Time to pay Attention

[willy]

Yesterday, across this country I saw the culmination of a citizen internet based tea party ran completely by volunteers. Most of them are Moms with kids that helped organize it.
These were working Americans who took time from work one way or another to join in over 700 locations to protest a runaway federal government and the spending of both parties and the incredible tax burden that has been placed on them. They are afraid for the debt that is being left for our children. We are the first generation to leave our nation in precarious posture and in incredible debt.
I could not attend due to work situation in which I promised attendance but my wife went to the one near us in NJ.
Now the reason for this post is this, in a coordinated effort the news media, specifically CBS NBC CNBC ABC MSNBC CNN to diminish these Americans and their effort some did not report it at all, for example the New York Slimes, but most went out of their way to condemn these folks as right wing loons who were orchestrated by right wing groups.
Pelosi, Reed, Obamination, Shummer et al did not even recognize them.
We are in serious trouble here in our nation, we need to contact our senators and congressman and ream them a new arse.
I needed to say something to my friends here about this disgrace and hopefully cause at least some to reflect on what your America is becoming and maybe take a stand and do something to help stop it.
And if you were at one of the tea parties yesterday as hundreds of thousands were God Bless You

[tsubaki]

Well if you want more pot stirring.
This is supposed to be an official Homeland Security Document, it has the logo's and such (diminished from converting to this text), only thing that makes me think it's some propaganda is the simple wording and specific naming.
I believe it covers most of us on this site as potential threats to national security.


UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
(U//FOUO) Rightwing Extremism:
Current Economic and Political
Climate Fueling Resurgence in
Radicalization and Recruitment
UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
(U) LAW ENFORCEMENT INFORMATION NOTICE: This product contains Law Enforcement Sensitive (LES) information. No portion of the LES information
should be released to the media, the general public, or over non-secure Internet servers. Release of this information could adversely affect or jeopardize
investigative activities.
(U) Warning: This document is UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY (U//FOUO). It contains information that may be exempt from public release under the
Freedom of Information Act (5 U.S.C. 552). It is to be controlled, stored, handled, transmitted, distributed, and disposed of in accordance with DHS policy relating to
FOUO information and is not to be released to the public, the media, or other personnel who do not have a valid need-to-know without prior approval of an authorized
DHS official. State and local homeland security officials may share this document with authorized security personnel without further approval from DHS.
(U) All U.S. person information has been minimized. Should you require the minimized U.S. person information, please contact the DHS/I&A Production Branch at
[email protected], [email protected], or [email protected].
(U//FOUO) Rightwing Extremism: Current
Economic and Political Climate Fueling
Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment
7 April 2009
(U) Prepared by the Extremism and Radicalization Branch, Homeland Environment Threat Analysis
Division. Coordinated with the FBI.
(U) Scope
(U//FOUO) This product is one of a series of intelligence assessments published by the
Extremism and Radicalization Branch to facilitate a greater understanding of the
phenomenon of violent radicalization in the United States. The information is
provided to federal, state, local, and tribal counterterrorism and law enforcement
officials so they may effectively deter, prevent, preempt, or respond to terrorist attacks
against the United States. Federal efforts to influence domestic public opinion must be
conducted in an overt and transparent manner, clearly identifying United States
Government sponsorship.
UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
Page 2 of 9
(U) Key Findings
(U//LES) The DHS/Office of Intelligence and Analysis (I&A) has no specific
information that domestic rightwing* terrorists are currently planning acts of violence,
but rightwing extremists may be gaining new recruits by playing on their fears about
several emergent issues. The economic downturn and the election of the first
African American president present unique drivers for rightwing radicalization and
recruitment.
— (U//LES) Threats from white supremacist and violent antigovernment groups
during 2009 have been largely rhetorical and have not indicated plans to carry
out violent acts. Nevertheless, the consequences of a prolonged economic
downturn—including real estate foreclosures, unemployment, and an inability
to obtain credit—could create a fertile recruiting environment for rightwing
extremists and even result in confrontations between such groups and
government authorities similar to those in the past.
— (U//LES) Rightwing extremists have capitalized on the election of the first
African American president, and are focusing their efforts to recruit new
members, mobilize existing supporters, and broaden their scope and appeal
through propaganda, but they have not yet turned to attack planning.
(U//FOUO) The current economic and political climate has some similarities to the
1990s when rightwing extremism experienced a resurgence fueled largely by an
economic recession, criticism about the outsourcing of jobs, and the perceived threat to
U.S. power and sovereignty by other foreign powers.
— (U//FOUO) During the 1990s, these issues contributed to the growth in the
number of domestic rightwing terrorist and extremist groups and an increase in
violent acts targeting government facilities, law enforcement officers, banks,
and infrastructure sectors.
— (U//FOUO) Growth of these groups subsided in reaction to increased
government scrutiny as a result of the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing and
disrupted plots, improvements in the economy, and the continued U.S. standing
as the preeminent world power.
(U//FOUO) The possible passage of new restrictions on firearms and the return of
military veterans facing significant challenges reintegrating into their communities
could lead to the potential emergence of terrorist groups or lone wolf extremists
capable of carrying out violent attacks.
* (U) Rightwing extremism in the United States can be broadly divided into those groups, movements, and
adherents that are primarily hate-oriented (based on hatred of particular religious, racial or ethnic groups),
and those that are mainly antigovernment, rejecting federal authority in favor of state or local authority, or
rejecting government authority entirely. It may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a
single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration.

