Yamaha Shift Shaft (Again)

[Monkey Butler]

Loking forward to next season so I decided to tackle the shift shaft on my '86 V6 Yammie before the snow flies. I've received help here before on this subject but looks but it looks like I could be facing a worst case scenario. I hate to be a nuisance but hopefully lots of pictures will make uo for it...

Here is an overall shot with some labels pointing to the areas I'll be talking about...
http://www.monkeybutler.com/help/1.jpg


Here is a closeup of the area designated "See Next Photo.

http://www.monkeybutler.com/help/2.jpg

This is the right rear where the block meets the intermidiate spacer. There is a chunk of the spacer missing. I think it was wedged off by the pressure generated by the corrosion that filled the bolt hole as I tried to remove the bolt. You can see the corrsion as a white/brown layer between the shank of the bolt and spacer itself. You can tell that I used plenty of heat.

This next photo shows where I tried the "drill holes into side of spacer to sever long bolts" method.

http://www.monkeybutler.com/help/3.jpg

I have two broken bolts on this side and one on the other side. Because the lower cowl is in the way I the closest I could get to the top of the spacer still leaves almost 1-1/2" of bolt shank in the spacer. Using a cheap engine lift didn't budge it. I could trailer it to a friends shop where there is an overhead hoist that could lift the entire boat but I have my doubts that even that would work.

So that leaves option two, which Big Shrimpin described but I'm having a hard time visualizing...

http://www.monkeybutler.com/help/4.jpg

Method two invlves taking a sawzall to the spacer which is likely my next step. I'm guessing at the red cut line shown above asonce again the lower cowling prevents going any higher. I having a hard time figuring out how to proceed around the front of the spacer where that steering arm and pivot are. Big Shrimpin???

Also, at one point it was brought up that it might be possible to replace the shift shaft withou powerhead removal on some Yamahas by removing the reed block. Here is a closeup of the area...

http://www.monkeybutler.com/help/s1

I don't think it's possible on this motor, a 1986 V6 Special (220HP). Here is another shot...

http://www.monkeybutler.com/help/s2.jpg

The head of the shift rod is buried right underneath the crackcase with less than a inch of space above it. Removing the reed block won't help.

And to all of you Veterans out there, Thank You for all that you have done for this country.

[macojoe]

You will have to get the power head off! No way around it!

Are all the bolts out or broken?? I wish I could be of more help, mine came right off with out anything breaking.

Good Luck, to much work for me these days!!

[Geekie1]

When you drilled into the intermediate spacer, did you drill deep enough to actually cut the bolts? Did the short bolts/nuts in the front and rear of the spacer come out? I believe there are 10 bolts, 6 long and 4 short. (As I recall, 2 of the short are studs in the power head with nuts.) If you did cut the bolts, and the short bolts/nuts are out, the power head should pull free of the spacer. The vertical holes in the intermediate spacer that the 6 long bolts go through into the block are tapered and has a much smaller inside diameter at the bolt head. This small I.D. is where the corrosion seizes the bolt shank causing the bolt head to break off. The I.D. of the tapered hole at top of the spacer where you drilled close to the block is about 1/3 larger and generally is not where the bolt seizes. I think your pictures are great but I can't tell from the pictures if the long broken bolts are actually cut. Since the tapered hole at the top of the spacer is a much larger I.D., you should be able to see if the bolts are cut. I don't know what type of drill bits you used, but what is recommended are "DeWalt Pilot Point Bits" in a 3/8" or 1/2" diameter. Pilot point bits have a different pointed end and don't tend to walk around like standard bits do. Also they have a hex shaft so they won't slip in the drill chuck. If you use a sawsall you will probably need to replace the spacer which makes for a longer job. I hope this helps!!!

Geek

[Geekie1]

Your 2nd picture shows the break away and the exposed corrosion. Is that the only broken bolt that is exposed? The corrosion looks like aluminum oxide. I have heard that straight chlorine bleach dissolves aluminum oxide. I would hit that corrosion with bleach to dissolve it. If all the bolts are indeed cut, that exposed bolt with aluminum oxide corrosion may be all that is holding it.

Geek

[cterrebonne]

heat, hoist, prybar.

[Skools Out]

heat, hoist, prybar.

I second that

[THEFERMANATOR]

heat, hoist, prybar.


