Need help on Helm w/ hydraulic

[Blue_Runner]

I'm getting ready to purchase a Seastar hydraulic steering kit. I was thinking of using eBay - anything I should know about where to purchase or not purchase? I know I need the complete kit with hoses which is looking like about 800 - 900 bucks on eBay from what I can tell.

The question I have is about the helm mount that comes with the unit. In the cable systems I've installed they come with a regular flat mounting bracket and a slightly tilted mounting bracket for whichever application you need. I need the tilted one on the V21. If you look at a v21 dash you will see what I mean. The flat mounting bracket won't work b/c you'd be steering around your knees! I'm just wondering if the hydraulic kits come with both mounting brackets? I would think they do since the teleflex cable system comes with them.

The other question I have is if it doesn't come with the tilted brack I wonder if my existing bracket would work, doubtful I'm sure.

That's all. I want to get this thing ordered and installed asap. Its been a long time since Blue Runner got splashed....a very long time.

P.S. not to confuse this with a "tilt" helm. I'm talking about a fixed mounted bracket, just tilted. "Perma-tilt" if you will.

[Blue_Runner]

I don't see any brackets, let alone a tilted one!! Calgon, take me away! :sad:

http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sell/SSProfiles/23000003/Images/14/6400AwHose.jpg

[Blue_Runner]

http://i.ebayimg.com/19/!BTO8h9g!Wk~$(KGrHgoH-D!EjlLl0oH(BKH(iCTMyw~~_1.JPG

[Blue_Runner]

Here is a cable system, it shows the regular flat bracket, gold-colored, bottom right:
http://i3.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/96/b6/8c58_1.JPG

[Blue_Runner]

Still looking. I just saw where it is a 20 degree bezel that I need. I'm pretty sure anyway.

[cterrebonne]

what angle is your dash? usually the seastar system's helm just mounts right on the dash unless you get a tilt helm.

[Blue_Runner]

The dash where the helm is mounted is completely vertical. The helm would come out at a 90 and be sticking in my knees. Its the 20 degree I need, I'll just have to find out if it is in the kit I suppose unless someone else chimes in with some advice. I may have to buy the 20 degree bezel kit for like another 20 bucks.

[Blue_Runner]

Top left in this pic:
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/woeimages/hardware/large/50268-1.jpg

[Blue_Runner]

Here is a link to the bezel kit. I already have a 20 degree bezel w/ wedge with my Teleflex NFB cable system. It seems like it should work for the Teleflex Seastar hydraulic helm.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Boat-Marine-20-Degree-Bezel-Kit-Teleflex_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a2Q7c65Q3 a7Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294 Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem3350a19c 0eQQitemZ220396100622QQptZBoatQ5fPartsQ5fAccessori esQ5fGear

[cterrebonne]

Here is a link to the bezel kit. I already have a 20 degree bezel w/ wedge with my Teleflex NFB cable system. It seems like it should work for the Teleflex Seastar hydraulic helm.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Boat-Marine-20-Degree-Bezel-Kit-Teleflex_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a2Q7c65Q3 a7Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294 Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem3350a19c 0eQQitemZ220396100622QQptZBoatQ5fPartsQ5fAccessori esQ5fGear

let me look in my distributors catalog to see what part you need. that one for the nfb system wont work. the seastar helm mounts flat.

[cterrebonne]

you need teleflex PN HA5419

[Blue_Runner]

Yep that is the one I saw ealier. It says drain kit HA5408 should be used. Do you think that is yet another component I would need to purchase separately?

Thanks for the help CT!!


SeaStar 20° Dash Wedge Kit ................HA5419

[cterrebonne]

Yep that is the one I saw ealier. It says drain kit HA5408 should be used. Do you think that is yet another component I would need to purchase separately?

Thanks for the help CT!!


SeaStar 20° Dash Wedge Kit ................HA5419




no problem, i would say you would need it only if you sunk the bezel into the dash so water wouldn't collect. but it you mounted it pertruding from the dash you shouldnt need it.

[Skools Out]

jur buy a tilt helm while you are at it, i just picked up a couple tilt hydraulic ones myself

[reelapeelin]

jur buy a tilt helm while you are at it, i just picked up a couple tilt hydraulic ones myself


Heck...Skools might even sell ya one a his...