[tsubaki]

Page 3 of 9
— (U//FOUO) Proposed imposition of firearms restrictions and weapons bans
likely would attract new members into the ranks of rightwing extremist groups,
as well as potentially spur some of them to begin planning and training for
violence against the government. The high volume of purchases and
stockpiling of weapons and ammunition by rightwing extremists in anticipation
of restrictions and bans in some parts of the country continue to be a primary
concern to law enforcement.
— (U//FOUO) Returning veterans possess combat skills and experience that are
attractive to rightwing extremists. DHS/I&A is concerned that rightwing
extremists will attempt to recruit and radicalize returning veterans in order to
boost their violent capabilities.
(U) Current Economic and Political Climate
(U//FOUO) DHS/I&A assesses that a number of economic and political factors are
driving a resurgence in rightwing extremist recruitment and radicalization activity.
Despite similarities to the climate of the 1990s, the threat posed by lone wolves and small
terrorist cells is more pronounced than in past years. In addition, the historical election of
an African American president and the prospect of policy changes are proving to be a
driving force for rightwing extremist recruitment and radicalization.
— (U) A recent example of the potential violence associated with a rise in rightwing
extremism may be found in the shooting deaths of three police officers in
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, on 4 April 2009. The alleged gunman’s reaction
reportedly was influenced by his racist ideology and belief in antigovernment
conspiracy theories related to gun confiscations, citizen detention camps, and a
***ish-controlled “one world government.”
(U) Exploiting Economic Downturn
(U//FOUO) Rightwing extremist chatter on the Internet continues to focus on the
economy, the perceived loss of U.S. jobs in the manufacturing and construction sectors,
and home foreclosures. Anti-Semitic extremists attribute these losses to a deliberate
conspiracy conducted by a cabal of ***ish “financial elites.” These “accusatory” tactics
are employed to draw new recruits into rightwing extremist groups and further radicalize
those already subscribing to extremist beliefs. DHS/I&A assesses this trend is likely to
accelerate if the economy is perceived to worsen.
(U) Historical Presidential Election
(U//LES) Rightwing extremists are harnessing this historical election as a recruitment
tool. Many rightwing extremists are antagonistic toward the new presidential
administration and its perceived stance on a range of issues, including immigration and
citizenship, the expansion of social programs to minorities, and restrictions on firearms
UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
Page 4 of 9
(U//FOUO) Perceptions on Poverty and Radicalization
(U//FOUO) Scholars and experts disagree over poverty’s role in motivating violent radicalization or
terrorist activity. High unemployment, however, has the potential to lead to alienation, thus increasing
an individual’s susceptibility to extremist ideas. According to a 2007 study from the German Institute
for Economic Research, there appears to be a strong association between a parent’s unemployment
status and the formation of rightwing extremist beliefs in their children—specifically xenophobia and
antidemocratic ideals.
ownership and use. Rightwing extremists are increasingly galvanized by these concerns
and leverage them as drivers for recruitment. From the 2008 election timeframe to the
present, rightwing extremists have capitalized on related racial and political prejudices in
expanded propaganda campaigns, thereby reaching out to a wider audience of potential
sympathizers.
— (U//LES) Most statements by rightwing extremists have been rhetorical,
expressing concerns about the election of the first African American president,
but stopping short of calls for violent action. In two instances in the run-up to the
election, extremists appeared to be in the early planning stages of some
threatening activity targeting the Democratic nominee, but law enforcement
interceded.