And don't forget the BFH.

[bradford]

And don't forget the BFH.


My favorite tool!

[Monkey Butler]

Thanks guys...

Yep, I have drilled completely through the bolts. I can see the outline of the shank in each hole and you can just "feel" when the bit stops chewing on the SS and bites into straight aluminum.

And now that you mention it I think I remember hearing about bleach on AlOx. I ventured into the forbidden sector (laundry area) to look for some but I found about 12 different scented fabric safe whiteners and brighteners and whatnot but nothing look or smelled like real bleach. I'm stopping to get some on the way home.

There are precious few palces where you can gain leverage to pry on the head. The damn lower cowl is flimsy and in the way of everything. It's working against me like one of those cones you put on your dog so he can't chew his a$$.

So hopefully next weekend I'll be able to hook it to a trolley hoist and apply lots of heat and pry and my BFH. Well every time I get out my BFH bad things usually happen...

http://www.monkeybutler.com/help/bfh.jpg

[cterrebonne]

yes yamaha's have that dumb design with the solid cown that omd did away with a long time ago. with a hoist and heat you will start to see it seperate and you'll be able to slide a prybar into there.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Before you go cutting with a sawzall, I would get a GOOD 1/4" die grinder and a carbide bit and go in and relieve the housing around the broken bolts. You should be able to use a 2" long cutting bit and go in there and remove some of the aluminum and relieve some of the pressure locking those bolts in there. It looks like your going to have to replace the adapter anyways, so at this point why not just cut her up and make less work for yourself.

[parishht]

If the bolt heads are accessible, why not grind them away
and then dissassemble the unit and then work the bolts out?

[cterrebonne]

the shanks of the bolts are sticking in the mid plate.

[THEFERMANATOR]

If the bolt heads are accessible, why not grind them away
and then dissassemble the unit and then work the bolts out?

I believe they have already broken off. That is why he drilled through them to cut the bolts in half up higher.

[Monkey Butler]

Before you go cutting with a sawzall, I would get a GOOD 1/4" die grinder and a carbide bit and go in and relieve the housing around the broken bolts. You should be able to use a 2" long cutting bit and go in there and remove some of the aluminum and relieve some of the pressure locking those bolts in there. It looks like your going to have to replace the adapter anyways, so at this point why not just cut her up and make less work for yourself.

Ferm, you are a real man of genius. Got some carbide burs at work...

http://www.monkeybutler.com/help/g1.jpg


They have 4" long shanks which lets me get real close to the block...

http://www.monkeybutler.com/help/g2.jpg


I think I'll try to grind right through the bolts and leave about 1/2" to grab onto when I remove the stubs from the block. And yeah, the adapter is going to be pretty chewed up by the time I'm done and I will need to replace it. At this point I'd go the sawzall route if I was sure that I wasn't going to cause damage to other parts. The controlled demolition with the bur seems like a safer choice.

For those of you tuning in late, three of six long bolts that hold the powerhead on are sheared at the head. The problem is about 6 inches of the shank is frozen in the adapter plate by corrosion, pinning the block to it.

[Skools Out]

not to throw a wrench in but have you checked for a new adapter plate yet? i need one for my 92 Johnson 225 and no longer avail. plus the cost new was like $600+ so it's not worth it. :head:

[Geekie1]

The part and price you need can be found at boats.net. (Central Florida Yamaha) URL below. I have bought alot of parts from them and I find their services, prices, to be very good.
Their prices seem to be considerably less than purchasing from my local Yamaha dealer in PA, or NJ. You may want to check in with Ebay or Boat Recyclers of Wilmington to get a used part. I have the URL's for about 6 or 7 more outboard junkyards on the east coast. Let me know if you need them.

Geek

http://www.boats.net/_search/partssearch.lasso?Manufacturer=Yamaha&Catalog=Outboard&Year=1985&Model=20106%7C%7C150ETXK

[Geekie1]

The URL's for the used parts are below. I hope this helps.

Geek

http://www.outboardsalvage.net/
http://www.marine-parts-outlet.com/index.htm
http://www.hardcoremarine.com/
http://www.anythingmarine.com/
http://www.allstates.com/hardcore.html
http://www.boatmotorrecyclers.com/
http://www.seatemp.com/index.html?lang=en-us&target=d198.html

[Skools Out]

i looked at that link Geekie1 posted first and no midsection parts listed there, good luck hope you can find one, like i say never found one for mine. but mine was a Evinrude or Johnson 225.