Hey!!...won't the Baystar series work up to 150 HP?...and ain't it a hunnert or so less mulahs than the Seastar??...:head:

[cterrebonne]

the baystar is nice, but if you dont mind spending the extra coin the seastar is alot better, and will out last the boat

[Blue_Runner]

Thanks guys. Reel I looked into Baystar but I've heard of problems with them. This is the 2nd cable I've had in a year's time and I don't want poor Blue Runner to every have to sit this long again! Hence Seastar.

She's probably stuck to the trailer :cry:

[Blue_Runner]

Ok, I'm ready to buy but still a little skittish. Hopefully you all can help calm my nerves by confirming what I need to purchase. I don't want to end up buying the wrong thing or go to install and discover I needed to order something else......Here's what I think I need to buy:

1) Teleflex Seastar Hydraulic Kit 20' hoses - HK6400 +/- $900
2) Seastar Hydraulic Helm Wedge, 20 Degree angle - HA5419 +/- $65.00

Grand Total: $965.00

CT can you think of anything else? As soon as you guys confirm I'm gonna buy it!

:beer:

[cterrebonne]

that seems like all you will need. you have a wheel?

[Airslot]

I think you are going to have to go with a rear mount solution. I think there are pics of my install on here from two years ago. The helm goes behind the dash, otherwise you will have to move your seat back. Let me look for some pics.

[Airslot]

Can/t find any good pics, but I found this...

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e41/Airslot/0223081313a.jpg

I mounted the helm from behind the dash. The 20* bezel may be better?

[cterrebonne]

airslot you have a power purge? man we have one of those over here and talk about the greatest thing ever.

[Airslot]

Not mine, but good enough friends with dealer that he lets me borow tools:clap: That power purge is the cats meow for bleeding these systems.

[Blue_Runner]

Thanks slot and CT. I saw where you could buy a kit to reduce the protrusion by 3.5 inches but it was expensive. I current piece of crap seats have slides and already has quite a bit of clearance as it is.

I appreciate your input guys! Its going to cost considerable coin to do this and I want to get going asap so I don't want to run into a situation where I go to install and then find I needed to purchase additions to make it work.

p.s. Slot, I'll have to look at your pics at home, blocked here at work. It helps to know that you've been through this fairly recently. Did you have everything you needed going in or did you discover that you needed anything as you installed?

THANKS!

[Airslot]

Kit was complete as I recall. My dealer did have assorted mounting bezels in stock if I would have needed them.

[cterrebonne]

no problem br.

[macojoe]

wow i am glad my boat came all done!! But I have the wheel straight and hate it! I am going nto have to look into the 20* thing myself!!

[Blue_Runner]

Yeah, there is no way, I mean no way mine would work without the 20 degree....just look at any V21 dash and you'll see what I mean. I know it won't work because last time I installed a cable I accidentally used the regular bezel mount before I found the 20 degree mount (both included). I quickly realized my mistake.

Tilt would be nice and probably make it easier to drive standing up, which I do occasionally.

[macojoe]

I drive standing 99% of the time!

[kamikaze]

Blue:

I actually have the SeaStar bezel that allows the helm to be installed with limited extrusion from the console. Let me know if you need it.

Kamikaze

[spareparts]

why not just make a wedge out of starboard(or wood) to angle the Helm? You can make it over size so it can be mounted to the dash securely, glass it and paint it to match. BTW, I have a freind that has a used system for sale, the hoses are porbably too short, but its the pro helm(came off of a go fast) with teh front mount cylinder for a merc, I think he wants $500. PM me if you are interested

[Blue_Runner]

Kamakazi, how much and do you know what part #? I actually just ordered the 20 degree bezel kit.

Spare, I appreciate it but I'm going to go ahead and buy a new kit.

I got another question for you guys - do I need to buy this filler kit? It is like $17.

http://ep.yimg.com/ip/I/yhst-88304367457143_2048_77025425

[cterrebonne]

Kamakazi, how much and do you know what part #? I actually just ordered the 20 degree bezel kit.

Spare, I appreciate it but I'm going to go ahead and buy a new kit.

