Ok Merc issues

[macojoe]

Ok motor started perfect at the ramp, we headed out, got about 5 miles out and it started to bog down?? Then it stalled? I restarted it and it stayed running, but after I took it down from 5000 to 4500. Then it cleared up and ran fine all day.

Then as you can see in the pictures it seemed to run hot all day?? The new Tstas were opening and it was peeing but always hot? This was trolling all day at 5mph, is this normal?? Should I take the Tstas back out?

Time to go home hit the throttle and got her to 4500 hot water went away in seconds, about half way in again it started to bog down?? Never stalled but would bog up and down for the next few mies thwen it clweared up and we were home.

What we did to the motor in Juy, changed the stator, a coil, recterfier, rebuilt the fuel pump - the ck vaules, cleaned all carbs and put all new gaskets.
Stator, recterfire, coil were used parts, the rest new.

CB and Mark both think it was a fuel issue?? The gas filter is there from the beginning of the season, 40 gal gas in it from 8/1 till now and I added stabil and another 60 gal gas before we went out.

Motor sounded great at 4500 and was pushing the Ox 4 guys all gear and 110 gal gas to 23 mph at 4500. My friend Mark said it was the best sounding Merc he has ever heard!! CB and I agreed, just need to fix this stuff!!
I like to get it fixed before I put it away for the winter so there is o problems when spring comes.

So what you guys think??

Thanks!

[bigshrimpin]

MJ - I think it's bogging cause it's not getting the fuel it needs at higher RPM (above 4500). Whether it's the fuel pump, carbs, or some restriction b/w the tank or motor . . . We'll have plenty of time to go through the entire system this winter and replace/rebuild everything. Those motors run HOT at lower speeds, you can add a H20 pressure gauge and a temp gauge to ease you mind. I run snipped tstats during the warm months, so the motor runs colder and pees right away . . . but you can flood the motor when starting (as I showed you almost everytime we went out) Hopefully Spares or Ferm will come along and chime in here.

[chumbucket]

MJ - I think it's bogging cause it's not getting the fuel it needs at higher RPM (above 4500). Whether it's the fuel pump, carbs, or some restriction b/w the tank or motor . . .
That's pretty much what I was saying. At speed I felt the primer bulb and it seemed to me that when the motor bogged, the bulb went a bit soft. Then it filled and hardened again. The only doubt I had was that it didn't seem to make a difference whether I squeezed the bulb or not. The motor would still quickly drop RPMs, then pick right up again.

[bigshrimpin]

MJ - Don't forget to remove that saltwater sprinkler system showering the motor while underway :)

[THEFERMANATOR]

My MERC ran just shy of 165 while trolling. At 2800 RPM's the temps would drop way down, but from 1000-2800 she ran about 160 and idle would run 145-155. Loopers need to run on the hot side at low RPM's to keep them from fouling plugs and burn the fuel. First thing is to take your filter off and drain it into a can or something and see what's in it. Also drain the float bowls on the carbs to see if some water made it into them. Did anybody try pumping the primer bulb when it would bog down? What kind of pump does that MERC have? The early MERCS had a big funky looking pump that would often fail, the later square ones are said to be ALOT more reliable.

[spareparts]

if it didn't make any difference when you squezed the bulb, then push the key in to chole the motor, if it picks up, you have a fuel issue between the fuel line and the intake, if it bogs down when you push in the key switch, it sounds electrical

[macojoe]

So the heat issue is normal, ok I just wanted to make sure!!

Therm, I planed on doing the filter and bowls, I am also going to replace the filter. The fuel pump is big and weird shaped so it must be the old one as you say??

Thanks spare thats easy ton do, thanks when I get it in the water thats just what I will do, if and when it bogs down again.

Ok Bs hurry up over!!:love:

Thanks guys!!

[phatdaddy]

MJ. second what ferm said, my merc runs 15 to 20 degrees hotter when between 1500 & 2500 rpms. they really don't seem to like trolling. I'm assuming you taken the oil injection system off, if not , that might be a prob. on hitting the choke, not sure if those carbs have a butterfly or a gas pump that pumps a shot of gas to the carb. might make a difference to what spare was checking

[THEFERMANATOR]

Old style MERCS used the actual choke butterfly's. If it is an enricher style with the fuel solonoid, then it won't work if fuel pressure isn't present.

