Well it begins

[tsubaki]

This is the end of private ownership of firearms in our country if passed.
H.R.45

Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 (Introduced in House)
SEC. 2. FINDINGS AND PURPOSES.


(a) Findings- Congress finds that--



(1) the manufacture, distribution, and importation of firearms is inherently commercial in nature;




(2) firearms regularly move in interstate commerce;




(3) to the extent that firearms trafficking is intrastate in nature, it arises out of and is substantially connected with a commercial transaction, which, when viewed in the aggregate, substantially affects interstate commerce;




(4) because the intrastate and interstate trafficking of firearms are so commingled, full regulation of interstate commerce requires the incidental regulation of intrastate commerce;




(5) gun violence in the United States is associated with the majority of homicides, over half the suicides, and two-thirds of non-fatal violent injuries; and




(6) on the afternoon of May 10, 2007, Blair Holt, a junior at Julian High School in Chicago, was killed on a public bus riding home from school when he used his body to shield a girl who was in the line of fire after a young man boarded the bus and started shooting.



(b) Sense of the Congress- It is the sense of the Congress that--



(1) firearms trafficking is prevalent and widespread in and among the States, and it is usually impossible to distinguish between intrastate trafficking and interstate trafficking; and




(2) it is in the national interest and within the role of the Federal Government to ensure that the regulation of firearms is uniform among the States, that law enforcement can quickly and effectively trace firearms used in crime, and that firearms owners know how to use and safely store their firearms.



(c) Purposes- The purposes of this Act and the amendments made by this Act are--



(1) to protect the public against the unreasonable risk of injury and death associated with the unrecorded sale or transfer of qualifying firearms to criminals and youth;




(2) to ensure that owners of qualifying firearms are knowledgeable in the safe use, handling, and storage of those firearms;




(3) to restrict the availability of qualifying firearms to criminals, youth, and other persons prohibited by Federal law from receiving firearms; and




(4) to facilitate the tracing of qualifying firearms used in crime by Federal and State law enforcement agencies.


SEC. 3. DEFINITIONS.


(a) In General- In this Act:



(1) FIREARM; LICENSED DEALER; LICENSED MANUFACTURER; STATE- The terms `firearm', `licensed dealer', `licensed manufacturer', and `State' have the meanings given those terms in section 921(a) of title 18, United States Code.




(2) QUALIFYING FIREARM- The term `qualifying firearm' has the meaning given the term in section 921(a) of title 18, United States Code, as amended by subsection (b) of this section.



(b) Amendment to Title 18, United States Code- Section 921(a) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:



`(36) The term `qualifying firearm'--





`(A) means--







`(i) any handgun; or








`(ii) any semiautomatic firearm that can accept any detachable ammunition feeding device; and







`(B) does not include any antique.'.



TITLE I--LICENSING

SEC. 101. LICENSING REQUIREMENT.


Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:


`(aa) Firearm Licensing Requirement-



`(1) IN GENERAL- It shall be unlawful for any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to possess a qualifying firearm on or after the applicable date, unless that person has been issued a firearm license--





`(A) under title I of Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009, which license has not been invalidated or revoked under that title; or






`(B) pursuant to a State firearm licensing and record of sale system certified under section 602 of Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009, which license has not been invalidated or revoked under State law.





`(2) APPLICABLE DATE- In this subsection, the term `applicable date' means--





`(A) with respect to a qualifying firearm that is acquired by the person before the date of the enactment of Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009, 2 years after such date of enactment; and






`(B) with respect to a qualifying firearm that is acquired by the person on or after the date of the enactment of Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009, 1 year after such date of enactment.'.

[tsubaki]

and for those of you who don't like to read:


H.R.45

Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 (Introduced in House)








(2) QUALIFYING FIREARM- The term `qualifying firearm' has the meaning given the term in section 921(a) of title 18, United States Code, as amended by subsection (b) of this section.



(b) Amendment to Title 18, United States Code- Section 921(a) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:



`(36) The term `qualifying firearm'--





`(A) means--







`(i) any handgun; or








`(ii) any semiautomatic firearm that can accept any detachable ammunition feeding device; and







`(B) does not include any antique.'.




