is OK if you want more range, and that way you will match both sides and the boat will look even, that is what I have, but if you have strong local stations for FM, you won`t need a big AM/FM antenna. With my 8' FM antenna I can receive St. Thomas stations which play AWESOME Reggae music, from 40+ miles away, with a shorty one, that will not be possible for me.

[Blu_Lunch]

Am Fm antenna will not interfere because you can't TX on them. Remember every 3 DB of gain, you double your ERP {Effective Radiated Power} of your radio. Hams are always willing to help out, use The QRZ database to find someone . I case your wondering QRZ in the old amateur radio Q signal's that date back to Morse code days stands for "Who's calling me"

[THEFERMANATOR]

ALL of the 2000CC's origanally had an antenna mount on the starboard side right up next to the fuel filler. This was standard equipment from HYDRA-SPORTS. As for the VHF and AM/FM, get one of the newer VHF's that has a radio built into it. I seen that they came out not too long back and use one antenna I believe and they simply switch to which one you want to use unless there is a DSC signal and then it automatically goes to VHF. Or you could simply hook your AM/FM radio up to your grab handle by the windshield and use that as your antenna. This is the same antenna arrangement that most boat builders use now in fiberglass boats.

[Bygracealone]

ALL of the 2000CC's origanally had an antenna mount on the starboard side right up next to the fuel filler. This was standard equipment from HYDRA-SPORTS. As for the VHF and AM/FM, get one of the newer VHF's that has a radio built into it. I seen that they came out not too long back and use one antenna I believe and they simply switch to which one you want to use unless there is a DSC signal and then it automatically goes to VHF. Or you could simply hook your AM/FM radio up to your grab handle by the windshield and use that as your antenna. This is the same antenna arrangement that most boat builders use now in fiberglass boats.

Ferm, I looked where you said and I don't see where it was originally. Here's a pic: http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f334/bygracealone/Hydra/100_2508.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f334/bygracealone/Hydra/100_2509.jpg

[THEFERMANATOR]

SOmebody has filled in the holes on it then because the antenna was standard equipment from HYDRA-SPORTS right on top of the gunwale by the fuel filler. Both of mine have the mount right on top there.

[Bygracealone]

SOmebody has filled in the holes on it then because the antenna was standard equipment from HYDRA-SPORTS right on top of the gunwale by the fuel filler. Both of mine have the mount right on top there.

Ferm, you know, it's weird because I also understand that trim tabs were standard equipment on the Vectors as well, but I don't have them. There may be holes there that I can't see because filled in and covered over by bottom paint, but I wonder what's going on with my Vector. It has the Vector decals on it along with the full length lightning bolt along the side... ???

WRT the antenna mount, if there were holes that were filled in, they did a great job because there's no evidence at all that there were holes there. I'm not saying it's impossible, just that if it was done, it was done right.

[reelapeelin]

BGA...if you have to find a new place to mount your antenna (s), may I suggest...if it will fit there, mount it just outside where the Bimini's main rail mounts to the top of the gunwale...that way you are not ADDING a new obstruction point as you would if say it was mounted in front or behind the top.

Does your Bimini mount top of the gunwale or inside?...there may not be enough room for this if it is top mounted...good luck whatever route you decide to take...and of course PICTURES :pic:

[THEFERMANATOR]

I put my 2 on the console and face them slightly forward, they look a bit odd but work fine. They also clear my bimini top with no problems, but your top may be mounted differently than mine.

[Bygracealone]

I ordered a Shakespeare 5101 and a 5120 along with two 4187 mounts for a total of $134 including shipping. Not bad! You all might want to add these guys to your bookmarks for boating supplies: http://bestboatingdeals.com/

Reel, I'll be sure to take pics and I'll install the bimini top before I start messing around with the installation of the antennas just to make sure I clear them; thanks for the good reminder. That's a mistake I could see myself making.

Ferm, can you snap a pic of yours when you get a moment? I'd like to consider what you've done. Thanks!

[macojoe]

I have a 8' on top the hard top works fine, But make sure to remember to put down when trailerng!!:nut:

As for a AM/FM I have a 8" little rubber att and it works great around here!!

[Bygracealone]

BGAlone,
The SP 5101 or 02 are both great, and not expensive. There are other brands also good but SP I have installed many and they are simply a standard on quality and price. The 6db gain SP are all good. The more expensive ones have better looking finish and looks, but are electrically similar. S.P. normally come with the connector NOT installed, to allow you to easily route the thin coax via a small hole. Installing the COAX connector ( CB type PL-259 ) is NOT easy, you will need a GOOD and powerfull solder iron or gun, so the HAM radio guy idea is what you want, besides, they are ALL great and very friendly guys/gals.
An 8' AM/FM is OK if you want more range, and that way you will match both sides and the boat will look even, that is what I have, but if you have strong local stations for FM, you won`t need a big AM/FM antenna. With my 8' FM antenna I can receive St. Thomas stations which play AWESOME Reggae music, from 40+ miles away, with a shorty one, that will not be possible for me.

JJ, have you ever seen these? I think they're new and were probably made because of the many complaints people have made about the difficulty of installing the connector:

http://shakespeare-marine.com/connectorshow.asp?menupick=pl-259-cp-g

Do you think this will do the trick?

[Blu_Lunch]

That's the first time I seen those, they will do, put some coax sealant around where the coax enters the connector, so water/moisture will not get wicked in to the connector and cable and really screw up your SWR. Putting PL-259's on is not hard, a little practice and a OHM meter to make sure the braid is not shorted against the center conductor when your done soldering and your good to go.

[Bygracealone]

SWEET!

Will do Blu. Thanks for all your help.

[jjjtronics]

BGAlone,
Sorry for not answering sooner, was not at home.
I have tried a few different kinds and brands on almost any type of R.F. connector, because for the last 20 years or so, all I have done is Electronics, Communications, Avionics, and now NAV/COMM for the FAA.
This quick and easy connector DO work, well, for a while. Remember this, anytime you put two different metals in contact with each other, there will be galvanic corrosion. That is a Law in Quemistry. Nothing will stop that. So, the problem will be later, with time, the contact area between the coax inner conductor and the connector center pin, and the coax outer braid with the connector outer, will loose good conductivity, thus, signal loss. On top of that, the marine enviroment, with all the humidity and salt, will make it even worst.
That connector will work fine, I have seen they work fine, but the solder type, when properly installed will last longer than the antenna will.
A few years ago, it was required to have the Marine VHF certified by an FCC Tech, and I did a few 100`s of those checks, and one rule I had was to have a soldered connector in the coax.
If you use the quick type connector, fill it with Corrossion -X or the like before you stick the coax into it, then cover the connector with 3M rubber splicing tape #23 AFTER you install the connector in the radio.
If you can not find a HAM guy who can do that for you, go to a local radio shop and have a COMM technitian install the connector for you. Just take the antenna to him/her. Tell him to check it @ 156.800 Mhz frecuency.