[macojoe]

no oil injection, all taken off and mix 50:1

87 175 2.4

[bigshrimpin]

Oil injection was removed and it's got the enrichner. It's a mid 80's merc.

[spareparts]

Good point Ferm, If it bogs down the engine when you push in the key switch, then you know its not fuel, if it doesn't do anything, it could still be fuel, your not getting it to the enrichener as well as the carbs. If it picks up when you hit the enrichener, then you know its down stream of the enrichener

[macojoe]

Ok I bought new replacement filters today, man the racore are $$$ $20 each I bought 2

I will replace toward the end of the weekend because of the rain. I will be sure to ck to see if there is any water in the old?

[THEFERMANATOR]

Your lucky MJ, the RACORS for my OMC filter mount are $47:nut:.

[macojoe]

Ok I took the filter off and there was no water at all!!

BUT what I did find was a bunch of metal shavings??? When I say a bunch ity was not loaded but there were more then just a few pieces, and how much was stuck in the filter I have no idea??

I am waiting for a friend right now and we are going to take it for a ride.

But with metal shavings in the plastic bowl that you drain, do you think it got to the motor or fuel pump, and carbs??

not sure how these filters work?

[randlemanboater]

How'd you get metal shavings in your gas?

[macojoe]

Well I took the boat for a long ride and still have the same issue t times??

then push the key in to chole the motor, if it picks up, you have a fuel issue between the fuel line and the intake, if it bogs down when you push in the key switch, it sounds electrical

when I pushed the key in, it bogs down and stalls if I hold it there long enough??

I am also still worried about how hot this thing is?? Even at a 7 miletun at 4500 rpm's as soon as you slow down seconds after there is steam coming out?

Did I say I love Merc's yet today :head:

[THEFERMANATOR]

The steam isn't a big deal MJ, get a temp guage and check it. Anything under 170 is pretty well normal for a MERC at low RPM's. Even my EVINRUDE in 65 degree temps will have alot of steam coming off the water from the piss tube. Sounds like you need to get BS over for a ride though.

Have you had the cowlings off of the engine yet? Check it for any restrions or such in the cowling or by the carbs. You may have an air blockage to the engine causing it to run rich since you said pushing the choke bogged it down. Theres also a chance you have some trash caught in one of your needle and seats causing this since all of the debris you mentioned in your filter. How do the plugs in it look? Try running it in the water under load and shut it down while your running on plane. Then go back and pull the plugs out. This will help you to figure out if you have a cylinder loading up or not.

[spareparts]

what exactly did it do today, leave the temp issues out of the description( I agree with Ferm, doesn't sound liek anything is wrong there). it doean't sound like its runnig rich, sound more like an intermittant ignition issue, but with out running it myself, it would be hard to tell

[macojoe]

After finding the metal shavings in the filter I was thinking this was the problem? So I drained the gas from the filter to see if there was any water, there was none.

Took it for a ride, started right up, and we idled out of the harbor. Got pass the no wake area and opened her up, she went fine for like 2 mikles or so. Then I could feel her sputter a little and lose rpm's
At first I was thinking that maybe the shifter was backing down its self, but that was not the case.
drove out about 6 miles and it was sputtering on and off the hole way. Got out to a light house were some guys were fishing for tog, shut her down while I asked how the fishing was, They said it sucked and I wasn't missing anything!

So I started her up and she was on like a light switch and off we went. after about 1 mile we started the process all over again?? Then I remembered about the key switch, so I pushed it in and it got worse, I held a little long at one point and stalled the motor.
Started her right up and came the rest of the way sputtering all the way.

It would go again for a few seconds then it would start breaking up again, after a few min it would go good again then replete.

Thanks guys

[spareparts]

go back thru the fuel system again just to be on the safe side, pull the carbs down and blow them out again, you might have picked up some trash. Make sure you check the float levels(been there, done that), make sure they are not too low. Once you fell the fuel system is ok, take a hard look at the stator, sound like the high speed windings may be going out. I know you and BS swaped out a bunch of the ignition earlier, was that new stuff you ended up with on it? Oh, and don't forget to check the things we all forget about, battery cables, ground connections, harness conections, kill switch, etc.. BS, you got another boat harness you can plug into the motor to eliminate the harness side/kill circut?