[tsubaki]

(U) Revisiting the 1990s
(U//FOUO) Paralleling the current national climate, rightwing extremists during the
1990s exploited a variety of social issues and political themes to increase group visibility
and recruit new members. Prominent among these themes were the militia movement’s
opposition to gun control efforts, criticism of free trade agreements (particularly those
with Mexico), and highlighting perceived government infringement on civil liberties as
well as white supremacists’ longstanding exploitation of social issues such as abortion,
inter-racial crimes, and same-sex marriage. During the 1990s, these issues contributed to
the growth in the number of domestic rightwing terrorist and extremist groups and an
increase in violent acts targeting government facilities, law enforcement officers, banks,
and infrastructure sectors.
(U) Economic Hardship and Extremism
(U//FOUO) Historically, domestic rightwing extremists have feared, predicted, and
anticipated a cataclysmic economic collapse in the United States. Prominent
antigovernment conspiracy theorists have incorporated aspects of an impending
economic collapse to intensify fear and paranoia among like-minded individuals and to
attract recruits during times of economic uncertainty. Conspiracy theories involving
declarations of martial law, impending civil strife or racial conflict, suspension of the
U.S. Constitution, and the creation of citizen detention camps often incorporate aspects of
a failed economy. Antigovernment conspiracy theories and “end times” prophecies could
motivate extremist individuals and groups to stockpile food, ammunition, and weapons.
These teachings also have been linked with the radicalization of domestic extremist
individuals and groups in the past, such as violent Christian Identity organizations and
extremist members of the militia movement.
UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
Page 5 of 9
(U) Illegal Immigration
(U//FOUO) Rightwing extremists were concerned during the 1990s with the perception
that illegal immigrants were taking away American jobs through their willingness to
work at significantly lower wages. They also opposed free trade agreements, arguing that
these arrangements resulted in Americans losing jobs to countries such as Mexico.
(U//FOUO) Over the past five years, various rightwing extremists, including militias and
white supremacists, have adopted the immigration issue as a call to action, rallying point,
and recruiting tool. Debates over appropriate immigration levels and enforcement policy
generally fall within the realm of protected political speech under the First Amendment,
but in some cases, anti-immigration or strident pro-enforcement fervor has been directed
against specific groups and has the potential to turn violent.
(U//FOUO) DHS/I&A assesses that rightwing extremist groups’ frustration over a
perceived lack of government action on illegal immigration has the potential to incite
individuals or small groups toward violence. If such violence were to occur, it likely
would be isolated, small-scale, and directed at specific immigration-related targets.
— (U//FOUO) DHS/I&A notes that prominent civil rights organizations have
observed an increase in anti-Hispanic crimes over the past five years.
— (U) In April 2007, six militia members were arrested for various weapons and
explosives violations. Open source reporting alleged that those arrested had
discussed and conducted surveillance for a machinegun attack on Hispanics.
— (U) A militia member in Wyoming was arrested in February 2007 after
communicating his plans to travel to the Mexican border to kill immigrants
crossing into the United States.
(U) Legislative and Judicial Drivers
(U//FOUO) Many rightwing extremist groups perceive recent gun control legislation as a
threat to their right to bear arms and in response have increased weapons and ammunition
stockpiling, as well as renewed participation in paramilitary training exercises. Such
activity, combined with a heightened level of extremist paranoia, has the potential to
facilitate criminal activity and violence.
— (U//FOUO) During the 1990s, rightwing extremist hostility toward government
was fueled by the implementation of restrictive gun laws—such as the Brady Law
that established a 5-day waiting period prior to purchasing a handgun and the
1994 Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act that limited the sale of
various types of assault rifles—and federal law enforcement’s handling of the
confrontations at Waco, Texas and Ruby Ridge, Idaho.
UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY

[tsubaki]