`(aa) Firearm Licensing Requirement-



`(1) IN GENERAL- It shall be unlawful for any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to possess a qualifying firearm on or after the applicable date, unless that person has been issued a firearm license--

[tsubaki]

And don't try to read between the liberal lines and say this is for "gun dealers".
We already have laws in place that the "gun dealers" are having to comply with which is exactly the same as this bill.
This is to make the general population gun owners criminals if not complying to licensing.
This would be a direct second amendment violation if passed.

[nipper]

How does a requirement that a gun be licensed interfere with second amendment rights?

[tsubaki]

The person is to be licensed.
To be licensed you will have to be qualified not disqualified.
Which is in no way the same as a drivers license, had that national argument during the Brady bill fiasco.
And I do wish I was a little articulate when conversing over subjects, I apologize ahead of time for not being able to make a good counterpoint.

[cterrebonne]

when you think about it, more people are killed by cigarettes and alcohol than guns. therefore if i need a gun lisence then we all will need cig and booze liscenses. i like how the guy is using the poor kid that was shot on the school bus as a martyr for his poersonal agenda. Like said above, this is obvious a shoe in to ban all guns. at the end of the day guns do not kill people, people kill people. plus $25 every 5 years. plus i like how if you dont tell the aty gen you moved in 60 days they arrest you. what garbage. what people do not realize is that if there are no guns, people will still be murdered and crimes will still occur.

[Mac_Attack]

Keep posting, I'm not well informed about this. I am a hunter and support our right to own firearms. I don't know what impact the licensing(sp)would have. Post more please! Bill Mac :beer:

[tsubaki]

SEC. 102. APPLICATION REQUIREMENTS.


(a) In General- In order to be issued a firearm license under this title, an individual shall submit to the Attorney General (in accordance with the regulations promulgated under subsection (b)) an application, which shall include--



(1) a current, passport-sized photograph of the applicant that provides a clear, accurate likeness of the applicant;




(2) the name, address, and date and place of birth of the applicant;




(3) any other name that the applicant has ever used or by which the applicant has ever been known;




(4) a clear thumb print of the applicant, which shall be made when, and in the presence of the entity to whom, the application is submitted;




(5) with respect to each category of person prohibited by Federal law, or by the law of the State of residence of the applicant, from obtaining a firearm, a statement that the individual is not a person prohibited from obtaining a firearm;




(6) a certification by the applicant that the applicant will keep any firearm owned by the applicant safely stored and out of the possession of persons who have not attained 18 years of age;




(7) a certificate attesting to the completion at the time of application of a written firearms examination, which shall test the knowledge and ability of the applicant regarding--





(A) the safe storage of firearms, particularly in the vicinity of persons who have not attained 18 years of age;






(B) the safe handling of firearms;






(C) the use of firearms in the home and the risks associated with such use;






(D) the legal responsibilities of firearms owners, including Federal, State, and local laws relating to requirements for the possession and storage of firearms, and relating to reporting requirements with respect to firearms; and






(E) any other subjects, as the Attorney General determines to be appropriate;





(8) an authorization by the applicant to release to the Attorney General or an authorized representative of the Attorney General any mental health records pertaining to the applicant;




(9) the date on which the application was submitted; and




(10) the signature of the applicant.



(b) Regulations Governing Submission- The Attorney General shall promulgate regulations specifying procedures for the submission of applications to the Attorney General under this section, which regulations shall--



(1) provide for submission of the application through a licensed dealer or an office or agency of the Federal Government designated by the Attorney General;




(2) require the applicant to provide a valid identification document (as defined in section 1028(d)(2) of title 18, United States Code) of the applicant, containing a photograph of the applicant, to the licensed dealer or to the office or agency of the Federal Government, as applicable, at the time of submission of the application to that dealer, office, or agency; and




(3) require that a completed application be forwarded to the Attorney General not later than 48 hours after the application is submitted to the licensed dealer or office or agency of the Federal Government, as applicable.



(c) Fees-



(1) IN GENERAL- The Attorney General shall charge and collect from each applicant for a license under this title a fee in an amount determined in accordance with paragraph (2).