[THEFERMANATOR]

Sounds like MJ needs to start with step #1 of engine diagnostics. Get you a remote tank and hook it up with 5 gallons of fresh gas and see what happens. This way the shavings and possible fuel restriction can be eliminated. Drain the float bowls and try to catch it so you can see if metal made it that far. The metal in the filter makes me think you have debris in the anti-drain back valve(if you have one) or something in the fuel pick-up tube.

[macojoe]

Yes I agree. Last fall when I bought the boat the guy told me that the gas tank did not work?
I took the floor up and cleaned all gas out and dryed the tank to be sure I got every thing out and it was clean.
Then I replaced all hoses and doubled clamped them. Whenn replacing the hose to the vent, I found the vent all rotted and not even there anymore, just a hunk of white crap. There was the proble all along.

Since then I added the racor and have had no problem all May,June July. But that is when I added the Mercury (LOL) all parts that BS changed when trouble shoting the motor before were used parts, so there could be issues there as well. He did test things with a meter and checked all numbers with the book to besure they were with in spec's.

Man I wish I could just buy a new motor and be done with this stuff for a while!! Its feast or famon here at my house!! Last winter I was loaded!! Bought all new eletronics, hard top, and a bunch of other stuff. This year I am pooer then dirt!!

[THEFERMANATOR]

This year I am pooer then dirt!!

Sounds like your ALMOST as broke as I am.

[macojoe]

Well I see nothing from the tank to the motor??? I was good, But I will have to wait for help to go any further.

I never did look at that new filter before installing it, I have had on more then one occasion bought auto parts that had shavings from being made in them, I wonder if thats the case with the filter housing?

I don't think is anything from the tank to the motor. But fuel pump on I have no idea?
We did rebuild the fuel pump with a kit, the only thing that we did not change was the ck vaules?
We had all the carbs off, cleaned, and BS checked all the setting I assume? and we put all new gaskets.

well I think I am going for another Tuna if the weather holds out on wed.? Sputter or no sputter!!

[macojoe]

O yea. gas tank Galv, and shavings did not stick so must have been stainless or Alum? from were is anyone's guess?

[phatdaddy]

MJ, not to derail on the fuel issue, do you have steam coming out of the pee hole or water with steam rising off it? i re read some earlier post and noticed you stated steam. are you hi temp sensors working?

[macojoe]

Can someone pass me a gun PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!

Long story short I have no gauge hooked up. :cen: Does anyone know the right wire for the temp?? BS said Tan or Tan with Blue strip?? he wasn't sure??

[spareparts]

alarm circut is tan with a blue stripe, just ground the tan/blue wire with the key on and it should sound the alarm. Tan wire is for the guage. If you have the time, replace the alarm sensor in the head, make sure you clean out the hole it came out of, you never know just how old that sensor is. You can check the sensor with an ohm meter and a pot of hot water on the stove, just hook the ohm meter leads to each wire, put the meter on Ohm or diode check, drop it int hte water making sure the wires don't touch or come in contact with anything that will conduct, turn the stove on adn wait for the connection to be mae, check the temp with a thermometer

[macojoe]

Thanks Spare, I don't think there is even a alarm horn installed in the boat? That is the day BS had to bring me to the hosiptal and he put the controlls and stuff in all by himself.
He was in NH this week end so I try to get him on the phone tomorrow.

[chumbucket]

You want I should bring a gun? :nut:

[macojoe]

if you want, but i rather you bring your hands to help with a few things! How about Tuesday??:love:

[macojoe]

Ok I looked up the SS# and it seems that my motor is a 1985, not 1987 like I thought it was, just incase this makes a difference.

