Prime Reason for self defense/ 2nd amendments righta

[cterrebonne]

shows how the system can be flawed at times.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/12/16/grace.coldcase.zimmerman/index.html

[randlemanboater]

Unfortunatly any system that has a human component has a big flaw.

God bless that girls family and friends as well as the 911 operator who has to live with what happened.

[C YENSEN]

yeah that sucks....make you wonder some time if you needed to call 911 what kind of person would be on the other side of the phone

[bradford]

People have home insurance, car insurance, life insurance, health insurance, fire extinguishers, first aid kits, emergency flares, emergency toolkits, cell phones, life alert, etc., but what are YOU gonna do RIGHT NOW if some thug (or more likely, group of thugs) kicks in your door WHILE YOU'RE READING THIS?

[bcmarinamanager]

Pull the slide and let 3 or 4 .40 hollow point rounds fly in the general direction of their heads! If they are still standing, I'd let go of a couple more to make sure they don't move anymore and grab my other clip to get ready to reload just in case. AFTER that, I'd call 911.

[cterrebonne]

thats why i like the alarm system at my place. you set it and when someone kicks in the door it gives you enough time to rack the gun.

[bcmarinamanager]

Mine stays loaded in a locked box beside my bed, it takes 10 seconds to open and grab my mini-led flash light. That's the nice part, it lights them up bright as day, and they can't see me to retaliate (sp?).

[shubey61]

3 Very large dogs & a loaded remington 870

[cterrebonne]

that flash light idea is really good. dogs are probably one of the best alarm/defense things you can have, not only can they warn but they can defend. i look at it this way once someone forces their way into your home, all bets are off.

[Pipe_Dream]

1. Alarm system
2. Dogs barking
3. Loaded .357 magnum and 12 gauge

I like the flashlight idea.
Oh, and I aim for center mass.

[bcmarinamanager]

I think the 12 gauge is more effective than anything else. Nothing clinches your butthole like a pump action shotgun cocking in a pitch black room you just broke into.

[cterrebonne]

I think the 12 gauge is more effective than anything else. Nothing clinches your butthole like a pump action shotgun cocking in a pitch black room you just broke into.

haha....you right the burgular must have a death wish to stay in the house after that sound.

[bcmarinamanager]

HAHA, yeah, usually if you hear that sound, it's the last you EVER hear. I figure at least with my Glock they would somewhat of a chance. I'm a pretty good shot, so they might NOT have any chance.

[spareparts]

I just recently completed the concealed carry class at a local gunshop. While I firmly understand that this is not nowhere near enough training needed for the responsibility for carring a firearm and the use of deadly force( I have signed up for more classes), I highly recomend taking these courses whether you carry, or own a fire arm. I learned a ton of valuable information from an experianced instructor( yes, it does depend on the instructor) that I hope will first, allow me to avoid a situation that calls for deadly force, second prepares me for use of deadly force if needed, third, teaches me to be able to make the correct choice of use, and fourth( but not finally) the legal implications of use of deadly force. I learned far more in that 8 hour course than i ever thought I would, and no, it didn't come from the books, but rather from the instrutor. I highly recomend taking these course(if available in your state) even if you chose not to carry, for no other reason to educate yourself, and to send the politicians a message that every carry permit issued, is a vote for responsible gun ownership.

BTW, for those of ya'll using a shotgun for home defense, take care in the loads you use, better yet, stack up 4 or 5 sheets of drywall and shoot it, see what happens and remember what may be on the other side of that wall in your house. Try to find a load that will not over penetrate, small birdshot will still carry a deadly load at short range

[willy]

Very Good Advise

I am a staunch 2nd Amendment Supporter, but what Spare is talking about should be mandatory for every American.

[bcmarinamanager]

Too true Spare. It is amazing how the laws are so stacked against homeowner who's home is broken into. I know in NC deadly force can be used if someone is in the process of breaking in, but as soon as they enter, you can not unless you have 100% positive proof they intend to do you harm with a weapon. The simple fact that someone is breaking in makes me believe they intend to do me harm. Maybe I'm just paranoid though :)

[willy]

That does not sound right BC.
Someone in the process of breaking into a home should not be what triggers an deadly response.
What all the courts have said for decades now is that if someone is damaging property or commiting theft deadly force would be unreasonable, in all our laws since Tennesee vs. Garner it is the reasonableness test.
Was it reasonable for you to be in fear for your life or serious bodily harm or that of someone else in your presence.
Was it reasonable to believe that that threat was real, present, iminnent and that the suspect had the capability to carry it out.
Was there a reasonable alternative considering the circumstances that you could have used.
Would it have been reasonable under the circumstances for you to retreat from the threat.
That is the one that people in their home have been given some leeway in some states and still an open question in some very liberal states.
Remember you always have to be thinking is what I am about to say(very important) and what I am about to do was watched on TV tonight would a jury of 12 say you did what was right. What was reasonable.
And always, always, always keep your mouth shut afterwards, do not say anything to anyone without having an attorney present with you PERIOD, i DON'T CARE IF CHARLES MANSON ESCAPED AND CAME INTO YOUR HOME AFTER BUTCHERING THREE PEOPLE ON THE STREET IN FRONT OF YOU SAY NOTHING UNTIL YOU HAVE YOUR ATTORNEY PRESENT. Always always attempt to render some form of medicall care for the poor son of a **** you just shot. Always always always call 911 for help as soon as you possibly can and be mindful of what you say to them.
If possible, feasable all ways be unarmed and clear to identify yourself when the police show up.
And if someone kicks in your door and grabs your TV and starts to leave, let him go, I repeat let him go, go to the store and buy a better newer one and enjoy your family and life for the next 2-7 years that you would have been tied up in court, crimninal and civil and buy yourself a 52 inch big screen and a new boat and a vacation with the money you will save not spending it on a lawyer. But if that sh!tbird advances to you or yours inspite of being warned to leave, to stop and you took steps backwards and he kept coming and YOU ARE IN FEAR FOR YOUR LIFE or that of your families, pick a spot center of mass and fire, do not shoot until empty, shoot until the threat stopped. Ensure there is no one else with him, cover him, disarm him if needed, call or hve someone else call 911 and say someone has been shot and needs medical attention and that the homeowner is rendering medical attention to him now, and stick a rag over the bullet holes and attempt at least to stop the bleeding, and more if you are trained to do so.
Then after a quick intro to the police when they arrive, you show them where you have placed your firearm and then you SHUT THE F@@@ UP AND SAY SIMPLY " I would like to have an attorney with me before me or anyone in my family says anything more about what happened"