(2) FEE AMOUNT- The amount of the fee collected under this subsection shall be not less than the amount determined by the Attorney General to be necessary to ensure that the total amount of all fees collected under this subsection during a fiscal year is sufficient to cover the costs of carrying out this title during that fiscal year, except that such amount shall not exceed $25.


SEC. 103. ISSUANCE OF LICENSE.


(a) In General- The Attorney General shall issue a firearm license to an applicant who has submitted an application that meets the requirements of section 102 of this Act, if the Attorney General ascertains that the individual is not prohibited by subsection (g) or (n) of section 922 of title 18, United States Code, from receiving a firearm.


(b) Effect of Issuance to Prohibited Person- A firearm license issued under this section shall be null and void if issued to a person who is prohibited by subsection (g) or (n) of section 922 of title 18, United States Code, from receiving a firearm.


(c) Form of License- A firearm license issued under this section shall be in the form of a tamper-resistant card, and shall include--



(1) the photograph of the licensed individual submitted with the application;




(2) the address of the licensed individual;

[cterrebonne]

try this link mac
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.45.IH:

on face value it might seem harmless, but I really do not trust the law makers and they tend to be out of touch with planet earth. Plus we all have the right to bear arms not the right to pay to bear arms.

[tsubaki]

(3) the date of birth of the licensed individual;




(4) a license number, unique to each licensed individual;




(5) the expiration date of the license, which shall be the date that is 5 years after the initial anniversary of the date of birth of the licensed individual following the date on which the license is issued (or in the case of a license renewal, following the date on which the license is renewed under section 104);




(6) the signature of the licensed individual provided on the application, or a facsimile of the application; and




(7) centered at the top of the license, capitalized, and in boldface type, the following:



`FIREARM LICENSE--NOT VALID FOR ANY OTHER PURPOSE'.

SEC. 104. RENEWAL OF LICENSE.


(a) Application for Renewal-



(1) IN GENERAL- In order to renew a firearm license issued under this title, not later than 30 days before the expiration date of the license, the licensed individual shall submit to the Attorney General (in accordance with the regulations promulgated under paragraph (3)), in a form approved by the Attorney General, an application for renewal of the license.




(2) CONTENTS- An application submitted under paragraph (1) shall include--





(A) a current, passport-sized photograph of the applicant that provides a clear, accurate likeness of the applicant;






(B) current proof of identity of the licensed individual; and






(C) the address of the licensed individual.





(3) REGULATIONS GOVERNING SUBMISSION- The Attorney General shall promulgate regulations specifying procedures for the submission of applications under this subsection.



(b) Issuance of Renewed License- Upon approval of an application submitted under subsection (a) of this section, the Attorney General shall issue a renewed license, which shall meet the requirements of section 103(c), except that the license shall include the current photograph and address of the licensed individual, as provided in the application submitted under this section, and the expiration date of the renewed license, as provided in section 103(c)(5).

SEC. 105. REVOCATION OF LICENSE.


(a) In General- If an individual to whom a license has been issued under this title subsequently becomes a person who is prohibited by subsection (g) or (n) of section 922 of title 18, United States Code, from receiving a firearm--



(1) the license is revoked; and




(2) the individual shall promptly return the license to the Attorney General.



(b) Administrative Action- Upon receipt by the Attorney General of notice that an individual to whom a license has been issued under this title has become a person described in subsection (a), the Attorney General shall ensure that the individual promptly returns the license to the Attorney General.

TITLE II--RECORD OF SALE OR TRANSFER

SEC. 201. SALE OR TRANSFER REQUIREMENTS FOR QUALIFYING FIREARMS.


Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, as amended by section 101 of this Act, is amended by adding at the end the following:


`(bb) Unauthorized Sale or Transfer of a Qualifying Firearm- It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer a qualifying firearm to, or for, any person who is not a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, or to receive a qualifying firearm from a person who is not a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, unless, at the time and place of the transfer or receipt--



`(1) the transferee presents to a licensed dealer a valid firearm license issued to the transferee--

[tsubaki]

`(A) under title I of Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009; or











`(B) pursuant to a State firearm licensing and record of sale system certified under section 602 of Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 established by the State in which the transfer or receipt occurs;









`(2) the licensed dealer contacts the Attorney General or the head of the State agency that administers the certified system described in paragraph (1)(B), as applicable, and receives notice that the transferee has been issued a firearm license described in paragraph (1) and that the license remains valid; and







`(3) the licensed dealer records on a document (which, in the case of a sale, shall be the sales receipt) a tracking authorization number provided by the Attorney General or the head of the State agency, as applicable, as evidence that the licensed dealer has verified the validity of the license.'.