I got another question for you guys - do I need to buy this filler kit? It is like $17.

http://ep.yimg.com/ip/I/yhst-88304367457143_2048_77025425

with a new steering system you get the filler kit free

[Blue_Runner]

Thank you! This is the type of stuff I'm having trouble figuring out! What is included and what has to be purchased separately, so I certainly appreciate the fact that I have you guys to help out. Hopefully I can return the favor someday in some shape or form!

[Blue_Runner]

Anybody know the difference between HK6400 and HK6400a kits? Am I just a dumbass or is it really this complicated? :hi:

[Blue_Runner]

Here is what I've found so far. Somebody shoot me please....or I'll just do it myself if I can't get this order before end of day!!
:deer:

HK6400 Seastar Kit Includes:
- SeaStar 1.7 Helm HH5271
- Front Mount O/B Cylinder HC5345
SeaStar Oil (1 quart mil spec H5606) - 2 per kit HA5430

HK6400a Seastar Kit Includes:
Includes Helm, Cylinder, & Oil. Excludes Hose
Helm - HH5271 - SS Helm 1.7 Fr/Mnt Pump, Hydraulic, Rotary Pos
Cylinder - HC5345 - High Strength Tiller Bolt Included

[cterrebonne]

Here is what I've found so far. Somebody shoot me please....or I'll just do it myself if I can't get this order before end of day!!
:deer:

HK6400 Seastar Kit Includes:
- SeaStar 1.7 Helm HH5271
- Front Mount O/B Cylinder HC5345
SeaStar Oil (1 quart mil spec H5606) - 2 per kit HA5430

HK6400a Seastar Kit Includes:
Includes Helm, Cylinder, & Oil. Excludes Hose
Helm - HH5271 - SS Helm 1.7 Fr/Mnt Pump, Hydraulic, Rotary Pos
Cylinder - HC5345 - High Strength Tiller Bolt Included

hk6400a is the only kit they make, if you see a hk6400 its because they didnt put an "a" behind it. same thing. when you order that kit the only things you need are the bezel kit and the hoses.

[Blue_Runner]

Thank you again!

[kman104501]

I have one that is new and still sealed in the box on ebay. Not sure if it is the correct one but let me know if you would be interested.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120431715232&sellerpreview=true&sspagename=STRK%3AMESELX%3AIT

Ken,

[Blue_Runner]

kman thanks, but for whatever reason I'm going with HK6400a....I don't know what the difference is b/t the one you have on eBay HK6324a and the HK6400a.

[cterrebonne]

kman thanks, but for whatever reason I'm going with HK6400a....I don't know what the difference is b/t the one you have on eBay HK6324a and the HK6400a.

if the system has sealed boxes then that kit comes with 24' hoses also. that looks like a good deal if it has the hoses as the model number says. then you would only need the bezel kit.

[Blue_Runner]

Thank you sir!

[cterrebonne]

no problem

[Blue_Runner]

I bought HK6400a from a reputable eBay seller this morning for $876, which includes 20' hoses and shipping charges.

I bought the 20 degree bezel kit for $75 at go2marine.com.

I'll keep you guys posted on this project once these get shipped. Thanks for all of your expertise!

:nice:

[cterrebonne]

awesome! show pics when you start the install

[reelapeelin]

I bought HK6400a from a reputable eBay seller this morning for $876, which includes 20' hoses and shipping charges.

I bought the 20 degree bezel kit for $75 at go2marine.com.

I'll keep you guys posted on this project once these get shipped. Thanks for all of your expertise!

Good goin' BR!!...that's gonna be shaweet when ya get 'er done...worth every gray hair it puts on yer head and every dime ya shell out too...remember what all ya do, cause when I get the KAHUNAS to go hydraulic, I'll need lotta help w/it...:clap:

[Blue_Runner]

Thanks for the vote Reel! The install seems easy IMO. I'm going to use the existing cable to feed the hoses so that shouldn't be a problem at all.

I guess I'll be finding out how easy it really is very soon!

[reelapeelin]

Thanks for the vote Reel! The install seems easy IMO. I'm going to use the existing cable to feed the hoses so that shouldn't be a problem at all.

I guess I'll be finding out how easy it really is very soon!


Good luck, Old Buddy...that upgrade will really enhance an already "Purdy Lil 21"...:love:

[macojoe]

My hoses are cooper water tube, by what I understand it was done at the factory in 1984??