[chumbucket]

if you want, but i rather you bring your hands to help with a few things! How about Tuesday??:love:
I'd rather bring the gun. :bat:

[spareparts]

find the alarm under the dash, it should have a purple wire(key on power) hooked to one side, make sure it has 12 v when you turn the key on, then it should have a tan/blue wire hooked to the other lead, when grounded out, this wire comepletes the circut, sounding the alarm. You can make one using any kind of 12 volt, l,ow amperage, horn or buzzer, seen people use seat belt buzzers before, just make sure its loud enough for you to hear it while underway, and always check the circut by grounding out the wire back at the sensor, with the key on, to check the alarm. If you feel real adventurious, you can hook a red light to the alarm as well and mount it in the dash to give you a visual warning as well, just wire it in parallel with the alarm

[chumbucket]

Like I told you over the phone. Stop fixating on the temp problem! Worry about that later. The sputtering of the motor is not related to the motor running hot at low RPMs. The sputtering, bogging, cutting out (whatever you want to call it) only happened at higher RPMs when the motor is running at it's coolest. The problem never materialized at trolling speeds. You either have a fuel problem with the pump or something in the the carbs like a blocked jet. If not, then it's electrical.
For all your worrying about the higher temps at trolling speed, that motor ran at trolling speed for close to five hours and never once missed a beat. Worry about the other problem first. One thing at a time.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Trying to get a few more details here MJ.

When the problem occurs it is at high RPM's correct?
What happens if you come off plane and run it for a few minutes and then get back on plane?
Does the problem immediately return or does it take a few minutes again? What happens if you go WOT?
How many RPM's is it actually dropping when this happens?

The more I think about your problem, the more it sounds like a restriction going into the float bowl in front of the needle and seat. This would cause it to run good for a minute or 2 until the fuel level in that bowl drops below a certain level. Then it would go to missing. If when you come off plane for a few minutes it comes up and run's normal again I would check for a blockage in one of the carb inlets, or possibly a blockage in front of one of the main jets. To check for a blockage going into the carbs. Drain the bowls out and leave the drain plugs out. Get somebody to pump the primer bulb and look for fuel to come out. You want to look for the drain that doesn't have much fuel coming out of it. If they all drain out the same amount then it could still be a blockage in front of the main jet.

I've seen this happen before on a few occasions where you have a fairly large piece of debris floating around in the carb bowl. It takes sometimes 30 seconds, sometimes 5 minutes for the debris to cover the main jet over. A blockage in the needle and seat entrance will normally take the same amount of time every time for the problem to occur.

[macojoe]

CB :shut:


Ok BS came by today and just left. We found that one ck vale in the fuel pump was sticking so we changed it out, seems fine now.
There was no metal shavings of any kind on the pump screen so i guess they never got by the Racor.

We had a hose getting kinked some when the linkage was at wot and we fixed that also. We drained the bowls but did not do the test you said as I did not read this before hand.

Plugs are pretty dirty and replaced. The motor starts like a dream and idles fine!! BS felt the water and said I am good to go! I still hate how hot it is but everyone says its good then it must be!

When we had the carbs off before we cleaned the crap out of them and set the floats, and reinstalled, and since tere was nothing on the pump screen I am sure they are still that way, At least I hope so??

We really don't think its a fuel issue at this point?? But I have not put the boat in the water yet to see if anything we did today helps??
I will try to get out tomorrow to test it and see, I will also try your test to see if it is something there. When I came down to plane before it would clear up and when I gave it gas it would started immediately again.
But waited to start for a mile or so when it would first show up.

I am hoping it was something we fixed today?

[macojoe]

O yea only happens at high rpms, 4000 and above. when it happens I lose 1 to 500 rpms, mostly it starts losing 100 and goes to 500 as you go. I just give more gas to get them back up but still sputtering.

see what happens tomorrow? Thank

[THEFERMANATOR]

Does it eventually smooth out and sound like it has lost a cylinder? This sounds an awful lot like a fuel issue where your losing one cylinder. Although it could easily be a switchbox or stator issue. When it does it next time shut it down while it's doing it and go back and pull all of the plugs out. Look for the one that looks like it's not firing or out of the ordinary. If they all look uniform, but the problem is still there I would suspect the stator's high speed side. If one of your plugs looks really light in color then you know which carb to check. If one plug looks wet or fouled then check the ignion for that circuit. You need to isolate the problem so you know which are to address.

[macojoe]

Will do!! I changed all plugs today, so they are all new now, they were a bit oily and looked old?

This is a response I got from Iboats. I explained all just like I have done here, but I think this guy is wrong as I had this issue long before I went trolling for Tuna. I am going again by th way Wednesday!!

You simply have an oil overload.

When this occurs again, immediately pull the plugs and take a hard look at them. I'd be willing to bet that they are seriously oiled to the point that they will NOT fire under a heavy load such as put on the motor at 4500 RPM.