SEC. 202. FIREARM RECORDS.



(a) Submission of Sale or Transfer Reports- Not later than 14 days after the date on which the transfer of qualifying firearm is processed by a licensed dealer under section 922(bb) of title 18, United States Code (as added by section 201 of this Act), the licensed dealer shall submit to the Attorney General (or, in the case of a licensed dealer located in a State that has a State firearm licensing and record of sale system certified under section 602 of this Act, to the head of the State agency that administers that system) a report of that transfer, which shall include information relating to--





(1) the manufacturer of the firearm;







(2) the model name or number of the firearm;







(3) the serial number of the firearm;







(4) the date on which the firearm was received by the transferee;







(5) the number of a valid firearm license issued to the transferee under title I of this Act; and







(6) the name and address of the individual who transferred the firearm to the transferee.





(b) Federal Record of Sale System- Not later than 9 months after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Attorney General shall establish and maintain a Federal record of sale system, which shall include the information included in each report submitted to the Attorney General under subsection (a).



(c) Elimination of Prohibition on Establishment of System of Registration- Section 926(a) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by striking the second sentence.

TITLE III--ADDITIONAL PROHIBITIONS

SEC. 301. UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECK REQUIREMENT.



Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, as amended by sections 101 and 201 of this Act, is amended by adding at the end the following:



`(cc) Universal Background Check Requirement-





`(1) REQUIREMENT- Except as provided in paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer a firearm to any person other than such a licensee, unless the transfer is processed through a licensed dealer in accordance with subsection (t).







`(2) EXCEPTION- Paragraph (1) shall not apply to the infrequent transfer of a firearm by gift, bequest, intestate succession or other means by an individual to a parent, child, grandparent, or grandchild of the individual, or to any loan of a firearm for any lawful purpose for not more than 30 days between persons who are personally known to each other.'.



SEC. 302. FAILURE TO MAINTAIN OR PERMIT INSPECTION OF RECORDS.



Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, as amended by sections 101, 201, and 301 of this Act, is amended by adding at the end the following:



`(dd) Failure To Maintain or Permit Inspection of Records- It shall be unlawful for a licensed manufacturer or a licensed dealer to fail to comply with section 202 of Blair Holt's Handgun Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009, or to maintain such records or supply such information as the Attorney General may require in order to ascertain compliance with such Act and the regulations and orders issued under such Act.'.

SEC. 303. FAILURE TO REPORT LOSS OR THEFT OF FIREARM.



Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, as amended by sections 101, 201, 301, and 302 of this Act, is amended by adding at the end the following:



`(ee) Failure To Report Loss or Theft of Firearm- It shall be unlawful for any person who owns a qualifying firearm to fail to report the loss or theft of the firearm to the Attorney General within 72 hours after the loss or theft is discovered.'.

SEC. 304. FAILURE TO PROVIDE NOTICE OF CHANGE OF ADDRESS.



Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, as amended by sections 101, 201, 301, 302, and 303 of this Act, is amended by adding at the end the following:



`(ff) Failure To Provide Notice of Change of Address- It shall be unlawful for any individual to whom a firearm license has been issued under title I of Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 to fail to report to the Attorney General a change in the address of that individual within 60 days of that change of address.'.

SEC.

[tsubaki]

There are already laws in place that prohibit minors, the mentally incompetent and criminals form possessing firearms.
NOW this is a bill designed to make law abiding citizens ALLOWED to posses a firearm.

[cterrebonne]

There are already laws in place that prohibit minors, the mentally incompetent and criminals form possessing firearms.
NOW this is a bill designed to make law abiding citizens ALLOWED to posses a firearm.

thats pretty much what it comes down to, they should concentrate on making the penalties harsher for those who break the law than for those who abide. i cant wait untill i need a liscense for my fishing reels and poles.