If you guys have never listened to anything I have said to you, be sure at least this one is kept in mind, I love ya man

[bcmarinamanager]

Willy here is a direct quote from the NC Concealed Carry Handbook: "NC does allow the use of force up to and including deadly force against an intruder (GS14-51.1) to prevent a forcible entry into the home or residence or to terminate the intruder's unlawful entry if the occupant reasonably apprehends that the intruder may kill or inflict serious bodily harm to the occupant or others in the home or residence, or if the occupant reasonably believes that the intruder intends to commit a felony in the home or residence" NCGS 14-51.1 " Deadly force does NOT automatically allow deadly force against anyone unlawfully inside a home. A deadly threat is still required." So basically, when the intruder is still outside, a deadly threat can be assumed by the home owner since yo may not be able to tell if there is a weapon or not. But once the intruder is inside, you have to be proof positive he has a weapon. Retreat requirements do not apply inside the home in NCGS.

I agree completely with you on pretty much everything else Willy.

[spareparts]

"castle domain" is what you are refering to, interestingly enough, it also applies to your car or boat if you are in it(in SC any ways). But one of the points I was making about having a good instructor is pointing out just because you are within your legal rights, doesn't mean its a good decision. Like Willy said, let the punk have your TV,you can buy another one, but if he makes a step toward you or your family, drop him where he stands. there are a lot of assumed ideas about guns and their use that are myths, they can get you into a lot of trouble. I lived in NC for 30 years, alot of the stuff I was told about having a gun was incorrect. I don't remember everything from the class, I wish I did(thats why I'm taking more classes). My only critical opinion of the permiting process is the written test should be harder(its patterened after the Florida test). But I guess there is some layer out there that would sue because it would be too hard for acertain class or background of individuals to pass, creating a bias application process.

Willy, what do you know about the Utah class? Is it worth taking?

[willy]

BC that is exactly what I said, just put in a different form sentence. The felony referred to would be inflicting serious bodily harm upon you or someone else. Theft or property type crimes would not count, neither would just a defiant trespasser. Another words someone who you have told to leave. You would also have to believe REASONABLY that the intruder has the capability to commit the threat and that the threat is imminent.
All state laws have to follow the Supreme Court guidelines stated in Tennesee V Garner. They can make them more restrictive but must provide that standard as a minimum

And I do not know anything about those classes I am sorry.

[bcmarinamanager]

Oh no, I understand Willy, I was just giving you the actual NC General Statute about it. It's funny how you CAN use deadly force if someone is TRYING to break in, but once inside you CAN NOT unless the intruder is coming towards you with a weapon. You're very right about how easily one could get into trouble very, very fast in that situation though. If all else fails drop the a**hole then put a kitchen knife in his hand. lol Hey if you just shoot them in the foot or knee it's not considered attempted murder, so why not take out a knee cap??? You're not taking my 47"LCD bastard!!!! pow, pow....Just Kidding.

[spareparts]

In SC once the perp is in the house, in the car, or on board the boat, he's fare game, it also extends to your property and out buildings in some cases. There's also some stipulations regarding in or on your business property, even if the perp has a right to be there(employee issues). But as pointed out by my instructor, how do you think the guy feels that shot and killed the person breaking into his lawnmower shed after he found out it was his neighbors 13 year old kid. This was an actual case in Fl(which the sc laws are patterned after). The shooter was within his rights to protect his property against an "unknown threat to his castle domain", no chargers were filed, but it obviously was not the right thing to do. The instructor I had went deep into the ramifications of after the shooting to further educate us in the class, we went over several scenerios based on actual police files and investigations. I talked to the instructor after the class to some extent and he was telling me about some of the people that he had failed in the class(names with held of course). he told me its suprising how many people make the remark "now I can go kill somebody" after completeing the class, guess what, they just failed!

[randlemanboater]

I know from seeing it happen in my department, cops who kill someone in the line of duty usually end up out of law enforcement within a couple years of the incident, it is a career ender. Even when it is completely justified, killing another human takes a huge toll on you mentally.

BCM, read that G.S. carefully, it say that you can use "up to" deadly force "if" you fear death or serious injury. That is the same standard as for inside the house, or on the street, or anywhere. It is just worded a little different.