Page 6 of 9
— (U//FOUO) On the current front, legislation has been proposed this year
requiring mandatory registration of all firearms in the United States. Similar
legislation was introduced in 2008 in several states proposing mandatory tagging
and registration of ammunition. It is unclear if either bill will be passed into law;
nonetheless, a correlation may exist between the potential passage of gun control
legislation and increased hoarding of ammunition, weapons stockpiling, and
paramilitary training activities among rightwing extremists.
(U//FOUO) Open source reporting of wartime ammunition shortages has likely spurred
rightwing extremists—as well as law-abiding Americans—to make bulk purchases of
ammunition. These shortages have increased the cost of ammunition, further
exacerbating rightwing extremist paranoia and leading to further stockpiling activity.
Both rightwing extremists and law-abiding citizens share a belief that rising crime rates
attributed to a slumping economy make the purchase of legitimate firearms a wise move
at this time.
(U//FOUO) Weapons rights and gun-control legislation are likely to be hotly contested
subjects of political debate in light of the 2008 Supreme Court’s decision in District of
Columbia v. Heller in which the Court reaffirmed an individual’s right to keep and bear
arms under the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, but left open to debate the
precise contours of that right. Because debates over constitutional rights are intense, and
parties on all sides have deeply held, sincere, but vastly divergent beliefs, violent
extremists may attempt to co-opt the debate and use the controversy as a radicalization
tool.
(U) Perceived Threat from Rise of Other Countries
(U//FOUO) Rightwing extremist paranoia of foreign regimes could escalate or be
magnified in the event of an economic crisis or military confrontation, harkening back to
the “New World Order” conspiracy theories of the 1990s. The dissolution of Communist
countries in Eastern Europe and the end of the Soviet Union in the 1990s led some
rightwing extremists to believe that a “New World Order” would bring about a world
government that would usurp the sovereignty of the United States and its Constitution,
thus infringing upon their liberty. The dynamics in 2009 are somewhat similar, as other
countries, including China, India, and Russia, as well as some smaller, oil-producing
states, are experiencing a rise in economic power and influence.
— (U//FOUO) Fear of Communist regimes and related conspiracy theories
characterizing the U.S. Government’s role as either complicit in a foreign
invasion or acquiescing as part of a “One World Government” plan inspired
extremist members of the militia movement to target government and military
facilities in past years.
— (U//FOUO) Law enforcement in 1996 arrested three rightwing militia members
in Battle Creek, Michigan with pipe bombs, automatic weapons, and military

[tsubaki]

ordnance that they planned to use in attacks on nearby military and federal
facilities and infrastructure targets.
— (U//FOUO) Rightwing extremist views bemoan the decline of U.S. stature and
have recently focused on themes such as the loss of U.S. manufacturing capability
to China and India, Russia’s control of energy resources and use of these to
pressure other countries, and China’s investment in U.S. real estate and
corporations as a part of subversion strategy.
(U) Disgruntled Military Veterans
(U//FOUO) DHS/I&A assesses that rightwing extremists will attempt to recruit and
radicalize returning veterans in order to exploit their skills and knowledge derived from
military training and combat. These skills and knowledge have the potential to boost the
capabilities of extremists—including lone wolves or small terrorist cells—to carry out
violence. The willingness of a small percentage of military personnel to join extremist
groups during the 1990s because they were disgruntled, disillusioned, or suffering from
the psychological effects of war is being replicated today.
— (U) After Operation Desert Shield/Storm in 1990-1991, some returning military
veterans—including Timothy McVeigh—joined or associated with rightwing
extremist groups.
— (U) A prominent civil rights organization reported in 2006 that “large numbers
of potentially violent neo-Nazis, skinheads, and other white supremacists are now
learning the art of warfare in the [U.S.] armed forces.”
— (U//LES) The FBI noted in a 2008 report on the white supremacist movement
that some returning military veterans from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have
joined extremist groups.
Page 7 of 9
(U//FOUO) Lone Wolves and Small Terrorist Cells
(U//FOUO) DHS/I&A assesses that lone wolves and small terrorist cells embracing violent rightwing
extremist ideology are the most dangerous domestic terrorism threat in the United States. Information
from law enforcement and nongovernmental organizations indicates lone wolves and small terrorist
cells have shown intent—and, in some cases, the capability—to commit violent acts.
— (U//LES) DHS/I&A has concluded that white supremacist lone wolves pose the most
significant domestic terrorist threat because of their low profile and autonomy—separate from
any formalized group—which hampers warning efforts.
— (U//FOUO) Similarly, recent state and municipal law enforcement reporting has warned of the
dangers of rightwing extremists embracing the tactics of “leaderless resistance” and of lone
wolves carrying out acts of violence.
— (U//FOUO) Arrests in the past several years of radical militia members in Alabama, Arkansas,
and Pennsylvania on firearms, explosives, and other related violations indicates the emergence
of small, well-armed extremist groups in some rural areas.
ordnance that they planned to use in attacks on nearby military and federal
facilities and infrastructure targets.
— (U//FOUO) Rightwing extremist views bemoan the decline of U.S. stature and
have recently focused on themes such as the loss of U.S. manufacturing capability
to China and India, Russia’s control of energy resources and use of these to
pressure other countries, and China’s investment in U.S. real estate and
corporations as a part of subversion strategy.
(U) Disgruntled Military Veterans
(U//FOUO) DHS/I&A assesses that rightwing extremists will attempt to recruit and
radicalize returning veterans in order to exploit their skills and knowledge derived from
military training and combat. These skills and knowledge have the potential to boost the
capabilities of extremists—including lone wolves or small terrorist cells—to carry out
violence. The willingness of a small percentage of military personnel to join extremist
groups during the 1990s because they were disgruntled, disillusioned, or suffering from
the psychological effects of war is being replicated today.
— (U) After Operation Desert Shield/Storm in 1990-1991, some returning military
veterans—including Timothy McVeigh—joined or associated with rightwing
extremist groups.
— (U) A prominent civil rights organization reported in 2006 that “large numbers
of potentially violent neo-Nazis, skinheads, and other white supremacists are now
learning the art of warfare in the [U.S.] armed forces.”
— (U//LES) The FBI noted in a 2008 report on the white supremacist movement
that some returning military veterans from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have
joined extremist groups.
UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY

[tsubaki]

Page 8 of 9
(U) Outlook
(U//FOUO) DHS/I&A assesses that the combination of environmental factors that echo
the 1990s, including heightened interest in legislation for tighter firearms restrictions and
returning military veterans, as well as several new trends, including an uncertain
economy and a perceived rising influence of other countries, may be invigorating
rightwing extremist activity, specifically the white supremacist and militia movements.
To the extent that these factors persist, rightwing extremism is likely to grow in strength.
(U//FOUO) Unlike the earlier period, the advent of the Internet and other informationage
technologies since the 1990s has given domestic extremists greater access to
information related to bomb-making, weapons training, and tactics, as well as targeting of
individuals, organizations, and facilities, potentially making extremist individuals and
groups more dangerous and the consequences of their violence more severe. New
technologies also permit domestic extremists to send and receive encrypted
communications and to network with other extremists throughout the country and abroad,
making it much more difficult for law enforcement to deter, prevent, or preempt a violent
extremist attack.
(U//FOUO) A number of law enforcement actions and external factors were effective in
limiting the militia movement during the 1990s and could be utilized in today’s climate.
— (U//FOUO) Following the 1995 bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah federal
building in Oklahoma City, the militia movement declined in total membership
and in the number of organized groups because many members distanced
themselves from the movement as a result of the intense scrutiny militias received
after the bombing.
— (U//FOUO) Militia membership continued to decline after the turn of the
millennium as a result of law enforcement disruptions of multiple terrorist plots
linked to violent rightwing extremists, new legislation banning paramilitary
training, and militia frustration that the “revolution” never materialized.
— (U//FOUO) Although the U.S. economy experienced a significant recovery and
many perceived a concomitant rise in U.S. standing in the world, white
supremacist groups continued to experience slight growth.
(U//FOUO) DHS/I&A will be working with its state and local partners over the next
several months to ascertain with greater regional specificity the rise in rightwing
extremist activity in the United States, with a particular emphasis on the political,
economic, and social factors that drive rightwing extremist radicalization.
UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
Page 9 of 9
(U) Reporting Notice:
(U) DHS encourages recipients of this document to report information concerning suspicious or criminal
activity to DHS and the FBI. The DHS National Operations Center (NOC) can be reached by telephone at
202-282-9685 or by e-mail at [email protected]. For information affecting the private sector and
critical infrastructure, contact the National Infrastructure Coordinating Center (NICC), a sub-element of the
NOC. The NICC can be reached by telephone at 202-282-9201 or by e-mail at [email protected]. The FBI
regional phone numbers can be found online at http://www.fbi.gov/contact/fo/fo.htm. When available,
each report submitted should include the date, time, location, type of activity, number of people and type of
equipment used for the activity, the name of the submitting company or organization, and a designated
point of contact.
(U) For comments or questions related to the content or dissemination of this document, please contact the
DHS/I&A Production Branch at [email protected], [email protected], or [email protected].
(U) Tracked by: CRIM-040300-01-05, CRIM-040400-01-05, TERR-010000-01-05

[cterrebonne]

" rejecting federal authority in favor of state or local authority, or
rejecting government authority entirely. It may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a
single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration."

"groups that are dedicated to a single issue" this is scary and communistic. notice how there are only references to conservative people. last time i checked they are other liberal groups that are dedicated to a single issue i.e. william ayers. who actually is a terrorist since his acts were intended to try to change political policy. whom ever drafted this report and those who were behind it need to be pointed out, because they obviously have an agenda against people who support the basis this nation was founded upon.