[nipper]

You're right Tsubaki that it is the gunowner, and not the gun, which needs the license. I presume, however, that the gunowner would need a license for each qualifying firearm as defined in the act. I am not a gunowner (although I have no beef with law abiding persons owning guns whatsoever), so I am confused as to what qualifies as a qualifying firearm. The handgun part I understand, but the other part, i.e. "(ii) any semiautomatic firearm that can accept any detachable ammunition feeding device", means nothing to me. Is the bill only aimed at machine gun type weapons or is the definition much broader? Would the definition apply to common hunting rifles and shotguns?

Curious as to what you folks think of lawsuits against the gun manufacturers. The City of Gary, Indiana recently sued gunmakers, and the suit survived a Motion to Dismiss. Gary is or used to be the "murder capitol of the United States", and I guess the powers that be in Gary partially blame the gun manufacturers. I, personally, think the lawsuit is BS

[cterrebonne]

it seems that they would consider all guns with detetchable mags, even hunting rifles. keep in mind that a .308 caliber in an AR-15 platform makes for a popular hunting arm.

With the lawsuit it shows that people do not accept personal responsibilty for anything there. Why dont they sue car companies and fast food restauraunts in the city. It comes down to the fact that no one owns up anymore and that everyone else is to blame.

[tsubaki]

In most EVERY instance this bill applies to every gun owner.
First, ANY pistol.
Then ANY detachable magazine. This includes squirrel hunting rimfires to turkey shotguns to elephant killing firearms.
The term "antique" doesn't apply to stuff over 20 years old, like automobiles. Problematically "antique" will refer to reproductions of firearms made in the 1800's or newer, made this year (2009) that are capable of the same rounds per minute of "modern" firearms. And lets not get into antique pistols, "it's an antique" but "it's a pistol".
Machine guns are (have been since the 1930's) already regulated out of the general populations availability.
Read the bill, it sounds great to someone with no idea of the design of the Constitution. This bill would require you to be qualified to be licensed to own a firearm (in actually 2 of the 4 types ever developed) which currently is guaranteed in the second amendment.
You MUST be disqualified for possession of a firearm NOT qualified. Meaning by today's standards, underage, mentally incompetent or a criminal.

[willy]

This is exactly what many were promised (Brady Foundation, The United Nations Universal Gun Ban, a dozen other Socialist and extreme liberal organizations)
The title of this post is spot on, this man is a socialist, he follows a completely socialist agenda and the nation of our fore fathers and the liberties they fought for are in complete jepoardy.
This is not about change, this is not about democrat vs republican, this is about American vs socialist.
People need to see this for what it is
Thats all I am going to say about it, I am disgusted with what we have allowed to happen and can't do more than vote and call my Peoples Republic of NJ senators and congressmen, who are some of his most ardent suck arses.
God help us all.

[tsubaki]

Reading the bill further, this will prohibit anyone under the age of 18 to even possess a firearm. I know we're real backwoods in Georgia but many girls and boys under the age of 18 do hunt and target practice here.
Currently in this state anyone under 15 may not be in possession unless in direct supervision of an adult. 16 to 18 years old (you can drive an automobile), if in possession of a firearm, you must be engaged and in route to a firearms type event (hunting, target practice, etc).
This bill clearly states no one under 18 will be licensed or may possess a firearm.
And my whole ***** about this thing is, now I would be required to apply for a license to be able to carry out my SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS.
**** it, lets let them work on the First Amendment.
You think MJ is a dictating overlord??

And in my ignorance, I only posted 3 of the 9 chapters of this bill. Do go to the site and feel free to read more, it gets even better..............................
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.45:

[nipper]

Willy, this is not Obama's bill. He did not write it.

[Blue_Runner]

From what I can tell there is a lot of opposition to this. I'm going to say this bill will go up in flames (along with the author). Or lets at least hope it does.

[reelapeelin]

Let's make sure it goes up in flames...all of us concerned about this needs to use this link:

https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml

[reelapeelin]

Here's another one...

http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml

This'll contact them all...