[Blue_Runner]

Wow, never heard of copper tubing in a hydro steering system. But if you can't tell by now, I don't know much about hydro steering :zip:

I know enough about steering cables though including how much they cost and how dangerous they can be when they fail! I got real lucky 2 years ago when running about 30 mph with 6 folks on board she snapped and sent the V into an instant sharp right turn. Luckily I throttled down just in time as we were heading straight for a wooden seawall on the lake.

No one was thrown out but it was scary.

[Blue_Runner]

An update on my hydro project...

In anticipation of my shipment arriving this week me and a buddy started getting things ready. First order of business was to free up the existing steering cable since it has to come out. I took the big nut off the tube and to my surprise the rod was not stuck in the engine tube :deer:
and not frozen at the helm :head:

So apparently the cable is stuck inside the whatchamadoodle, cable sheath or whatever you call it.

Oh well, no worries, all that crap is coming out! But I left it in so I could feed the hydro hoses :party: (Emphasis on CRAP!)

Next up, remove the wheel. I've removed about 4 or 5 stubborn wheels in the past with the 3/4 inch tapered shaft. They can be a pain in the tailbone! This one was no walk in the park. I thought I might be able to yank it off with help from my friend after spraying it down with some PB. No dice...she REEELY did not want to come off. Time to find that gear puller. Almost all of the wheels I've pulled in the past I've had to use a gear puller. Anyway, had a little bit of trouble with the puller slipping off and finally remembered to put the lock nut on the end of the shaft to hold the puller in place, but not before buggering up the threads a bit :zip:

Once the nut was on I tightened the gear puller and it was getting REEL tight, then BANG! It popped off :sly:and the gear puller crashed to the fiberglass floor :deer: and my buddy looked at me as if we had just ripped the entire console out :you:

Then I removed the helm and bezel mount. At this point I am ready for to install the new steering. This evening I'm going to work on draining the +/- 10 gallons of old fuel and charge up the batteries. Then she needs a good cleaning, new racor filter, and the owner may need a bottle of champagne considering July 26th 2008 was the last successful voyage for me. :cry:

Wish me luck.

[cterrebonne]

sounds like a rough install, did you try the two ball pein hammer approach to remove the wheel first?

[Blue_Runner]

I'm not familiar with the 2 ball pien hammer method....do share!

She was on there so tight I can't imagine anything but the puller would have gotten it off.

Actually, I'd say things are going smoothly so far, believe it or not. I will consider it a "rough" install if I run into something I can't fix in an hours time.

[Airslot]

Perty work Blue. I was in up to my eyeballs myself tonight as I started rigging the P-line. Once I figured it out, the entire helm pod lifts off to reveal all the wiring, which in my case was a rats nest from a bunch a previously butchered jobs.:shut:I did get my plotter on before dark, so in all it was a good night.

[cterrebonne]

i'll try to take a pic of the process today.

[Blue_Runner]

CT - what a tease!!!!! You've got my mind going ape-sh!t. I just cant imagine how 2 ball pien hammers could be used to remove the helm, beside two people beating the wheel simultaneously from behind.

Slot, I hear ya...you sound like me. Worked on the boat after work the past 2 evenings right up until dark. It is rewarding though. :happy:

Yesterday evening I drained all the old gas out. I estimated there was 10 - 12 gallons in the v based on my last recollection of the gas gauge. I pumped 11.5 gallons! Dam gauge is spot on!

My 20 degree dash wedge came in, still waiting on the steering system. I have 2 mounting options, they are the pics on the left as seen below. I prefer the top one however my hole would have to be 5 1/2 inches to accomodate. As of now its somewhere in the 3.5 - 4 inch range. I'll just do the bottom one for now to get to fishing and if I'm unhappy I'll remount it with the 5.5in. hole:
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/woeimages/hardware/large/50268-1.jpg
Be sure to tune in tomorrow for more hydraulic fun!
:time:

[jrou111]

You're going to love the hydraulic steering. I've got the Baystar system and it steers great. Just make sure to buy an extra front shaft seal for the hub/pump. It's not a regular o-ring, it's more like an x-ring to seal.

Mine needs replacing which is why I've got tilt/trim lube on the floor under the console.