[THEFERMANATOR]

I think he already has the part, looks like he got it from BS.

http://www.wellcraftv20.com/community/showthread.php?t=9969

[Monkey Butler]

I think he already has the part, looks like he got it from BS.

Actually, I never hooked up with BS. Totally my fault, I got sidetracked with other things and didn't follow through. I'm hoping he still has it though. Taking it to PM.

[Geekie1]

Sorry Schools, but if you look in "Component" and then pick "Upper Casing" you will find item 1 - "Casing Upper" - $310.97 Unless I am mistaken, that is the entire assembly. I have found that the Yamaha parts drawings on early Yamaha V6's to be not clear. However, calling Boats.net to describe what you need has always gotten me the right part. About 5 years ago I needed an oil controller and as it turned out, I thought my Yamaha was a 1986. As it turned out, the 1985 oil controller's wiring harness was much different than the 1986. I called them and described what I needed and they determined that I had a 1985 V6. I got the right part.

Geek

[Monkey Butler]

not to throw a wrench in but have you checked for a new adapter plate yet? i need one for my 92 Johnson 225 and no longer avail. plus the cost new was like $600+ so it's not worth it. :head:

It looks like I'm on the hunt for one. Do you still have the motor Skools? If you are still looking for one I'll ask while I'm calling around.

[Monkey Butler]

Success! I used the burs to grind of the bolts closer than I could get with the drill. Finally, a little daylight...

http://www.monkeybutler.com/help/Y1.jpg

The powerhead was still stuck and with no place to pry I came up with a jackscrew jury rig using a 1/4" extension and one of the powerhead bolts. Backing out the bolt forced the powerhead up...

http://www.monkeybutler.com/help/Y2.jpg


Old hole below, new hole above. Really needed to get this close...

http://www.monkeybutler.com/help/Y3.jpg


Free at last, free at last...

http://www.monkeybutler.com/help/Y4.jpg


Bolt was literally cemented into the hole...

http://www.monkeybutler.com/help/Y5.jpg



Hopefully the worst is over. Now to find a replacement adapter. As a last resort I think it might be possible to salvage this one. I'm trying to decide if I want to make this a winter project and pull the rest of the motor off and do paint and whatnot.

Thanks everybody for the help and advice. It is appreciated!

[bigshrimpin]

Not mine . . . but here's a parts motor.

http://boston.craigslist.org/sob/boa/920501895.html

Yamaha VMax 175 (Plymouth)
Reply to: [email protected] [?]
Date: 2008-11-15, 3:43PM EST


1997 Parting out whole motor Lower unit (gear case)
Stainless steel prop
Power trim
Cowling
CDI..
Mid section...everything let me know what you need

[Skools Out]

thanks for asking but no i gave up i do still have the motor but i just bought another motor. kept the power head as a spare. good luck with yours and glad it's apart but the hard part is still to come getting off that adapter plate will be even harder.

[Monkey Butler]

...but the hard part is still to come getting off that adapter plate will be even harder.

Well Skools it was stuck to the lower about as ba as to the powerhead but with more room to work I was able to go to town with the BFH and beat it into submission...

http://www.monkeybutler.com/help/x3.jpg

I spent Saturday afternoon pulling the motor off of the boat in pieces. It was cold and windy but I now have everything in my garage where the kerosene heater at least makes it comfortable...

http://www.monkeybutler.com/help/x4.jpg


I tore everything below the powerhead apart and found a broken motor mount...

http://www.monkeybutler.com/help/x6.jpg


and a broken tuner...

http://www.monkeybutler.com/help/x5.jpg


I found someone online who has a used exhaust adapter and some other parts, waiting to hear back with a price. Here are a couple of pictures of the shift rod that started the whole project...

http://www.monkeybutler.com/help/x1.jpg


http://www.monkeybutler.com/help/x2.jpg


It may have lasted another season or two or it might have outlasted the motor but the omen of the thing breaking was more than I wanted to deal with.

I'm going to try to repaint everything and hopefully have it all fresh n' minty for spring.

[macojoe]

Wow better you then me!! Well the hard part is truly done now!! I am sure all will be perfect come spring!! Congrats!