[tsubaki]

I sat in my wife's uncles living room and told him "there is no way possible this "Brady bill" will ever become law"!
In the original version there were sentences of banning "military type" and "ominous looking in nature" type of firearms.
ALL firearms are ominous looking, and I'm still trying to find one type that has ever been developed that wasn't used by the military.

Wish I had your optimism Blue.
Got a lot more socialists in this ballgame than in the other one.

[tsubaki]

And willy, wipe your chin.
You got blood trickling down from biting your lip.

[tsubaki]

To follow the progression of this one.
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h45/show#comments

[tsubaki]

And you just don't have enough to get pissed at!

If you live in these states, you are required to destroy all non "encoded" ammunition by July 2011, if passed in your senate.
http://www.ammunitionaccountability.org/Legislation.htm
This site is designed FOR more imposed regulations on All handgun ammo and All "assault" weapons ammo (which we know includes everything else).
Basically after June 2009 all ammo will be encoded as to origination and final sales to person. Any non encoded sales are forbidden after this date.
An extra 5 cents per round tax will be imposed above the current "unseen" tax. In Georgia it's 11%.
Possession of nonencoded after July 2011 will carry a fine of $1000 for the first offense, $5000 for the second and $10k for the third.
http://74.54.61.131/images/misc/progress.gif

[spareparts]

I'm as scared of the liberal anti gun fanatics as any one, but I've been researching on the NRA website for a while and I haven't seen any alerts to any national legislation. The HR45 bill has been beat to death on serveral popular progun sites to the point that the administrator usually locks the thread after posting a link to all the other threads covering the same subject(the bill is over 5 years old and has been shot down several times). The gun shops are telling everyone that the sky is falling and you better buy your guns now, even at Wallmart, they are low on ammo. But when you go to the NRA's website, there is only a few state laws concerning guns that are being posted for review. I have to trust teh NRA to separate teh fact from fiction on the emails and anti gun scares I hear. I personally believe that the anti gun rights groups are going to keep trying, and I don't want to take gun ownership for granted, but for the most part, what we are hearing lately has been some creative marketing by gun manufactures and gun dealers to boost sales. I went inot a gun shop teh other day and overheard a salesman telling a customer that before long, you won't be able to buy new fangled high capicity, high power hand guns like the 1911 he was holding. I just looked at him, the elevated price tag on the Springfield he was holding, and turned and left, with my money.

[Blue_Runner]

Now that is some good and creative marketing right there!

[spareparts]

any of ya'll been in a guns shop lately? They won't even budge on prices, they are list price and some above depending on the demand. The DPMS Sportacal was nationally listed at a fixed price of under $800, shops around here have been selling them above $1000, with a waiting list. Before the election, 40 Glocks were in the 500-550 range, now they stickers are around 650+. The Kimbers have gotten higher(even though they are not high capicity), the TLEII was around $750-$800, In December they jumped to over $1000. Funny thing is, the less popular, but no less quality by any means, guns like the HK's and SIg's are still around their prices of a year ago. It grips my butt that shops I have traded with are gouging on their prices, its one thing to charge retail to make a living, its another to pad the prices based on false speculation and hysteria, sounds a lot the fuel prices from last summer.

[cterrebonne]

any of ya'll been in a guns shop lately? They won't even budge on prices, they are list price and some above depending on the demand. The DPMS Sportacal was nationally listed at a fixed price of under $800, shops around here have been selling them above $1000, with a waiting list. Before the election, 40 Glocks were in the 500-550 range, now they stickers are around 650+. The Kimbers have gotten higher(even though they are not high capicity), the TLEII was around $750-$800, In December they jumped to over $1000. Funny thing is, the less popular, but no less quality by any means, guns like the HK's and SIg's are still around their prices of a year ago. It grips my butt that shops I have traded with are gouging on their prices, its one thing to charge retail to make a living, its another to pad the prices based on false speculation and hysteria, sounds a lot the fuel prices from last summer.

tell me about it, the prices of ak's are well over 700, even the crappy yugo's they were only 200-300 before all that crap, even the sks's at least 400, thats a damn 100-200 dollar gun at its best.

[willy]

In regards to the SKS I agree, but would add the following, if you have the opportunity, buy the Russian version. All forged, no stamped parts, built like a brick shoot house will fire under just about any conditions and accurate to boot. I know I have one of each, chinese, which shoots darn good, was made for military before they became the rage here, shoots well and tough but compared to the Russian version it feels and looks like a cap gun.

[spareparts]

I guess it all boils down to every time I save enough money to buy that "toy" I want, everybody gets crazy about them and price skyrockets out of my range. It doesn't matter if its for my boat, truck, or any other hobby I have. Of course if I allready have one, no one wants them and they can be found everywhere for next to nothing, I guess I should start collecting turds.

BTW, if you know a FFL or C&R dealer check out http://www.samcoglobal.com/index.html

I'd love to have one of those Mausers or a K31

PS, Willy, I haven't heard a thing out of them lately, I think they went away, for a while anyway, nothing has shown up on our report, thanks for the advise.

[willy]

Good, Spare. Nice talking with you all, your wife seems like a nice lady.

[cterrebonne]

In regards to the SKS I agree, but would add the following, if you have the opportunity, buy the Russian version. All forged, no stamped parts, built like a brick shoot house will fire under just about any conditions and accurate to boot. I know I have one of each, chinese, which shoots darn good, was made for military before they became the rage here, shoots well and tough but compared to the Russian version it feels and looks like a cap gun.

i agree with you willy, it did look like a cap gun, but its amazing what a T6 stock with a scope would do to a sks

[tsubaki]

UuuOOOHHH
http://www.broc.state.ga.us/legis/20...ltext/sb12.htm (http://www.broc.state.ga.us/legis/2009_10/fulltext/sb12.htm)

http://www.legis.ga.gov/legis/2009_10/sum/sb12.htm

[bradford]

How long is America gonna sit here with a stupid look on her face?

A quote:
And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? After all, you knew ahead of time that those bluecaps were out at night for no good purpose. And you could be sure ahead of time that you'd be cracking the skull of a cutthroat. Or what about the Black Maria sitting out there on the street with one lonely chauffeur ***8211; what if it had been driven off or its tires spiked? The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! "If. . . if . . . We didn't love freedom enough. And even more ***8211; we had no awareness of the real situation. We spent ourselves in one unrestrained outburst in 1917, and then we hurried to submit. We submitted with pleasure! . . . We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward." (Note 5, page 13, Vol. 1,
The Gulag Archipelago (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060007761/lewrockwell/)
http://goldismoney.info/forums/images/misc/amazon_icon.gif (http://www.amazon.com/exe/c/obidos/) Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/exe/c/obidos/)
, by Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn)

[tsubaki]

And even more ***8211; we had no awareness of the real situation.

Sounds like the last election




honestly

[tsubaki]

And before you Goddamn democrats get you panties in a wadd, I'm talking the populous in general as to the candidates in hand.
We were sent NO usable candidates in the last election, this is all America is worth.
I thought we were all smarter than this, hopefully we will survive. I expect it, we have never failed.
Where is Charlie Daniels?

[bradford]

And before you Goddamn democrats get you panties in a wadd, I'm talking the populous in general as to the candidates in hand.
We were sent NO usable candidates in the last election, this is all America is worth.
I thought we were all smarter than this, hopefully we will survive. I expect it, we have never failed.
Where is Charlie Daniels?

I think I love you Tsubaki.

[tsubaki]

I apologize to ya'll.
The only things in life I do is, work, play with the grandkids, hunt & fish and anything related to hunting and fishing.
These attempted further restrictions on legal law abiding citizens to possess firearms and now ammunition has gone way past trying to "protect the children" or "save us from ourselves".
It has become a desperate attack on the Second Amendment by anti-gun Nazis.
Hopefully this is more stupidity that gets washed off the deck.
Somebody please tell me it will be alright and I'm just a paranoid closet Conservative!

[spareparts]

it'll be ok Tsubaki, you need to calm down a little, get your heart rate settled and practice two shot burst from 7 yards. Let me know if you need a pratice partner

[tsubaki]

I do think that is where the problem lies.
I just looked in inventory and got 680, 45ACP that have been neglected for a couple of years.
That should do the trick, thanks spare.