There is also an amount of pure oil in the recirc system, patiently waiting for engine speed to increase sufficiently to get it airborne and burnt off and let the spark plugs burn clean enough for the engine to get up to full power again.

The factory oiling systems lighten the oil mixture at low engine speeds to prevent this oil overload and hesitant throttle after long periods of idling and/or trolling.

Possible cures are;

1. install a small trolling motor and NOT idle the big motor

2. install spark plugs one-step hotter than the factory specified plugs (also, if piston clearance is adequate, change from surface gap to standard electrode or extended electrode plug)

3. if carb'd, readjust idle mixture to leanest idle possible and still not have any hesitation on rapid acceleration in gear.

[bigshrimpin]

MJ - I thought you hadn't run the boat since we went out around wings neck. There were two lil' hicups on take off, but it never hesitated or lost power during the 2 hour run (after we replaced the stator) . . . unless you dropped some roofies in my soda :) and missed something. I anxiously waiting for tomorrow update. Hope all goes well . . . if the Tuna are around . . . I going out this weekend.

Those plugs you showed me today were dripping two stroke motor oil :)

[macojoe]

BS you smoking anything??
I just told you I caught a Tuna last wed, and that I went for a ride in the boat Sunday, so how could the last time I took the boat out be in July with you??

[chumbucket]

He needs to open the door to the shop when he's test running those motors. Breathing too many fumes.

[THEFERMANATOR]

He needs to open the door to the shop when he's test running those motors. Breathing too many fumes.

Hey now, that 2 stroke smoke be good stuff.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t271/THEFERMANATOR/2strokehorny.jpg

[randlemanboater]

I would think that the "over oilling" would cause problems at idle/slow speeds as well......but I don't know much about them old 2 strokes.

[bigshrimpin]

I think this guy is wrong as I had this issue "long before I went trolling for Tuna."

MJ????

Hey . . . did you get out today? I'm dying to know.

[macojoe]

I am leaving here at 4am, I can't wait!! A guy I know went today and they caught another 150 ponder out there today!

Also yesterday on the Chatam side they caught a 1200 ponder!!!! They say the big ones have been close and that there is at least five 700 ponders this past week!

[macojoe]

Well the bad news first, 6 footers out there wind and waves in are face, after 2 miles turned around and came back in, NO Tuna :cen:

Good news, came in and went out in a different area, drove boat about 15 miles at about 5000 rpm doing any were from 25 to 29 knots Opened it up and topped out at 33 knots, Motor never missed a beat!! Could have trimmed it a bit more and got another mile an hour??

So after putting new plugs, new ck vaule in the fuel pump, and redirecting the supply hoses to the carbs, it works! Not sure what fixed it??

Redistricting the fuel hose was like this, it had one supply hose from the pump, across the motor to the other side and that one hose went to top carb, then from there each carb feed off the one above.
Now there is a 3 way on the pump and a hose going to each carb direct.

So was it the hoses?? Ck Vale? plugs? or a combination of?

But it works!! Thanks all and to BS for stopping by to help me out!

[phatdaddy]

not sure what fixed it, but welcome back to the dark side..

[bigshrimpin]

I am 99% sure I know what was wrong, but as soon as I open my big mouth . . . I'll probably jinx the motor. Basically I believe that it wasn't getting enough fuel at high rpm.

The hose from the merc male plug to the fuel pump is 1/4" ID and it was kinked a bit by a tie wrap. I put that tie wrap on to keep the hose away from the linkage (when it was near full advance). Anyways . . . to make a long story short . . . I had MJ working the throttle while I was watching the linkage near the hose. 1 out of every 5 times the throttle was advanced to near WOT the linkage bumped the hose and kinked it (cutting off the fuel). I rerouted the fuel lines and fittings to the carbs with a old school three way fuel pump nipple. I pulled apart the fuel pump just to look for any shaving on the filter screen and replaced one of the check valves that wasn't very snappy. The motor seems to have like the changes, so I'm happy that MJ's happy and the boat is running well.

I'm pretty sure that's this will one of the final chapters in the MJ motor fiasco series. Well change the poppet valve and rebuild the carbs in the spring . . . just to be safe :)

[randlemanboater]

Glad the Merc ran good for you MJ.

33 knots....thats like 38 mph, not too shabby!

[bigshrimpin]

MJ - I plugged the numbers into the prop calc and your right on the money 5600 - 5800 rpms to get that speed with 2:1 ratio, 15p prop and 12 -15% slip. All you need now is a good tach or an adjustment on that one.

[macojoe]

I need a new one. Also have to get the temp gauge working and a few other small things. We will get there!!

Thanks

[THEFERMANATOR]

MJ - I plugged the numbers into the prop calc and your right on the money 5600 - 5800 rpms to get that speed with 2:1 ratio, 15p prop and 12 -15% slip. All you need now is a good tach or an adjustment on that one.

Did you put a 2:1 on it BS? I thought all of the 2.4L's and 2.5L's were the 1.87:1's?

[bigshrimpin]

yeah - I put the 2:1 on that motor (from a 1991 2.0L 150) so MJ's sea tub could get on a plain better.

[THEFERMANATOR]

yeah - I put the 2:1 on that motor (from a 1991 2.0L 150) so MJ's sea tub could get on a plain better.

GOTCHA! LEt him turn a larger diameter wheel to help heave the hoe.

[randlemanboater]

Dang, you cant beat a CUSTOM made Merc that comes with its own mechanic.

[phatdaddy]

Big Shrimpin has a very good extended warranty policy. well worth it...

[THEFERMANATOR]

Big Shrimpin has a very good extended warranty policy. well worth it...


Sounds like a lifetime policy to me.

[Skools Out]

It is a lifetime if he is dealing with MJ lol

[macojoe]

LMFAO!! Your all right! We are hooked for life now, He might as well move in!

[chumbucket]

You guys don't know how right you are! :zip:

[macojoe]

Hey I called you for the third time today and you didn't answer??:cen:

[bigshrimpin]

GOTCHA! LEt him turn a larger diameter wheel to help heave the hoe.

MJ found a brand new 15.25" 15P blackmax prop for $50.

[chumbucket]

Hey I called you for the third time today and you didn't answer??:cen:
Didn't want to listen to you ramble on. I fell asleep on your last call. :sleep::nut:

[bigshrimpin]

There's spotty service in the John Hancock building. I'm not sure my employer would be too excited if I were taking calls from the wind-talker on their dime. I'll call you as soon as I set foot outside the building.

[phatdaddy]

Hey I called you for the third time today and you didn't answer??:cen:


thank goodness for caller ID

[macojoe]

BS still thinking I am talking to him!! :clap:

[phatdaddy]

MJ its your heavy use of an indefinite pronoun....

[bigshrimpin]

I see how it is now . . . You only call me when you need something :)

I feel so used :P

[macojoe]

Hahaha

I no see you calling me!! And every time I call its I will call you back and you disappear!!

I am glad CB doesn't treat me like that!

[macojoe]

Just called, "Hi this is Tim" Hmm.... no answer here either :bat:

[Steplift 72']

MJ - I think it's bogging cause it's not getting the fuel it needs at higher RPM (above 4500). Whether it's the fuel pump, carbs, or some restriction b/w the tank or motor . . . We'll have plenty of time to go through the entire system this winter and replace/rebuild everything. Those motors run HOT at lower speeds, you can add a H20 pressure gauge and a temp gauge to ease you mind. I run snipped tstats during the warm months, so the motor runs colder and pees right away . . . but you can flood the motor when starting (as I showed you almost everytime we went out) Hopefully Spares or Ferm will come along and chime in here.

I vote for the restriction between tank and carb....along with a different winter gasoline formulation. The anti-siphon valve takes a couple ounces of pressure to open the spring.....The butane added in the fall up north, and the south in November causes vapor lock if you happen to have a anti-siphon valve with a slightly stiff spring. I've been there and got the T-shirt....boat would bog down past 4000 rpm and stall if you didn't quickly pull the throttle back. Figuring that one out wasn't cheap or quick.

[macojoe]

Thanks but all these issues have been worked out and it runs like new! Now if i can just get all the ice to melt i be fine!!

[Steplift 72']

Thanks but all these issues have been worked out and it runs like new! Now if i can just get all the ice to melt i be fine!!

The only ice we worry about around here is in the ice chest. I've seen hail piled up deeper than I've ever seen snow.