Here's a link about it: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/teleflexSeal.html

[Blue_Runner]

jrou111, thank you for the interesting info...this is my favorite part of the article (at the bottom):

The steerting wheel is tightly seated on a tapered and keyed shaft. It may be necessary to use a gear puller to pop the wheel off the shaft. Typically just a slight amount of force will break the wheel loose.

:bsflag::bsflag::bsflag::bsflag::bsflag::bsflag:

[cterrebonne]

jrou111, thank you for the interesting info...this is my favorite part of the article (at the bottom):


:bsflag::bsflag::bsflag::bsflag::bsflag::bsflag:

yep maybe if it never left the showroom

[Blue_Runner]

Don't take the nut all the way off. Place a flat or ball peen hammer on the shaft with the handle under the rim of the wheel. While prying up with the hammer strike the first hammer with another hammer. Wheel should come right off. When replacing put a thin coat of grease on the shaft.


CT, is the the hammer trick you were referring to? I googled and found this.
:beer:

[cterrebonne]

CT, is the the hammer trick you were referring to? I googled and found this.
:beer:

yep thats the one. and if it doesnt want to come off at first get bigger hammers, lol

[Blue_Runner]

I got my steering kit in just before leaving for the beach last weekend. I'm going to the beach again this weekend so I'm going to try and work on the boat in the evenings this week.

[jrou111]

Blue Runner (and anyone else),

I've ordered 100 of the front shaft x-rings for the seastar/baystar helm pumps for $13 from McMaster Carr. I know I don't need 100 but they were $6 plus shipping from Teleflex.

If anyone needs an extra oring or 3 to keep on hand I'll send you one for the cost of shipping.

:hi:

[Blue_Runner]

Very nice offer there JR!! What's the deal with these? Do they dry out or what? Where is it located? Is it around the fill?

[jrou111]

Very nice offer there JR!! What's the deal with these? Do they dry out or what? Where is it located? Is it around the fill?

It's behind the wheel, behind the retainer with the 3 screws, on the shaft (huh huh).

They keep the hydraulic fluid in the reservoir and when they go bad you have a slow leak of fluid onto the floor under the helm. If the fluid gets too low you can lose your steering partially or even completely.

[Blue_Runner]

I got the cylinder installed on the motor yesterday evening with some help from friend Cory. There was some trial and error involved. The instructions were a little lacking, but all in all it wasn't too bad. A little tight in there trying to get the tiller bolt connected.

For the helm, my existing hole isn't big enough. Referring back to the diagram, my 2 mounting choices are on the left of the picture below. For the top one, a 5" hole is required and 4" for the bottom option. I'm going to start out with the bottom option with the thinking that if I do not like it I will cut it out to 5" and use the top option. Once its cut you can't put it back! I'm going to put a few feelers out today to try and get a 4" hole saw. Either my dad or one of my friends probably has one laying around. If I can't find one I'll go buy one. Working again this evening. Once the hole is cut I'll be almost there. Will post progress.
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/woeimages/hardware/large/50268-1.jpg

[Blue_Runner]

No hole saw yesterday, but I'm supposed to be getting something to cut it this evening. I don't know what yet...hole saw, rotozip, ??? But dad said he'd borrow it for me today.

I put a charge on my battery and the thing is deader than a door nail so I headed to Wally World and bought a marine battery. The dead one is an Optima - really like these batteries. I want to buy another Optima and use the Wally World battery for backup.

While at Wally World I bought 2 cans of seafoam and some stabil, went home and ran the motor on a 6 gallon tank with some of the seafoam. I was running it on muffs and water flow was terrible. The overheat alarm went off so I stopped. It was pissing but like a 100 year old man, nothing behind it so to speak.

This evening hopefully I will get my hole cut, install the helm and fill/bleed the unit. Then I'm going to put it in the lake!

[Skools Out]

quit cutting holes and get that corn ready for next week, that's what your dad really said didn't he? I'll see ya Friday in Denton.

[Blue_Runner]

Skools LOL!! We'll be there! Hot dogs, roasted corn, and now even corn dogs.

Update on my project - I got the steering installed this weekend. Did some work up til 0 dark thirty on Friday evening and hit it again on Saturday morning. Got finished around 11 am and headed to the lake. I ran it through its paces, burning approximately 15 gallons and well over 30 miles. A good time was had as this was the first successful run since July 27th 2008 (at exactly 5:07 pm).

:time::time::time::time::time: