JohnRudes

[csvencer]

As I dig deeper into my disaster of a problem on the 150 I have I am starting to look at a whole new engine. There are a bunch of late 90's 150-200 JohnRudes out there that can be had for the same price as a rebuild. What's the difference between years? They are all mostly the 60 degree block with the same OIS system, are there any years to avoid?

-Svence

[Skools Out]

for your controls to work with out conversion stuff stick with 1996 and newer. If you buy a 150 or 175 like you have then you have a good spare parts motor. try to steer clear of the FICHT motors unless it has had injector upgrades and cmos updates.

[bigshrimpin]

Yeah . . . Stay away from ALL FICHTS.

97 -2001 (150 or 175 FICHTS)

[evilgli]

i always search for deals, but i have runa cross these engines all the time. thought maybe you might be interested.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2000-Johnson-Omc-150-hp-outboard-motor_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c66Q3 a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293 Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZit em270324012741QQitemZ270324012741QQptZBoatQ5fParts Q5fAccessoriesQ5fGear


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1999-Johnson-Evinrude-Omc-150-hp-outboard-motor_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c66Q3 a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293 Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZit em270323986468QQitemZ270323986468QQptZBoatQ5fParts Q5fAccessoriesQ5fGear

[csvencer]

Evilgli,
I have been looking at those, that 2000 looks a little pricey to me. And I don't think that is the right cowling for a 2000.

Found a couple for cheaper, anywhere from 2800-3900 for a 150, so I think that is the route I am going to go.

As for those who bash the VRO I was given this link from the THT, interesting read...

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/VRO.html

-Svence

[csvencer]

Also one other Q. As I look at rebuilt powerheads there is always a break at the 2000 mark, as 1996-2000 150's are this much, and 2001-2004 are this much, whats the deal with that? Are certain years going to burn more gas or be less reliable? I thought they were all pretty much the same.

-Svence

[THEFERMANATOR]

VRO CAN be a good thing, but it is just one more thing to give trouble. Yes the human error is the BIGGEST danger involved in it, as evidenced by what happened to yours. And I am VERY leary of electrical components that have been used around saltwater for years. SYSTEMS that rely on some sort of electrical input concern me ALOT in saltwater useage. To me it is simpler to just pre-mix and know it is there. There are a few systems out there I would trust, the VRO from OMC is NOT one of them.

[bigshrimpin]

Evilgli,

As for those who bash the VRO I was given this link from the THT, interesting read...

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/VRO.html

-Svence


I've read that article before and it's a good article. Oil injection adds lots of potential failure points. An intact properly maintained oil injection system might be very reliable. In reality the oil injection is usually not maintained and is the root cause of MANY MANY MANY engine failures. Why even chance it . . . when you can remove ALL of the potential hazards with 1 action. Simply eliminating the oil injection removes a dozens of potentially catastrophic hazards, the need to perform regular (and sometimes expense) time consuming maintenance procedures and inspections . . . when there is ZERO benefit to keep that "simple" (but not really) system operating properly. So in my uneducated opinion . . . . it seems like a NO BRAINER to yank that POS system off every two stroke CARB outboard and throw it in the trash!!! K.I.S.S. = the best outboard lesson ever taught.

[evilgli]

Evilgli,
I have been looking at those, that 2000 looks a little pricey to me. And I don't think that is the right cowling for a 2000.

Found a couple for cheaper, anywhere from 2800-3900 for a 150, so I think that is the route I am going to go.

As for those who bash the VRO I was given this link from the THT, interesting read...

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/VRO.html

-Svence

i have this article and read it several times. Svence, i still run my VRO system on my 1996 Johnson 150 and have no worries with it. i check my reservoir religiously and when it gets about half way down i fill it up to the top. about twice a month i look over the lines and connections from the reservoir to the engine.

i know alot of people hate the VRO system, and maybe one day i will too, but i like using it now and if it fails, such is life. but i know alot of people local that are using the VRO system and there engines are still running.

i think people are afraid of things they don't understand and repair. so they just remove or don't use it and feel better. but the system works and ALOT of people use it. but like it has been said, your system didn't fail, it worked fine up to the point that it ran out of oil.

[evilgli]

Evilgli,
I have been looking at those, that 2000 looks a little pricey to me. And I don't think that is the right cowling for a 2000.

Found a couple for cheaper, anywhere from 2800-3900 for a 150, so I think that is the route I am going to go.

As for those who bash the VRO I was given this link from the THT, interesting read...

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/VRO.html

-Svence


Svence, once you get things figured out and do what your going to do, if you need any help just hit me up. i'm pretty close to you and willing to help out.

[bigshrimpin]

i think people are afraid of things they don't understand and repair. so they just remove or don't use it and feel better. but the system works and ALOT of people use it. but like it has been said, your system didn't fail, it worked fine up to the point that it ran out of oil.

I think that is the underlying statement in the article, which I still believe entirely overlooks the reality that these oil injections are a MAJOR MAJOR cause of engine failure . . . whether or not it "coulda woulda shoulda" been avoided by a knowledgeable educated consumer, who "coulda woulda shoulda" inspected all the connections, failure points, etc and caught the problems with preventative measures. I've seen enough failed oil injection systems (mostly merc and yamaha), not to subscribe to that arm chair article. Oil injection introduces too many potential hazards that can take down even meticulously maintained outboards.

Recently I bought a blown 1997 Carb Merc 200hp. The oil injection screen was covered by a combination of the tin seal from the oil bottle and general crud in the tank. The clogged screen ran the pump dry and the rest is history. This is just one example.

[spareparts]

I was helping a freind of mine today getting his 26 Offshore up and running, it hasn't been run in over two years, has a pair of 1997 150 Mercs. everything else taken care of over the past two months,Has been running fine on the trailer, took off from the landing, went about two miles, and the port engine started sounding an alarm. Checked everything out, found the oil pump not pumping, the crank gear was stripped. I tried to talk him out of repairing the oil system and just premixing, but he wants the oil injection operating, so I'm pulling the powerhead next week to replace the oil gear. I allready warned him that the starboard engine will probably let go also, I guess I will do that one when it happens

[phatdaddy]

i'm still running the oil injection on my 94 merc(1400 hrs), but i carry a extra gallon of oil and at the first hint of a horn or hiccup i dump it in the gas tank. the bad thing is usually the first indication you have is a seized engine. i was talking to a engine re-builder at the miami boat show about 10 years ago and he said the 2 best things for his business is oil injection & thermostats.

[spareparts]

your engine, by being run on a regular basis, is probably less likely to fail than my freinds 150s, both of these engines have set for a while without being used. I once worked on the water taxi's 150 yamahas, I replaced the original impellers in them at 2000( 2 years old) hours, they get run every day, and except for some wear on the tips, they were still flexiable

[Skools Out]

i have this article and read it several times. Svence, i still run my VRO system on my 1996 Johnson 150 and have no worries with it. i check my reservoir religiously and when it gets about half way down i fill it up to the top. about twice a month i look over the lines and connections from the reservoir to the engine.

i know alot of people hate the VRO system, and maybe one day i will too, but i like using it now and if it fails, such is life. but i know alot of people local that are using the VRO system and there engines are still running.

i think people are afraid of things they don't understand and repair. so they just remove or don't use it and feel better. but the system works and ALOT of people use it. but like it has been said, your system didn't fail, it worked fine up to the point that it ran out of oil.


You can speak for others but i understand them as do the others that have commented. They are junk in so many ways for one that you and many others using them don't know most likely the VRO on OMC runs off the gray Tach wiring so if the tach misses or is off from your regulator which is a common issue with OMC You loose oil. They are crap as i have had several that the oil injection was off due to the voltage regulator. not new to this as i currently own 6 Johnson 225's , 2 Evinrude 140's and 2 Johnson 140's not to mention the other 10 or so i've had in the past few yrs and sold. The Merc's run a plastic gear on the oil pump which breaks and will still turn slow enough to give no alarm but will run the motor lean on oil so yeah it's death for the merc then. If you run the VRO on any 2 stroke other than the late model Yamaha's then it's only time till you spend money on a rebuild that just premixing would avoid.

this from Lord Skool's

[reelapeelin]

Spare, I can surely see your point about non-use contributing to auto-oiler failure...but on the other hand, many of the failures I've seen were on motors that were frequently used and well maintained...the plastic Merc gear Skools refers to above is a good example...and the 1st OMC oiler I saw go down back in the mid-eghties was a 175 hp Johnnie, well maintained and used several times a week...there are SO MANY different ways for theses systems to fail, it lead me to this rule; "if it ain't under warranty, premix the oil"...I would not buy a used motor that I could not disable the auto-oiler on...

[spareparts]

the plastic drive gears have several reasons to go out, sitting for long periods of time is probably the #1 reason. Apparently, the plastic gear sticks to the drive gear if left in place for a long tiem, the fisrt time you crank it up, it starts wearing the plastic gear, then by naot being run for a while, there isn't any lube on the gear that makes it wear more. We saw a lot of these on sport jet packages, they would get used in the spring, left alon for the reat of the season, then started again next spring, usually with some one revving the cold engine up to try and keep it running with the carbs stopped up. The next most common failure on the plastic gear was from the coupler that connects the shaft to the pump, there were about four years of prduction that the gear would swell up and stick itself, casuing the plastic gear to strip out. When I replace the plastic gear, I always replace the coupler as well. I had one guy that ran his engine hot(real hot), it was on a new mercury repower power head, it got so hot, it caused the gear to fail, his saving grace was it was still running on double oil for break in, as far as I know, that engine is still running( we changed it to premix after I told him his warranty had just expired due to abuse). It still suprises me that the after market hasn't come up with a brass replacement gear for the plastic one. The only time I will run oil injection for myself, is if the engine was recently rebuilt, and the gear was replaced, my 200 has the oil system disconected, if I ever go inot it, I might hook it back up. But there is still other reasons for the system to fail, those clear hoses that get brittle is probably the #1 reason.

[randlemanboater]

What is this VRO and premix you speak of?



:hide:

[THEFERMANATOR]

What is this VRO and premix you speak of?



:hide:

It's one of those things that us POOR people have to deal with since we can't afford any of these fandangled fo strokes.

[cterrebonne]

what is nice that on the newer 2's besides yamaha of course. they have the electronic oil pumps. im not really sure on the mercs but the etec's have a oil press switch which detects pulses in the line. therefore if the pump or the switch goes out it will let you know.

[Skools Out]

the older OMC products had electronic pumps and the V6's had the oil pressure switch that was usually by passed due to faults horns lol. they started those pumps around the early 80's.

[cterrebonne]

the older OMC products had electronic pumps and the V6's had the oil pressure switch that was usually by passed due to faults horns lol. they started those pumps around the early 80's.

OMC was the 1st to have electric shift too. and now is the only ones without it.

[THEFERMANATOR]

what is nice that on the newer 2's besides yamaha of course. they have the electronic oil pumps. im not really sure on the mercs but the etec's have a oil press switch which detects pulses in the line. therefore if the pump or the switch goes out it will let you know.

I believe it was 88 or 89 that OMC started the newer VRO2 that monitored the pulses. Like SKOOLS said though, early ones had no monitoring. Newer DFI engines use all electric pumps to meter the oiling now. ALL of the newer MERCS(including the regular EFI's) and the ETECS and later FICHTS have an electric pump and that goes directly into a distribution manifold that puts the oil staright to the bearings. It's going to be int5eresting to see how many powerheads fail once these electrical systems get to be 10+ years old and those pumps begin failing.

[bigshrimpin]

http://www.outboardexchange.com/225_evinrude/

We have remanufactured many of these outboard over the past 14 years. We found that the few failures with this class of outboards are due to fuel contamination or oil injection failure. As with all Evinrude outboards we build we have removed the oil injection. Fuel contamination can be prevented by installing a Racor filter and checking it regularly. They have stayed with this basic design (some ignition and cosmetic changes) for 25 years. We can build them 20” or 25’ shaft lengths.


Hmmmm . . . .

[csvencer]

$7200!!!! Thats crazy. Also aren't the 225's weighing it over 400 pounds?

-Svence

[THEFERMANATOR]

$7200!!!! Thats crazy. Also aren't the 225's weighing it over 400 pounds?

-Svence

$7200 is a bit high, but by the time you consider EVERYTHING that goes into doing a proper remanufacturing and all of the associated parts as well as labor it isn't as high as you think. Consider $3500 for a rebuilt powerhead, then the labor to swap it, then cleaning the carbs, repainting everything, changing the tilt tube out, verifying all aspects of the engine, core fees and etc and etc. $7000 comes up REAL quick! This is why so many people sell boats midway through a project. Whatever you think it will cost, multiply it by 2 at a minumum if you are doing the work, and 3 if you have somebody else doing it. It's not the big stuff that gets expensive, it's the details.

And yes they weigh in at 450-475 depending upon trim and options and shaft length. The 150/175 isn't that far behind it at 375. And the bigger 200/225's actually do as good on fuel at cruise as the 150/175's do. My 225 is burning about 12-12.5 GPH at 3900 whereas the 150/175's can suck down 10-13 GPH on the same size hull at the same RPM cruising slower. The later(93+) 200/225's are thirstier though.

[evilgli]

this seems pretty good. and local.

http://norfolk.craigslist.org/boa/989771584.html

[Steplift 72']

I've heard the pro's and con's of oil injection. I've personally owned 5 OMC's with VRO systems, after the first 3 motors had problems that would have killed the motors, I disconnected them. The last two were a pair of 1997 130 hp Johnson loopers, great motors and they never ran with anything but premix, I'd had all the fun I could stand with the first 3 motors which included a 150 crossflow and a pair of 140 Evinrude loopers. I love the OMC 2 stroke motors but have had 100% failure rate with the VRO. I never let it run dry, it just doesn't work and doesn't alarm until hours too late to save anything but the lower unit. I ran a neighbors boat which had a VRO system. I told him the motor seemed to be slowing down and I added a gallon of oil to the fuel tank. He said no problem, the VRO tank was full and no alarm, adding the oil probably ruined the plugs. On the second fishing trip later (once my gallon of 2 stroke oil was consumed) the motor siezed.