[reelapeelin]

The world sat back and watched over 8 years while W nearly DESTROYED this country and everything it has stood for since the beginning...he left it in a MESS like we've never seen before from international relations to the worst economic conditions since the Great Depression...and LIED his @$$ off the entire time...

It's going to take time and yes, some EXTREME measures to get us outta the hole he left us in...

If the present administration wanted socialism, he sure passed on a perfect opportunity to nationalize the banks...he chose not to...

He wants a balanced budget, but there are some temporary fixes that require GOBS of money to fix...I haven't agreed w/all he's done by any means, but we need to calm down give a different approach some time to work...there's some light at the end of the tunnel...once the economy rights itself from W's abuse and neglect, the debt will start to dwindle and well get it back on the right track...

All the good folks who went out and showed their dissent w/current policy earned my praise...it's healthy to publicly demonstrate frustration w/the government, but I just hope the fear mongers to the extreme right don't perpetrate their fear tactics into a frenzy...

Obama had some pirates SHOT the other day for messin' w/an American flagged merchant vessel...now I hear his actions are a problem for some on the right...are they kidding??...what should he have done??...wring his hands and consult the lawyers??...hell no...he had them killed just like he should have done, but there are some who, no matter what he does, are in the default mode of "NO...WHATEVER HE DOES IS WRONG"...

Let's give some outta the box thinking a chance to work...the more divided the citizens of this country become, the more the politicians WIN!!...and as far as I'm concerned, they've won enough...divided, we WILL fall...

[rb437]

"give a different approach some time to work"

Tax and spend is not a different approach.

[reelapeelin]

"give a different approach some time to work"

Tax and spend is not a different approach.


Is that because the prior approach worked so well?...

[RWilson2526]

I'm with Reel....but thats all I'm saying or Willy will never invite me fishing

[willy]

GW, along with a democratic controlled congress passed large deficit budgets that many conservatives, independents and democrats criticized vehemently.
Nobody listened
GW along with Obama and McCain pushed thru a stimulus package that put this country in a huge debt.
As of the two spending aka stimulus packages passed this year along with the largest single deficit in our nations history were passed under Obama. Made the spending by Bush look trivial in comparison.
The Democratically controlled Congressional Office of Budget and Managment told the entire country right up front that we cannot carry this debt, the small amount going to actually stimulate anything would not compensate for the massive debt and printing of money(inflation) that will come from it.
In fact they said if you did nothing this recession would likely run its course in 12-18 months.
Every single economist of merit said the same thing, your blue dog Congressman and senators from the south told him that.
They were told to shut up, they experienced ad campaigns in their home districts paid for by George Soros and his front group Move on dot org. criticizing these men and women for standing up and telling the truth.
You cannot spend your way out of debt, you cannot print money by the billions to finance a socialistic agenda and expect free Americans to stand by quietly.
You cannot use your cronies in the press and media to silence dissent in America
You cannot refer to those Americans who believe in God, who believe in our Constitution and all of the Bill of Rights as right wing loons.
I dont care if you are black or white or yellow, I dont care if you are a Dem a republican an independent or whatever else is out there. What is being done here is horrible and to say this agenda just needs some time to work is the attitude that got us in this mess with Bush and now this Obamination.
Neither are listening to the people who pay the bills here, they quite frankly could not care less, you see now there are enough people on the government t!t in the major cities to keep them in power for a long time.
Until the people of all colors, all backgrounds all parties recognize that the Federal Government is gone way beyond "out of control" and has designs on controlling everything about our lives then we are doomed to follow in the footsteps of the Europeans who now have nationalized banks, transportation, medicine and are not alowwed to possess firearms etc. etc and roll to the tune of whatever the government says.
If you cannot see the agenda you need to step back and look.
It is right in front of you

[Mac_Attack]

Reel I'm with you. It's Barracks time to take the shots. GW did his share and maybe the tea party's were protesting what he left us with. It's good that we differ. Billy Mac

[willy]

Left us with, did you not see the numbers just passed in the last three months, tarp 2, tarp 3, and a budget with more pork than ever in our history, a budget with a deficit three times larger than all the deficits ever done in budgets in total in our history.
These are not republicans numbers, these are the numbers from the congressional budget office.
Three times larger than all the deficits in history added together.
Sorry as screwed up as Bush was, as glad as I am to see him out of office these numbers and the results to follow fall all on the hands of the democratic controlled house and the Obamination himself. Even under Bush the major deficits came in his last two years when the democratic house and senate gained control and passed their budgets. yes he signed them and shame on him.
Shame on all these parasites, shame on them for putting our country in jeapordy, shame on them for allowing this to happen.
Thats what the tea parties were about, not a right wing conspiracy, but Americans who have some common sense who are scared for the future.
Americans who have had enough paying between 40-50 percent of what they earn to state and federal governments that have grown to be monsters, irresponsible monsters.
Right now we are in a spending spiral that has us spending 14 percent of our gross domestic product. That is considered in the entire world by all economies as a failing economy. We are right in league with all the third world countries who borrow from the world bank because they are above the 10% mark.
I do not need to wait anymore to know where we stand, even China and Czechoslavakia and Germany are telling us to change our direction before we bring down the economies of the entire world with our debt.
My God how far we have come, we need Europe and China to tell us to change direction.
Shame on all of them, they need to be removed from office, they all need to be be thrown out in the next election.

[spareparts]

Reel, whats your take on Sanford?

[rb437]

Is that because the prior approach worked so well?...

Not suggesting that the prior approach did work. Judging from where we are today, it seems clear that it didn't. I don't care what side of the aisle your on, there's plenty of blame to go around. As it says at the bottom of every one of your posts Reel "Nothing resembles a democrat more than a republican..." I didn't vote for Obama, but that doesn't mean I want him to fail. I'm sure he wants to do what he feels is in the best interest of the country. I just don't agree that we can spend more than we have to work our way out of a problem that was created by spending more than we have. Enough is enough. You don't get out of debt by spending more, you get out of debt by spending less. The problem is a lack of confidence in the economy. How does continuing down the path that got us here inspire confidence? The Tea Party folks are basically saying that we've given enough of our hard earned money to Republicans and Democrats and we don't have confidence that giving more will help. In fact I think it is more likely to hurt. You want to stimulate the economy? Give me my money back. I'll stimulate the economy where it matters most to me, right here at home with the local business run by my friends and neighbors. Give my friends and neighbors their money back and they'll do the same. Next thing you know we're all better off. It took more than W to cause this, it's going to take more than Obama to fix it.
Willy's right, throw them all out in the next election. Then we need term limits

[Bygracealone]

Well said. My thoughts exactly.

Not suggesting that the prior approach did work. Judging from where we are today, it seems clear that it didn't. I don't care what side of the aisle your on, there's plenty of blame to go around. As it says at the bottom of every one of your posts Reel "Nothing resembles a democrat more than a republican..." I didn't vote for Obama, but that doesn't mean I want him to fail. I'm sure he wants to do what he feels is in the best interest of the country. I just don't agree that we can spend more than we have to work our way out of a problem that was created by spending more than we have. Enough is enough. You don't get out of debt by spending more, you get out of debt by spending less. The problem is a lack of confidence in the economy. How does continuing down the path that got us here inspire confidence? The Tea Party folks are basically saying that we've given enough of our hard earned money to Republicans and Democrats and we don't have confidence that giving more will help. In fact I think it is more likely to hurt. You want to stimulate the economy? Give me my money back. I'll stimulate the economy where it matters most to me, right here at home with the local business run by my friends and neighbors. Give my friends and neighbors their money back and they'll do the same. Next thing you know we're all better off. It took more than W to cause this, it's going to take more than Obama to fix it.
Willy's right, throw them all out in the next election. Then we need term limits

[reelapeelin]

Shame on all of them, they need to be removed from office, they all need to be be thrown out in the next election.

Now HERE is where you and I could not agree more!!...(AMAZIN' AIN'T IT!!)

There are a little over 50 or so registered political parties in the US...there's no doubt in my mind that it's time to register one more w/the common goal of kicking the fat and happy status-quo politicians out on their butts and bring back common sense...the taxes we're paying are outta control and the powers the fed has now are outrageous...

lobbyists: OUT
politics:OUT
career politicians:OUT
earmarks:OUT
flat tax:IN
gun control:OUT
illegal aliens:OUT

the list could go on and on, but those few corrections to the way our country is being run would clear up a LOT of BullSh-t and get us going on a path we'd be proud to leave our children with...

but we'll never do it DIVIDED...the time is ripe for another party of voters tired of the BS to come together and take back the country we've pledged allegiance to all our lives...it got lost some time back...

[Mac_Attack]

Reel I'm with you here too! I won't say anymore because you have said it so well. Billy Mac :beer:

[LESTERUS]

Deja voo: Cuba 1959

[LESTERUS]

For as long as we keep electing unemployed lawyers and carreer politicians
in office, nothing's gona change, we need accountants and economists

[parishht]

No accountants and economists, they screw things up as well.

what we need are engineers, plumbers and carpenters.

[spareparts]

Hey Reel, you missed my comment, what do you think about our Governor? Just curious

[bcmarinamanager]

God bless you Willy!! It seems people forget that the LAW MAKERS in congress were a democrat majority since 2006. I guess they didn't have a thnig to do with anything going on up there. They for darn sure didn't have a single problem with all of GW's spending...they passed everything he gave 'em. This country will survive (in some form) and we will eventually get back to an even keel. but, becoming friends with Chavez, Ahmadinejad, and Castro is only "CHANGING" the US to the "perfect" socialist form of their respective countries. Hoaray!!!! We all work for the benefit of each other now!!!!!!! Everyone send in what their yearly income is and when everybody's done, we'll divide that number by hundreds on this site and we'll all share "our" money!!!!!!!!!!! AWESOME!!!!!!!
Lets just see what happens...what's the worst that could happen???? He is the Messiah right??? or the anti-Christ???? Who knows?

[bcmarinamanager]

For as long as we keep electing unemployed lawyers and carreer politicians
in office, nothing's gona change, we need accountants and economists

No we need small town working folks. Any one of us be a 1000% improvement. I'm starting here by running for a county commisioner seat here in my county this year. Watch for me in about 10 years to be in Congress or a Pres. bid!!

[reelapeelin]

Hey Reel, you missed my comment, what do you think about our Governor? Just curious


I am as in favor of a balanced budget as anybody and have long supported Sanford and his attempt to point out the pork and keep the books in order...

But now his grand-standing in order to define a platform for a run at the White House is pretty revolting...talk of laying off teachers in our schools while turning away money that we all will pay back eventually is disgusting and definately not in the best interest of our state.

I say lay off the politicians...we CAN do w/out them...we canNOT do w/out our teachers:devil:

[willy]

I don't know all the details of what is happening in SC but the Gov there from what I can see is doing what other Gov's are doing. They are keeping the federal gov from interfering in the running of the states.
My hat is off to him and the others for taking the political heat for not excepting money that comes with federal strings and tentacles attached.
That is one of the areas that the Obamination and his Soros backers are trying to ensure they have no problems with, States that actually feel like they know best what should be done in their states. States that believe in the 10th Amendment that tells the Federal Government exactly what it can do and what it cannot do as far as the States are concerned.
It seems some people recently elected and in full power of the Federal Government have decided that mere inconvienances like the United States Constitution should not be binding on he who is all knowing, all benevolent and all wise, he who is anointed should not have to deal with these things.
Well laying off teachers and cops and everything else that comes with tough times may happen and I am very sorry to see it if it becomes reality.
But it pales in comparison to the bigger story of the day, who believes in the Constitution and who is willing to let it go for political favors, for a mere pitance of the money our people have given to Washington to be doled out by the Righteous One as he sees fit.
And if your school system is anything like what it is up here there is plenty of money for teachers but the NEAA and their Union affiliates will have to sacrifice some of the tenured Administration positions in order to do right by the kids.
How much you want to bet they won't do it?

[THEFERMANATOR]

My father once told me that the US was in trouble because we quit electing self made people and started voting in likeable people. The problem is that the politicians make themselves likeable so they can get elected and that's it. His idea of a good president would be a president of a self made corporation where he knew what it takes to be self sufficient and build up a business from the ground up. NOT a lawyer who has made his living sucking the life out of business's and such. The US as a whole has lost sight of it's moral compass, and too many have flocked to the bird feeder. Time to take the bird feeder down.

[reelapeelin]

My father once told me that the US was in trouble because we quit electing self made people and started voting in likeable people. The problem is that the politicians make themselves likeable so they can get elected and that's it. His idea of a good president would be a president of a self made corporation where he knew what it takes to be self sufficient and build up a business from the ground up. NOT a lawyer who has made his living sucking the life out of business's and such. The US as a whole has lost sight of it's moral compass, and too many have flocked to the bird feeder. Time to take the bird feeder down.

Could not agree w/you more...you know my thoughts about it...I wanna THIRD Party based on shoveling the Bullsh!t outta our government...running the USA is too important a proposition to be influenced by politics and lobbyists...if we go along to get along and wait on the Reps or the Dems to straighten this mess out, it just ain't gonna happen:bsflag: